[HTML] Frames in Dreamweaver question - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Slavakion · 04-17-2004, 09:15 AM

EDIT: If you're new to this thread, skip the first few posts. It's not about frames anymore, but about layers.

I'm in the process of changing my design over to one that uses a template. The problem is that it makes file sizes usually twice as big, and there are no frames(so the nav menu & borders have to be put into every page).

So I have two questions

1) Could I create frames so that there's one on top w/the nav menu, and then one below it with eerything else. But, I'd want it so that it would scroll normally(not stay static at the top).

2) Could I create one frame that has all of the borders, nav, etc. and then place a frame inside of it.

.

Thanks for any help, and sorry about the bad illustrations

Cuball · 04-18-2004, 05:58 AM

tried IFRAMES ?

first thing that comes to my mind .. could be wrong though

arch13 · 04-18-2004, 11:25 AM

no to the frame in frame.

But you can do everything you asked for here with layers in dreamweaver, and the coding is is easy to learn and understand (plus it helps push standards foreward)

Give it a go and see if it works better with layers.

Slavakion · 04-19-2004, 04:50 AM

Okay, thanks.

But how do you set a link to target a different layer? Or should I have the nav buttons on the same layer?

arch13 · 04-20-2004, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slavakion
Okay, thanks.

But how do you set a link to target a different layer? Or should I have the nav buttons on the same layer?

Us the behaviors panel in MX to set the actions links create for layers. Read the Help manual front to back or you'll be very frustrated. It takes some time to learn, but meets current W3 standards and is much cleaner when implamented than frames.

Slavakion · 04-21-2004, 05:01 PM

Okay, I'd use the "change property" behavior, right? And change the property of innerHTML? If so, I just need to know what to put into the "new value" field. It's probably just a case of syntax...

Do I use angle brackets? How do I reference it? Just like index.htm, or do I need <src>, <a href>...

Thanks, I think I'm almost there

EDIT: By the way, I'm not using MX, but Dreamweaver 4. Does that make a big difference?

Slavakion · 04-25-2004, 04:02 PM

arch13 · 04-25-2004, 05:29 PM

little busy right now, give me a day or two to answer in full (unless anyone else wants to in the meantime)

And get MX if you can. It has the current standards which is important.

Also, look at www.projectseven.com if you get a chance. They are majot devolpers of using layers in new ways and can give an idea of what you can really accomplish.

and a good intro tutorial here

Slavakion · 04-26-2004, 11:18 AM

I understand, arch. I'll try to muddle through it on my own until then, but thanks for the links. And as far as MX goes, it's on my BitTorrent list

Slavakion · 05-04-2004, 10:56 AM

Well, I got Dreamwever MX. How's your busy-ness (or would business work here?) going, arch?

arch13 · 05-05-2004, 12:41 PM

Well i was halfway through creating an example in dreamweaver for you, and found this in google

It's a really good example that explanes how to do what you seek. Simply create the nav menu at the top of the layer an inset table and make the nav menu have the same width and position as the layer. The browser will read the nav menu as part of the layer and scroll it when you follow these direction.

I've included three links here that will accomplish a scrolling layer:
http://www.dyn-web.com/dhtml/scroll/scroll-rel.html

http://www.dansteinman.com/dynduo/en...lconcepts.html

http://www.siteexperts.com/dhtmllib/...ller/page1.asp

My personal favorite tutorial is the last link, as it explans how to create the scrolling either through custom scroll bars or through standard IE/Mozilla scroll bars. (by the way, Mozilla now supports overflow, which will make sense when you read these.)

You can create the nav bar through images, tables, whatever.
Remeber that it's best to understand each layer as a mini page that can have it's own character. Thus you can insert images, tables, etc like you would into any page in dreamweaver.

Here's a quick and dirty example of scrolling layers made folling the third site instructions.

Slavakion · 05-06-2004, 05:54 PM

Thanks. I'll get moving on that tomorrow, which is good timing cuz it's the weekend. Sorry if I sounded impatient earlier, I wasn't expecting you to create something for me

trevry · 05-10-2004, 07:08 AM

You do NONE of the above and you use CSS and DIVS for your layout. It's much easier, it's also standards compliant and can be changed much easier than standard code. Do some research.

arch13 · 05-10-2004, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by trevry
You do NONE of the above and you use CSS and DIVS for your layout. It's much easier, it's also standards compliant and can be changed much easier than standard code. Do some research.

My boy, DIVS are a form of layers. Make an example of what you mean.

Slavakion · 05-10-2004, 12:29 PM

Just got a chance to look at some of the stuff you gave me: scrolling is great (and would have been my next question probably) but I need to know how to change the html source of a layer (so the layer changes, but not the rest of the page). Maybe I just missed it.

arch13 · 05-10-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slavakion
but I need to know how to change the html source of a layer (so the layer changes, but not the rest of the page). Maybe I just missed it.

The first question is the most obvious, can you use programing languages like php or asp with your host? Or at the very least shtml?

If yes, you can include the html and simply place a variable in the layer. Then make your links simply call that variable.
an example in php would be:

Code:

 <?php $ext = ".php";
$id = "".$id."".$ext."";
if (file_exists($id))
{
include($id);
} else {
include("main.php");
}?>

then my links on the page read as such:

Code:

http://risd.arch13.com/index.php?id=disclaimer

So that the link replaces the variable $id with the page being called. The pages being called, for example disclaimer, don't have to have {head} and {body} tags like an html page, only the html you actually want such as body text and image tags structured approriatly.

Can you give us an idea what your making? I'm begining to feel that layers may be overkill just becuase you wanted the full scroll.

Take a look here for an example of a setup that calls it's data dynamicly into a table (which could just as easly be a layer)

Slavakion · 05-11-2004, 11:01 AM

It's pretty much just a personal web site that I'm putting up for people to waste their time at. There's games, a forum, and interesting content (that's the plan, anyways). Layers may be overkill, but I only asked about them because I wanted to keep file size low to conserve bandwidth. In the unlikely possibility that I actually get visitors to my site. (I'm switching from a crappy design to a nice-looking template. At least twice the file size)

My current host is Topcities, and I'm not sure what they allow. The closest thing that I saw was PHP4 in the "premium" plan. But I'm guessing that that's different.

Oh, well. I have never used php before, so I guess I better get started.

arch13 · 05-11-2004, 02:15 PM

you sir, do not have any scripting languages or shtml availible to you. That essentially removes any ability to use a template system where the same host file calls information sets into a frame, table, or layer without a full reload.

In other words, you need to make each page manually since you can't use a template that loads info into it depending on the link clicked. If your going to upgrade, there are much better hosts for a similar price range. however, as this is just for fun, I say go at it making the pages yourself, use it as a chance to learn layers or div tables and full w3 html, and see what kind of traffic it attracts.

By the way, that example link for layers i gave in the first post now has an example added to it of showing and hiding layers using the "onclick" method. Check it out and see if it gives you any ideas of ways to make what you want. Just click on the link in the scrollable table,

Slavakion · 05-13-2004, 05:30 PM

Heh heh, so after all that, I have to make each page separately, which is what I tried to not do. This seems oddly amusing to me. Oh, well, I've got a lot on my plate right now, since my HD tried to commit seppuku on me and I now have it at factory settings. Thanks for all your help (well, kinda) arch

04-17-2004, 09:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	[HTML] Layers in Dreamweaver (changing html) EDIT: If you're new to this thread, skip the first few posts. It's not about frames anymore, but about layers. I'm in the process of changing my design over to one that uses a template. The problem is that it makes file sizes usually twice as big, and there are no frames(so the nav menu & borders have to be put into every page). So I have two questions 1) Could I create frames so that there's one on top w/the nav menu, and then one below it with eerything else. But, I'd want it so that it would scroll normally(not stay static at the top). 2) Could I create one frame that has all of the borders, nav, etc. and then place a frame inside of it. . Thanks for any help, and sorry about the bad illustrations Last edited by Slavakion; 05-04-2004 at 10:55 AM..

04-18-2004, 05:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cuball Insane Location: Belgium	tried IFRAMES ? first thing that comes to my mind .. could be wrong though __________________ Let's GO

04-18-2004, 11:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	no to the frame in frame. But you can do everything you asked for here with layers in dreamweaver, and the coding is is easy to learn and understand (plus it helps push standards foreward) Give it a go and see if it works better with layers. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

04-21-2004, 05:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Okay, I'd use the "change property" behavior, right? And change the property of innerHTML? If so, I just need to know what to put into the "new value" field. It's probably just a case of syntax... Do I use angle brackets? How do I reference it? Just like index.htm, or do I need <src>, <a href>... Thanks, I think I'm almost there EDIT: By the way, I'm not using MX, but Dreamweaver 4. Does that make a big difference? Last edited by Slavakion; 04-25-2004 at 04:02 PM..

04-25-2004, 04:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	bump

04-19-2004, 04:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Okay, thanks. But how do you set a link to target a different layer? Or should I have the nav buttons on the same layer?

04-25-2004, 05:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	little busy right now, give me a day or two to answer in full (unless anyone else wants to in the meantime) And get MX if you can. It has the current standards which is important. Also, look at www.projectseven.com if you get a chance. They are majot devolpers of using layers in new ways and can give an idea of what you can really accomplish. and a good intro tutorial here __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever Last edited by arch13; 04-25-2004 at 05:42 PM..

04-26-2004, 11:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	I understand, arch. I'll try to muddle through it on my own until then, but thanks for the links. And as far as MX goes, it's on my BitTorrent list

05-04-2004, 10:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Well, I got Dreamwever MX. How's your busy-ness (or would business work here?) going, arch?

05-05-2004, 12:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	Well i was halfway through creating an example in dreamweaver for you, and found this in google It's a really good example that explanes how to do what you seek. Simply create the nav menu at the top of the layer an inset table and make the nav menu have the same width and position as the layer. The browser will read the nav menu as part of the layer and scroll it when you follow these direction. I've included three links here that will accomplish a scrolling layer: http://www.dyn-web.com/dhtml/scroll/scroll-rel.html http://www.dansteinman.com/dynduo/en...lconcepts.html http://www.siteexperts.com/dhtmllib/...ller/page1.asp My personal favorite tutorial is the last link, as it explans how to create the scrolling either through custom scroll bars or through standard IE/Mozilla scroll bars. (by the way, Mozilla now supports overflow, which will make sense when you read these.) You can create the nav bar through images, tables, whatever. Remeber that it's best to understand each layer as a mini page that can have it's own character. Thus you can insert images, tables, etc like you would into any page in dreamweaver. Here's a quick and dirty example of scrolling layers made folling the third site instructions. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

05-06-2004, 05:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Thanks. I'll get moving on that tomorrow, which is good timing cuz it's the weekend. Sorry if I sounded impatient earlier, I wasn't expecting you to create something for me

05-10-2004, 07:08 AM	#13 (permalink)
trevry Upright	You do NONE of the above and you use CSS and DIVS for your layout. It's much easier, it's also standards compliant and can be changed much easier than standard code. Do some research.

05-10-2004, 12:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Just got a chance to look at some of the stuff you gave me: scrolling is great (and would have been my next question probably) but I need to know how to change the html source of a layer (so the layer changes, but not the rest of the page). Maybe I just missed it.

05-11-2004, 11:01 AM	#17 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	It's pretty much just a personal web site that I'm putting up for people to waste their time at. There's games, a forum, and interesting content (that's the plan, anyways). Layers may be overkill, but I only asked about them because I wanted to keep file size low to conserve bandwidth. In the unlikely possibility that I actually get visitors to my site. (I'm switching from a crappy design to a nice-looking template. At least twice the file size) My current host is Topcities, and I'm not sure what they allow. The closest thing that I saw was PHP4 in the "premium" plan. But I'm guessing that that's different. Oh, well. I have never used php before, so I guess I better get started.

05-11-2004, 02:15 PM	#18 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	you sir, do not have any scripting languages or shtml availible to you. That essentially removes any ability to use a template system where the same host file calls information sets into a frame, table, or layer without a full reload. In other words, you need to make each page manually since you can't use a template that loads info into it depending on the link clicked. If your going to upgrade, there are much better hosts for a similar price range. however, as this is just for fun, I say go at it making the pages yourself, use it as a chance to learn layers or div tables and full w3 html, and see what kind of traffic it attracts. By the way, that example link for layers i gave in the first post now has an example added to it of showing and hiding layers using the "onclick" method. Check it out and see if it gives you any ideas of ways to make what you want. Just click on the link in the scrollable table, __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever Last edited by arch13; 05-11-2004 at 02:20 PM..

05-13-2004, 05:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Heh heh, so after all that, I have to make each page separately, which is what I tried to not do. This seems oddly amusing to me. Oh, well, I've got a lot on my plate right now, since my HD tried to commit seppuku on me and I now have it at factory settings. Thanks for all your help (well, kinda) arch