The EU and Software Patents - Please Get Involved - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

cyrnel · 01-25-2005, 05:06 AM

Hello TFP'ers,

I'm not normally big on politics. This topic however is near & dear.

The push by big business to get patent protection for software continues. These patents (for software already protected by international copyright) are used to control who can enter markets, and are specifically a new commercial tool against open source projects. Do you live in an EU member country? If you haven't written your representatives, now would be a good time.

Software patents in the U.S. are a disaster. They're granted for obvious processes and only serve to restrict development by forcing developers through a maze of patent examination and licensing, for things as simple as tabbing between hyperlinks in your web browser. Those with the funds to pay patent ransom win, while independent developers with nothing but passion for the technology are shackled. If software patent passes in the EU it will have widespread negative effects on software availability, cost, innovation, and diversity. Please do what you can.

For that matter those of us in the U.S. need to get off our butts and let our representatives know how we feel.

Check here for information, press releases, etc.:
http://NoSoftwarePatents.com

And a lobying guide in PDF format - what you can do to help:
http://www.NoSoftwarePatents.com/docs/050124guide.pdf

My apologies if this has been brought up here before. I made a quick search but nothing obvious turned up.

Raising a toast to Poland. :cheers!:

SecretMethod70 · 01-25-2005, 06:11 AM

Here's some info from a <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=52025">previous thread</a> I made regarding this, back when the web strike was going on....

<a href="http://webshop.ffii.org/">Trivial Patents</a> (all info copied from linked page)

All of the elements and processes indicated in the graphic below are covered by granted (not just requested) European Patents. These kinds of patents would be rendered enforceable by the Commission's and the JURI Committee's proposal, as has been shown <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/tech/index.en.html">elsewhere</a>. The <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/">directive as voted by the European Parliament</a> however, makes sure these patents remain what they are today: examples of the EPO's drift towards unlimited patentability, without any legal value whatsoever.

<a href="http://www.ffii.org/">FFII</a> will continue to fight for clear and useful limits on patentability, so that atrocities like those shown below will not make their debut in Europe. If you agree with these goals, please take a moment to <a href="http://petition.eurolinux.org/">sign the petition</a> against European software patents and to <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/demands/">sign our Call for Action II</a> (<a href="mailto:cpedu-help@ffii.org">mail us</a> if you want to be publicly listed there as company, scientist, professional, user group, ...). See <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html">this page</a> for more things you can do to help.

1. Webshop: Selling things over a network using a server, client and payment processor, or using a client and a server - EP803105 and EP738446
2. Order by cell phone: Selling over a mobile phone network - EP1090494
3. Shopping cart: Electronic shopping cart - EP807891 and EP784279
4. [CDs] [Films] [Books]: Tabbed palettes - EP689133
5. Picture link: Preview window - EP537100
6. View/download film: Video data distribution through the web - EP933892
7. View film: Video streaming ("segmented video on-demand") - EP633694
8. MP3-format: Audio compression format, covered by numerous patents, e.g. EP287578
9. Credit card: Pay using credit card via the Internet - EP820620 and EP779587
10. Gift: Order a gift for someone via the Internet by providing his/her email address - EP927945 (note: the claims on the target page are less broad than the eventually granted claims in the B1 form of the patent)
11. Request loan: Automated loan application - EP715740
12. VISA: Digital signature in graphic to show that the shop is approved for receiving VISA payments - EP798657
13. Send offers: Send offers in response to request - EP986016
14. Send to vendor: Reroute incoming orders to a vendor - EP217308
15. Support database: Network support system using databases - EP673135
16. Preview chapters: Use of TV as metaphor for selecting different video fragments - EP670652
17. Ladybug image: JPEG format - EP266049
18. Related results: Show related results if customer likes the current ones - EP628919
19. Rebate code: Allow rebate codes to be entered by customers - EP370847
20. Burn at shop: Material reproduction of information stored at remote location - EP195098

catback · 01-26-2005, 04:18 PM

I don't mind software patents, if you wanna develop write your own code or pay for the code you want to borrow. Enough with cheap-skates taking code and assembling it into something they call their own. The only problem with patents is the committee that grants them, not everything can and/or should be patented. Things like water, air, a single for next (program) loop, and simple phrases such as "That's hot" shouldn't be patented or able to be patented. Things that show unique creativity should be but general and basic ideas should be restricted from being able to get a patent otherwise patents will run-a-muck. I also gotta get this off my chest, paris hilton may be dumb but the person(s) who granted her the patent/trademark/whatever to the saying "That's Hot" are dumber.

"That's Hot" is exclusively the rights of paris hilton despite how dumb she is do not re-use, sell, or otherwise profit from it as her families lawyers are not as dumb as her and they are backed with money to the bone.

jonjon42 · 01-26-2005, 04:37 PM

catback..I think you are thinking of copyright...we are talking patents...
patents are for the idea...example...left clicking..example one click shopping...example Mcafee just recieved a patent for tracking network events on a computer using a firewall. now the problem with this is alot of what they described has been done before...just not patented. It's not innovation it's just making patents of things that have been around and nobody thought about before...and then trying to enforce...software patents stifle innovation which is the opposite of what they were supposed to do. The fact that alot if not most of these patents have some kind of prior art and yet still get granted does not help.(it's hard to fight off a patent lawsuit..especially if you are a FOSS developer)

Now if you are a programmer you don't want to know anything about patents because if you "willfully" broke patent law the punishment is helluva lot worse then if you don't know about it...and some of the things patented by different corperations are kinda necessary...

01-25-2005, 05:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	The EU and Software Patents - Please Get Involved Hello TFP'ers, I'm not normally big on politics. This topic however is near & dear. The push by big business to get patent protection for software continues. These patents (for software already protected by international copyright) are used to control who can enter markets, and are specifically a new commercial tool against open source projects. Do you live in an EU member country? If you haven't written your representatives, now would be a good time. Software patents in the U.S. are a disaster. They're granted for obvious processes and only serve to restrict development by forcing developers through a maze of patent examination and licensing, for things as simple as tabbing between hyperlinks in your web browser. Those with the funds to pay patent ransom win, while independent developers with nothing but passion for the technology are shackled. If software patent passes in the EU it will have widespread negative effects on software availability, cost, innovation, and diversity. Please do what you can. For that matter those of us in the U.S. need to get off our butts and let our representatives know how we feel. Check here for information, press releases, etc.: http://NoSoftwarePatents.com And a lobying guide in PDF format - what you can do to help: http://www.NoSoftwarePatents.com/docs/050124guide.pdf My apologies if this has been brought up here before. I made a quick search but nothing obvious turned up. Raising a toast to Poland. :cheers!:

01-25-2005, 06:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Here's some info from a <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=52025">previous thread</a> I made regarding this, back when the web strike was going on.... <a href="http://webshop.ffii.org/">Trivial Patents</a> (all info copied from linked page) All of the elements and processes indicated in the graphic below are covered by granted (not just requested) European Patents. These kinds of patents would be rendered enforceable by the Commission's and the JURI Committee's proposal, as has been shown <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/tech/index.en.html">elsewhere</a>. The <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/">directive as voted by the European Parliament</a> however, makes sure these patents remain what they are today: examples of the EPO's drift towards unlimited patentability, without any legal value whatsoever. <a href="http://www.ffii.org/">FFII</a> will continue to fight for clear and useful limits on patentability, so that atrocities like those shown below will not make their debut in Europe. If you agree with these goals, please take a moment to <a href="http://petition.eurolinux.org/">sign the petition</a> against European software patents and to <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/demands/">sign our Call for Action II</a> (<a href="mailto:cpedu-help@ffii.org">mail us</a> if you want to be publicly listed there as company, scientist, professional, user group, ...). See <a href="http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html">this page</a> for more things you can do to help. 1. Webshop: Selling things over a network using a server, client and payment processor, or using a client and a server - EP803105 and EP738446 2. Order by cell phone: Selling over a mobile phone network - EP1090494 3. Shopping cart: Electronic shopping cart - EP807891 and EP784279 4. [CDs] [Films] [Books]: Tabbed palettes - EP689133 5. Picture link: Preview window - EP537100 6. View/download film: Video data distribution through the web - EP933892 7. View film: Video streaming ("segmented video on-demand") - EP633694 8. MP3-format: Audio compression format, covered by numerous patents, e.g. EP287578 9. Credit card: Pay using credit card via the Internet - EP820620 and EP779587 10. Gift: Order a gift for someone via the Internet by providing his/her email address - EP927945 (note: the claims on the target page are less broad than the eventually granted claims in the B1 form of the patent) 11. Request loan: Automated loan application - EP715740 12. VISA: Digital signature in graphic to show that the shop is approved for receiving VISA payments - EP798657 13. Send offers: Send offers in response to request - EP986016 14. Send to vendor: Reroute incoming orders to a vendor - EP217308 15. Support database: Network support system using databases - EP673135 16. Preview chapters: Use of TV as metaphor for selecting different video fragments - EP670652 17. Ladybug image: JPEG format - EP266049 18. Related results: Show related results if customer likes the current ones - EP628919 19. Rebate code: Allow rebate codes to be entered by customers - EP370847 20. Burn at shop: Material reproduction of information stored at remote location - EP195098 __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

01-26-2005, 04:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
jonjon42 Psycho Location: inside my own mind	catback..I think you are thinking of copyright...we are talking patents... patents are for the idea...example...left clicking..example one click shopping...example Mcafee just recieved a patent for tracking network events on a computer using a firewall. now the problem with this is alot of what they described has been done before...just not patented. It's not innovation it's just making patents of things that have been around and nobody thought about before...and then trying to enforce...software patents stifle innovation which is the opposite of what they were supposed to do. The fact that alot if not most of these patents have some kind of prior art and yet still get granted does not help.(it's hard to fight off a patent lawsuit..especially if you are a FOSS developer) Now if you are a programmer you don't want to know anything about patents because if you "willfully" broke patent law the punishment is helluva lot worse then if you don't know about it...and some of the things patented by different corperations are kinda necessary... __________________ A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part.... Last edited by jonjon42; 01-26-2005 at 04:40 PM..

01-26-2005, 04:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
catback Psycho Location: North America	I don't mind software patents, if you wanna develop write your own code or pay for the code you want to borrow. Enough with cheap-skates taking code and assembling it into something they call their own. The only problem with patents is the committee that grants them, not everything can and/or should be patented. Things like water, air, a single for next (program) loop, and simple phrases such as "That's hot" shouldn't be patented or able to be patented. Things that show unique creativity should be but general and basic ideas should be restricted from being able to get a patent otherwise patents will run-a-muck. I also gotta get this off my chest, paris hilton may be dumb but the person(s) who granted her the patent/trademark/whatever to the saying "That's Hot" are dumber. "That's Hot" is exclusively the rights of paris hilton despite how dumb she is do not re-use, sell, or otherwise profit from it as her families lawyers are not as dumb as her and they are backed with money to the bone.