Curious about speaker cable
 

I wasn't sure if this should go here or in the electronics forum, but here goes:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...sp?sku=AQGRAS6

Twenty ft of that wire costs more than my receiver. What's the difference among all these brands of speaker wire? I got 50ft of Monster cable for pretty cheap on ebay and they work well. Anyone know the market that these cables are made for? How much for their other equipment would they be willing to pay, I wonder.

I have found that unless you have extrodinary ears (and yes, I do have very good ears), cable makes little noticable difference. You need electronic devices to tell the difference! If you're wiring over long distances, buy the good and more expensive stuff. Otherwise, Monster and it's like are usually a waste of money.

Flame away!

No flame. I agree.

I understand that there are people who can tell the difference. For them, such high-end improvements may be worth it. Those are the people that will also buy a $150+ replacement power cord or $50 electrical sockets(!). I can't tell the difference. My room isn't set up optimally to even take advantage of the difference. I can better spend that money elsewhere.

if you want good stuff, don't get monster for two reasons:

1) you can get better stuff for cheaper or the same price.
2) don't feed the monster hype!

i A/Bed my friends system on radioshack cables/nice home-made cables and the difference truly was noticable. however, like micah already said, there's probably much better places to waste your money.

I have Monster quality cables for my guitar/amp/pedals and I can really tell the difference.

I have to agree. I used some radio shack $15 cable once, and the sound was good because my system was good. Then I decided to try out monsters. WOW the difference wasn't even close. However, that being said, I would have to say the average ear cannot hear a significant quality difference in cables better than monsters.

Anything will work well until you hear a good speaker cable. Much in the same way a Taurus is great if its all you've ever known. Till one day you hop in an Audi A8.... then your whole perspective changes. You mind starts to wonder about the music... "I wonder what else is hiding in there?"

Some differences you will find in higher end wires are the purity of the copper, how much copper, whether or not the wires are individually stranded, and whether or not the cable uses networks to lower noise. Cables are not hype. Monster cables are hype. But one needs decent enough equipment to tell any difference.

I'll sneak a little mind blower in at the end too.... and if you think $159 for a pair of 6 ft cables is outlandish... take a look at the Transparent Opus MM cable. This is quite possibly the best speaker cable ever made. Ever. Ever. So check that out for a while... then take a stab at what it sells for. If you're good enough to find that... ask yourself who they're marketing that to....

(I would kill (without hesitation) for those, by the way...)

I can't really get excited for anything other than 12guage oxygen free copper. I've heard more expensive, and it makes no difference on the system's I've dealt with which probably max at about $10k.
I've heard some people claim that you should spend 50% of your money on cable, I almost beat them senseless.

I found an article once writtien by some old school analog audio engineer that said even 12 gauge copper stranded was almost overkill, if I could find it, I'll post it.

But as a rule of thumb with the places I've seen, 10% of system price is the max you probably wanna go, unless you need really long or are bi-amping.

How about long headphone cables or RCA cables? I need about 8-10 ft of cable to connect the S/PDIF out from my computer to the digital in of my receiver. Anyone know where I can get decent quality stuff for that? Monster is waaay expensive.

I have a 20ft headphone extension cable (stereo mini plug male and female ends) from Radio Shack. I'm not really looking to upgrade but anyone know what my options are if I decide to?

Edit:
I looked up the Transparent Opus MM cable.
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/au...es/opus-mm.asp
There's a thread on the page
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/au...sp?MsgID=58455
that talks about creating your own speaker cable out of computer networking cable. Anyone have a link or directions for doing that? I have a buddy who has around 500ft of networking cable in a spool just collecting dust. Even if it's not any better it'll be an interesting project.

The price on that link was a bit low.. according to the Transparent 2003 price list, an 8 ft pair of the Opus MM will set you back $29,750.

Once, I asked someone who sold grado, if there was anything to there expensive headphone extension cables (I use grado sr80's) . The dealer looked me in the eye and said something to the effect of "why would you wanna pay so much extra for that? I just use that radio shack cable. "

He told me thiis as I was demoing a creek 5350 at his suggestion, so he did have pretty good taste.

And for spdif I find it hard to believe that a digital signal really needs that good cable. You'd notice really quick if it dropped bits, it would not degrade gracefully like analog would. It should have some sort of checksum bits if it was worth anything. Thus you could probably do well with any moderately shielded cable with good connectors.

AR's low to midrange would probably work perfectly. Just make sure it's made for digital, 70 ohm cable I believe.

Yeah, for people like me, for instance, this is a lot of excitement for not much improvement.

I'm pathetic. I think MP3s sound pretty darn good. :rolleyes:

im holding out for fiber optic speaker cables

Speaks generally send more juice through the system so they are far more forgiving than low voltage devices like 'phones or 'gits.

I notice a difference in both my phones and my bass git when using cheap cables vs. good cables. And I'm nearly deaf, if you listen to my wife.

Yes, higher quality cables sound better. No, you shouldnt spend that much on them. There are much cheaper nice cables out there.

Read this article:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm

The author's home page is here:

http://www.roger-russell.com/

He is a retired OEM engineer for McIntosh Sound Labs and has some very interesting thoughts on expensive, largely unneeded, "monster" type speaker cables.

Those of you who believe they can hear a difference are doing so purely subliminally.

Victims of 'keeping up with the jones' and manufactured hype for over priced products which deliver nothing.

Oh, and unless your an Engineer from McIntosh or another HIGH END audiophile applicance manufacturer, I will continue to side with Roger on this one.

-bear

Yeah I thought of that article. I for one will side with him...

the most expencive cables i have ever saw were from MIT. http://www.mitcables.com/ One ove the stero shops I used to go to when i lived in ohio carries it. One cool stereo shop too I may add, they do multi million dollar installs, and are still cool toward everyone that walks in the door.....

Oh and btw I use Monster cable and love it, though I have $90 worth of cableing in my car for just one pair of RCA's and one run of #8.... But my whole home theater is wired with monstercable...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by j8ear
[B] Read this article:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm

That's a great article. One thing I have questioned is that people hook up expensive low guage wire to their amps, but what is inside the speaker, running between the components (connectors, crossovers, drivers)? It would seem that the quality of the signal path is only as good as the weakest link, and if that link is in the speaker, then what's the point of using fancy wires to get the power across the room only to have it be degraded by the speaker mechanism itself?

For speaks.. use whatever is on hand, but don't skimp on cables for your low voltage sources.

Don't forget though monster brand and similar cable is very heavily marked up...I think its over 200%....Yes there is junk and good cabling....but good cable doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg.

Typically I would say that the difference between exotic cables and standard wire tends to be on a more psychological level. If you are interested in learning more, visit www.avsforum.com and search for threads on this subject. One fellow even claims to have run an ABX double blind test between $1000/meter wire and a standard wire coat hanger and obtained results indicating that individuals could not statistically discern the difference between the two. In fact, I think he was even offering anybody around $1000 if they could discern the difference 10/10.

I have always been happy buying standard 12 gauge oxygen free wire from Home Depot at like $0.10/ft. Very cheap and it gets the job done.

Seems as if I've jumped in here a bit late, but I use Cardas cables in my sytem. I tried *every* Cardas cable before I settled on the right interconnects and speaker cables. Why? Well, cables can tune a system one way or another. They won't make an average system incredible, but the *right* cables will give you the sound you seek.

On my own personal list of omigosh cables, check this out:

Nordost Valhalla. Yes, $3360 for a one meter interconnect.

That's why you tear that shit out and replace that too. I'm soon to be replacing the fishing line inside my speakers for some good ol' 8 ga.

What about the crossover itself? Let us know how this turns out - I'd almost think this would have a larger effect than some of the speaker wires.

I think if you have the money to have a good component system setup, then you should spend the extra money to have hi-end cables. I wouldn't necesarily say that if you decide to use of fatter gauge that you have to go with *MONSTER. Good luck

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ubertuber

Quote:

Originally posted by j8ear but what is inside the speaker, running between the components (connectors, crossovers, drivers)?

Good point. It will ultimately depend on the what the speaker mfr deems correct. High-end speakers do, in fact, take this into consideration. After all, they don't want you getting inside to make the change yourself (warrantee, etc.)

There's also the question of just which gauge to use inside. There are so many capacitive and resistive issues with an entire system, and this does include the inside of the speaker. That's why some speakers cost more: they've done the homework already! Crossover components are the same. Wima and Auricap capacitors are often used for crossovers on the "good" stuff.

This is a great thread!

I really dont have anything constructive to add, other then i think you should keep your cable impeadance lower then your speakers so you dont load the system.

However i just kinda find it it intersting that a discussion about audio plunges into electrical engineering really quick.

Brilliant!

The crossovers are all solid state inside, so nothing can be done there.

I will be doing a bit of research to see what has the largest overall effect; upgrading the cabling from the amp to the speakers, or from the speaker terminal to the drivers themselves.

Not necessarily...replacing cheap electrolytic output caps on a crossover with high-grade caps (Wima, Solen, Hovland, Auricaps) can make a big difference. Finding the exact value might be a pain, though.

Break out that solder gun and go to town!

For more discussion on output caps, etc, check out this neat DIY site.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/bottlehead/bbs.html

'Audiophiles' who try to convince you that they can hear a difference between good and bad wires even if you can't really annoy me.

VampireWire used to make a pair of 8' pure silver speaker cables for $15,000. No doubt they had plenty of pretentious customers.

Part of high end audio is learning how to hear those details. Its very similar to photography: once you get an eye for proper color balance, white balance, composition, angle, view, contrast, etc, you will see things that make great photos. So what's difference between an audiophile and a photophile? People have respect for the photophile.

That place wouldn't happen to be Progressive Audio on High St, would it?

I'm sorry to hear this BoCo. It comes down to a matter of personal appreciation for audio. For some, adequate audio can be had out of a boombox. For others, such as myself (although I am not yet ready to classify myself as an audiophile, but I do strive to learn more every day), we desire a truer sound. The path to one's "perfect sound" is one full of trial and error, upgrades, tweaks, and a billion other things to try to scrape out just a bit more accuracy. Maybe you've ran into the "snobby" sort of audiophile that would look down on someone with less acute ears, but they're mostly just normal people. We all have our standards.


Good points juju.

All I will say on the subject as far as can you here the difference, if you have an older style stereo receiver( if all you are looking for is music, Onkyo makes a bullet proof one for about $300) hook your right channel up with radio shack thin gauge speaker wire 50 ft and left channel with some good 16 gauge or better speaker wire 50 ft. your receiver, your speakers. Assuming both speakers are in good condition play something that you know how it should sound and go from one channel to the other you don't hear a difference, return the higher quality speaker wire.


When I used to sell the stuff I had a lot of $5 returns and not too many $40 returns on speaker wire.

Like some of the posters, I remain unconvinced of the benefits of high grade (expensive) wire. While the basic premise seems feasible, I've yet to experience the difference a good set of wires can make. I have purchased fairly decent wiring that was handmade by a local audiophile, and although I'm unable to discern any difference, I do trust his opinion as a professional. I guess it just comes down to how much money you are willing to part with.

i'm not going to argue with anyone who says they can hear the difference, even though i can't.

what i don't get is when people buy a 900-1000 dollar system, then pay 300 dollars or more for the cable. sure, the 900 dollar system is gonna be adequate in most areas... but think of the cost/benefit ratio you are getting from spending a third of your purchase dollars on cable! my goodness, spring for a $1200 or so system and spend 50 bucks on cable. your overall system will be much stronger.

My parents just went through this phase the past few years where they bought a flat screen tv, bose system, and finished up with all monster cables. I have no idea how much they spent on the monster cables, but it was a lot. My dad claims that he can tell the diff but I thought it was amazing with the bose alone and reg cables.

I don't go over there much, so I can't really say that it didn't make a difference. My thoughts are that if you have the money to blow, go ahead but it's not worth it if you are working with a budget.

speaker cable in all honesty shouldnt be that big of a deal... yes there is a lot of noise out there for the cables to pic up, but i will be damned if i can hear it... its really about the gauge of the cable, runs over a certain distance will turn them into a transmission line, but i dont think any house has a run that is big enough for that to be an issue... if you want just run a nice large gauge, like 12 or 14, that will make a noticible diffrence over something like 18...also i wouldnt pay for monster