Pistol-Caliber Carbines
 

Pistol-caliber carbines occupy a special niche between handgun and rifle, they are akin to a submachine gun without an auto or burst option.

Commonly, they're semi-auto and chambered in 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. Think Marlin Camp Carbine, Kel-Tec Sub-2000, and Beretta CX-4.

Short lever-action rifles chambered in .357 Mag /.38 Spec and .44 Mag / .44 Spec also fit into this category. The Winchester 94 Ranger and Marlin 1894CS are examples.

...

They're useful because they're often handier (shorter and lighter) than full-house long guns (M4s with 15 pieces of flair need not apply), use the same ammunition (and sometimes magazines) as your sidearm, and provide a short range heavy projectile.

...

Let's talk about design and tactical applications.

Do you like or dislike them?

Comments on particular models?

It seems to me that that niche is growing all the time. Military and civilian alike have need for use against unarmored, short ranged targets. Small arms conflicts are probably the most common type of combat today, and since (guessing) like 85% of those conflicts happen in an urban environment, it makes it all the more useful. Not to mention the cost of ammo, pistol is generally a lot cheaper, and more common than rifle ammo. Especially as our economy (and most of the rest of the world's along with it) gets worse, the cost will be all the more important.

NATO and Warsaw Pact rifle caliber ammo is the cheapest stuff on the planet. Consider production volume.

A lot of units have started to shy away from submachine guns because they were not getting the job done as reliably as necessary.

Even the lowly 5.56 is a far superior man stopper than a 9mm round out of a sub gun.

MP-5's and their kin are great where concealment is a priority or spaces are too small for an M-4.

Well as you know my knowledge if fairly limited of firearms. I wouldn't be surprised if that changes in the future though.

I loved my Winchester Model 94, i.e. a .30-30 lever action rifle. It was like an adult version of the Red Rider BB gun that I shot as a kid. However, I sold my Model 94, over 10 years ago, which I very much regret now, because Winchester no longer manufactures Model 94's.

Never used one socially, but I have shot an RRA in 9mm, 45 ACP and an HK USC. I think they have their place in short range confrontations, but (and this is just imho), the 5.56 might be more versatile.

Nice guns though.

If I'm gonna deal with the length, weight, and storage issues of a rifle, I want a rifle. A pistol-calibre carbine only gives you the worst of both worlds; it's either an underpowered rifle or an enormous pistol, with none of the advantages of either. Leave the pistol cartridges in pistols. I know a couple of folks who use .357/.44 leverguns for close-range deer hunting, but that's the only such weapon that has any attraction for me at all.

When I was a teenager, my great uncle gave me an M-1 carbine, just the right size for my five foot tall one hundred pound self.:) Used a special .30 round, not the .30-06 that the M-1 used. Accurate, and not much recoil, with a 15-round clip. You could get a 30-round clip, but I don't have one. I still have the carbine, and use it about once a year, hunting coyotes or feral dogs.

Lindy
(on the road in Hagerstown, MD)

I have a Plainfield PP30 aka "Enforcer." It's basically a M1 Carbine chopped into pistol format. Great little piece. Kicks like a 9mm and totes a 30 round GI mag. Doesn't serve too bad as a home defense piece as it can be fired like a normal handgun or you can hold onto the forearm and use it like a carbine sans stock. It's short, light, easy to operate, and uses a decent short-range round.

...

I find the folds-in-half Keltec Sub2000 (9mm Glock or Beretta mag model) to be a useful alternative to a handgun for situations where I don't have to conceal it on my person or have it as a more substantial secondary piece for situations where a normal carbine (M4) wouldn't make a lot of sense. The thing is an oversize handgun and can be accurately (and rapidly) fired with just one hand and the stock shouldered. For me, the Keltec Sub2000 is primarily used as a car gun (breaks in half and goes under the seat... mag loaded and 100% safe) or a kept behind the door when I stay in hotels. I'll get at why:

I think the primary advantage of a pistol-caliber carbine is that it has all the limitations of a handgun caliber weapon (less range and less wall-piercing bystander-slaying power with a heavy projectile) but it has the advantages of a rifle-shaped weapon (shoulder stock for support, better sights - both improve accuracy). What you get is a weak rifle, something that (I feel) has a place in the civilian world as a self-defense piece or perhaps something law enforcement would be interested in despite their move to M4s.

Sometimes less is more (caliber) and more is more (shoulder stock). Limitations aren't always a bad thing.

Does that make sense to anybody?

makes sense to me.

ive been thinking for a while about buying a lever action chambered for pistol ammunition.

something cheaper to fire than my hand me down 30-30, but just as much fun.

the only problem im having (as always) is choosing what round i would like the damn thing to be chambered in.

i have no neighbors, i have no problem with putting a few holes in my wall.

I have my mom's old Ruger .44 carbine that she would take deer hunting in West Virginia. I don't know if she ever bagged a deer, but she would go out with my stepfather and another couple.

I like my high point carbine- cheap, but reliable and durable- really so much better than I expected- and I have my m-1 carbine, its a plainfield, 100% usgi compatible and built of about half G.I surplus parts as is.... so I could be called a fan of the pistol caliber carbine family.....

I think that while there are good points to be made about it being more stable a platform than a pistol and having a longer sight radius, the pistol caliber carbine fills roles that are just as adequately filled by a pistol or a rifle, or, better yet, a bullpup rifle.

In my mind, some of the restrictions we have in the US are big deterring factors to pistol caliber rifles. The thing they should really have going for them is a short overall length, and a concealable folded length. Due to the 16" barrel limit and 26" overall length limit on rifles in the US, I can't really see them having either unless in bullpup configuration. Mass produced pistol rounds are designed to attain their maximum energy in 4-6" of barrel, and so gain nothing out of the additional length of a rifle barrel, unless custom loaded.

There are, still, a couple of exceptions which would make good weapons platforms. A buddy of mine recently put together a 9mm AR upper, as he was able to go in on a huge stack of ammo with a friend. It was loaded hot enough that it would tear most handguns up pretty quickly, but the AR eats it like I eat waffles.

.357 SIG is another caliber I could see making a successful light rifle round, for pretty much the same reason. There's a lot of case room to be jammin' some slower burning powder into.

Finally, the PS90 by FN is something of an increased versatility rifle. The 5.7mm round was designed to be fired from this platform, so it works pretty well in it. Performs as a rifle should, with a very small overall length and weight. I wouldn't bother using the Five-seveN pistol with it, however, as it's pretty much the reverse of the above, a pistol trying to fire a round loaded for a rifle, and gaining the benefits of neither.

The bottom line is that a medium weight weapon is a great idea, but needs to have ammo loaded specifically for it in order to function in a way markedly different from a pistol (which is concealable) or a rifle (which has greater range and capacity for doing damage).

I'm personally still waiting for Kel-Tec to get their RFB on the shelves. 7.62 NATO, 18" barrel, 26" overall length... a semi-compact weapon in full-size caliber is right up my alley.

-m00t

*as a side note, if it were legal in the US, whenever not carrying my pistol, I would totally have a stock mounted on it. Steyr makes a pretty cool removable polymer piece for the m9 series. Alas, it is not meant to be.

Don't be surprised once my tax return comes in if you get a call from my wife when she wants to know wtf that foldy thing is and why our checking account is down $325, cuz I'm totally blaming you :lol:

Make sure you get the stock extension cap and tube cover. The thing is annoying to fire otherwise.