Knives and Sharpening Stones - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Suave · 03-26-2008, 11:36 PM

debaser, I don't think throwing firearms into the argument will really help you, since IPSC, for example, is dominated by the 1911, a pistol design that is almost 100 years old.

Slims · 03-27-2008, 02:33 AM

The basic 1911 design is about a hundred years old. However, I guarantee there isn't a single person alive who could be competitive in an IPSC tournament with a traditional 1911.

The 1911 is a hundred year old design that has undergone 100 years of evolution and constant improvement. A good, modern 1911 will out perform what was available in the early 1900's hands down.

Suave · 03-27-2008, 12:56 PM

Yes, but it's still the same fundamental design. I'd be interested to know how many parts would be interchangeable between an old 1911A1 and a new one.

debaser · 03-27-2008, 05:59 PM

Just about all the parts are compatible, but that is not to say they are as good. The evolution has been in the manufacturing and materials. I mean the functional design of the knife hasn't changed for millenia, but you can argue that they are now much more efficient at what they are supposed to do (cut).

Suave · 03-27-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debaser

Just about all the parts are compatible, but that is not to say they are as good. The evolution has been in the manufacturing and materials. I mean the functional design of the knife hasn't changed for millenia, but you can argue that they are now much more efficient at what they are supposed to do (cut).

I totally agree. But if we apply this to the KABAR vs whatever the hell the other one was, then there's no reason the newly-made KABARs with the newer materials, wouldn't be competitive (based on the logic that old designs are not necessarily particularly flawed as shown by the 1911).

debaser · 03-27-2008, 07:33 PM

That's what I was saying, the 1095 steel used in KaBars is no where near as good as the S30V steel used in Strider and other high end knives. S30V is a modern alloy stainless, where 1095 is just simple steel that has been around for over a hundred years.
Add to that the incredible job Paul Bos does of heat treating their knives (they now use the same process in house on some of their knives) and you get a superior product to a mass produced blade using half century old techniques.

On the down side you pay a lot more for it as well...

Slims · 03-28-2008, 11:06 AM

Well, if you upgraded the steel of a K-bar, used a modern, stronger blade design, better handle materials/shape, etc. You would have a better knife, but by definition it wouldn't be a K-bar anymore.

The K-bar is a great knife, and for the price, it is hard to beat. It will certainly survive hard abuse, but if you are willing to spend the money there are better options nowadays.

debaser · 03-28-2008, 02:38 PM

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Suave · 03-29-2008, 12:21 AM

I wasn't arguing for the K-bar. I was arguing against the logic that old designs are inherently worse than new ones based on the criteria of age, or even than you necessarily get what you pay for (particularly using firearms as an example).

I am the first to admit I don't know jack shit about knives. I'm just arguing the basic premises here. lol

03-26-2008, 11:36 PM	#41 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	debaser, I don't think throwing firearms into the argument will really help you, since IPSC, for example, is dominated by the 1911, a pistol design that is almost 100 years old. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

03-27-2008, 02:33 AM	#42 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	The basic 1911 design is about a hundred years old. However, I guarantee there isn't a single person alive who could be competitive in an IPSC tournament with a traditional 1911. The 1911 is a hundred year old design that has undergone 100 years of evolution and constant improvement. A good, modern 1911 will out perform what was available in the early 1900's hands down. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

03-27-2008, 12:56 PM	#43 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Yes, but it's still the same fundamental design. I'd be interested to know how many parts would be interchangeable between an old 1911A1 and a new one. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

03-27-2008, 05:59 PM	#44 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	Just about all the parts are compatible, but that is not to say they are as good. The evolution has been in the manufacturing and materials. I mean the functional design of the knife hasn't changed for millenia, but you can argue that they are now much more efficient at what they are supposed to do (cut). __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

03-27-2008, 07:33 PM	#46 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	That's what I was saying, the 1095 steel used in KaBars is no where near as good as the S30V steel used in Strider and other high end knives. S30V is a modern alloy stainless, where 1095 is just simple steel that has been around for over a hundred years. Add to that the incredible job Paul Bos does of heat treating their knives (they now use the same process in house on some of their knives) and you get a superior product to a mass produced blade using half century old techniques. On the down side you pay a lot more for it as well... __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

03-28-2008, 11:06 AM	#47 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Well, if you upgraded the steel of a K-bar, used a modern, stronger blade design, better handle materials/shape, etc. You would have a better knife, but by definition it wouldn't be a K-bar anymore. The K-bar is a great knife, and for the price, it is hard to beat. It will certainly survive hard abuse, but if you are willing to spend the money there are better options nowadays. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

03-28-2008, 02:38 PM	#48 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	Couldn't have said it better myself. __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

03-29-2008, 12:21 AM	#49 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	I wasn't arguing for the K-bar. I was arguing against the logic that old designs are inherently worse than new ones based on the criteria of age, or even than you necessarily get what you pay for (particularly using firearms as an example). I am the first to admit I don't know jack shit about knives. I'm just arguing the basic premises here. lol __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato