Explain to a n00b why XP doesn't want to let me network. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MooseMan3000 · 06-28-2004, 05:15 PM

Alright, so I have two PCs at my house, both running XP Home. They are both connected to a Netgear 4 port hub, which is in turn connected directly to the cable modem.

The hub.

I've tried running the network setup Wizard, and I can't find any other way to set up the network (I could do it in 98 or 2k without TOO much trouble, but I can't seem to find a way to manually change things... only through that dumbass wizard.)

Anyway, this is as far as I've gotten. On my PC, PC A, I can see both this PC and the other on MSHOME. On the other PC, PC B, I'm not allowed to view MSHOME, because I don't have access (though I thought I set it to let other computers on the local network have full acess, I may not have). While PC A sees both A and B on the network, it cannot find PC B when I try to access it. i.e., when I go to my workgroup, PC B shows up, but when I try to explore it, it says "\\PC B is not accessible. You may not have permission to access this network resource... the network path was not found."

Now hold your horses. I thought PC B didn't have access, not the other way around. The only thing I can think of that a firewall is blocking me. PC A has the built in XP firewall running, but I've opened several of the ports. PC B has both a McAffee Personal Firewall and XP Firewall, though again I've changed ports. Are there specific ports I should open (or can I specify them) for the network to allow me access? Or is there another problem entirely?

Oh, and the main reason I want to get this to work: I'm trying to LAN with my little sister, to show her how to play a few games, but when either computer is running a server, the other won't recognize that there's a LAN server up.

Redjake · 06-28-2004, 05:19 PM

Can't think of much to help you. Although, if you have a cable modem, and a hub, I have to suggest purchasing a router

This is why I hate XP Home. The networking is so annoying!

Bamrak · 06-28-2004, 06:27 PM

Try disabling the firewall in both and see if the network works, if it does reinstate one firewall, rinse repeat. I don't think it is the networking since you can SEE the other pc in the MSHOME group. To me that means the network is working but possibly the permissions aren't taking, aren't correct, or that the firewalls are preventing the requests e.g. "the network path was not found".

Cocktopus · 06-28-2004, 06:27 PM

xp "pro" allows you to turn off "simple file sharing" in folder options. that gives you w2k like network control.

id get rid of the hub, use a router/firewall($20-30), and ditch windows and mcaffee firewall. i'm pretty sure with your current config, opening ports for sharing (netbui..) will make you easy pickins for blackhats.

bacon_masta · 06-28-2004, 06:42 PM

i don't have too much experience with xp home, but with xp pro, you can go to control panel/network connections, right click, go to properties, and view the protocols you have installed. with a similar networking problem i installed the nwlink ipx/spx/netbios compatible transport protocol, and then ran the filesharing/networking wizard. with the xp firewall disabled, i didn't have any more problems. this is a security vulnerability in any version of xp, just to warn you. hope this helps

Jeff · 06-28-2004, 08:03 PM

I had extreme difficulty networking with XP home. I just gave up on it.

Jesus Pimp · 06-28-2004, 08:50 PM

I highly recommend getting XP Pro. It has a lot less headaches. I've networked my Xbox and Powerbook to my PC with no trouble. It rocks!

mikec · 06-29-2004, 05:02 AM

the firewall's causing your problems. it would cause the same problems in XP pro as well. Not sure which ports to open, I usually just disable the focker and let a hardware router handle firewall duties from the WAN. pick up a linksys or something for 60 bucks, port forward for your games and kill that firewall.

theburner · 06-29-2004, 08:27 AM

Roger on MikeC's advice.. I used to run SW Firewalls until I started networking. Just bought myself a refurb Cisco Hub/Firewall and let that handle everything.
Additionally, XP Home doesn't load printer and file sharing in the default load. You have to manually make Windoze load it.
Go to view network connections, right click on the card you are using to network. I can't remember what option you have to click install on, but it brings up the File and Network sharing module to install. I have home on all 3 of my networked computers and share files just fine.
Pro installs all of this automatically, that is why you find lot's of Pro Fanboys.

(No insult intended to the above Pro Fans)

dieseldog · 06-29-2004, 05:34 PM

I don't know if this is your problem or not, but unless your cable provider specifically says that you are allowed multiple internet IP addresses, you will need to install a router.

If both computers are connected to a plain hub, which in turn is connected to the cable modem, then the two computers will try to get IP internet IP addresses from your cable provider's DHCP server. If your account only includes one IP (as most cable accounts do), then there will be problems.

When you use a router, it's different. The router is assigned the internet IP address, and the computers "behind" the router are each then given a local IP address, i.e. 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101.

I'd recommend getting a router. You get increased security and you can connect however many computers you want to your connection.

shakran · 06-29-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MooseMan3000
Alright, so I have two PCs at my house, both running XP Home.

And that is your problem. I run win2k and XP pro on my systems and don't have any problem. A friend of mine tried to get an XP home machine to talk to her network. I dicked around with it for 4 days and never could get it to behave. XP Home SUCKS. Period! Windows 3.1 would be an upgrade! Get somethin' different bud.

Kadath · 06-29-2004, 06:08 PM

Ask Elitegibson. He is all about XP Home and will give you the hookup. All you people who hate XP Home, you are fools, and he will tell you so, just like he told me! I thought I knew my business, but I was wrong. Elitegibson showed me the error of my ways! Lordy lordy, I have seen the light!

shakran · 06-29-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Ask Elitegibson. He is all about XP Home and will give you the hookup. All you people who hate XP Home, you are fools, and he will tell you so, just like he told me! I thought I knew my business, but I was wrong. Elitegibson showed me the error of my ways! Lordy lordy, I have seen the light!

O. . . . K. . . .

How long do they let you out each day?

Bamrak · 06-29-2004, 06:31 PM

Kadath,
uuh.. care to contribute something to this thread besides the childish comments that should have been left in the OTHER topic about this?

All I see is people saying XP home sucks compared to PRO. I listed the differences in the other thread, but noone bothered to even mention them.

Someone care to explain why the networking sucks in home and they should run out and buy a whole new OS when they have a perfectly functioning OS? It isn't windows ME.

I mean I wouldn't consider he's having issues because he has his firewall turned on on one pc... or that he's trying to share an internet connection through a hub and not a router that would allow both an internal and an external IP.

I've not encountered a home network where XP home was unable to work where pro would unless we are discussing Client/Server. This is my third personal network from scratch with home before I upgraded to Pro.. So far the only difference I see is the OS boot screen.

shakran · 06-29-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bamrak

Someone care to explain why the networking sucks in home and they should run out and buy a whole new OS when they have a perfectly functioning OS? It isn't windows ME.

I thought I did that, but I'll be more specific. This girl had an XP-H laptop, a win2k laptop, a win2kpro desktop, an XP-Pro desktop, and a Win98 desktop, all connected via a belkin wireless router.

The ONLY computer that wouldn't talk to the network was the XP-H laptop. It wouldn't play nice on wireless or cabled. I worked with it for 4 days (and I've set up a LOT of networks) but it just wouldn't talk. I finally threw XP-Pro on it and 5 minutes after the install it was on the network happy as a clam.

intecel · 06-29-2004, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dieseldog
I don't know if this is your problem or not, but unless your cable provider specifically says that you are allowed multiple internet IP addresses, you will need to install a router.

If both computers are connected to a plain hub, which in turn is connected to the cable modem, then the two computers will try to get IP internet IP addresses from your cable provider's DHCP server. If your account only includes one IP (as most cable accounts do), then there will be problems.

This is somewhat incorrect... If you are on cable or dsl, then tcp/ip will get an IP from the dhcp server or be static. You will want to turn off Netbios access over tcp/ip...

If you install the netbeui protocol (located on the windows xp cd) on both comptuers, you should have no problems. You may want to disable the XP firewall on both computers though.

The great thing about netbuei is that there is no configuration needed. Also, it is non-routable, so if you have netbios disabled on TCP/IP, you can still fileshare with netbios without worrying about someone accessing your computer across the internet.

I use a plain old hub right now. I have 3 computers connected to the hub this way. I get my IPs from DHCP and I do all my filesharing thru netbeui....

The reason I do this is because I get 3mb download speeds on all 3 of my computers at the same time. If I was to hook into a router, then I would have to share 3 mb with all of my computers.

MooseMan3000 · 06-29-2004, 08:56 PM

Update. I fucked around with it a while more, and I finally got it to work after all the firewalls were disabled, THEN I reconifigured it a few more times (it didn't work as soon as I turned them off, oh no... that'd be too easy). Unfortunately, there are two major problems as the network is now: first, no firewall of any sort. No good.

Second, the reason I was setting up the network in the first place, to play games with my sister, STILL doesn't work. When this PC hosts, the other one can see it, but it can't connect, because the game is restricted to Class 3 clients. When the other hosts, this one doesn't even see it (on a LAN).

This leads me to believe that the IP addresses assigned by my cable company (dynamic) are fooling the computers into thinking that this one is on a LAN, but the other one is not local. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about this to fix it. Any suggestions? What I was thinking of trying was manually setting IPs in a certain range, but I don't know how to do that, and I don't know if I could do that with my internet connection. Any help guys?

And I know I should buy XP Pro. And I know I should buy a router. But I'm in college (read: poor). Stop taunting me.

Bamrak · 06-30-2004, 02:18 AM

Moose, why not host them as an internet game and connect that way instead of a LAN? You'll still get low pings and shouldn't see much difference in performance if any at all.

Are you getting different ips for each pc, or are they sharing the same ip?

06-28-2004, 05:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
MooseMan3000 wouldn't mind being a ninja. Location: Maine, the Other White State.	Explain to a n00b why XP doesn't want to let me network. Alright, so I have two PCs at my house, both running XP Home. They are both connected to a Netgear 4 port hub, which is in turn connected directly to the cable modem. The hub. I've tried running the network setup Wizard, and I can't find any other way to set up the network (I could do it in 98 or 2k without TOO much trouble, but I can't seem to find a way to manually change things... only through that dumbass wizard.) Anyway, this is as far as I've gotten. On my PC, PC A, I can see both this PC and the other on MSHOME. On the other PC, PC B, I'm not allowed to view MSHOME, because I don't have access (though I thought I set it to let other computers on the local network have full acess, I may not have). While PC A sees both A and B on the network, it cannot find PC B when I try to access it. i.e., when I go to my workgroup, PC B shows up, but when I try to explore it, it says "\\PC B is not accessible. You may not have permission to access this network resource... the network path was not found." Now hold your horses. I thought PC B didn't have access, not the other way around. The only thing I can think of that a firewall is blocking me. PC A has the built in XP firewall running, but I've opened several of the ports. PC B has both a McAffee Personal Firewall and XP Firewall, though again I've changed ports. Are there specific ports I should open (or can I specify them) for the network to allow me access? Or is there another problem entirely? Oh, and the main reason I want to get this to work: I'm trying to LAN with my little sister, to show her how to play a few games, but when either computer is running a server, the other won't recognize that there's a LAN server up.

06-28-2004, 05:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	Can't think of much to help you. Although, if you have a cable modem, and a hub, I have to suggest purchasing a router This is why I hate XP Home. The networking is so annoying! __________________ Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

06-28-2004, 08:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jeff And we'll all float on ok... Location: Iowa City	I had extreme difficulty networking with XP home. I just gave up on it. __________________ For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. --Charles Bukowski

06-28-2004, 08:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jesus Pimp The Original JizzSmacka	I highly recommend getting XP Pro. It has a lot less headaches. I've networked my Xbox and Powerbook to my PC with no trouble. It rocks! __________________ Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

06-29-2004, 05:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
mikec I flopped the nutz... Location: Stratford, CT	the firewall's causing your problems. it would cause the same problems in XP pro as well. Not sure which ports to open, I usually just disable the focker and let a hardware router handle firewall duties from the WAN. pick up a linksys or something for 60 bucks, port forward for your games and kill that firewall. __________________ Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see, and hear. Since the initial publication of the charted electromagnetic spectrum, humans have learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear is less than one millionth of reality

06-28-2004, 06:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bamrak Enter Title Here Location: Tennessee	Try disabling the firewall in both and see if the network works, if it does reinstate one firewall, rinse repeat. I don't think it is the networking since you can SEE the other pc in the MSHOME group. To me that means the network is working but possibly the permissions aren't taking, aren't correct, or that the firewalls are preventing the requests e.g. "the network path was not found".

06-28-2004, 06:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cocktopus Insane	xp "pro" allows you to turn off "simple file sharing" in folder options. that gives you w2k like network control. id get rid of the hub, use a router/firewall($20-30), and ditch windows and mcaffee firewall. i'm pretty sure with your current config, opening ports for sharing (netbui..) will make you easy pickins for blackhats.

06-28-2004, 06:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
bacon_masta Psycho Location: i live in the state of denial	i don't have too much experience with xp home, but with xp pro, you can go to control panel/network connections, right click, go to properties, and view the protocols you have installed. with a similar networking problem i installed the nwlink ipx/spx/netbios compatible transport protocol, and then ran the filesharing/networking wizard. with the xp firewall disabled, i didn't have any more problems. this is a security vulnerability in any version of xp, just to warn you. hope this helps

06-29-2004, 08:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
theburner Canadian Beer Ambassador Location: Cumming, GA	Roger on MikeC's advice.. I used to run SW Firewalls until I started networking. Just bought myself a refurb Cisco Hub/Firewall and let that handle everything. Additionally, XP Home doesn't load printer and file sharing in the default load. You have to manually make Windoze load it. Go to view network connections, right click on the card you are using to network. I can't remember what option you have to click install on, but it brings up the File and Network sharing module to install. I have home on all 3 of my networked computers and share files just fine. Pro installs all of this automatically, that is why you find lot's of Pro Fanboys. (No insult intended to the above Pro Fans) __________________ Take Off Eh!

06-29-2004, 05:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
dieseldog Upright	I don't know if this is your problem or not, but unless your cable provider specifically says that you are allowed multiple internet IP addresses, you will need to install a router. If both computers are connected to a plain hub, which in turn is connected to the cable modem, then the two computers will try to get IP internet IP addresses from your cable provider's DHCP server. If your account only includes one IP (as most cable accounts do), then there will be problems. When you use a router, it's different. The router is assigned the internet IP address, and the computers "behind" the router are each then given a local IP address, i.e. 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101. I'd recommend getting a router. You get increased security and you can connect however many computers you want to your connection.

06-29-2004, 06:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Ask Elitegibson. He is all about XP Home and will give you the hookup. All you people who hate XP Home, you are fools, and he will tell you so, just like he told me! I thought I knew my business, but I was wrong. Elitegibson showed me the error of my ways! Lordy lordy, I have seen the light! __________________ it's quiet in here

06-29-2004, 06:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bamrak Enter Title Here Location: Tennessee	Kadath, uuh.. care to contribute something to this thread besides the childish comments that should have been left in the OTHER topic about this? All I see is people saying XP home sucks compared to PRO. I listed the differences in the other thread, but noone bothered to even mention them. Someone care to explain why the networking sucks in home and they should run out and buy a whole new OS when they have a perfectly functioning OS? It isn't windows ME. I mean I wouldn't consider he's having issues because he has his firewall turned on on one pc... or that he's trying to share an internet connection through a hub and not a router that would allow both an internal and an external IP. I've not encountered a home network where XP home was unable to work where pro would unless we are discussing Client/Server. This is my third personal network from scratch with home before I upgraded to Pro.. So far the only difference I see is the OS boot screen.

06-29-2004, 08:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
MooseMan3000 wouldn't mind being a ninja. Location: Maine, the Other White State.	Update. I fucked around with it a while more, and I finally got it to work after all the firewalls were disabled, THEN I reconifigured it a few more times (it didn't work as soon as I turned them off, oh no... that'd be too easy). Unfortunately, there are two major problems as the network is now: first, no firewall of any sort. No good. Second, the reason I was setting up the network in the first place, to play games with my sister, STILL doesn't work. When this PC hosts, the other one can see it, but it can't connect, because the game is restricted to Class 3 clients. When the other hosts, this one doesn't even see it (on a LAN). This leads me to believe that the IP addresses assigned by my cable company (dynamic) are fooling the computers into thinking that this one is on a LAN, but the other one is not local. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about this to fix it. Any suggestions? What I was thinking of trying was manually setting IPs in a certain range, but I don't know how to do that, and I don't know if I could do that with my internet connection. Any help guys? And I know I should buy XP Pro. And I know I should buy a router. But I'm in college (read: poor). Stop taunting me.

06-30-2004, 02:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
Bamrak Enter Title Here Location: Tennessee	Moose, why not host them as an internet game and connect that way instead of a LAN? You'll still get low pings and shouldn't see much difference in performance if any at all. Are you getting different ips for each pc, or are they sharing the same ip?