jujueye

Ouch! Didn't know that. Thanks for the update. I'll stick with my own rips to wav or aiff...or mp3.

Thanks!

anleja

I have a 40 GB Zen Xtra, last night I was telling my friend it was the best money I've ever spent. I've never experienced an ipod, or any other player, so I don't know how it compares. I do know it cost about $100 less than an ipod with the same memory.

One thing is that the software was a bit murky for me at first, but now I am used to it, it is second nature. From reading the reviews on Amazon.com, I think this is a common complaint. But the hardware is so far, so good. I've never even had the battery run out on me before I get it recharged, and I've fallen asleep with it on and woken up in the morning with it still playing.

I admit, I am a bit envious of all the accessories the ipod has, but I think I still bought a good product.

So far I've had no trouble with any type of file, but I've only tried MP3 or WAV files, and they go on there fine. Of 5000+ songs so far (and 10GB left to fill) I've had a tiny handfull of songs that would not transfer, but I'd use the software to manually transfer the the format from, say, MP3 to WAV, and it would go on fine.

tspikes51

Ummm.... I think it's safe to assume that the highest quality regular consumer line of mp3 players comes from iRiver. They sound excellent, have nice features, a good interface, and on the hard drive players, a 1.5 or 2 inch color screen that you can view .jpegs on.

__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million."
-Maddox

radioguy

i just bought a Rio Forge 256mb and am EXTREMELY HAPPY! it's very easy to add/delete songs and is easy to understand the menus on the actual player. one of the cool things about this is that you can add memory to this player by inserting a memory card. you can add up to 1gb of memory. it runs on one triple A. i've had no problems whatsoever with it. the radio on it comes in great for me. highly recommended. $150 not including a $50 mail-in-rebate. go get one!

bingle

Yeah, I used to feel that way too, until I found out the way that their shuffle function works... Apparently if you play the same playlist twice shuffled, it will play the exact same songs in the same order. That's just unacceptable!

Also, apparently there's some problem with the way directories work - you can only shuffle things on the same directory level, or something like that.

Still, I think the iRiver players would be my second choice after the Karma. The color screens and the fact you can record are pretty cool. And it supports formats like Ogg and FLAC, which is a must for me. The combination of AllOfMp3 and an Ogg-capable player is much better than iTunes and an iPod.

Bingle

longbough

Anybody who has used an iPod will know why you can't even compare it to other players on the market.

#1.) Why so much storage space? Sure, you can plop songs on as you need them for your MP3 player, but with an iPod you don't need to swap files in advance. When you have the convenience of all your music at hand all the time you wonder why anybody would waste time at home swapping and managing music files to keep on the player.
#2.) When got my iPod the first thing I did was to dump every CD I had onto it. With firewire (instead of USB) each complete CD was transferred in only a couple of minutes. I ran out of CDs in one sitting! I started borrowing my brother's and friend's CDs just to store for another day!
#3.) The software found the label data online and entered the Song Names, Album and Artist for me. I didn't have to even type. My friend had Japanese and Mandarin pop albums and his iPod even found track info for them! On the iPod screen (yes it does have a screen) the info was in Japanese and Mandarin!
#4.) Since all the music is with me all the time I just leave the house with my iPod. When I think of an old song I haven't heard in years I just play it right then and there! I don't have to go home and decide which ones to transfer.
#5.) I taped hours worth of lecture notes and transferred them to my iPod - and could listen to them wherever and whenever I wanted.
#6.) The charge on mine lasts a heck of a long time!
#7.) I can use my iPod to store data files as well - and I have 40 gigs of storage space for it all.

So you can't really compare other MP3 players to an iPod. They're totally different. Just comparing the features and numbers on paper is no substitute for using one. Some MP3 players have as much or more storage - Others may have more functions on the player - some are really tiny and certainly much cheaper. But the iPod has just the right combination of features that put it in a class by itself.
Most people who hate iPods have never used one. All the little conveniences together make a huge difference. Before I got one I was put off by the size - but it's not a bad tradeoff for all the convenience.

They've got to be doing something right if the iPod is still so popular despite its price and the "Apple stigma." It's not all about the ad campaign either.

longbough

And let me add a few facts.
From Wired News: "About 80 percent of Microsoft employees who have a portable music player have an iPod"
According to Bloomberg - Sales of iPods accounted for 40% of the MP3 player sales in Japan in 2004 - but as the mini-iPod took off they're expected to reach as much as 70% of the Japanese market in 2005. (In Japan, no less, home of Sony and all the coolest electronics on the planet.)

Just try one. Unless you're biased to hate iPods from the start you'll find that nothing even compares to it.

bingle

Well, I don't hate iPods, I just don't think they're the best player for your money. I think they're wildly succesful because of marketing and press, not because of features.

Everything you mentioned is a feature of *every* HDD DAP out there worth its salt. Some things other players even do better - Battery life, for example, was one of the iPod's weak points until recently, when it's gotten closer to other players.

Really the only thing I think you can point to that might distinguish the iPod from other players is the interface. Apple is very good at designing interfaces. But of course, that's mostly a matter of opinion; different people will find different players more or less enjoyable.

However, interface alone doesn't make up for the lack of important features (important to me, anyway) such as Ogg support and *gapless playback*. All you have to do is try to listen to The Wall or Abbey Road on an iPod, and you'll see what a huge deal that feature is. It's absolutely essential to have if you enjoy listening to full albums, and that means no iPod for me.

Bingle

Edit: Also, all the numbers you gave simply point to the fact that the iPod is the most *popular* player, which no one is disputing. But "most popular" is almost never the same as "best quality", especially when you're talking tech devices.

longbough

I think the interface is a strong part of the appeal - for me and for many others. It's not a trivial point. It wouldn't be the same if the player had 20 buttons for 30 functions clustered all over it (exaggerating of course). It isn't because I'm not technically adept - quite the contrary. I just appreciate good, practical, efficient design.

My point in bringing up its popularity certainly doesn't prove that it's the best, but the figures are significant enough (IMO) to suggest that it's not all about advertising alone. I wouldn't say that the 80% of Microsoft employees (who own iPods) are simply reacting blindly to an Apple advertising campaign. If that were true then 80% of Microsoft employees would have Mac G5s at home as well. The point is that it's not all just hype - that's all.

I confess haven't been keeping up with other players but I wasn't aware of another 40gig, firewire, "self labelling" (multilingual) MP3 player. If that's the case then I'm still paying for the interface - which is worth the difference - but this would be a matter of personal opinion.

Good point about the "gap," though - which does bother me.

bgivnin

That, as well as being forced to use iTunes (I'm waiting for good technology to come to a 20GB that allows native Windows Explorer use AND kickass battery life) are the main reasons why I'm not getting an iPod, but that brings me to why I'm replying to you, Bingle:

What MP3 players DO allow gapless playback? I listen to almost all live concert CD's exclusively and I really don't want to deal with even a second of gap.

I was thinking about the IAudio M3L, but there's issues with the file management and playback that killed that for me.

Am I asking for much in a unit that costs $250~300? I want good battery life, small, 20GB, native Windows Explorer or MP10 functionality and a decent UI. I guess I'll just have to wait longer.

pixelbend

I really can't see why you would prefer an Explorer interface over the iTunes interface. With iTunes, you have all of the metadata right in front of you, you can use the browse functionality to look through your library by genre, artist, or album (or any combination of the three). Don't even get me started on smart playlists.

What benefits does Explorer give you over that? Maybe I'm missing something.

__________________
But I don't want ANY Spam!

bingle

The only one on the market I'm aware of is the Rio Karma. It's a 40GB player, smaller than the iPod, with excellent battery life. It also supports Ogg, FLAC, and WMA. The main downside is that is uses a database for song storage, meaning you have to have your MP3s tagged properly, and you can't use Explorer for file transfers. It's also difficult to use it as a mass-storage device. On the plus side, the database storage means it can play your music in exciting ways, like rock music from the 80s, or all albums by the Peanut Butter Conspiracy.

It's a great player, it's the one I own, but if easy file transfer and mass-storage capabilities are important it's not the best on the market for that.

Bingle

bingle

Firewire is rare, it's true, but USB2.0 is just as fast, and more prevalent on PCs. The self-labeling feature you keep mentioning puzzles me... Every CD ripping program I've used since 1998 or so has had CDDB or FreeDB support, meaning they automatically download the track information and tag your files correctly. Is there something else the iPod does too? My Karma also supports multilingual files, but I don't know how common that is.

Bingle

zfleebin

I checked out a number of players before I got my 60gb iphoto and I think I made the best choice for me. I have found a number of ways of getting around using itunes including sharepod, copypod, etc. I also use .wav to keep the sound quality of my better cd's (definitely not all of them). I am still at a loss as to why everyone thinks one mp3 player is superior to all others. I mean my ipod works for me my wifes 256mb Sandisk works for her. Does there have to be a best?

longbough

Well, it's not so much that there has to be a "best" player - Most of us just like to argue about matters of taste and personal preference - this is, after all, a forum. But I agree.