NoSoup

Heya folks -

Earlier today I went shooting, and although I have done extensive trap and pistol shooting in the past, I have had nominal (read:no) experience with rifles.

I went with a friend who brough along his.... rifle. (30-6... accumark?) and as it turns out, I'm a bit of a crackshot. I guess all those FPS games payed off.

Although I've never fired a scoped rifle before (pretty much only .22 plinking) I helped him get his scope calibrated, and pretty soon it was dead on. I was consistantly hitting a bulleye from 100 yards with my grouping less than 1/4 of an inch a part, which is very good, from my understanding.

Not all that surprisingly, I'm now in the market for a rifle, but know very little about them. I'm looking for something relatively inexpensive, but can be flexible - but it needs to be accurate. It was quite the feeling to see how accurate it was, and I want my own

Additionally, I'm likely going to need a pretty decent scope, the one we used at 9x zoom on it, but I want something more powerful for longer shots.

For what it's worth, I don't hunt, just target practice....

Thanks for your help!

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Jaegyr

start off considering the caliber u want and the uses for it. jsut shooting i recommend light calibers but any real hunting application comes with alot of different variables. second off start thinking of brands and models for pure accuracy think savage,winchester,weatherby i do NOT recommend any of the newer cheaper remingtons out there. my preferred all around caliber is .270 win 130 gr its fun to shoot will take most american big game and is extremely accurate.

NoSoup

As far as caliber is concerned, I was leaning towards the .308, but of course, I'm open to suggestions

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Plan9

BOLT ACTION: Savage makes excellent budget bolt rifles that are extremely durable and reasonably accurate. The Savage accu-trigger is sweet, too. Calibers range from .223 to as big as you need. .30-06, .308, or .270 (as mentioned) will pretty much bag anything useful in the US.

I have a Savage Scout (10FCM). 18" bbl in .308. Handy little piece.

I've always been partial to Swift optics. Perhaps more so than optics... getting a good strong scope mount and rings is crucial to good accuracy.

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Jaegyr

hes right alot of fine guns/shooters are held back by subpar optics. 308 is also a fine fine gun well rounded and accurate as all hell in the hands of a master. and i cant say a bad thing about a savage.

TodMaschinen

Remington 700s make awesome target/sniper rifles, I have a 700 Sendero SF in .308, free-floated, fluted barrel with a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20x40mm. Highly accurate 500-1000 yard rifle, .300 ultra mag would be better if you want serious power at 1,000yds but .308 works. The Leupold is an expensive scope, $600-900 and higher, depending on what you want but absolutely worth every penny. If you want a rifle that you know you can shoot accurately at serious distance, even if you normally don't (like me...hehe) Remington makes some very fine rifles, and like mentioned before, there are so many good rifles that are undercut by poor optics, so spring for a good scope at least.

sjb

I'm going to have to agree with a couple of the other guys here... Savage is definitely my suggestion. I think they have the highest accuracy for the $$. I've got the 10FP-LE2A. I don't think it qualifies as inexpensive, but it's a hell of a rifle.
To get a good rifle/scope match, expect to spend as much on the optics as you do on the rifle.

Jaegyr

model 12 BVSS or FVSS my personal suggestion theres a couple choate stocked ones that are pretty finethe only gun i do not recommend is a remington. sorry todmaschinen, most of the remingtons i deal with anymore are pieces of crap compared to what it was 15 years ago. unless ur goin for one of the higher end ones. and also since we are on the subject of extreme accuracy are you willing to reload?

Bear Cub

Another vote for something Remington 700 based.

longbough

Make that one more.
solid rifle

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Fire

I admit to having a huge soft spot for the .303 SMLE rifle- have handled a few and it is just a sweeeet piece of shooting history- i will one day soon add one to my arsenal- surplus rifles are available and cheap still though the ammo price is about the same now as any deer rifle.......

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Plan9

Oh, yes! The Enfield.

I've got two of those monsters laying around somewhere.

Yes, once again... the ammo issue was what first came to mind.

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Whatever you can carry.

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MSD

Ruger 77/44 Silent Destroyer ... but seriously, Remington 700 is the way to go.

Plan9

"Phased plasma rifle in 40 watt range."

Okay, seriously...

Savage, Winchester, and Remington for new pieces.

Nagant, Enfield, and Mauser for surplus pieces.

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Jaegyr

mauser action, remington stock, savage barrel, savage trigger.

DuneHunter

How'd you make out NoSoup? The other thing you haven't mentioned is what you plan to use the rifle for? If just targeting, a lighter caliber would work fine. If you like to target, then you'll most likely get into longer ranges as the level of difficulty goes up with distance. Anything from a .17HMR to a .243 would be fun for that. Basically your "varmit" calibers. I lean towards the .223 myself being ex-military (M-16 caliber). But a 30-06 isn't bad for an all around rifle either. They used them for snipers in Nam so you know they have the ability to be accurate. It really all depends on what you want to use it for. Let us know...

P.S. If you want to have fun on the target range, a new in-line muzzleloader isn't a bad way to go either. ;-)

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NoSoup

Still hunting around for my next purchase...

I'll be using it exclusively for target practice, I don't much get into hunting...

Too much work. Instead of stalking my prey for hours on end, killling it, dragging it miles out of the forest, gutting/skinning it, and then somehow making it into edible chunks, I'd rather just go to the local grocery store

Dune - I was looking at the .223 as well, but I'm concerned about accuracy at long distances (300 yardsish, possibly longer) How does the .223 fare at that range?

Thanks for all the reply's folks, I't definately helping me narrow down my choices

__________________
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Just in case you were wondering...

Plan9

.223 is good for target practice.

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Whatever you can carry.

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Bear Cub

A good .223 is routinely used for cross the course matches, i.e, they're still very competitive from 200-600 yards.

Anxst

.223 Is plenty good out to 500 yards, from my experience. I'd prefer a .308 myself, but I'm a big guy and tend towards heavier rifles just as personal preference. Beyond 500 yards, I'd switch to a .30-06, but again, that's just me.

Are you a member of a range somewhere? Ask around, see if someone has a .223 you can take a few shots with just to see how you like the caliber.

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Jaegyr

.223 is fine for most target longer range stuff, at around 300 yards it should shine. and the ammo is cheap (comparatively) shot a target 22mag the other day and was picking off groundsquirrels out to 200 yards (got a new fav over the 17hmr now) that thing was freakin accurate as all hell. it was a marlin 22mag with stainless bull timmy trigger (sp) and a nikon prostaff scope.

DEI37

I don't know much about guns, but what are y'all's thoughts on the 7mm-08? I have a Savage, and haven't shot it yet.

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MSD

Very undderrated. The rifle was really tailored to the cartridge rather than simply being built to shoot it. You get comparable velocity to a 30-06 with a nice, flat trajectory in a lightweight package.

flstf

I have the most fun plinking with my Colt AR-15 (223). If I had some extra money I would get one of the 50 cal rifles like Barret or Grizzly before they are banned.

Jaegyr

love the 7mm-08 great rifle underappreciated...

DEI37

Well, then...I'll just have to get out and put some rounds through it. I'm irritated that I haven't yet.

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Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

desal75

You will love the Savage and you will love the 7mm-08

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Plan9

Get yourself a nice AK. .223 is a good choice if you don't like buying 7.62x39.

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Whatever you can carry.

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DEI37

I've got a Savage .22, and I love that thing. Never had any issues related to the gun. Cartridges, yes, but not the gun.

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Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

Slims

I suggest you plan on spending the same amount of money on your optics as your rifle. It makes a big difference.

I am a big remington 700 fan, though savage makes excellent, very affordable rifles.

If you are interested in target shooting only, then you have a couple options depending on personal preference:

Do you want to enter any competitions?
Do you want to be able to hunt legally, even though it isn't your primary reason for purchase?
Do you have lots of money?


If you are just interested in shooting at the range I would suggest a heavier bolt action, in a smaller caliber. Maybe .223.

The bigger the bullets, the more expensive they are. .223 is real popular and relatively inexpensive. It is very accurate and will be easy on the shoulder.

.308 is an excellent cartridge, and it too is also very popular, and all kinds of .308 ammunition is available from military surplus, to ultra-accurate match loads. It will kick a bit more than .223 and will cost a little extra, but it is very versatile and is perfect for most north american game (except maybe moose, etc.). It is the 'traditional' sniper caliber.

all the others: There are a lot of excellent cartridges out there, but unless you have a specific need (I.E. that moose) they are probably unnecessary for the range and will be expensive (the less popular the round, the more it costs). Also, no need to get some huge magnum cartridge when you are just shooting it at a local flat range. They are not worth the trouble unless you have a pressing need for the added performance.

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Plan9

(slides in a vote for a CZ 427 in .223 or 7.62x39mm)

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

DuneHunter

Hey NoSoup! Sorry I didn't get back to your question but looks the other fellas hit in right on the money. The .223 performs great at long distance. Any small caliber is a challenge out past 3-400 yards because of wind, etc. but it's doable for sure. If you're thinking as far as 600 you might want to consider moving up into the .300s, but it probably won't be necessary. Plus if you're looking just to target than you like a challenge anyway.
Jaegyr made a good point about the ammo. .223 comes fairly cheap and you can pick it up in bulk which is very nice. I know Cabella's has it in bulk, but I am sure any good sporting goods store can get it.

Let us know what you decide!

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Kingruv

I'm know coming in late to this NoSoup.

You're getting some great advice and I agree with most of it.
Some food for thought after 30 years of handloading.
I think of it somewhat like buying a car. How much is the cost after the initial purchase. Can I put any gas in it and regular oil or just 93 octane and synthetic oil only. (I like versatility)
Look at the range of ammo available in the calibers you are considering.
There are numerous loads manufactured with hunting in mind but not so many for target. Thats why so most serious target shooters are handloaders.
That being said, there is the twofold matter here because there is the matter of what is factory loaded and available off the shelf and what can possibly be handloaded using the wide array of bullets, powder and primer (and sometimes cases too) combination in any particular cartridge.
If you look at a variety of catalogs you will see of factory loads and reloading manuals the .308 Win. has more range from lightweight bullets to the upper range of bullet weights. Even in super accurate, high efficiency bullets there are several choices just in the upper middle range.
Another option for versatlity is whether the cartridge is available in saboted bullets such as 55 grain .223 loaded into a 30 caliber round. These are hyper velocity when loaded into larger 30 cal cases such as 30'06 and 300 Win Mag.
I don't disagree that the 22 calibers can move out at longer ranges but become problematic in areas where there are wind considerations. The heavier bullets will be more resistant to drift from this.
Not that I am recommending this cartridge but in years gone by, a very effective and favored gun/cartridge/caliber combination was the Swedish Mauser in 6.5 X 55 metric. This was made for the type of open range you are looking at. The only problem I see is availability of loads, bullets and factory fodder. There are a few factory rifles still chambered for this but fewer than years ago. There are a number of newer 6 and 6.5 mm cartridges coming along which may be betamax vs vhs gamble. There is no question though that these rifles can be super accurate and can even outperform .308/7.62 on punching paper out to about 700 to 800 meters.
I've found the more I can economize the more I can shoot. The more I shoot the more I want to shoot. This leads me to looking for other guns to shoot.
I'm not complaining yet though.

Jaegyr

oh i love the old 6.5x55 swedish mauser. got my hands on a Remington 700 buckmaster today and im actually impressed so anything bad i may have said about remingtons only involves the cheaper ones floodin the market right now. most any of the good mauser target rifles i can highly recommend, maybe even a CZ.

ragevirus

ok i think for your firtst time i would go with the remington model 7 308. and a leupold 2.5 X 10
the 308. will take down a moose if need be its a good round and relitivly easy to find
the luepold scope is the same i got its a good scope and you ca find em for 2-3 houndered dolars if you know whwere to look

if u want somthing with a bit more blast move on up to the 30-06 the same gun you shot the round is buetiful and you never have to worry about power and ell if you as good a shot as you say u can take it bear hounting but the 308. and the 30-06 are the best rifle rounds for you the next thing you got to do if find your company and scope but i love luepold s i recomend them


if you put it that way then i would go buy an AR-15 they are easy to find cheap and it con shoot out to 400= yard i dont think 500 maybe with match ammo and some prctice but you can get it to 400 yard relitivley easy

Plan9

Target shooting at 400 yards?

Hell, get a bolt action and a NICE scope.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

anubis_82

I have a rem. model 700 synthetic in a .243. I bought the rifle with glass for under a 900 bucks. Keeping in mind you want a high power scope, you could go off an get the 700 synthetic for around a grand. It is not a "Pretty" rifle by any means. I do however absolutly love my remington. It is simple to clean, hard to break and has been more than time proven. I will say that there are more accurate rifles out there but keep in mind that the rem. model 700 is what many sniper rifles are based from. Not to mention the more accurate ones will break the bank just to by but chances are they are in a caliber that in to freaking big for your reasons.

If you are looking to shoot 400 yards target, I think that what I am running for caliber (.243) would be a touch small, but the rifle comes in calibers from .17 HMR on up. I would go with either 30-06, .308 or even .270. The best would be 30-06 because the caliber is once again time proven (over 100 years) and with that, it has more research and more options on bullet weight then most any other caliber.

Oh and if you really want to get accurate, start reloading, I went from a 2 inch group and 100 yards to 5 shots and 1 1/2 holes at 100 yards with my good old Russian Moisin-nagant.