Degree for developing new weapons? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Zeraph · 03-20-2009, 12:28 PM

Just curious, I've always enjoyed tinkering, especially with weapons. Is there a specific degree for that? Like to go work for the government or some big organization to do R&D on new weapons or armor? Material Engineering maybe? I've also heard of physicists working for those companies though. So I dunno what they're looking for. Anyone else interested in this?

telekinetic · 03-20-2009, 12:31 PM

Mechanical engineers, manufacturing engineers, industrial designers, chemical engineers.... ________- engineer, and they're probably involved. I worked for Talley Defense system making shoulder launched anti-tank weapons, and all the engineers there had Mechanical degrees, except the propulsion engineer, who I think had Chemical.

Zeraph · 03-20-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

Mechanical engineers, manufacturing engineers, industrial designers, chemical engineers.... ________- engineer, and they're probably involved. I worked for Talley Defense system making shoulder launched anti-tank weapons, and all the engineers there had Mechanical degrees, except the propulsion engineer, who I think had Chemical.

Mechanical? I thought they had to specialize in like automotive, or aerospace? So mechanical is most needed, or just the most common? Also, were you guys working with your hands at all? Or was it all on computers?

I'm looking for something that has elements of both research and development. Actual hands on stuff, as opposed to designing a metal mold or experiment on a computer. Know what I mean?

Thanks.

PS was your job fun? What's your degree in?

dippin · 03-20-2009, 01:00 PM

the mechanical in mechanical engineering is from the principle of mechanics in physics, and not "mechanic" as in the guy that fixes cars and planes. As such, mechanical engineers will deal with anything that has moving parts, friction, etc.

I would just be careful regarding expectations. In weapons, like in all industries nowadays, ultra specialization is the norm. To be involved in overall development, you would probably have to work in the smaller gun manufacturers that do more customized stuff which is not really cutting edge. To be at a place that actually does significant research, you would be at one of the bigger places, and would likely specialize in a particular area of research.

It is incredibly rare, specially at the entry level, for someone to be involved in the overall development of a gun, from research through product development.

I have a friend with a PhD who works at a place that does some of the chips for modern weapons. Even though he is working with the chips themselves, he is so far removed from the big picture of the research that he doesnt even know exactly what the chips are used for.

Zeraph · 03-20-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippin

the mechanical in mechanical engineering is from the principle of mechanics in physics, and not "mechanic" as in the guy that fixes cars and planes. As such, mechanical engineers will deal with anything that has moving parts, friction, etc.

I would just be careful regarding expectations. In weapons, like in all industries nowadays, ultra specialization is the norm. To be involved in overall development, you would probably have to work in the smaller gun manufacturers that do more customized stuff which is not really cutting edge. To be at a place that actually does significant research, you would be at one of the bigger places, and would likely specialize in a particular area of research.

It is incredibly rare, specially at the entry level, for someone to be involved in the overall development of a gun, from research through product development.

I have a friend with a PhD who works at a place that does some of the chips for modern weapons. Even though he is working with the chips themselves, he is so far removed from the big picture of the research that he doesnt even know exactly what the chips are used for.

Good points, but I'm still curious...

filtherton · 03-20-2009, 01:18 PM

M.E. all the way. It's the most general form of engineering. Get an entry level job and they'll teach you the rest.

blade02 · 03-20-2009, 01:44 PM

I graduated with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. As the others have pointed out, it is a very broad field. I work in the defense industry. My town is mostly missiles and radars, so almost everything I've had experience with has 3 sides to the equation: mechanical, aerospace, and electrical. Those 3 tend to make up the main elements of the weapon itself. After that you have supporting elements such as systems engineering (almost all modern weapons are a "system" of some sort, and the US Army LOVES "systems of systems") manufacturing, quality control, etc.

I'd suggest going with a government position. Either in a test group, or a Project Executive Office (PEO).
A government test branch operates to ensure that the contractors are supplying quality weapon systems. A test branch will have you out on ranges, designing and setting up tests, then conducting them. You won't do any design of the weapon systems, but you'll get to see a lot of variety.

A PEO is in charge of overseeing the development and deployment of new weapon systesm, and the maintenance of existing weapon systems. A PEO works with the contractors to create design specs, set up tests, and tries to perform the impossible task of keeping projects on time and on budget. In a PEO you experiance a wide range of work, from going out to the test ranges to ensure the systems are being tested to the proper standards, working with the manufacturer to keep old systems fielded and operating, to working with the manufacturer to ensure that the next generation system will meet the needs of the military.

Willravel · 03-20-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

Mechanical? I thought they had to specialize in like automotive, or aerospace? So mechanical is most needed, or just the most common? Also, were you guys working with your hands at all? Or was it all on computers?

Aeronautical engineers work on projectiles like missiles and munitions and war machines like fighters, bombers, and UAVs.

snowy · 03-20-2009, 02:19 PM

A mechanical engineering degree, as suggested above, is probably your best bet. You're going to have to do a lot of physics and calculus, not to mention statics, dynamics, thermodynamics and beyond. I hope you like equations. I've had a number of friends go through the ME program here, and it takes a lot of work.

My SO recently attended a career fair at our university. A contractor for the Department of Defense was very, very interested in talking to him when they found out that he was a chemical engineering student; unfortunately he wasn't so interested in talking to them (they apparently do work on both sides of the biological/chemical warfare coin).

Willravel · 03-20-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowy

...unfortunately he wasn't so interested in talking to them (they apparently do work on both sides of the biological/chemical warfare coin).

Yikes.

I wish we had as many doctors as we have soldiers.

Zeraph · 03-21-2009, 09:43 AM

snowy- so you're saying they were implying they wanted him to work on offensive bio weapons? (not just the defense against em)

There's some international ban on that, no?

... was it bad that I just called attention to that?

telekinetic · 03-22-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

Mechanical? I thought they had to specialize in like automotive, or aerospace? So mechanical is most needed, or just the most common?

If it has moving parts, a mechanical engineer was involved.

Quote:

Also, were you guys working with your hands at all? Or was it all on computers?

I'm looking for something that has elements of both research and development. Actual hands on stuff, as opposed to designing a metal mold or experiment on a computer. Know what I mean?

It is an inefficient waste of time and resources to have engineers do any actual fabrication or testing...that's what technicians are for. An engineer's value is (when you distill it down completely) in making decisions...it doesn't make good financial sense to have your engineers getting paid X an hour to do something that could be done by someone paid X/4.

Now, this doesn't mean you won't get to supervise, depending on the size of the company. If you want to see if doohicky X works, you would sketch it up (or more likely describe it with scribbles on a whiteboard to one of your draftsmen), send it out for prototyping, get the prototype back, go "oooh shiny!", give it to testing department, say (if it were a structural doohicky) "here, break this doohicky, it needs to hold 3000lbs" and get a report back from them with your broken doohicky saying "yup, held 3000!" If it's a functional doohicky, you might get to design a test, but the likelihood of you doing the actual testing is low--there are people who do that at most companies.

Quote:

Thanks.

PS was your job fun? What's your degree in?

I'm a mechanical engineer. In fact, I just remembered a joke in our department (which shared a building with Civil engineers): "Mechanical Engineers make weapons, Civil Engineers make Targets"

All of this applies only actual large companies, however--You haven't mentioned the scope of the weapons systems you want to work on. Are we talking personal weapons for civilians? Pistols? Tasers (I keep sending them resumes, shhh don't tell my current boss)? Missiles? Tanks?

Two of the cooler small engineering companies that make weapons are Keltech and Magpul. You should look into those, if you would like more involvement in the overall project!

I actually interviewed with a small company that makes sniper rifles, but it was SOOO small it freaked me out due to lack of stability...it was basically a huge office with 15 people in it, designing prototypes in hopes of getting a big contract from someone.

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Aeronautical engineers work on projectiles like missiles and munitions and war machines like fighters, bombers, and UAVs.

Does it move? Mechanical engineer
Does it fly? Aeronautical engineer
Does it have a new material or a propellant? Chemical engineer
Does it have a battery? Electrical engineer
Does it get destroyed in an earthquake? Civil engineer (I kid I kid)

Anotherthing I just thought of, Zeraph, is if you really want to be big picture, try Industrial Design. Engineers don't usually get their grubby mitts on a project until the ID guys have come up with the overall concept and made some fancy sketches or some rapid prototyped parts. The reason for this? As a rule, engineers will make (very functional) ugly things with terrible ergonomics.

Zeraph · 03-23-2009, 02:16 PM

Thanks man, some good info there.

hunnychile · 03-23-2009, 02:24 PM

Why not use your talents for something that benefits mankind, like new energy systems or ways to recycle plastics, better cars or roads, safe & perfect tires, or even that miracle of life called Water?

IMO, anyone who wants to learn to make weapons is really, really sad and not someone I'd ever want to know or even be around.

Someone had to say it.

There are far too many ways to kill people already.

telekinetic · 03-23-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunnychile

IMO, anyone who wants to learn to make weapons is really, really sad and not someone I'd ever want to know or even be around.

Do you know what subforum you are in? Thanks for the heads up, though-I will write you off my list of people to get to know or ever be around!

I will say, however, this is a common attitude among people with an (in my opinion) extremely narrow worldview, and something you will have to deal with if you do decide to go into this industry.

I'm curious what you'd think of my friends who work at various armor companies (both vehicle armor and body armor). Do you want to get to know them, since they're saving lives, or dislike them, too, for being part of the war machine?

Coastey · 03-28-2009, 09:24 PM

Check out the Naval Postgraduate School degree programs on their website (nps.edu) and you'll get an idea of how engineering and physics backgrounds are used for weapons development.

karoshi59 · 03-29-2009, 03:01 PM

Zeraph, much depends on what type of weapons system you're interested in. I have several friends in "the Industry," all with different degrees. One is a high level physicist who designs nuclear warheads. He has a doctoral degree in Physics from MIT. Another worked with GM's Tank division in research on the Abrams tank. He, as many others have recommended, has an Mech Engineering degree from West Point. A third has an EE degree from Stanford and worked with ITT on the Gen 3 nightvision goggles.

But if you're talking about shoulder-born weapons, say for instance like the Stoner, or the Kalashnikov, or the Barrett, then a good place to start would be an advanced degree in Mechanical Engineering with some practical skills in machining. Just my two cents.

AquaFox · 04-12-2009, 01:36 PM

there are gun-smith schools out there for making guns... one of those might be of interest to you... you will likely need to learn traditional guns prior to making anything above and beyond.

http://www.pagunsmith.com/index.php

http://www.nragunsmithing.com/Default.html

03-20-2009, 12:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Degree for developing new weapons? Just curious, I've always enjoyed tinkering, especially with weapons. Is there a specific degree for that? Like to go work for the government or some big organization to do R&D on new weapons or armor? Material Engineering maybe? I've also heard of physicists working for those companies though. So I dunno what they're looking for. Anyone else interested in this?

03-20-2009, 12:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
telekinetic zomgomgomgomgomgomg Location: Fauxenix, Azerona	Mechanical engineers, manufacturing engineers, industrial designers, chemical engineers.... ________- engineer, and they're probably involved. I worked for Talley Defense system making shoulder launched anti-tank weapons, and all the engineers there had Mechanical degrees, except the propulsion engineer, who I think had Chemical. __________________ twisted no more

03-20-2009, 02:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	A mechanical engineering degree, as suggested above, is probably your best bet. You're going to have to do a lot of physics and calculus, not to mention statics, dynamics, thermodynamics and beyond. I hope you like equations. I've had a number of friends go through the ME program here, and it takes a lot of work. My SO recently attended a career fair at our university. A contractor for the Department of Defense was very, very interested in talking to him when they found out that he was a chemical engineering student; unfortunately he wasn't so interested in talking to them (they apparently do work on both sides of the biological/chemical warfare coin). __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

03-23-2009, 02:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	Why not use your talents for something that benefits mankind, like new energy systems or ways to recycle plastics, better cars or roads, safe & perfect tires, or even that miracle of life called Water? IMO, anyone who wants to learn to make weapons is really, really sad and not someone I'd ever want to know or even be around. Someone had to say it. There are far too many ways to kill people already. __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

03-29-2009, 03:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
karoshi59 Upright	Zeraph, much depends on what type of weapons system you're interested in. I have several friends in "the Industry," all with different degrees. One is a high level physicist who designs nuclear warheads. He has a doctoral degree in Physics from MIT. Another worked with GM's Tank division in research on the Abrams tank. He, as many others have recommended, has an Mech Engineering degree from West Point. A third has an EE degree from Stanford and worked with ITT on the Gen 3 nightvision goggles. But if you're talking about shoulder-born weapons, say for instance like the Stoner, or the Kalashnikov, or the Barrett, then a good place to start would be an advanced degree in Mechanical Engineering with some practical skills in machining. Just my two cents. __________________ "I called information. I asked where my other sock was. They said it was behind the sofa." -Steven Wright

03-20-2009, 01:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	the mechanical in mechanical engineering is from the principle of mechanics in physics, and not "mechanic" as in the guy that fixes cars and planes. As such, mechanical engineers will deal with anything that has moving parts, friction, etc. I would just be careful regarding expectations. In weapons, like in all industries nowadays, ultra specialization is the norm. To be involved in overall development, you would probably have to work in the smaller gun manufacturers that do more customized stuff which is not really cutting edge. To be at a place that actually does significant research, you would be at one of the bigger places, and would likely specialize in a particular area of research. It is incredibly rare, specially at the entry level, for someone to be involved in the overall development of a gun, from research through product development. I have a friend with a PhD who works at a place that does some of the chips for modern weapons. Even though he is working with the chips themselves, he is so far removed from the big picture of the research that he doesnt even know exactly what the chips are used for.

03-20-2009, 01:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	M.E. all the way. It's the most general form of engineering. Get an entry level job and they'll teach you the rest.

03-20-2009, 01:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	I graduated with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. As the others have pointed out, it is a very broad field. I work in the defense industry. My town is mostly missiles and radars, so almost everything I've had experience with has 3 sides to the equation: mechanical, aerospace, and electrical. Those 3 tend to make up the main elements of the weapon itself. After that you have supporting elements such as systems engineering (almost all modern weapons are a "system" of some sort, and the US Army LOVES "systems of systems") manufacturing, quality control, etc. I'd suggest going with a government position. Either in a test group, or a Project Executive Office (PEO). A government test branch operates to ensure that the contractors are supplying quality weapon systems. A test branch will have you out on ranges, designing and setting up tests, then conducting them. You won't do any design of the weapon systems, but you'll get to see a lot of variety. A PEO is in charge of overseeing the development and deployment of new weapon systesm, and the maintenance of existing weapon systems. A PEO works with the contractors to create design specs, set up tests, and tries to perform the impossible task of keeping projects on time and on budget. In a PEO you experiance a wide range of work, from going out to the test ranges to ensure the systems are being tested to the proper standards, working with the manufacturer to keep old systems fielded and operating, to working with the manufacturer to ensure that the next generation system will meet the needs of the military.

03-21-2009, 09:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	snowy- so you're saying they were implying they wanted him to work on offensive bio weapons? (not just the defense against em) There's some international ban on that, no? ... was it bad that I just called attention to that?

03-23-2009, 02:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Thanks man, some good info there.

03-28-2009, 09:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
Coastey Upright Location: California	Check out the Naval Postgraduate School degree programs on their website (nps.edu) and you'll get an idea of how engineering and physics backgrounds are used for weapons development.

04-12-2009, 01:36 PM	#18 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	there are gun-smith schools out there for making guns... one of those might be of interest to you... you will likely need to learn traditional guns prior to making anything above and beyond. http://www.pagunsmith.com/index.php http://www.nragunsmithing.com/Default.html __________________ ...AquaFox...