The RealPlayer doesn't suck thread

[goof7ball]

I've seen a lot of RealPlayer bashing going on around here and it is starting to bug me. I happen to work at Real and kills me to read all of the comments about RealPlayer "being a virus" and that it "takes over your system" and I'd like to set the record straight.

So is this an advertisement? Absolutely not. I don't work for the marketing dept. and I don't want you to buy anything. I just want to offer a different side (the truth) to all of the stories I've been reading around here.

Is RealPlayer spyware? No. It doesn't report any usage details that can be tied back to any individual. So does that mean it reports my details anonymously? Sort of- but wait, don't blow your lid- when you rip a CD it uses an online database to fetch Artist/Album/Track info for you so that you don't have to type it in by hand. Is data about your music being transmitted? Yes. Is the software spying? No- every other jukebox app does the same thing. So then where did the spyware rumor start? About 5 years ago RealJukebox had a feature that sent a users playback info and an ID unique to them up to our servers so that we could offer a "music suggestions" service. By knowing that you listen to Metallica, we might try to offer you a CD from Soundgarden? Was the info ever used? No. We never implemented the feature. Did it cross the line? Yes. Was it sinister? No.

Does RealPlayer "take over your system"? yes and no. Yes- it does register as the handler for most media types when you perform the default install, but no it isn't trying to get away with anything. It is a media player- you're installing it- it assumes you want it to play your media. A few years ago it had a feature that would automatically reclaim media types taken by other apps- why? Because other apps did the same thing. Was there a way to turn this behavior off? Yes. Should this behavior have been op-in rather than opt-out? Yes, but read the comment about adware before you pass judgement.

Is the RealPlayer "bloatware"? No. I hear this all the time and it drives me up the wall. Run it along side any other media player with similar features (Windows Media Player, Music Match, new versions of WinAMP,...) and the stats are the same (or RP is better).

Is the RealPlayer addware? Yes. I can't argue with you about that (instead I argue with the marketting folks ). Consider this though: when Microsoft is bundling their player AND server with their OS for FREE what is the company supposed to do? The short term answer was to leverage our large userbase to sell adds in oder to survive long enough to put together the long term plan- to get the player on devices not controlled by Microsoft (i.e. cell phones), and to sell subscription content and music downloads. The plan is working and if you visit www.real.com you'll notice that there are no adds.

What about XYZ? Ask away. I'm not privy to all the info all the time, and I'm certainly not speaking on the company's behalf, but I do know a lot of the history and I'll answer as best I can.

Thanks for letting me rant,
--goof

[_the_wombat]

I read the post. You're lying. I still hate Real.

I don't like real, never have.
If anybody wants a good alternative try out MPC or RA.

[Destrox]

I didnt really like the choices for votes since the one I'd like to choose is mid-way between two of them.

I voted: I read the post. You're lying. I still hate Real.

I dont want to say you are lying, but I want to say from my own first hand experience with many versions of Real Media software, waaay back they were once good. Slowly I've just seen them become more and more useless. RealOne was the final step for me to even blink twice towards RealMedia, that software cause almost as much problems with other media players as Norton does with other virusscanners and firewalls.

Good post, really was. Had a nice "PR Lecture" feel to it, but went against most everything I've experienced first hand.

That excludes the spyware part, I actually never heard about it, or even thought it. That was more of news, and a valid argument to me.

[Nomad]

I read the post. You're lying. I still hate RealPlayer.

I now use Real Alternative, and I will Never use RealPlayer again.

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by Destrox
I didnt really like the choices for votes since the one I'd like to choose is mid-way between two of them.

The "I'm lying" choice in the poll was intended to a) be funny, and b) weed out the people who are going to be haters no matter what I say.

The only thing I could lie about (and get away with) is the spyware explanation- everything else can be easily refuted by somebody installing the player and testing it.

As for the the "PR Lecture" comment- I'm sorry if it came out that way; for me, this isn't about generating good PR, this about setting the record straight. I don't mind if people hate the software I've built, I just don't want them to hate it for the wrong reasons.

That being said, if you hate the RealPlayer for reasons I didn't list, please post them. I'll try to explain anything I can, and I'll try to fix everything else.

[goof7ball]

*edit* my last post got submitted twice.

[_the_wombat]

Originally posted by goof7ball
The "I'm lying" choice in the poll was intended to a) be funny, and b) weed out the people who are going to be haters no matter what I say.

The only thing I could lie about (and get away with) is the spyware explanation- everything else can be easily refuted by somebody installing the player and testing it.

As for the the "PR Lecture" comment- I'm sorry if it came out that way; for me, this isn't about generating good PR, this about setting the record straight. I don't mind if people hate the software I've built, I just don't want them to hate it for the wrong reasons.

That being said, if you hate the RealPlayer for reasons I didn't list, please post them. I'll try to explain anything I can, and I'll try to fix everything else.

Out of curiosity what aspect of the program were you associated with?

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by _the_wombat
Out of curiosity what aspect of the program were you associated with?

Development of the Windows client.

[SecretMethod70]

Well, to be honest, I can't explain it specifically. I just don't like the "feel" of RealPlayer. I don't think it's as evil as everyone else does, but Winamp doesn't have ads, and it's always "felt" better to me.

Thanks for the explanations though - doesn't change my mind in not liking RealPlayer, but it's interesting insight.

[Redjake]

I read the post, but I'm still not convinced........of what?

That Real Player sucks, or that it's not spyware?

I known Real Player isn't spyware, you guys couldn't get away with that for long. But with personally experiences, Real Player just doesn't do it for me. The buffering takes too long compared to other media players (why? hell if I know) and my computer just seems to lag itself out whenever I run it. RealOne player is definitely a step up from the usual though.

[viejo gringo]

I am thankful that I saved the old versions of Real Jukebox and Real Player.....you could run them as two seperate things...and it was so simple to record a disc onto your PC,,

This new Realplayer takes over everything....and I suppose if I had designed the damn thing I could find everything I need...or maybe not...there seems to be a lot that I can not find....and NO I am not signing onto their network or registering the damn thing---so.....

I am going to uninstall Realplayer and put my old versions back on.......I like life to be simple, and unintusive....

[LNCPapa]

I work in IT and Real Player has given me many administrative nightmares over time. I initially voted before even reading the thread so I guess my vote on the poll would now change, but I still abhor RealPlayer. I absolutely refuse to install it on anything *EXCEPT* one of my Macs since there seems to be no pain in removing it from the machine. I thought things had changed when Real One came out - and I stopped cringing when I saw people launching it - till I tried it on one of my machines for a while and tried removing it. Oh, how I regressed into my "hater" mentality but it truly was a bad experience. I don't describe RealPlayer as any sort of Spyware - I knew those types of features were removed long ago and many other applications did this (even creative's drivers) - however, I do often find myself describing it as a virus. Your post was an interesting read and reminds me that no matter what you think about a company there are really just people behind it. All people are different - some better than others - and you are not near as abrasive as the company you work for BTW - I felt that the die die die option on the poll was humorous as well - therefor I chose it before reading the thread

[sailor]

Originally posted by Nomad
I now use Real Alternative, and I will Never use RealPlayer again.

Yeah, its an interesting insight, but I *still* hate RealPlayer, and wont be installing it on any of my machines, ever. Im not trying to be an ass about it, but after one has had as many consistently bad experiences with a program, one doesnt tend to like it.

[Lasereth]

goof7ball, that's a brave stance ya got going on. I'm glad you defended a project you're working on, and I'll let you know that most users don't hate Real Player because they think it's spyware or adware -- they hate it because it slows their computers down. I'll be honest with you, the Real Player isn't too bad of a media player -- it works when it's supposed to. There's just no getting around the fact that once I have it installed, if Real Player is running in the system tray or if Real One is installed at all, my PC becomes a slugfest with everyday uses becoming much slower.

Don't ask me why it does it, because I really don't know -- but it does. Every computer I've installed it on slows down when Real Player is running. If Real One is installed, they go haywire with virtual memory errors and this and that.

Simply enough, Windows Media Player, WinAmp, DivX (blatantly adware), and even Quicktime don't slow down my PC, and Real Player does. If this problem was fixed, the reputation would be fixed. Thanks for your time explaining the other view, however. Just lettin ya know that most people don't consider it spy/adware, it's just the fact that the Real programs make computers slow.

-Lasereth

[God of Thunder]

Bottom line is I've never experienced


buffering........

any good quality

buffering........

audio or video streams

buffering........

from anyone using real.


The sound sucks and the video is trashy.

I prefer Quicktime over anything.

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by Lasereth
it's just the fact that the Real programs make computers slow.

I can assure you that is not the case. I've got RealPlayer running right now and a quick look at taskmanager shows that it is utilizing 0% CPU (I'm currently running my PIII-500 mhz Laptop running WinXP).

If when running RealPlayer you notice your system getting slow- it isn't the player- it is that you have a slow computer.

A word to the wise- if you do choose to install RP10 to see if I am full of shit, take note of its performance characteristics after running it a few times- for one, the player does a lot of initialization tasks the first time it runs, and two, on WinXP the OS preloads parts of the application after you run it a few times. If you compare a freshly installed RealPlayer to the media player you use all the time you won't be getting an apples to apples test.


In my next installment I'll talk about the realsched.exe background process and I'll talk about what (from an annoyance standpoint) makes RP10 different than all previous products.

And finally, a comment about RealAlternative: the program is using the Helix Platform (our open source/cross platform media engine) just like the RealPlayer so for those of you who plan to "never use Real again" you are using it now. Also, I decided to try it before I bashed it- installing the program broke RP10 in such a way that even an RP10 re-install didn't work. I had to uninstall RealAlternative and THEN reinstall RP10 to get it working again. Spare me the jokes about that being a feature, and I'll spare you the jokes about your mother.

[yakimushi]

I've used RealPlayer since the days of yore, and I still think its a stinking pile of code.

Ok, maybe the code is good, but the app itself is trash. The only thing I'd ever use RealPlayer for would be to play RealAudio or -video. And I don't ever need to listen/watch those formats, so I never install Real.

Winamp does an excellent job playing all of my audio needs, and Windows Media Player play all of my video with the help of a few codecs. And both do it simply, quickly, and without adds.

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by God of Thunder
Bottom line is I've never experienced
...
any good quality
...
The sound sucks and the video is trashy.

Maybe the porn sites you are watching don't encode the content well?

RealPlayer is a universal media player- it plays every type of media. Are you sure it was playing back a Real Networks codec? I just played a couple of videos from the RealGuide and I got 0 buffering (I'm at home on my cable modem, not a fat corporate pipe) glitchless audio and glitchless video. Before blaming the player you should consider the source of the content. If the authors use a crappy codec/insufficient bit rate, or if their server can't handle the load then your experiece will be poor no matter which player you use.

[Redjake]

While I agree with you on the "porn sites" thing (if the quality of the video is bad, that's pretty much the encoder's fault)....you are definitely fighting a losing battle with the bloatware thing. It's hard to convince us (and by "us" I mean basically the entire freakin' USA) that something isn't a bloatware when it simply IS on our computers. And it's not that our computers are slow. Mine is fast. And it just takes longer than other media players to play stuff and open. You can't argue something that is already set in stone.


And Real Player being slow as long as I've used it is definitely concrete.

[God of Thunder]

Originally posted by goof7ball
Maybe the porn sites you are watching don't encode the content well?

How dare you insinuate that I look at..... aw hell, no denying it, a lot of the porn content is bad.

But, nothing I've ever watched through Real has been any good.



btw, I like how you left the little buffering joke out of my quote. Face it. Everybody who's ever used Real gets that joke.

[sipsake]

Originally posted by goof7ball
If when running RealPlayer you notice your system getting slow- it isn't the player- it is that you have a slow computer.

Geez...I'm a systems admin and if I had a dollar for everytime a software vendor/rep told me

"It's not our software, you need to upgrade your hardware"

I could freakin' retire.

I laughed uncontrollably when the Car Talk website ditched RealPlayer due to the number of complaints about the software.

Car Talk boots Real Media

Please stop blaming the consumer for Real's piss poor reputation. Real has no one to blame but themselves.

[sipsake]

Originally posted by God of Thunder
btw, I like how you left the little buffering joke out of my quote. Face it. Everybody who's ever used Real gets that joke.

[Lasereth]

Yeah, that comment really pissed me off. My computer is too slow? Ok, me and my friends with our Athlon XP 1900+, 2500+, 3200+, and P4 2.4 GHz will go buy new processors because Real Player slows them down. No, you can't blame it on slow computers -- the program slows down computers.

Of course it is slower the first time you install it...well, how come other media players AREN'T? Other media players NEVER slow down my PC, even when in the system tray *shudder*. If a damned Athlon XP 1900+ won't run Real Player smoothly, then I guess it's time to upgrade to the Athlon 64 FX-51!

-Lasereth

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by God of Thunder

btw, I like how you left the little buffering joke out of my quote. Face it. Everybody who's ever used Real gets that joke.

Dude, I get that joke. I make that joke, the difference is that I know it is a joke. Like encoding quality, buffering is largely a matter of network qaulity. Also, if you notice buffering when you are connecting to a stream that you think should play without problems, go to the network settings preferences and switch from UDP to TCP (assuming you are using broadband). Some routers choke on UDP.

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by Redjake
....you are definitely fighting a losing battle with the bloatware thing.

Only against the closed minded, my friend. Compare it to products with similar feature sets (i.e. Windows Media Player, Music Match, iTunes) and you'll see that you are wrong. I'll accept a lot of criticism about RealPlayer, but not that it is bloatware.

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by sipsake
... if I had a dollar for everytime a..

user claimed that installing RealPlayer caused their hardware to fail I'd retire too.

Please stop blaming the consumer for Real's piss poor reputation.

I'm not blaming the consumer. No doubt, Real has done a lot of things that piss people off, but a lot of things are changing around here and this thread is my attempt to point them out to people who otherwise wouldn't notice.

Visit real.com and you'll see that the free player is available in two clicks- no trickery whatsoever. Is there marketting? Yes. Is it intrusive? Not in my book.

A word of warning: if you do try to download the player and you are asked to install an activeX plugin, just say no and the installer will start downloading. The plugin is a download manager that allows you to pause/resume the download- (installing it will only affect downloads that specifically request it), but you don't need it so don't bother.

[goof7ball]

Originally posted by Lasereth
Ok, me and my friends with our Athlon XP 1900+, 2500+, 3200+, and P4 2.4 GHz will go buy new processors

I'm not talking about your computers. I'm talking about somebody with a PII running WinXP with 128MB of memory. If you are running an Athlon XP, RealPlayer is not slowing down your computer. I'm running it on my 500mHz laptop and it isn't slowing down my computer.

Of course it is slower the first time you install it...well, how come other media players AREN'T?

Like Windows Media Player? Maybe because Microsoft built it into their OS?? The precaching I referred to is an issue with ANY program you install on WindowsXP. Install a new app, run it a few times, reboot and run it again. It will start faster.

[ToolBag]

HOLY SHIT! GoofBall, dude, majority wins here! Real Player has to be the worst media player out there for quality. Buffering like a mother fucker, piss poor quality, and if you say its my system then please direct me to a decent stream of anything other than a still picture that doesnt remind me of the days of dial up. I am not a big fan of Windows Media Player but the quality is god like compared to Real Player. I honestly do understand your side to some point, you work for them, you believe in the product but face it, when you have a whole board of computer savvy people here saying Real Player is shit, some light has to go off in your head and make you think outside the cubicle!

[merkerguitars]

<---------------------------------------------

[sailor]

See, heres the thing. You keep saying that Real made mistakes in the past, and are now correcting them.

The problem is that so many people have had so many problems with those mistakes in the past, that no one wants to go back to Real. There are *plenty* of alternative media players that have never had these issues. People no longer trust Real, and are moving to other players.

[Kllr Wolf]

I ahve a question. Why cant I shut the damn thing off. I tried to download some files for a friends Linux machine. Instead of letting me save it to a drive, Real Player kept trying to show it as a video stream. I was in my programming class and tried it again. It became a big laugh at how that real player could not be turned off and was trying to run Linux programs as streaming video. Thanks to incidents like that our lab no longer has real player and the college is looking at removing it from everything.

[JohnnyRoyale]

Ok, fine. You think Real's better? Prove it. Put the same video on the same two machines, have to other same machines connect, one with Real, one with something else (Apple, MS MP), and stream the video.

If the server's the same, the networks the same, the end machines are the same, and the clips the same, then Real should, according to you, be faster, right?

[SecretMethod70]

I just want to say, goof7ball, I looked at real.com and you're right - the free player is available in 2 relatively obvious clicks. That's a BIG improvement from the crap they used to pull hiding the link in starnge places and such.

Nonetheless, like others have pointed out, sure, maybe Real is getting better - maybe they're acting more responsibly - but with so many other media players out there that already work just fine, what does RealPlayer have to entice people to start using it again?

[Mephisto2]

I've found this to be an very entertaining thread.

It's amusing to see the violent reactions to the Real Player. I also 7applaud goof7ball for posting his defence of the product.

Me? Well, as usual, if I use an application for any decent amount of time, I pay for it. So I have a registered version of Real One. It's not great, but it works fine for playing Real media streams.

I don't like the RealSched (or whatever it's called) process that works in the background. In fact, I'd like more info on exactly what it is and why it's needed.

Mr Mephisto


PS - Is this new version, Real Player PLUS (the premium $19.95 version), replacing Real One? If so, I'm pissed...

[ChrisJericho]

I despise realplayer as well.... I disabled all the realplayer applications at startup so they do not slow down my system.

[Latch]

I've disliked Real for a while... but I'm willing to give you a chance, goof7ball. Your post seems to make sense, and you admit past flaws.. which is good. I use Linux generally, but next time I'm on Windows and need to play something, I'll try it over Media Player or Real Alternative.

I'd try the Linux version, but I'm still bruised from the last try. It locked up my gnome session. Plus.. it's not opensource

That said.. it's going to take a while before you have the public's trust back again. Until then, you'll be fighting a hard uphill battle (as shown in this thread).

[LNCPapa]

Be careful uninstalling that from the Windows machine Latch

[Latch]

Originally posted by LNCPapa
Be careful uninstalling that from the Windows machine Latch

hehe. I said I would give it a shot again, so I won't complain too much as I haven't tried the absolute newest version.. but I do remember trying to Uninstall RealOne.. I know how painful it can be hehe.

[MontanaXVI]

i votewd that i did not read and i still hate real...

well i read the post, and i still do not like real. all was cool for me up until the point where i actually PAID for like realplayer 5 or something it was waaay back in the day, im thinking ive got myself something nice here. well all was good until it asked me to pay again in like 3 months to extend my subscription, no way in hell im gonng keep paying for software every few months just to have a newer version no thanks uninstalled never used again. later on i began to notice people using realplayers and did not like how jukebox was all combined with it along with installing by default as the media player for everything in their systems that is not called for, however in reals defense every other media player does this too.

now i see realone and it just seems to have TOO MUCH stuff wirtten into it. and then added onto the fact that im not impressed with the quality of real vs yea i hate to say WMP video/audio i gotta pass on it.

so my initial vote would have to change

i have read the post, useful still not convinced

[Holo]

Not convinced. I hate the horrible pixelation (cubing) you get from real videos. If every pornographer is making them look like this obviously it's not just the person encoding. Tons of home users make MPGs or divx or Xvids with very nice quality. I can't recall ever seeing a really nice looking and sounding real file. AFAIK you can't use other codecs for audio either so it's functionality is very impaired if this is true. Every other codec can use practically any audio codec except MPG. Thing is Real made too many mistakes in a very unforgiving Internet. You say they kep usage stats...to me any app that monitors my usage is spywre. They knew ppl don't like spam and spyware and they did it anyway.

Let's get on the app now...I never installed any Real after 8 but the GUIs of old were very clunky, with no playlist or anything unless you bought the whole thing. Is there a million skins like winamp? Does it have numerous plugins like winamp? Can you take advantage of the millions of winamp skins in Real like xmms can?. Sorry man but Real is very closed off and has little extensibility and compatibility compared to the king, Winamp. If Real were a superior product, it would have a good market share and a large usebase to support it with plugins and skins. I never use just one player for vids anyway since WiMP won't play one well while BS Player will.

I appreciate your intent and applaud you sticking by your company, but I think you're preaching to Satanists on this one. Even if Real had none of the flaws and past mistakes that have been covered exhaustively in this thread, I still wouldn't use it since I have absolutely no reason to...it can't beat Winamp. Period.