02-10-2005, 04:37 PM | #1 (permalink) | |||
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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You Can Click, But You Can't Hide! (lokitorrent go bye bye)
From the front page of www.lokitorrent.com (a message from the MPAA who was granted a court-ordered shutdown of lokitorrent)
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And then, if you're interested in more, get <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594200068/102-8114619-4233767">the book</a>. You'll also be glad you did. And after you've enriched your mind, mobilize along with everyone else....and create change. It's now or never. EDIT: Oh, and since not everyone knows who Lawrence Lessig is (from www.lessig.org): Quote:
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 02-10-2005 at 04:49 PM.. |
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02-10-2005, 05:31 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Pure Chewing Satisfaction
Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?
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Yikes.
I was just there yesterday looking for a TV show I missed. I was never really interested in downloading movies. Screw you, MPAA! Speaking along those lines, I assume that the MPAA doesn't represent the makers of television programming.. but is there an equivalent organization that does? Ya know, you'd think some entrepreneur in the industry would capitalize on the fact that people like to download things. I would so prefer to pay to download a particular TV show (without commercials!) and watch it when/how/where I want, as opposed to the current system used for broadcast TV.
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Greetings and salutations. |
02-10-2005, 05:39 PM | #3 (permalink) |
lonely rolling star
Location: Seattle.
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Pshaw. What's your point? Are you telling us that if we download a movie, theres a crystal clear path from where we got it to us? Bullchips. I'm not afriad of the MPAA. Not alot of people lose money from stolen movies, people STILL see them in the theatres. Even though I "steal" movies off the net, I still buy DVDs. But, damn, maybe the moviemakers should try to make better movies, instead of money off of movies that suck.
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"Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a. |
02-10-2005, 05:48 PM | #4 (permalink) | ||
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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However, there IS a pretty clear path to find you if they can get the courts to order people to hand over the information. I guess it's time for everyone to start using proxies. Not that those will provide complete obscurity, but it's better than nothing. Problem is, it slows the connection.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
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02-10-2005, 07:15 PM | #5 (permalink) |
I read your emails.
Location: earth
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my view.....
you know whats stealing in my eyes? the fact that tom hanks and people like mel gibson make 10 million dollars to make a movie. why so much, how about they get 1 million a movie. there are thousands of people who act for free just to act because they love the craft. why does a movie cost 12 bucks to see at the show? see above.... why does madonna get 22 million to make a cd? why not 1 million and the cd price drops from 18 bucks a cd, to a reasonable 5 bucks. would she not be happy as more people could enjoy her music? no she only wants money. and yes i know we all want money but come on now, when you price yourself out of the loop your the fault not the technology. the fact is that the pay scale has become insane. you don't deserve 12 million to make a movie or 9 million because you can play the guitar. i love that most of these starving artists start out doing free theatre or playing free shows because they love the music or acting. get a day job, there are tons of people who play guitar in a band and work 9-5 jobs. sorry for the rant. I just can't stand the fact that these people make so much money for doing nothing. They should be happy there being paid at all for doing things they love. We need a salary cap like sports! If everyone who works in that industry took a pay cut (meaning the lawyers/producers...etc all the over paid peeps) then cd's/movies would cost what they should. the fact they cost so much is that so many people in the chain think they deserve all this money for doing jobs others would do for 300 bucks, not 300 thousand. sorry just my retarded opinion. |
02-10-2005, 07:17 PM | #6 (permalink) |
I read your emails.
Location: earth
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btw, i am not for stealing and downloading, but i just can't stand that the money these people get is so high. sure there famous and deserve a good pay, but hell the high pay for all these actors and other people in the chain is why the cost to buy cd or go to a movie is so high. like pro sports, its just become insane. sorry again. i am slightly drunk too so that does not help.
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02-10-2005, 08:16 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
I read your emails.
Location: earth
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02-10-2005, 09:07 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Vroom!
Location: Toronto
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This whole situation stinks. I too use Lokitorrent to download TV shows. I missed the season premier of Alias because I was working, for example, and was able to get the 2 hour premier off Lokitorrent. These sites are great for downloading TV, and it's gonna hurt if I can't do that anymore. I admit I download alot of music. About 15 gigs last month. But it's getting harder to find some of the stuff I'm looking for, so I've started buying off iTunes. Pretty cheap anyways. Whatever... just dont take away my tv downloads
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I do it for the rare drops |
02-10-2005, 09:33 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
lonely rolling star
Location: Seattle.
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And about the other part... I am damn sure that nobody could find me from where I've downloaded stuff. I mean, take TONS of legal action, and sure. Who's got the time or money to waste tracking me down from the one time I downloaded "Eternal Sunshine"?
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"Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a. |
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02-10-2005, 10:06 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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Quote:
/.... I still think they get paid a little too much myself, but at least you can see the flipside, yeah? |
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02-10-2005, 11:21 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Sorry sadistikdreams, I guess I just sort of assumed most people had seen the trend of my posts in Tilted Computers which tend to only pertain to one of two issues. My bad.
No, I am not against file sharing. In fact, as the Free Culture presentation hints to, I am moreso against copyright. At least how it's been for the past hundred or so years especially. Regarding the MPAA finding people, if someone has used lokitorrent to download something, they had to register. That means lokitorrent has that persons IP address. Furthermore, lokitorrent, if I'm not mistaken, as most registration bittorrent sites do, kept track of user stats, i.e. share ratios. In order to do this, the tracker knows and records the IP address of every user that connects to the tracker and what file they were downloading. There is no extensive searching required - the MPAA has all the IP addresses right there. And they, like the RIAA, will probably file a lawsuit against thousands of IP addresses, just waiting for the looming day in court when it is finally (and ominously) decided that ISPs, etc can be forced to turn over the info regarding who belonged to what IP at what time, and all at their own expense. So, no, all of this really doesn't require a lot of work on the part of the MPAA. Quote:
Also, I take issue with the public opinion war that the RIAA and MPAA are waging (quite successfully) to make people equate copyright infringement and stealing. They are and always have been two separate and unrelated crimes. Unfortunately, recently, the collective force of these industries has been making inroads into changing the law so that they ARE equated. If you look at the history of copyright (which is touched upon in the flash Free Culture presentation) this pretty much goes against the very concept of why copyrights were created (don't be confused, if you're not familiar, some of the language Lessig uses to describe copyright infringement is MOCKING the language the MPAA, et al use (such as stealing), not agreeing with it). The fact is, going after the people who actually commit crimes is too difficult and costly for the MPAA and RIAA. Changing their business model to account for technological advancements is too scary (see the Betamax fiasco, as well as the cassette tape fiasco, oh and the record fiasco, oh oh and also the radio fiasco - what's going on now is NOTHING new). So, instead, they're using their muscle to bully people (including 12 year old kids and dead 80 year olds who have never touched a computer!) into compliance until they can use that same muscle to influence politicians (through compaign contributions, etc) to change the law, this way the government can take over the bullying for them.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 03-30-2005 at 10:03 PM.. |
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02-11-2005, 06:56 AM | #14 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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i was downlaoding 'greatist speaches of the 20th century" i was 80% done, with none of the MP3's finished. tracker is down, so i cant get it any more. not all torrents are copywriten.
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Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen |
02-11-2005, 11:08 AM | #15 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Firefox yourself and change the world!
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Another one bites the dust and i can care less. Gland there cracking down on movie, music and software theft. Yes i know there are many great things in the world of BT shareing that is not copywrited. But when the good stuff happens to be hosted where the illegal stuff is its a price you got to pay by downloading stuff where the others are hosted.
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I'll make ya famous! |
02-11-2005, 12:14 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Professional Loafer
Location: texas
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Thanks to BitTorrent, I purchase more DVDs
Thanks to the MPAA, I buy them used...
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"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane." |
02-11-2005, 01:59 PM | #17 (permalink) | ||
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Alright, some of the official story is coming out. Here's an article from arstechnica (emphasis mine):
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 02-11-2005 at 02:02 PM.. |
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02-11-2005, 02:04 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: my cubicle
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Loki Torrent shut down by MPAA, are you worried?
im not talking about the actual removal of the lokitorrent website, but rather the implications from it. according to this news story:
http://p2pnet.net/story/3849 lokitorrent has not only been taken down, but the site admin has been ordered by the court to provide records of all activity on the site. that scares me a lot since i have visited that site from time to time, although ive only downloaded episodes of 24 which i would assume to be legal since its a public tv show |
02-11-2005, 02:14 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
Devoted
Donor
Location: New England
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Quote:
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I can't read your signature. Sorry. |
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02-11-2005, 02:16 PM | #21 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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As far as I'm aware, broadcast television shows are OK to download *IF* the commercials are left intact - which is done about 0% of the time . So, if you downloaded broadcast TV shows from lokitorrent, it is likely not legit. Cable TV shows just aren't legit to download in the first place.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
02-11-2005, 04:34 PM | #24 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: the back of a giant turtle
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Well, let me just say that I am one of those guys who rarely downloads movies but will DL a pc title in a second to see if it is worth the $50. Most arent. And those DL'd games, after trying them out, are off my pc just as fast. The ones that were worth it I actually purchased. Call of Duty is one of them. I'm sorry but I will not spend money on the hope that a game will be what I want. Its like gambling; and I dont gamble. In regards to the film and movie industry losing money: "yeah fucking right". Brian1975 made a number of good points and he is right. No one is really losing money. I have yet to read definitve evidence of big screen actors being paid less money due to movie piracy. I truly feel that we the consumers are the ones being ripped off when we pay $18 for a crap cd or $10 for a bullshit movie.
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03-18-2005, 04:08 PM | #25 (permalink) |
2+2=5? Not again!
Location: Dallas, Texas
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I use torrents but I support taking legal action against people who violate existing copyright law.
I have downloaded and reuploaded torrents before. Not much, but that's because most of the time I don't want anything you'd need a torrent for. What I'd really love is a torrent site dedicated to material from people who just want their work to be seen. I can accept it if the people that made what I downloaded take me to court. They can force me to pay the $5 I have cost them or something equally fair. Take the site I got it from too. Take their nonexistant profit and shut them down. They were giving you free advertising, but who needs that? It won't help the people represented by the MPAA but it makes their lawyers look great in the press. Seriously, we need to have a way for someone to make something and say "that is mine" long enough to make a living. On the other hand, today's copyright law is too restrictive. It is dictated by corporations and bribed politicians far seperated from the creation of ideas and entertainment. These legal battles are an attempt to inflate prices beyond what creative people and customers need with the profits feeding the big studios. In the process we are stifling the creation of art by our fellow Americans. Just my opinion. |
03-18-2005, 05:08 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Insane
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If you guys are still into torrents, the new (not sure how new, so it could be a bit oldish) eXeem client uses torrents, but it gets rid of the need for a tracker. It has a search and works sort of like FastTrack and Overnet. Just giving a heads up.
BTW, I am for downloading for all the reasons mentioned already and because it makes sense. I said this in the other post, but I'll repeat it again. Downloading should not be considered illegal, because a) you don't know what you're getting and b) it's offered to you for free. Now uploading is another story and while I would love to say that it should be legal as well, I can see the arguments of the other side. |
03-18-2005, 07:04 PM | #27 (permalink) |
Mjollnir Incarnate
Location: Lost in thought
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I'll just add that I'll be really pissed if the *AA somehow manages to kill BT (Long shot, I know. But never underestimate large corporations). I was downloading some linux ISOs a few weeks ago. Average speed? Probably 700 kb/s. Where else are you gonna get speeds like that?
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03-18-2005, 07:13 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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That's precisely why they'll have such a hard time shutting it out. Of all the p2p networks, bittorrent is used for a tremendous amount of LEGAL things.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
03-19-2005, 01:39 AM | #30 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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... just came back to checkup on this thread -- you guys know this turned out to be a hoax? Turns out the owner took the almost $30K from the "legal defense fund" (preceding the shut down of course) and ran. What a bitch.
I can probably find the article again if you can't google it. |
03-19-2005, 02:01 AM | #31 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Well, this is as good a thread as any to point out that there are some pretty cool legal torrent sites out there as well:
http://bt.etree.org/index.php http://www.prodigem.com/torrents/ http://www.legaltorrents.com/
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
03-21-2005, 01:32 PM | #32 (permalink) | |
Winner
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Quote:
http://www.joegratz.net/archives/200...awsuit-no-hoax |
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03-22-2005, 12:36 PM | #35 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: Omaha, NE
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As consumers we decide whether or not to pay for entertainment. If we don't think the Tom Hanks movie deserves our $10, then we don't have to pay it.
Some of the justifications people use are rediculous. You can not decide how much people should make for a movie! You can only decide whether or not to pay for it and support their income, and if you choose not to pay for it you have no right to enjoy it!. Nobody is forcing this stuff on you. |
03-22-2005, 12:44 PM | #36 (permalink) |
Natalie Portman is sexy.
Location: The Outer Rim
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It was sad that LokiTorrent had to go, but I still stick with (Sweden-based) The Pirate Bay. Check out their 'legal threats' section for some hilarious letters.
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"While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx |
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bye, click, hide, lokitorrent |
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