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New To Linux? Want To Try It? Read here!
This thread is here to (hopefully) put some sense to the tons of posts about what Linux flavour to try (and if you should try it). I plan on splitting this into four sections: Considering, Planning, Installing, Playing.
First, a few terms to be defined:
Considering So you're thinking of trying Linux. Good for you! There are a few things you should watch for. The suggestions below primarily exist for a Linux distro that you install (not a LiveCD), but can still apply for LiveCDs too.
Still with me? Good :) Planning Hardware As mentioned above, it's suggested you allocate a separate machine (or at least a separate hard drive) your first time or two (to prevent data loss :)). I won't delve into that much more. I think it speaks for itself. Software Linux has equivalents for most things you are after. The thread titled Linux Software Equivalents lists a few suggestions, but I'll reproduce some of the major equivalences below. Remember though, Linux is about *choice*, and there are alternatives to the ones listed below. It's all up to you :)
What if you just want to run a Windows program? That's where things like Wine and Win4Lin. Wine is not a Windows emulator. It is an implement ion of the API. This means it handles the system calls that Windows programs makes and calls the appropriate Linux calls for it. What's that mean to you? It means you can run your window programs from Linux. See the website for more details. There's also a version of Wine called WineX, which handles DirectX stuff, allowing you to play some of your Windows games in Linux. I can't say much about Win4Lin, as I've never tried it. It is a commercial wine-type program, with even more compatibility with Windows. Leading into my discussion of window managers, I should talk about the underlying components that let a window manager do it's job! XWindows XWindows is the underlying component I was talking about, it sits between the kernel and the GUI, and translates GUI calls to the kernel and vice versa (among other things). A transition recently happened, and there are still a lot of references out there to the older program, so I thought I'd mention the two programs. XFree86 was the reigning standard for quite a while. Recently, though, they changed their licensing structure (you'll see that most Linux advocates support Open Source by nature). The changed licensing structure caused problems, and a new group was formed (the X.Org Foundation). The X.Org Foundation came out with their own version of XWindows, and kept the old license that XFree86 used. Because of this, most of the distros have drifted towards using X.Org instead of XFree86. It looks as if X.Org is THE version to use. Anyways, with that said... on with the window managers! Linux is about choice, remember. You have a choice of window managers too! Window Managers I'll talk a bit about two of the more popular window managers and provide links to a couple others. The two primary window managers are Gnome and KDE. While they both are easy to use and user-friendly (for the most part), they both handle things their own way. Which you use is a matter of personal opinion.
Other window managers include:
Alright, you think you can handle running Linux and using the alternatives. Where to next? Why, you need to pick a distro, of course! Linux Distributions Here I'll list some of the more popular distros and say a bit about them. Before I get to them, I am going to quickly talk about the kernel, that all distros are built off of. Kernel As said above, the kernel is the base of the operating system, the foundation. It is what talks to the hardware, among other things. Recently, the 2.6 kernel came out. This has a lot of improvements from the 2.4 kernel, but can still be buggy. (The 2.5 kernel is just a bunch of test versions, not to be used by beginners :)) For a first timer, you should probably start out with whatever your distro recommends. I am just mentioning the difference so when I mention it below, you know what I'm talking about. LiveCD Versions LiveCDs are great because you can try Linux using one of them without screwing up your system.
The following versions you actually install on your hard drive. Most come with a graphical installation option, making it a lot easier on you when you install.
Google - If you don't know this, you're in trouble :) Distrowatch - This keeps track of the (many, many) distros out there and when new versions are getting released. Which flavor of Linux? - A thread from almost a year ago (they're talking about RedHat 9.. before Fedora!) linux basics? - A thread about Linux basics (a couple months old). Thinking about trying out LINUX... - The thread that caused this to be made (well, the straw that broke the camel's back). mandrake linux 10.0 community - A thread about the latest (test) version of Mandrake [Linux] RedHat vs. SuSE - A thread about RedHat over SuSE Linux Newbie - Another "new to linux" thread :) Mandrake vs Redhat? Which do you prefer? - It goes into other distros as well There are more threads on this board that address the "which flavour to use" issue. Just search the Computing forum for "linux" and you get around 12 pages back :). I will add more later, when I have time. Wow.. all that and we haven't even gotten to installing. Let's move on! Installing This section will be relatively short, as every distro has it's own individual install process. If you can, I'd recommend you just do an "install everything" option (if your distro's install process has one, it probably does). That way you can play with all the stuff on the system. Otherwise you may miss stuff that could be useful to you and never know it :) Most every (good) distro can be downloaded. Check out LinuxISO to download most of the ones mentioned in this post. Use Nero or some other program to read the ISO and burn it to CD(s). Pop in the first CD (which should be bootable) and off you go! Different distros come with different boot loaders. As said before, Grub and Lilo are the primary ones. Grub has a more graphical interface to it (well, from what I've experienced of the two). It's all a matter of choice :). It is *highly* recommended you make a boot disk when prompted. If your system screws up, it can be a great saviour (although some distros do have a "Rescue Mode" on the bootable CD). Alright.. it's all installed.. now what? Playing Another short section. Congrats on getting it installed! Any problems, Be sure to Google (or ask here at TFP :)). So now that it's installed.. what should you try, what are some hints? Here's a few from me (other people will probably post more tips in this thread as well):
The following thread could also be of interest to you: Top Linux Downloads. It has some good software suggestions in it. Finally, I'll finish off with Freshmeat. Freshmeat is a site that keeps track of a lot of opensource programs and projects. If you're looking for something, chances are it's listed there :) Also, IceWalkers is a similar site, with plenty of Linux software available. New Section (as of June 2005) - User-supplied links! There are many good suggestions and links in this thread, but I thought I'd grab the links mentioned and make a list here so you don't have to dig through it. They are (in order that I've found them in the thread):
So that's it. Good luck, enjoy, etc. :) This post is definitely open to suggestions/improvements/criticisms. Let me know if you think something should be changed/added/deleted. Thanks :) |
That's a very extensive post you have there, and it provides on the mark info on a lot of stuff!
This is definately worthy of a sticky! My personal notes: If you want a windows replacement, use:
The first list will neatly set you up with a working desktop environment and a pre-selection of packages that you'll most likely use. Not asking too many questions, and giving decent advice at choke points. On the other hand they do not challenge you to look for better alternatives, try stuff out and generally 'learn' linux. If you want to learn linux, you'll actively need to break the polish of those systems. The second list will ask more of you in terms of technical questions/descisions but in the process it will teach you a lot about how linux and you computer works. The second list will also force you to decide for yourself which programs you want, which is good (as you can have it exactly how you want it) , but also bad (as you will need to know what you want ;) ). Note: while I say that Gentoo and Slackware are better for resource-lean machines, the other distro's are very capable of handling the same tasks. They are however not directed towards those use(r)s, while Gentoo and Slackware are. Edited for formatting |
Man...that comes at just the right time (my new hard drive for installing Linux for the first time onto arrived at my door almost exactly the same time I opened this thread)
That must have taken some work and is very impressive. Thanks, it should be a lot of help. |
Nice. Very, very nice. We've been needing a post like this for a while.
Mods? Sticky? |
finally....
thanks for the comprehensive post! i won't be such a n00b when i finish reading all the stuff you posted, latch. now if only someone could tell me how to network my linux box with my windows machines?..... |
Great post! Lots of great information there.
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Samba is the linux package that'll allow you to share files and printers over the network. However, if you're looking for firewall capabilities you should look at IPtables. For internet connection sharing it'll depend on which computer the actual connection is being shared. If on windows: ICS = Internet Connection Sharing, if on linux: See IPtables for NAT (Network Address Translation). On the latter, I could post a sample config that works for me, but do a search first, then start a new thread, if you're having problems GENERAL TIP: start a new thread discussing specific problems you encounter. This thread is (I assume?) for general advice with regards to the points listed in the original post. |
I have never been so happy about breaking the camel's back. Thank you for that informative and thorough post. I really do hope a mod stickys this as I will want to come back to it (and the sub-threads) again and again in the coming weeks.
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I might have just missed it somewhere in your post, but if you did miss it, Kernel.org is a valuable resource for anyone who wants to use Linux and really customize it.
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that's an excellent post. Thanks a lot for the info and all the sub-threads as well.
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Excellent thread - and now it's stickified ;)
A couple quick additions: Under software equivalents, <a href="http://gaim.sf.net">Gaim</a> is listed as a AIM/MSN/YIM/ICQ/Trillian replacement. I'd like to also add <a href="http://kopete.kde.org">Kopete</a> to that. It, like Gaim, is included with many distros. As an Outlook replacement, <a href="http://www.ximian.com/products/evolution/">Evolution</a> is listed. There is also a PIM program recently released for the first time by KDE called <a href="http://kontact.kde.org/">Kontact</a>. I have heard good things about it, and it is basically just a PIM implementation of already existing and good KDE programs such as <a href="http://kmail.kde.org/">KMail<a>, which is a good stand-alone E-Mail client under KDE for example. Lastly, while Freshmeat is a great open-source software site, <a href="http://www.icewalkers.com/">IceWalkers</a> is also very good. EDIT: Info's added above - thanks for the permission Latch :) |
Wouldn't you know it? Not 12 hours after I post this, out comes Mandrake's annoucement about Mandrake 10's full release. I've updated my post to reflect the new release :)
Thanks for the feedback guys! |
Just a quick question: Any good Linux programs for ripping DVD images to HD?
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Here's another Linux question. I'm not a newbie to Linux, but I'm close enough (taking a Linux class that uses RH9 right now). Anyway, I'm looking to use an old computer as a mail, ftp, and web server. What distro would you guys recommend?
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Any of the above distros wouldn't hurt...
...but if you feel like a challenge, Debian or a late-stage (2 or 3) Gentoo would probably do you. I have no reasoning to back up that they're "better" as a mail,ftp,web server (and I doubt they are better than any other distro.. it's all the same if you know to stop programs that distros may run by default)... there's just a little bit more involved in installing/running them, as it isn't all GUI-based. |
maybe i don't know what to look for in the voluminous resources listed...
but i've got knoppix 3.3 on one machine and fedora core 1 on another. since linux allows complete customization, where do i find information about upgrading the kernel to the 2.6, or general package (?) installations? i figure its got something to do with compiling source code or something.... help a newbie out? |
Depends on what you use.. I suggest trying to do the 2.6 upgrade via Fedora Core's up2date service (it's in the menu there somewhere). It's the quickest (and most painless) way to upgrade.
http://www.redhat.com/support/resour...ernel-upgrade/ There's a quick how-to site for you. I haven't looked at it much, so not sure if it's exactly what you need. If it isn't, google :) For FC1, general packages (in rpm format) can be found at www.freshrpms.net. Otherwise, check out Freshmeat or Icewalkers, find some cool-looking pacakges, download the source, uncompress/configure/make/make install it (the site will usually have some cool "Quick install" instructions) Need more info? just let me know. |
i've tried updating in FC1 (5 times), but i've gotten no result.
it'll start downloading updates and patches (slowly), and then all of a sudden i get a message stating something about wrong GPG keys (?), and asks if i want to download anyway. when i click OK to download, it crashes. and then i have to start all over.... i guess i'll have to play with it more. :-/ |
Hmm, you do need to get a new version of up2date, can't remember if that requirement was with RH9 or FC1 though. You could try to google for the error message you receive. Always a good way to find answers :)
BTW, I updated the new page w/ specs on Fedora Core 2 Test 2 and Knoppix 3.4... |
Hmm, you do need to get a new version of up2date, can't remember if that requirement was with RH9 or FC1 though. You could try to google for the error message you receive. Always a good way to find answers :)
BTW, I updated the orig post w/ specs on Fedora Core 2 Test 3 and Knoppix 3.4... |
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Can I ask you Linux gurus a question? A question that's been bugging me for a long time...
I saw the source for the kernel once, and I noticed that it looked a lot like C (I know a bit of C myself). What I'm wondering is... hmm... how to put this gingerly... what OS is Linux compiled under? Can you just open up the source in Visual Studio.NET and compile away? How about Borland or even Bloodshed? What OS do people usually compile Linux in? Linux? Or is there some compiler that is also its own mini-operating system that people compile Linux with? I'd like to go back to my old programming ways. The problem with my programming experience is that most of my programming was done in Visual Basic and ASP. Because of this, my knowledge on some stuff is pretty limited. Anyways, thanks :thumbsup: |
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I went to see Bill Gates speak and at least three groups of anti-MS folks were outside handing out Linux discs. Each had a FAQ attached and each FAQ talked about how it's not easy to get it installed (lack of drivers, etc.).
Windows ain't perfect, but if I have a crash I can have my HD formated and the software back up and running in about 90 mins. Toss in another hour for installing my favorite programs and I'm off to lunch with pals. I'm VERY curious about Linux, but don't have the time. Someday. |
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Either way, let's try to keep this thread for general lLinux questions pertaining to trying it out and such not, "Linux is cool, but with Windows..." and "I'd like to try it but not now because..." These are just fluff comments really and don't do much more than force people who are seriously thinking about trying Linux and who have questions into having to read more in this thread than they have to. Thanks! :thumbsup: ;) |
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Also, I updated the post to reflect the new versions of Fedora Code (v2) and Suse Linux (v9.1). |
Just saw this on SUSE's website and thought I'd make a note that SUSE has a live evaluation cd available for download here
I'm not able to download it and try it myself, but it might be worth a look. They still don't have ISO images to install to your hard drive that I'm aware of though, unfortunately. |
I just want to suggest that anyone considering using Linux locate their local Linux User Group (LUG). These groups exist in most areas, typically they have a mailing list where you can ask for help, and some form of social gathering/events. Often you can bring your computer along to meetings and someone will help you install and configure Linux on your system (however, you should check before you show up with your computer). It is very useful to have these contacts, especially if you dont have any friends who are experienced Linux users to help you with whatever problems may arise.
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wow thanks.. ive installed linux many times.. just to let it sit there because i cant install any dependencies for any other applications. the only thing i could do w/ my linux box is browse the web or chat on aim
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There are programs out there to help you with those dependecies. apt-rpm and synaptic are a very good combo for Redhat/Fedora systems.
Updates: Added Fallon's link for the free SuSE software. |
Well written and extremely thorough. This sort of "all inclusive" starter guide is needed for so many other pieces of technology.
Great work! |
Thanks ;)
update: added info on Fedora Core 3 test 1 (see Slashdot | Fedora Core 3 Test 1 Released for more info) |
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Well, I have installed Linux (Mandrake 9.2) on an old PC.
The install was easy enough, but I cannot connect to the net from it (it wont run the disc that came with my net connection) but hopefully I can figure it out or find an answer. It all looks pretty good anyway, so hopefully I will pick up enough to get by with it. How hard can it be? |
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Yeah, the disc has an .exe file and Mandrake says it cant run that.
The only other problem is I am finding it hard to get software off the Linux disk, because the Linux disk is a DVD, but it keeps telling me to insert it in my CDROM drive, which cant read it, and it wont look at the DVD drive. But I think maybe I can switch the drives wound or something so then it would look at the right one. |
The CD-ROM/DVD-ROM thing is odd. Must be a Mandrake thing.
There is a newer version of Mandrake out (10.. and 10.1beta was released yesterday). You could give that a try.. it'll have better/new features, more bugfixes (probably like your CD-ROM/DVD-ROM problem), etc. |
mentioned earlier
I believe it was squelch that commented on mandrake (preferred) and SuSE not being free. For windows users, that would like to "try out" linux without modifying their harddrive, do a search on google for "knoppix". Knoppix is a Debian Linux based distro with many customizable features. If you are a user that is wanting to install linux and dualboot your machine, I would recommend Fedora, SuSE, or Mandrake....all which mostly hold your hand through everything you do. They are still quite powerful. More experienced users like to use Debian or Gentoo linux. These last two distros are not recommended for beginners because of the way the installer looks (all text) and they both require the user to have knowledge of many of the packages being installed onto the system.
All of the above mentioned distros have free versions, while also having pay version because of the features they entail. You will find links to the most popular distributions at www.linuxiso.org. You may also want to check out www.distrowatch.com for reviews, comparisons, and downloads of the MANY distros of linux. |
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