MooseMan3000

I'm looking into building a new higher performance gaming machine, and I have most of my components more or less decided on... except my memory. As far as I can see, no motherboards support any higher than DDR400 (PC3200). Why then do some DIMMs come in PC3500 and higher? Wa da fa? If NO motherboards support it, why are there so many choices for the higher grade stuff?

Next question: what's DDR2? Does it have something to do with the higher grade memory? If so, why do some plain ol DDR still come in 3500+? I assume DDR2 is just a faster version of old DDR - if that's the case, do I need a motherboard to specifically support it, or will any DDR mobo work?

I'm planning on overclocking the RAM, so what type should I get? I'm probably gonna start with Corsair XMS dual channel stuff... but is there any reason I should shy away from this RAM? Does some high end RAM overclock better than others?


And what ever happened to Rambus RAM?



Thanks for your help!

MikeSty

Care to list em ?

Some mobos do support DDR at different speeds, but it is most commonly PC2700 (DDR333) or PC3200 (DDR400). I'm not quite sure where you're looking. FYI, most mobos have variable RAM timings

DDR2 is a newer RAM form factor. It is not necessarily "higher grade" memory, it's just a different type. DDR2, in terms of clock speed, is faster than DDR, but from what I have learned the latency is higher. You need a mobo to specifically support it. DDR2 has 240 contacts, wheras DDR has 180-odd contacts.

Why on earth would you overclock RAM? Also, dual channel is not very much of a performance boost over "single" channel. Corsair XMS is okay, but OCZ is 3l33t. High end RAM may overclock better, but you're likely to fry it and waste money.

It.... sucked? A lot of machines from a few years back have RAMBUS, it's funny as eff diagnosing a RAM upgrade for them

Lasereth

DDR RAM comes in higher frequences than PC3200 (400 MHz) for overclocking, plain and simple. No processor on the market has a higher front side bus than 200 MHz so the highest RAM the average user will ever need is PC3200. PC3200 RAM is designed for 200 MHz FSB systems because the actual clock speed of PC3200 RAM is 200 MHz before you calculate in the multiplier (2). 2x200 MHz = 400 MHz. I could go way further in depth here, but there's not a reason to as of now.

Any RAM you see past PC3200 is made for overclocking, like I said. You want RAM with a higher frequency so it correlates with the FSB of your CPU. If you want to overclock to 217 MHz FSB, you would buy PC3500 (433 MHz) ram in theory. Many motherboard do not support ram speeds past PC3200, but some do (mainly mobos that are known for overclocking). Some Intel chipsets allow ram faster than PC3200 as well.

I admittedly don't know much about DDR2 memory. It does start at PC3200 and goes higher and I know that some Intel chipsets <I>require</I> it. It is indeed faster than DDR memory but I'm not really sure how considering the fastest of today's processors are still running at a base FSB of 200 MHz (before the multiplier). You <B>do</B> have to have a special motherboard to run DDR2 memory. Again, the DDR memory that is above PC3200 levels is for overclocking or possibly future processors that will breach the 200 MHz FSB limit. DDR2 is simply a newer DDR memory that goes way higher with theoretical better performances (which still won't happen until processors go past the 200 MHz limit).

If you are gonna overclock, good luck. Overclocking is 50% luck and 50% skill. The luck comes from whether or not you receive PC parts that are up to the task, and the skill comes from knowing how to overclock and not fry anything. I'd personally buy regular RAM and spend the rest on a faster processor rather than spending more money on OC'ing RAM and a slower processor. Today's games care about your videocard and RAM waaay more than your processor. Having a fast processor isn't necessary for any operating system and surely isn't necessary for gaming (when I say fast, I mean like faster than an Athlon 64 3200+ or a P4 3.2 GHz).

If you're hardset on overclocking, Corsair XMS is a great choice. Be prepared to pay literally 200% of DDR ram's price for it, however. OC'ing will not work period unless your motherboard allows multiplier and FSB changes as well as voltage changes. You also need to do research on if your processor is unlocked (open to FSB and multiplier changes). I'd buy a 1 GB stick of PC3200 Corsair XMS. You could buy 512x2, but dual channel is extremely overrated and some motherboards simply will not OC with two ram modules instead of one.

I can't help ya with rambus ram...I didn't get into the PC hardware market until DDR had just came out.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

MooseMan3000

Oh. That's simple enough.

Thanks for the input. I'm concerned mainly with upping the timings of the RAM (my current machine has a fairly severe RAM bottleneck, and I'm trying to avoid that in the new build), so I'll probably stick with PC3200. I'm not too concerned with OCing the processor, because I'm planning on buying an Athlon 64 3200 (maybe 3500... we'll see), and that should be plenty for me until my next major upgrade. Like I said, it's mainly going to be a gaming machine, so I'm concerned more with the video card. (possibly overclocking that... maybe buying a BFG OC version... hmmm)

That's what I said. I was wondering why RAM came in higher frequencies when motherboards and processors did not.

I know. I first heard about RDRAM when I was helping my friend upgrade his Dell's memory... I was like "wtf is PC800?"

This overclocking thing is not necessarily going to happen, either... but I plan on buying higher quality components this time around than I did last time (Generic RAM? Bad call.), and I'd like to get a little more bang out of them. When the time gets closer to actually buying the stuff, then I'll make a decision on whether it will be OC'd. Right now I'm just looking into my options.

The machine I'm leaning towards at the moment is this:

-Either the DFI nF4 Lanparty or the Asus SLI Premium... I want the higher end mobo mainly for the extra features (like Firewire. Hard to find on less expensive motherboards, and I don't like having to add an expansion card just for this), though overclocking is a consideration - the Lanparty scores very well in this.
-Athlon 64 3200+ Venice
-Geforce 6800 Ultra or a 7800 GTX - that will come down to my budget, most likely, or how much the prices change on each of them.
-1 GB (to start) PC 3200. I was looking at Corsair XMS, but OCZ was another of the ones high on my list. That Gold series stuff does look pretty nice.
-1 WD Raptor 36 GB (maybe 74... again, the budget thing) for my system drive.
-1 WD Caviar SE 320 GB storage drive (both drives SATA, mainly for neater cabling)
-I'm undecided on the case, though I'm leaning towards the Lian Li PC65 (Black) paired with a decent power supply (maybe an Antec TruePower... I'll have to read some more on these, though I've had good experienced with Antec, and they tend to get good reviews)
-And maybe if the price is right I'll finally upgrade to an LCD. I doubt this, though, as I would much rather spend that money on better components.

Keep in mind this is just playing around in my head at the moment - the actual build is still a few months off at least. This list will almost definitely change before it actually happens, and I might chicken out on the really high end stuff ($500+ for a video card is kinda scary ). Anyway, we'll see.

MikeSty

They... do...

btw I'm not Laserith

Lasereth

I'm not really sure I understand your build here. If you don't want to overclock your CPU, there's no reason to buy expensive RAM. Regular Crucial, Corsair, or Kingston will be fine for your PC if you're not gonna OC. It's twice as cheap and puts out the same performance as the expensive stuff (unless you're gonna OC). Good choice on getting a nice videocard though...that's where it counts. I'd also get 2 GB of RAM, especially if you plan on playing BF2 (that game is unbelievably ram-hungry). It's viable to get 2 GB of RAM nowadays when you can get 1 GB for $80. If anyone has ever told you that lowering the ram timings will increase performance, then they're simply trying to produce pretty 3d Mark numbers. You cannot tell a difference between low and high latency RAM...it's better to have more ram than faster latency ram, always.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

MooseMan3000

Actually, in my experience this hasn't always been true. In fact, changing the timings on my (quite poor) generic RAM had a significant effect on speed. It could be that they were set incorrectly to begin with, but I left BIOS on "auto detect" for a long time before I figured out there might be a problem. Changing the timings affected a significant speed increase, particularly in load times (that kinda caught me off guard, but it worked). It may be just that I have poor memory, but in my current machine it's a fairly significant bottleneck. I'm just trying to avoid that in the next one. Like I said, my mind will almost definitely change before I actually buy it. I'm going to spend a lot more time looking into my particular options. Every decision I've made so far is liable to change, with the exception of the high end graphics card. That I'm sure about.

And of course, I might end up waiting until UT2K7 is about to come out, to really push my machine. But then again, there's Elder Scrolls IV... oh god, the choices.

And MikeSty: Oops. See edit. And... which motherboards can you find that support higher frequency than PC3200? I can't find a single one. And which processors come in higher FSB (base) frequency than 200? I must be missing something here.

Lasereth

That's really odd that changing the timings on your ram resulted in a noticeable decrease in load times. I've honestly never heard of that happening. It almost sounds like the ram settings were wrong in the first place like you said. Either way, good luck!

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

skaven

Because people that want to run the memory bus on their motherboards overclocked will often buy memory that is guaranteed to be stable at the overclocked speeds. If you buy memory that is specced at 220Mhz DDR, then you'll know that you can run your memory bus at 220Mhz DDR and not have any issues.

Overclocking is when you run beyond the specs of a particular component. It's risky and often fails because of the simple reason that you're trying to exceed the specifications of what you purchased. Buying memory specced at a high speed not only gives you some headroom for future upgrades, but also helps to guarantee that your RAM isn't the part of your system that is preventing you from that sw33t overclock.

MikeSty

Well ... all modern AMD's .... sorta ;-)

Skaven has some great points though.