I'm upgrading my computer and I would like some opinions... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KnifeMissile · 10-17-2004, 04:22 PM

I, too, am upgrading my system... by buying an entirely new one! I have no real budget, since I have a full time job, but I have very particular needs (actually, I'm just picky). I'm buying all my parts from Canada Computers since they seem to have good prices and a store is just down the street from me. So, this is what I plan to get:

Asus P5AD2 Deluxe motherboard, for Intel 925X chipset (socket LGA775) - $311.00
Coarsair 512MB RAM, 533MHz DDR2 240pins - 2x $188.00
Sapphire Radeon X300SE graphics card - $89.00
Intel P4-HT 3.0GHz CPU, 1MB L2 cache, 800Mhz FSB (socket LGA775) - $247.00
WD CaviarSE HD, 200GB S-ATA - $144.00
Pioneer DVR 108, 16x DVD+/- RW Dual - $113.00
Antec P160 aluminum enclosure - $155.00
Thermaltake Silent PurePower PSU, 480W - $99.00
Creative Labs I-Trigue 2.1 speaker system - $99.00

Which comes to a grand total of $1633 CAD, not including tax. Dell can put something similar together for less money except that they will force me to buy a load of crappy software that I don't want.

I'm not really comfortable spending that much on a case and power supply but I can't find anything that's both nice and inexpensive. In particular, it would be nice if I could find a case like the Antec P160 without it having to be aluminum, a feature that doesn't much concern me. What concerns me is that my enclosure is more expensive than my video card!
I also wanted one of those fancy PSUs that display exactly how much power is being used but my store doesn't seem to sell one. Also, I have this fear that it will pretty much read the same amount of power regardless of what my computer is doing--which would be good to know but kind of embarrassing. Perhaps there's a generic device I can get to do this? It would be nice to include my monitor's power usage too!

Anyway, any advice? All comments are welcome!
Thanks...

skaven · 10-17-2004, 05:30 PM

Looks like you've thought it out quite a bit -- a couple suggestions (disclaimer: I work for AMD...)

If you're OK with spending CAD$1600 on a new system, I think you would get much better performance for your dollar going with an Athlon XP-based system. You can get an Asus A7N8X deluxe motherboardm (has sATA support), an Athlon XP 3200+ (barton core) processor, and 1G of Corsair XMS low-latency memory for just US$500. That leaves a TON of headroom for, say, a fancy schmancy video card, or a cool surround-sound system. As far as performance, the P4 HT 3Ghz chip on a DDR2 platform may score better in the benchmarks, but not so much that you'd notice, especially considering the extra money you're spending on the Intel platform.

Another suggestion (though ones that's probably more expensive than what you've listed), is to go with an AMD Athlon64 solution. Not only do the Athlon64 processors leave most Intel processors behind, you won't have to worry about upgrading your CPU/motherboard when the 64-bit edition of Windows comes out. Just load it up and you're good to go. Since Intel's 64-bit implementation is actually copied from AMD's, chances are Intel's will actually be buggier than AMD's in the new 64-bit apps.

The one caveat to this suggestion is if you're planning on using this rig to do a lot of video encoding (the DVD recorder might indicate this). In that case, the P4's simply put the Athlon in the dust. This is mostly due to most encoders supporting the P4's SSE-2 extensions, which the Athlon-XP does not have. Also, the HT helps a lot if you're encoding in the background and don't want your foreground apps lagging.

As for the chassis, the best suggestion I can make is to go with something time-tested and sure to deliver. I got myself a <a href="http://www.antec-inc.com/Search.bok?category=Enclosures"> PlusView 1000 AMG</a> enclosure, and married it with an Antec Tru380 380W power suply. The chassis is built like a tank, and has plenty of space inside for all your peripherals. As far as power supplies, the only ones I trust are from Antec. I have an Atec Tru380 PSU in my system, and it has delivered clean, reliable power for several years now.

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for as far as monitoring power usage, but most (if not all) motherboards have onboard sensors to report the current voltages on the board. I'm not really sure what the benefit of knowing how many watts of power you're using would be, aside from the "bells and whistles" factor.

Finally, are you planning on doing any gaming with this rig? Remember that most games depend more on a good video card than they do a fast processor.

Well that's a lot to digest...no matter what you decide on building, just make sure you have fun with it!!

Lasereth · 10-17-2004, 06:09 PM

I'd save money and buy an "old fashioned" AGP/PCI mobo instead of the LGA 775. That much for a motherboard is insane. PCI-E isn't useful yet and LGA requires DDR2 memory on most boards.

The processor is fine, but I'd get a Socket 478 version and possibly the 3.4 GHz Northwood. That processor won't need upgrading for years.

What's the deal with the shitcan videocard!? If you're gonna get 1 GB of RAM and a super fast processor, the only obvious thing to do is to get a blazing fast videocard (unless you're not gonna play videogames at all). If you are gonna play games, I'll recommend some videocards later!

Everything else looks fine!

-Lasereth

Almo · 10-17-2004, 08:17 PM

The pioneer drive is $110 btw, and is a very good drive. That or the NEC 3500A.

KnifeMissile · 10-17-2004, 08:25 PM

These are some very good advice. I'm glad to find some reasonable replies here and it's a refreshing change from Tilted Politics. Thank you. Now, I use the threaded view so it would make sense for me to reply to each person, individually, but I don't think this is a popular view so I will lump my responses in one post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaven

Another suggestion (though ones that's probably more expensive than what you've listed), is to go with an AMD Athlon64 solution. Not only do the Athlon64 processors leave most Intel processors behind, you won't have to worry about upgrading your CPU/motherboard when the 64-bit edition of Windows comes out. Just load it up and you're good to go. Since Intel's 64-bit implementation is actually copied from AMD's, chances are Intel's will actually be buggier than AMD's in the new 64-bit apps.

The one caveat to this suggestion is if you're planning on using this rig to do a lot of video encoding (the DVD recorder might indicate this). In that case, the P4's simply put the Athlon in the dust. This is mostly due to most encoders supporting the P4's SSE-2 extensions, which the Athlon-XP does not have. Also, the HT helps a lot if you're encoding in the background and don't want your foreground apps lagging.

Yeah, I'm only going with Intel because that's the "tried and true" where I come from and many people have reported phantom problems with AMD. You have me somewhat worried about the new 64 bit age that's a little closer than I had thought but I'm sure it's no big deal. I'm usually the last to upgrade their OS (I'm using Win2000 as I type) and the N64 used a 64 bit processor... A larger integer is rarely a big deal. I do "plan" to do video editing and DVD authoring but I plan to do a lot of things... that never seem to happen, so I wouldn't take this claim too seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaven

As for the chassis, the best suggestion I can make is to go with something time-tested and sure to deliver. I got myself a <a href="http://www.antec-inc.com/Search.bok?category=Enclosures"> PlusView 1000 AMG</a> enclosure, and married it with an Antec Tru380 380W power suply. The chassis is built like a tank, and has plenty of space inside for all your peripherals. As far as power supplies, the only ones I trust are from Antec. I have an Atec Tru380 PSU in my system, and it has delivered clean, reliable power for several years now.

It does look like everything the P160 is except not aluminum but (and, as a man, I'm embarrrassed to say this) it really is ugly. This is one of those situations where I have to honestly ask myself how much money is fashion worth to me. Do I just get something that works or do I get something that also pleases me, aesthetically. I don't like the weird intake vents. They look like the gills of a shark and kind of disturb me. I like really plain looking cases. Something that sits on the floor and is easily forgotten. The P160 isn't exactly this but it has so many other nice features and no creepy gills. As I said, I'm really open to suggestions on this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaven

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for as far as monitoring power usage, but most (if not all) motherboards have onboard sensors to report the current voltages on the board. I'm not really sure what the benefit of knowing how many watts of power you're using would be, aside from the "bells and whistles" factor.

I'm a bit of an environmentalist, so I don't like using more power than I have to. I'd like to know how much power my computer is using and how much less energy it uses when the hard drives power down or when the processor sleeps, and whatnot. It's also a pretty geeky bell or whistle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaven

Well that's a lot to digest...no matter what you decide on building, just make sure you have fun with it!!

I like this attitude! In fact, this is the very first computer I'm putting together, myself! Thanks for the sentiment...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I'd save money and buy an "old fashioned" AGP/PCI mobo instead of the LGA 775. That much for a motherboard is insane. PCI-E isn't useful yet and LGA requires DDR2 memory on most boards.

But PCI-E will be useful soon, won't it? I'm kind of hoping this computer will last me the next four years, considering this dual P3 800MHz system has lasted me about that long and it still works fine! My reasons for getting a new computer are subtle but numerous, sort of like Adobe's reasons for dropping Mac support for Premiere Pro.
Also, what's wrong with DDR2? Is it no better than DDR? I really think the performance bottle neck on computers these days is the RAM. I mean, the fact that my P4 2GHz system at work is no more responsive than my P3 800MHz system at home is really dumb...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

The processor is fine, but I'd get a Socket 478 version and possibly the 3.4 GHz Northwood. That processor won't need upgrading for years.

If that's true, then surely a 3.0GHz system won't need upgrading for about as long, right? I mean, it's only 13% difference. Besides, you know what I think of processor speed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

What's the deal with the shitcan videocard!? If you're gonna get 1 GB of RAM and a super fast processor, the only obvious thing to do is to get a blazing fast videocard (unless you're not gonna play videogames at all). If you are gonna play games, I'll recommend some videocards later!

It's funny you should ask, because skaven had asked:

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaven

Finally, are you planning on doing any gaming with this rig? Remember that most games depend more on a good video card than they do a fast processor.

In fact, I don't plan to do any gaming on my computer, at all. I'm more likely to play Gish than I am something like Half Life 2. I was surprised that the cheapest PCI-E video card I could find had TV/out. Maybe I can watch my anime fansubs on my TV!

littlebighead · 10-18-2004, 01:45 AM

If you're going to spend that much money, I suggest upgrading to an LCD display, if you don't already have one.

Also, is noise an issue at all? I hate noisy machines, so much so that I go through a lot of trouble to buy silent PSUs, huge passive heat sinks, and silent fans. Just a thought.

yster · 10-18-2004, 02:01 AM

LCDs are very nice, but remember, it won't look very good unless it runs in its native resolution (likely 1600x1200), especially in games. So unless you can comfortably run whatever you are running (Doom3, HL2, whatever) at full res all the time, you might want to consider a CRT.

pottsynz · 10-18-2004, 02:12 AM

Those "phantom problems" with AMDs are usually down to crappy mobo chipsets. Go with a Gigabyte and you'll be set

Antrocka83 · 10-18-2004, 05:15 AM

Those speakers are nice, but if you have a bookshelf stereo nearby, just go get a y-adapter from a Radio Shack like store and hook up to the AUX in the back of the stereo. Saves on buying speakers and sound is MASSIVELY better.

On the whole LCD screen issue, they still look good in the 800x600 res(which the program at my job runs at) but it is expensive for a PC you say you are trying to do with a "Small budget". CRTs are much better unless you plan on gaming or want to watch TV through your PC.(TV outs off of the video card).

Lasereth · 10-18-2004, 02:27 PM

If you're not gonna game then I'll still suggest buying a Socket 478 board with a Socket 478 P4 with an AGP videocard. It's simply overkill for what you're using it for. PCI-E is a damn waste of money right now. The best videocards on the market aren't even out in PCI-E yet...only AGP. It'll be a year or two before PCI-E is worth a crap so you may as well save money now! With the applications you're gonna use the PC for you won't need to upgrade for years. Make sure you have over 512 MB of RAM and the processor you want and you'll be set.

-Lasereth

10-17-2004, 04:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
KnifeMissile Location: Waterloo, Ontario	I'm upgrading my computer and I would like some opinions... I, too, am upgrading my system... by buying an entirely new one! I have no real budget, since I have a full time job, but I have very particular needs (actually, I'm just picky). I'm buying all my parts from Canada Computers since they seem to have good prices and a store is just down the street from me. So, this is what I plan to get: Asus P5AD2 Deluxe motherboard, for Intel 925X chipset (socket LGA775) - $311.00 Coarsair 512MB RAM, 533MHz DDR2 240pins - 2x $188.00 Sapphire Radeon X300SE graphics card - $89.00 Intel P4-HT 3.0GHz CPU, 1MB L2 cache, 800Mhz FSB (socket LGA775) - $247.00 WD CaviarSE HD, 200GB S-ATA - $144.00 Pioneer DVR 108, 16x DVD+/- RW Dual - $113.00 Antec P160 aluminum enclosure - $155.00 Thermaltake Silent PurePower PSU, 480W - $99.00 Creative Labs I-Trigue 2.1 speaker system - $99.00 Which comes to a grand total of $1633 CAD, not including tax. Dell can put something similar together for less money except that they will force me to buy a load of crappy software that I don't want. I'm not really comfortable spending that much on a case and power supply but I can't find anything that's both nice and inexpensive. In particular, it would be nice if I could find a case like the Antec P160 without it having to be aluminum, a feature that doesn't much concern me. What concerns me is that my enclosure is more expensive than my video card! I also wanted one of those fancy PSUs that display exactly how much power is being used but my store doesn't seem to sell one. Also, I have this fear that it will pretty much read the same amount of power regardless of what my computer is doing--which would be good to know but kind of embarrassing. Perhaps there's a generic device I can get to do this? It would be nice to include my monitor's power usage too! Anyway, any advice? All comments are welcome! Thanks... Last edited by KnifeMissile; 10-17-2004 at 08:28 PM..

10-17-2004, 06:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I'd save money and buy an "old fashioned" AGP/PCI mobo instead of the LGA 775. That much for a motherboard is insane. PCI-E isn't useful yet and LGA requires DDR2 memory on most boards. The processor is fine, but I'd get a Socket 478 version and possibly the 3.4 GHz Northwood. That processor won't need upgrading for years. What's the deal with the shitcan videocard!? If you're gonna get 1 GB of RAM and a super fast processor, the only obvious thing to do is to get a blazing fast videocard (unless you're not gonna play videogames at all). If you are gonna play games, I'll recommend some videocards later! Everything else looks fine! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

10-18-2004, 05:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
Antrocka83 Upright Location: Stamford, CT	Those speakers are nice, but if you have a bookshelf stereo nearby, just go get a y-adapter from a Radio Shack like store and hook up to the AUX in the back of the stereo. Saves on buying speakers and sound is MASSIVELY better. On the whole LCD screen issue, they still look good in the 800x600 res(which the program at my job runs at) but it is expensive for a PC you say you are trying to do with a "Small budget". CRTs are much better unless you plan on gaming or want to watch TV through your PC.(TV outs off of the video card). __________________ Anthony T. Townes Victim of the Glass Ceiling

10-18-2004, 02:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	If you're not gonna game then I'll still suggest buying a Socket 478 board with a Socket 478 P4 with an AGP videocard. It's simply overkill for what you're using it for. PCI-E is a damn waste of money right now. The best videocards on the market aren't even out in PCI-E yet...only AGP. It'll be a year or two before PCI-E is worth a crap so you may as well save money now! With the applications you're gonna use the PC for you won't need to upgrade for years. Make sure you have over 512 MB of RAM and the processor you want and you'll be set. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

10-17-2004, 05:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
skaven Insane Location: Austin, TX	Looks like you've thought it out quite a bit -- a couple suggestions (disclaimer: I work for AMD...) If you're OK with spending CAD$1600 on a new system, I think you would get much better performance for your dollar going with an Athlon XP-based system. You can get an Asus A7N8X deluxe motherboardm (has sATA support), an Athlon XP 3200+ (barton core) processor, and 1G of Corsair XMS low-latency memory for just US$500. That leaves a TON of headroom for, say, a fancy schmancy video card, or a cool surround-sound system. As far as performance, the P4 HT 3Ghz chip on a DDR2 platform may score better in the benchmarks, but not so much that you'd notice, especially considering the extra money you're spending on the Intel platform. Another suggestion (though ones that's probably more expensive than what you've listed), is to go with an AMD Athlon64 solution. Not only do the Athlon64 processors leave most Intel processors behind, you won't have to worry about upgrading your CPU/motherboard when the 64-bit edition of Windows comes out. Just load it up and you're good to go. Since Intel's 64-bit implementation is actually copied from AMD's, chances are Intel's will actually be buggier than AMD's in the new 64-bit apps. The one caveat to this suggestion is if you're planning on using this rig to do a lot of video encoding (the DVD recorder might indicate this). In that case, the P4's simply put the Athlon in the dust. This is mostly due to most encoders supporting the P4's SSE-2 extensions, which the Athlon-XP does not have. Also, the HT helps a lot if you're encoding in the background and don't want your foreground apps lagging. As for the chassis, the best suggestion I can make is to go with something time-tested and sure to deliver. I got myself a <a href="http://www.antec-inc.com/Search.bok?category=Enclosures"> PlusView 1000 AMG</a> enclosure, and married it with an Antec Tru380 380W power suply. The chassis is built like a tank, and has plenty of space inside for all your peripherals. As far as power supplies, the only ones I trust are from Antec. I have an Atec Tru380 PSU in my system, and it has delivered clean, reliable power for several years now. I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for as far as monitoring power usage, but most (if not all) motherboards have onboard sensors to report the current voltages on the board. I'm not really sure what the benefit of knowing how many watts of power you're using would be, aside from the "bells and whistles" factor. Finally, are you planning on doing any gaming with this rig? Remember that most games depend more on a good video card than they do a fast processor. Well that's a lot to digest...no matter what you decide on building, just make sure you have fun with it!!

10-17-2004, 08:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Almo Tilted	The pioneer drive is $110 btw, and is a very good drive. That or the NEC 3500A.

10-18-2004, 01:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
littlebighead Upright Location: Berkeley, CA	If you're going to spend that much money, I suggest upgrading to an LCD display, if you don't already have one. Also, is noise an issue at all? I hate noisy machines, so much so that I go through a lot of trouble to buy silent PSUs, huge passive heat sinks, and silent fans. Just a thought.

10-18-2004, 02:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
yster Tilted	LCDs are very nice, but remember, it won't look very good unless it runs in its native resolution (likely 1600x1200), especially in games. So unless you can comfortably run whatever you are running (Doom3, HL2, whatever) at full res all the time, you might want to consider a CRT.

10-18-2004, 02:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
pottsynz Crazy	Those "phantom problems" with AMDs are usually down to crappy mobo chipsets. Go with a Gigabyte and you'll be set