Mondak

I am going to build a PC for an artist friend we know and as some of you know, I am mostly a novice at this type of thing. There are a few of you on this board that that really know your stuff and I was wondering if you would be interested in helping out. I will be as specific as possible here.

1. Assume the computer is being built completly from scratch.

2. This is not a gaming PC, but it does need to be very capable. It will regularly be working with large image files. Think about what size file a 8MP camera would take and that is what you are looking at. I think the files start out at 11MB if I am not mistaken. Primarily, applications like Photoshop are used. Occasionally, Office and that sort of thing as well. Maybe layout programs like Pagemaker as well. I suppose the other thing they may do is some web design (basic) and email. Not really any video or flash or anything that moves to speak of.

3. Money IS an object. I am building the PC for free for them and they don't have a lot of cash as artists. They don't need anything bleeding edge here. Reliability and bang for the buck is KEY.

4. I was going to use NewEgg for this purchase and the local Fry's for anything I forget. If you can find it there and copy the link, cool. If you have something that is so super cool or a better place to get this stuff great too.

Suggestions needed most on:

- Good, fast, reliable ATX MB. 4 ram slots?
- Processor - think cheap here. I have only used Intel in the past, but really performace / dollars trumps. If you start talking O/C ing here, don't bother. I am not that smart and they don't want problems.
- Video Card - This is tough for me believe it or not. Since games do not matter, Lasereth's guide is a bit out of place. It would be cool if it had dual DVI output to support two DVI LCDs. Dual output is key though if it is one DVI one Analog (RGB? - whatever) then maybe.
- LCD Screen (DVI is a must in my book) - Two routes on this one.
1. It would be really cool to find 2 good, cheap 17 inch monitors here. Since video / gaming is not important, I assume response time is not as key. What I am looking for is a nice, bright, monitor with a small dot pitch that does a good job representing colors. If I can afford two of these, small bezels would help with the side-by-side config.
2. I suppose if budget does not allow it, maybe one 19"+ would do here, but it seems that they just make the dots bigger in most larger monitors so the 19"+ ones tend to be the same resolution as the 17". Suggesting both would be fine. Suggesting a resource for unbiased monitor reviews (not Tom's since it is somewhat gaming focused) would be fine instead.



I think I can find this stuff on my own, but this is the rest.

- Non-flashy, functional ATX case. (no neon green alien stuff here - something that would not be out of place in a hardwood floor studio. Does not have to be beautiful - black / silver would be fine) If it has built in fans that are quiet fine. If not I can add fans. Quiet and cheap fan suggestions are welcome. Powersupply suggestion if not included.
- I think at least 1GB of Ram. I would love to do 1.5 - 2GB, if we save enough in other areas. If not, an easy add on later.
- DVD Burner (if this thing doesn't have SW for it, suggestions there as well)
- Standard CD Drive
- HD Maybe a nice 120 GB reliable one.
- Floppy - I am going to try and talk him out of this.
- Other things you can think of



Thanks a lot for the help everyone in advance. Oh yeah - well this is the site of the people I am building it for.

http://www.dancingbrush.com/

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ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Paq

Ok..i can't help much except for these few options
1. 1GB of ram..minimum. I use raw files from a 6MP camera and tiffs regularly top 100MB.

2. sata hard drive(s), the 150MB transfer is definitely noticeable. I just bought an SATA to go with my ATA 133 and it is sooo much faster, smaller and easier to install. Cost is about $10 over normal.

3. I HATE, DETEST, DEPLORE, DE whatever LCD's for art uses. The dot pitch is annoying, the colors are rarely ever correct and you can't really profile them...the other problem is that i can get 2 19" CRT monitors for the cost of 1 decent 17" LCD

4. if he's gonna be using CF of SD cards, i'd definitely forgo the floppy drive adn get a $15 card media reader. 7 in one slots are GREAT and the transfer time is USB 2.0 standard, so much faster than what most cameras' transfer speeds. You can also boot from mine, so it serves as a nice floppy replacement

5. DVD burner...look for something with a rebate in the $50 range. Dell just had one up for grabs tha has all the software, etc. I prefer CD-R's for cost, though, and they last jsut as long.

6. Look around newegg's site for a cheap/decent case/psu. I bought a very cheap one and am quite happy for it. I put a limit of $50 on it for me, but i ended up spending $38 for one with a 400 watt psu and two side fans.

7. again, newegg has great fans, just get 80mm for a few bucks each with price breaks...it's actualy cheaper to get 10 than it is to get 3...

8. as for a vid card, i'd think a 9200SE for about $80 would be totally fine. not sure if it has dual outs, though, so you may want to look for one that does.

that's about ti for right now that i can think of. I built my computer last feb for about $800 with dual monitors, a 9800 pro, 5.1 logitech speakers, dvd/cdrw combo drive, 2.8 PIV with 800 FSB, 512MB pc3200 ram,and 80GB hard drive running winxp and it works amazingly well with photoshop for large files. You could save over $100 off the vid card, another $60 on the speakers, and monitors are cheaper now....as is ram, the hard drive,a nd processor.

soo, how inexpensive are you shooting ?

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Dragonlich

Generally speaking, you need processing power to do the photoshop filters quickly, but any will do the trick eventually. Celerons (the new D-variant) are a *bit* more attractive than new AMD Semprons. Athlon XP's kick their collective arses.

The main thing with photoshop is memory - you need as much as you can (1 gig), but it'll *still* want more.

Go for a good-sized harddisk. 80 gigs is only slightly more expensive than 40, the prices only go up a lot after 200 gigs. but those are all HUGE for storing photos.

The videocard: go for a low-cost geforce FX (or medium-cost ati), NOT a 9200 if possible. I've had reports of the image quality being really bad on 9200's. There are low-cost cards with dual DVI (Asus 9520/VS for example). Or you could go for a Matrox card - good quality 2D, but kinda expensive.

Monitors: Paq is right about the monitors - TFT is expensive, way more expensive than CRTs. For color quality, a TFT simply can't compare to a CRT yet, although a good high contrast ratio (600:1 or higher) could do the trick for you. DVI is pretty much irrelevant unless you pay only a bit more for it.

Something you might also want to think about: noise levels - methinks it's kinda hard to concentrate and be artsy with a jet engine running next to you. There are (more) silent alternatives for CPU coolers, as well as harddisks, videocards and PSUs.

Also, I assume you thought about the (Wacom) Tablet for editing the pics?

CHollman82

Basically a high end gaming PC and a multimedia PC for photo/video editing and whatnot should really be built about the same, if not adding "more x and faster y" to the video editing box

Paq

That's about what i was thinking...the only thing is that you don't need a high end graphics card, but do need a dedicated graphics card..ie, no onboard video...and make sure it has dual outs unless you want to go through the extra expense of a PCI and AGP card.

ATI's new drivers finally allow different resolutions for each monitor. Nvidia's has always done that, i believe...

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Lasereth

What's the price range?

If he's an artist, he'll need three things that other PC's do not necessarily need: lots of RAM, a high-clock speed CPU, and a large hard drive. I suggest at least a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 or higher if you can afford it. Intel processors are better than AMD's concerning video and image editing/creation. The higher clock speed will yield better results than a lower-clock speed AMD processor. The PC will also need a lot of RAM. I'd get at least 768 MB, and preferably 1 GB if he's gonna be dealing with big image files. More than 1 GB is fine if you can afford it. A 120 GB sounds good. Make sure it's 7200 RPM with an 8 MB cache. If it's not gonna be for gaming, I suggest going to NewEgg.com and simply searching for any videocard that has the features you want. I can't really be more specific unless we have a price range...so if ya can post that then it will narrow down a lot of features.

-Lasereth

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sailor

1) Lots of RAM. Start with a gig, if they need more, put more in.
2) Fast processor. I too would say P4. An AMD would give you more bang for the buck, but youd probably get more out of a P4 for what they are going to use it for. At least 2.4, but preferably faster. Maybe 2.8? Thats probably a sweet spot, but I dont follow CPU prices, so dont quote me on that.
3) HDD space. Like you said, they take a lot of space.
4) DVD burner. Backup. If it isnt in two places, it isnt important to you. Tell them to back up EVERYTHING of value. Hard drives die, and when they do, tough. Make sure things are backed up to DVDs and life will be good.

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Mondak

Lasereth, Sailor, Dragonlich, Paq, and CHollman82. Good advice. I will stick with the P4 and put AMD out unless I find a way better deal on one with a faster clock. I will hit Firewire for sure and go with the Card reader. I just put one on my machine the other day and it is handy.

Paq, thanks a lot on the SATA advice. I did not know anything about that. Anything special I have to do when I choose a Motherboard then I assume? I like what you said about LCDs, but it sure would be nice space-wise on their desk. There is not a lot of room in the studio where this thing will sit and judging from the POS CRT that in on their desk today, maybe I will go against you, but concentrate on dotpitch. I am a big believer in LCD as long as you don't judge them on size of the screen and truely focus on the display quality. I will look into that deal on the fans. Never knew and you can always use new ones.

I will be sure to get lots of RAM no problem. I will shoot for at least PC3200, but any thoughts on minimum speeds there may be educational. For me.

The last thing for now is educating myself further on LCD monitor offerings. Things like Tom talk a lot about refresh rates. I am looking to make sure pixel pitch is low and color quality is true.

I am still working on budget with them. I will know for sure at the end of the week. I wil revisit this thread with my progress as I imagine this will be done over the next month or so.

Thanks again everyone. Anything else you think of is welcome!

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Paq

i can honestly say i am TOTALLY happy with the abit IS7 mobo. It supports the newer pentium IV C (?) processors as well as the older p4's. I have it with a PIV 2.8 ghz running 800 FSB. It's incredibly stable and has overclocking features if needed or just supports higher processors...whatever floats your boat. It also has enough room for up to 4GB of ram if you can afford it and has 2 SATA connections, the only bad part is that you have to remove the vid card to physically install the ram, so put all hte ram you want in first

also, bios updates are automatic when running the updating program...and it's under $100

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Dragonlich

I'd have to disagree a bit with Paq on his SATA advice. You generally do not notice the difference, unless it's a harddisk that's been *designed* for SATA like the WD Raptor, and the new Maxtor 16 MB buffer disks. Harddisk speeds also aren't *that* big a deal when working with pictures. If the price difference is small, it's worth the extra money, if it's going to cost you a lot more, don't bother.

(Oh, and I can recommend the Asus P4P800 Deluxe for features and stability. It does the same (and more) as Paq's mobo)

gcbrowni

SATA has the additional problems of getting the drivers going during the install. Honestly, I would skip it. If you drop the floppy then you'll have to get a loaner for the XP install. They can also cause problems if you go to something like linux; not all distros support SATA yet.

You might look at the Matrox G640 line. I think they have two outputs.

Color reproduction is almost always 'better' on a CRT. Most serious artists prefer CRT, last I heard.

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Paq

it was just a suggestion as my sata loads my image files about 10 seconds faster than my ATA 133 hd...then again, ymmv, i guess it's not a big deal either way as most hd's are fast enough.

I will agree that the drivers are sometimes a pain, but mine loaded fairly easily after i found the stupid add hard drive thingie

And I'll still stick by the CRT over LCD. The ONLY LCD i've ever seen in a designer's office costed about $15K to get the resolution and color rendition that was close to what a normal CRT does anyway....plus, you don't have to worry about 'native resolutions' recycle times, etc. I mainly say LCDs are best for text or possibly gaming if they are high end enough. I just don't think it would be justified in a budget system.

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theburner

Watch newegg for specials. Over the last couple of weeks I have seen 3.2E procs for $200 or so, and IC7-G mobo's for $120. I have built 4 systems this year, all had IC7 series mobo's. The IC7-Max 3 can actually handle up to 6 SATA HDD's I believe, which is PLENTY of storage even using RAID 1. (ALL of the SATA ports on the IC7-Max 3 have RAID Controllers, so you could set up 2 RAID 1 groups (file storage and boot disks) and one RAID 0 for media manipulation.

Just make sure to get a shiatload of fans..

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Paq

don't forget to watch www.slickdeals.net for specials. I recently purchased a 200GB sata hd for $100, a DVD+-R/RW drive for $50, a printer/copier/fax for $30 down from $130 bc of rebates from slickdeals.


also, the IC7 mobo is amazing as well. I like any of the abit mobos, really..

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Redjake

check out www.techbargains.com as well, does basically the same thing.

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tspikes51

One hint when building a new PC: If you are going to get a new one within 4 years, don't worry about getting the most expensive, fastest processor, because most likely, your BUS and other hardware won't even use it. I'd suggest the lowest-speed Pentium 4 with Hyper Thread. Just load up on RAM and make sure you get a decent motherboard that can support high bus speeds.

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tspikes51

Oh, and for video editing, I can't stress this enough: GET AS MUCH RAM AS YOUR COMP CAN HOLD. Otherwise, you will have a lot of greif over losing files to lockups of your editing program when you do high-end effects with files of considerable size. I worked on editing machines with 1+ GB of ram, and I still experienced crashes aplenty.

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-Maddox

shadowalker

if going sata for your hdd i would say get the WD raptor drives, sure there not HUGE on the amount of data you can store, but if you raid them, You will loading your 100 meg+ files quickly. I got 2 of there 74 gig drives and thay are running at 10k rpm's and give a transfer of the 150 as stated in the frist post and only have a lantancy (Sp) of 2.9 ms. I love them and will never give it up.

Again as much ram as you can afford to drop in it. (no question there when working with images)

As for a graphic card. A NVIDIA Quadro FX will do you wonders (not for gameing)

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Paq

doh
totally forgot, great reason to go intel over amd...800mhz FSB with hyperthreading. you gotta use winxp, i believe, but it totally makes a difference in photoshop...hence, i love my 2.8ghz though now i'm sure youc ould get a faster proc for the same price, about $185 at most

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