SSJTWIZTA

okay, i know most say a shotgun in best for home defense. The thing is i have every shot gun ranging from a 4-10 to a 3 and a half inch magnum. I currently only own 1 pistol, its a 1970-something smith and weston .22 semi auto.

alot of people have different variants on the subject. the thing is, that im a pretty small guy. the last time i checked im 5'11 and 140 lbs.

i was thinknig about buying a Five-Seven...until i seen the price tag.

what would anyone recommend thats a 1 shot stop.

i know that a hit from a .22 is better than a miss from a .45, but im not worried about a miss. i have plenty of time to practice, as i do with my .22. the only problem i have with my .22 is the knock down power. ive considered everything for 38 specials to 45 acps, and i still cant seem to make up my mind.

any help would be awesome.

please remember im a small guy and i wouldnt want anything to large, but a barrel long enough for me to sustain accuracy over a nice distance would be great, as i also like to shoot for practical purposes.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Willravel

Is the S&W 686 4", .357 Magnum too big?

140 lbs? Get a sammich.

Martian

I like that the first two replies are from pacifists.

The Five-Seven (or Five-seveN, if you prefer) looks impressive on paper but in real life it kind of sucks.

I'd suggest something 9mm or .40 S&W. Realistically, you're unlikely to face any threats within your own home that either of those won't be able to put down, and it's less of a bang than some of the bigger guns.

I'll leave recommendations of specific models to those who are better versed in such things, but I will point out that for reliability purposes a revolver beats a semi-auto every time.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

smoore

I've been using .45ACP since dinosaurs roamed the earth. I hear the .40S&W has just as much or more stopping power in a smaller overall shell. I don't trust 9mm, there's a reason cops put a whole magazine into a guy and I think that reason is they don't trust 9mm either.

Glock makes good weapons. They are military grade. I never have liked them but there's that whole dinosaurs thing.

__________________
smoore

telekinetic

My 90lbs girlfriend could keep a full clip of .40 in the black from 21 feet, so you should have no problems with it.

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twisted no more

Bear Cub

If you can handle shotguns no problem, you can handle the kick from a .45 ACP. Hell, my girlfriend is 5'5", 120# and she can handle the .45.

__________________
Living in the United Socialist States of America.

samcol

Will is giving home protection advice on firearms choice, and a great reccomendation at that? Oh lawd....

The larger frame .357's aren't bad at all, it's the snub nose ones that really suck to shoot imo.

__________________
It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

SSJTWIZTA

get a sammich, haha. i could out eat you, buddy

9mm is out. ive never really liked 9's.

.357 seems like a nice choice...if i want to blow the poor fellows arm off. ow well, if they're in my house with a sack full of my belongings they probably deserve it.

i need to get my hands on a .40 and see how i like 'em. so far thats what im leaning towards. hell, i expected them to kick like a mule, but from what i hear so far i should be fine.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Willravel

I have no doubt of that (I've got fat genes!!!).
I had a 9mm go through my calf. It hurt like a bitch, but I'm VERY glad it wasn't a bigger caliber.
Generally, by my understanding, one is taught to "shoot to kill". I'd suggest, if they're just stealing your crap, you point it at them. If you're in danger, then you pull the trigger.

Just my opinion.

SSJTWIZTA

and a great opinion it is.

im not just going to blast someone for the hell of it.

well, like i said before, its time to find someone with a .40 that will let me fire it.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

telekinetic

If you are getting it soley for home defense, (taking concealability out of the question) and are worried about kick, get a full sized steel frame pistol. Poly frame guns kick more...the heavier the gun, the less of the shock you'll feel. The exception to that is the 22C and 23C by glock (full sized and mid-size .40)...they have ports on the top of the front of the barrel to minimize kick up.

__________________
twisted no more

SSJTWIZTA

yup, im not carrying this anywhere.

thanks for your 2 cents twisted. something else i need to look into

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

smoore

There is something to be said about a lower power cartridge than a magnum, collateral damage.

Hell, you could use a .44 magnum but what happens when you miss? That thing is going somewhere. Consider that in home defense you're typically dealing with an unarmored assailant. You don't want rounds going willy-nilly around your neighborhood. .45 and .40 are heavy and slow, the energy is ablated quickly when the bullet encounters something... anything.

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smoore

MSD

Anything can drop someone, but I'd stay with the .38 to .45 range. Don't go below that because if you defend yourself and are brought to trial, it's a lot easier to explain to a jury of laymen that you needed a second shot of .45 than it is to explain that he really didn't fall down until he had consumed a quarter of his body weight 25ACP.


Also,
Anything that is powerful enough to stop an attacker is powerful enough to penetrate common building materials and still have lethal amounts of kinetic energy. Shot placement is what will protect your neighbors, not the bullet you use.

SSJTWIZTA

i live in bumfuck Ga, there is no neighborhood.

and around here, odds are they will be armed. you trust me on that one. this place is fucken' assed backwards when it comes to certain things.

the best way i can describe this place is...have you ever seen squidbillys?

MSD, neat stuff. It looks like a .40 IS my best bet so far.

thanks so far, everyone.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Martian

MSD, why did you quote me three times in a row?

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

smoore

unarmored -- no vest

MSD... interesting, I assume that's ballistics gel? Where can I read the accompanying article?

__________________
smoore

Willravel

Because you're important.

Plan9

You didn't just say that. You're WillRavel for chrissakes.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Martian

That sounds downright uncomfortable for your lady friend.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Plan9

She takes it like a champ.

Since I mention it in every gun thread:

www.TheBoxOfTruth.com

Not the same test, but everybody that does gun stuff at TFP should read this site.

============================================

...nice ports that may deafen / blind you during hours-of-darkness home defense situations (mileage may vary based on ammo, my experience with Glock **Cs has been horrible).

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

smoore

That seems to be a banner farm now.

__________________
smoore

Willravel

I also give religious advice. And capitalist advice. And menstrual advice.

The nice thing about being the author of my own moral code is I have no issues with hypocrisy when it comes to advice.

BTW, the Raven is so small and stubby it looks like it should be covered in fur and be fighting the Empire in Return of the Jedi.

telekinetic

The URL doesn't have a V in it. it's http://www.theboxotruth.com/

And cromps, you could be right...I've only shot the C's in range environment to evaluate kick, never anything dark or tactical.

edit for clarification/full disclosure. I'm not going to be getting the compensated option when I buy my Glock. I weigh 100lbs more than SSJ, however. Even at 'fighting weight' if I ever get back down to it, I'll still have 60 lbs and 2 inches on him.

__________________
twisted no more

MSD

Because I'm a reformed 5.7 fanboy and what you said is valid enough to be repeated. I originally had it quoted 7 times, but I thought that would be a bit obnoxious.
As long as you hit soft tissue, I'll agree.
My point exactly.

Slims

Any 9mm, .40 cal, or .45, loaded with quality ammunition will meet your needs.

From what you have put forward I would suggest a 9mm. When loaded with quality ammunition it performs nearly as well as .40 cal or .45, plus it is easier to shoot and cheaper to shoot, both make for better, more frequent practice time which may help you in a fight.

Plus, you are less likely to develop bad habits from shooting a 9mm than a larger caliber.

Oh, I wouldn't recommend .22 for home defense. it is surely better than nothing, but the round itself, being a rimfire is less reliable than any centerfire cartridge, and the terminal ballistics of a .22 are iffy...If you are shooting at someone it is presumably because they are a threat to you, which means they are likely either waving a knife, pointing a gun, or whatnot. The odds are good their hands (and forearms) will be in front of them and your bullet will need to punch through whatever is in front of them without being deflected or stopped.

Greg

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

smoore

Sweet, thanks. I just clicked.

__________________
smoore

Plan9

Nice save, Twisted. Damn kids and their 'O This and 'O That.

...

Point: Use what you have. Upgrade if you can. Master yourself before you depend on a tool to save your life.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

wraithhibn

Get one of these:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/38991

For $450 you get a good gun, and they have the .40 for the same price. Either way get Hollow Points for Self Defense.

__________________
If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

Plan9

S&W M&P. Plastic wondergun just like everything else on the market. Does a great job. Get one of those. Or a Glock or Springfield XD or a used Sig or a Ruger or a... hell, they're all the same. Find something comfy and within your price limitations.

...

Or maybe get a full size double action revolver because you can leave it loaded forever and if a round fails to fire (somehow) you just squeeze the trigger again and it rotates over to an entirely fresh chamber in the cylinder.


Oh, and they're pretty.

...

Guns are like women. Every man has his type.

Key to success is confidence in yourself, physical fitness, situational awareness, and plenty of practice with your gun at your place at odd hours.

Stating the obvious: Self defense isn't buying something that goes bang. It is an entire frame of mind.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

SSJTWIZTA

holy hell, i have some major thinking to do. i appreciate everyones advice.

the thing about the specialty ammo is that i dont always want to have to have a clip full of Black Tallon or Hydroshock ammunition lying next or in my fire arm, id rather just have something i know i can feel comfortable with.

one more thing...i have no experience with a revolver, never even fired one. besides the whole bad ammo or no jam situation, what would be the advantage.

and p.s.
I think ill pass on a .357, thanks

Edit: i KNOW this has been asked alot, but i was concerned about my small size. thanks for picking up on that.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

moot1337

The thing is, if you're getting a handgun for self defense in a place where a shotgun or rifle would be available, you're already putting yourself at a disadvantage. With low velocity weapons like pistols/shotguns, the temporary and permanent cavities are scantly larger than the expanded diameter of the projectile, which means that it takes a direct hit to the vitals or CNS of the target for neutralization. Shotguns solve the problem with multiple projectiles, but pistols are a whole different animal, with shot placement being the all-important factor. That said, penetration is the next most important, followed closely by expansion - being able to reach the vitals (12-18" of penetration in flesh) and gaining a larger chance of hitting them with a grazing shot.

If you plan on getting a handgun and not loading it up with a specific self-defense ammunition, there really isn't any point - you'd be much better served by any of your shotguns. When your life's on the line, why bother using anything but what's the most likely to neutralize the threat quickly and efficiently? SD ammunition is tailored to be the best stuff to use in a SD situation, even using low-flash powders to minimize the blinding of the muzzle flash in the darkness. This is not to mention that there have been a world of advances in jacketed hollowpoint bullet designs in the last 10-20 years, lessening the performance disparity between 9mm and 40/45/357. Check it out.

In summary, get something you can enjoy and afford practicing with. Nothing matters more than where you put those shots under pressure, and the ability to operate your weapon under the same. If you get an auto, practice clearing jams and malfunctions. Practice a ton with cheap FMJ ammo, then put enough SD ammo through your gun to ensure reliability. And don't bother loading up with anything other than SD ammo when your life may depend upon it.

Best,
m00t

__________________
And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be
banana-shaped.
This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again
how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
Oh, certainly, sir.

Plan9

Once again, m00t is a gun guru. Listen to the man.

Way of the world, bro. The trade off of ammunition. Car analogy: You can't expect "Ford" ammo to perform like "Mercedes" ammo... you use the Ford ammo during the week (training, popping cans) and keep the Mercedes ammo for "oh shit meth addicts in my house." Unless you're filthy rich and can afford high quality ammo all the time or you're willing to risk the safety of yourself and others to less-than-best ammunition.

You said this is a home defense piece, right? Take it to the range and shoot standard ammo... then bring it home, clean it, and load up the good stuff for keeping it in that bedside drawer. Simple enough, no?

A: They're easy to use. They have 3 moving parts you need to concern yourself with: the hammer, the trigger, and the cylinder release.
B: They're reliable. No magazines, rotating chamber means you can simply squeeze your way out of a failed cartridge.
C: They're safe. Open the cylinder and it magically becomes a paperweight. You can see into the gun from the side (between the back of the cylinder and the strike plate to see if it's loaded).
D: You can hit people with them and fire them inside bags. Hitting somebody with a revolver is much more effect than trying to pistolwhip somebody with a plastic Glock. You can also fire a revolver inside bags in emergency situations. They don't have a slide and can't jam due to lack of fore-aft room.

Don't be a wuss. Try it. You'll like it. It's rather comforting.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

smoore

Ditto on SSJTWIZTA's revolver comments. Revolvers are the simplest form of repeating firearm. Ultra reliable with very few moving parts.

Plus, with a .357mag you can go plinking with .38 special rounds... much cheaper. Sounds like it's time to head to a rental range.

__________________
smoore

The_Dunedan

Also, if you choose an automatic, test it with your intended carry ammo. This can be expensive, but some semi-auto pistols are finicky about hollowpoints. Find one that works EVERY SINGLE TIME. This is your life we're talking about here, don't take chances on an ammo issue when you need 102% reliability.

SSJTWIZTA

im starting to like this revolver thing. 6 shots should be plenty.

i guess it is in my best interest to get specialty ammo, i had no idea really. i thought as long as i got a good hit, like lets say in the hips or chest i should be fine.

this whole .357 can take a .38 special round really appeals to me. i heard this before, but it was from a "gangster" type of guy, so i regarded it as bullshit.

i dont know why i dont just get a shorter barrel for one of my shot guns like cromp suggested. i guess i just want something small that i can keep in a drawer or next to me. maybe even a side arm in case one of these crazy Ga hillbilly robbers decides to shoot back.

law enforcement isnt really up to par around here, so i just want to make sure i have all my bases covered. Shed out 300 bucks to the sheriff and you could probably get away with murder.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

The_Dunedan

A .38 or .357 loaded with a nasty-ass hollowpoint like a Golden Saber or something similar will solve -most- self-defense related problems. An automatic gives you more capacity, and a longarm gives you greater range and MUCH greater power, but a 6-shooter will still get you through most touchy spots.

Put it this way, if 6 rounds of .357 pushing 124-grain JHPs of some suitable flavour won't solve your problem, you've got SERIOUS problems and it's probably time to reach for a 12-bore or .308.

SSJTWIZTA

haha no my problems arent that great. and i already have a "12 bore" and a .308 hunting rifle

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

The_Dunedan

Cool, you're well on your way.

Now you just need a .308 battle rifle, and a 5.56mm or 5.45mm assault carbine, and at least one really zippy .30 for long-range work, and....;-)

longbough

For "one stop shot" I'd go with nothing less than .40, .45 or .357.
A .38 or 9mm barely cuts it - I say this based on my experience as a physician who treats a unique population that happens to have a lot of gunshot wounds. If you have to go with .38 or 9mm then I'd use a JHP P+ defense round like Hydra-Shok or Cor-bon. And forget about .380, .32, .22 etc.

If you don't realistically plan to practice much I'd go with the revolver option because of its mechanical simplicity. That being said - nothing wrong with an autoloader provided that you train to know your weapon well.

Personally I have a Glock 21SF .45 (13 round capacity) with a surefire light (very helpful to have a light and gun in one package) and a lasermax internal guiderod laser. I wasn't a fan of lasers at all for a carry gun - but in a home you're more likely to find yourself in an "atypical" shooting situation so it's nice to have that option. The lasermax adds no extra bulk or weight.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi