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Old 12-23-2003, 01:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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wireless network

you guys prolly think i ask alot of questions hehe. I got a network. and its all threw ethernet. But i wanna extend it with out going threw walls that are already up. So i wanna go wireless. Can i just buy a wireless NIC or do i need a wireless hub 2? beacuse i only need one computer and dont wnana change hubs for that.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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well you need at least two wireless devices.

either
1 wireless card in a computer
1 wireless hub, switch or router (basestation)


or
2 or more wireless cards in computers, one as a gateway which in turn is connected to the internet.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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well on this network there is no internet. Its purly for networking quickbooks/print sharing/active inventory. i have a cable runing 100 feet around a wall icant get threw. But it slows me down alot because how long the cable is. i might look into wireless. now if i buy an new wireless hub can i hook my nonwireless ethernets into it? or will i need to do something special?
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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wire is faster than wireless.... can't get thru the wall? what about over it thru ceiling?
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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its a three story building with a 3 foot solid brick wall in the middle. the wall goes all the way to the top. I would half to drill threw the wall. And i can not see doing that.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Smackre,

What is the wall made of, and how thick is it?

Also, many of the wireless "hubs" (called Access Points) now come with combined switches & routers built-in. In other words, if you pay just a little bit more, you can get an Access Point that has a few ethernet ports (typically 3-4). You can plug your "wired" PCs into these just like a normal hub/switch.


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Old 12-23-2003, 02:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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its a 3 foot brick wall.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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wireless will have shittier speed than wire thru a 3 foot brick wall
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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maybe ill just stic with it then. I hooked it up with a 6 foot cable and it ran nice and stuff. then i moved it to the office it was going to be in. And ran the 100ft cable and it slowed down realy bad. Like 1/6 of what it once was. you guys think the cable could have a prob with it?
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ethernet goes down in speed exponentially at 100 feet and afterwards. That 1/6 of the speed is normal.

Two options: Wireless, or drill! If you were doing wireless, I'd get a wireless access point with wired ports like Mephisto said. Then all ya need is a wireless network card in the PC that's across the wall.

If you drill, that'd be the money-saver and speed saver. 3 feet of brick is pretty damn impossibly though. You'd have to make the hole big enough for a cat 5 connector to go through, and have a drill bit that's 3 feet long (unless you're a damn good measurer and can drill from both sides).

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Old 12-23-2003, 04:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Three floors of solid demizing wall sounds odd. I'll bet dollars to dounts that options other then drilling exist. Although if you must drill, you must drill. At any rate, any office space, that isn't cat-5 capable, will need to eventually be retrofitted as such.

Also, Lasereth, it's actually 100 meters...about three times the length you mentioned, and much longer then any drop I have ever run, seen or been told about.

You can go a hell of a long way with a cat-5 drop.

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Old 12-23-2003, 08:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Or move the hub down the line to cut down on the 100' length. You could do 50' in either direction as an option ...

I second the 100meter figure too.

Perhaps the cable has a crimp or a snag in it along the length?

How slow are we talking, Smackre?
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Old 12-23-2003, 08:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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quickbooks normaly takes 5-10 secs to load the program(one of the secondary systems. not the main one. And with this it takes at least a min. It slows stuff down so much that i cant work. So i gotta find a new option or just go single. but that makes it hard for multiple salesmen/office workers to stay on the same page.
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Old 12-23-2003, 08:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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ok here is what im looking into getting.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...=BROWSE&depa=1
as my acess point. Now that has 4 ethernet ports on back. but i have 5 computers already set up and print server and a small NAS. How would i get all of these. Is there a way to hook the hub i already have into it? its a 8 port hub. I've herd you do this with a cross over cable but i have never seen one.
also will any wireless NIC work with this access point, or is there a sertain type i need?
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Old 12-23-2003, 08:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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is your 100 foot wire an el cheapo ? check its actually rated for cat5 or better.

shouldn't have any noticeable slowdown at 100ft, look at the advanced options in the network connection see if its getting a lot of errors.

also cheap ethernet cards could be a problem.

not all wireless nics work well with all AP's, i try to stick to one or two brands. i have linksys, intel and prism/orinocco here (with an airport card) i get occasional drops the worst i had was a belkin-prism card and AP, crap on a stick that was..

you'd probably more than likely want a wireless access point vs a wireless router if you already have a router, most APs have an 'uplink' port, which is wired differently and allows you to add to another hub/switch/router without a cross over cable(which are readily available if you need one) i don't think i've seen one that doesnt have an uplink port in a while.
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Old 12-23-2003, 08:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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ahh so just buy a AP that one uplink port and plug that right into my hub?
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Old 12-23-2003, 09:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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100 meters? I guess my CET teacher in high school and my CS teacher in college are wrong. I thought that 100 feet was a bit too short! Thanks for the info.

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Old 12-24-2003, 08:45 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hey, you could also look at ethernet-over-power-line solutions. There are a couple of vendors who make devices that plug into the wall, take a Cat-5 from your router, and provide ethernet service at any outlet in your house.
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Old 12-24-2003, 09:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
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this is a business with 2 big services. We have alot of machines that run off 440 volt. Would that still be usable?
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Old 12-24-2003, 02:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Smackre, the wireless signal is going to have an awful hard time punching through that 3foot thick brick wall. Its not going to be any faster than your existing solution -- particularlly because 802.11b is naturally slower than 802.3 ethernet. That's just the way it is. You need to figure out what's going on with your existing setup instead of throwing more money into another slow solution.
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Old 12-24-2003, 02:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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BTW, you can't use a surge protector with a power line network (http://att.com.com/4520-3244_7-50213...7-8-20656842-4)

Have fun with that.
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Old 12-24-2003, 03:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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alot of serg protoctors have a ethernet part so couldnt u just plug it into the wall and then into the serg protector b4 it get to the comp?
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Old 12-24-2003, 07:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If you use a wireless network at a buisness, make sure it is protected with WPA and a 20 character or more passphrase, or else someone will be able to hack in wirhout much trouble. Also, wireless isn't going to be too happy about going through a 3 foot brick wall. FYI, there's some gear out there that will do 108Mbps, raw data rate, though I do not know what thruput is like on such gear.
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Old 12-25-2003, 04:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I think you're just asking for more trouble, that's all. Like we all said in the beginning, you should attempt a new router rather than going out and buying $1000 in relatively untested technology.

I thought we had established that you were going to try it with a 10base100 hub in place of your current router?

Moreover, how are "opening quickbooks"? Are you attempting to open a database file (note the italics) across the network? If so, there are software solutions to this problem that would keep both servers up to date (to whatever interval you chose) with the current database file. On the otherhand, if you are attempting to transfer the entire Quickbooks program over the network to open on the other machine, then it will inherently be slower. Paint me a picture of the entire scenario and I _will_ find you a solution.
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Old 12-25-2003, 04:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The way I have this imagined, is that you have the database on the SAN and the 2 workstations pulling that file and working from there. Then, they save the file back to the SAN when they are finished.

You could setup a data backup program to periodically copy the database file hosted on your SAN onto the 2 local harddrives. You would then open the files locally and save remotely.

Not sure how you have things setup.
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Old 12-25-2003, 05:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Just had another thought ... did you use shielded CAT5 cable for the 100' run? If you are running the machinery that you mentioned, there is a possibility that interference is acting on the line. Does the 100' run move within magnetic range of the machinery?

There's also the option of Gigabit ethernet that runs on the same cat5 cable. So, if you're up to changing out some PCI cards and router, that might be an option for you.
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Old 12-25-2003, 05:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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no it runs on a diffrent floor. there is a possability that it maybe interfear between the floots but most likely not.
i would like to learn about these other software solutions that u mention tritium. Atm im just using quickbooks multi user mode. Which i realy dont like beacuse it resticts some places only the main user can go into. So Sometimes other office workers can not locate sertain parts they need. So let me know what software i should be looking into. That idea would make it faster for everone and make to so everone can go into all parts of quickbooks.
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Old 12-25-2003, 10:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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What you are looking for, Smackre, is something generally termed "data synchronization" and there are many different options under this genre that might fit your needs. Without seeing, in person, your setup its hard to totally understand what it is that you are trying to do. However, based on our conversations, I feel that something along the lines of "Save-n-Sync" would fit the bill nicely (http://download.com.com/3000-2242-10...l?tag=lst-0-11). There are many other alternatives at download.com -- most, fortunately, with trial versions. I think you'll find them all running within your price range (based on my observations and your willingness to purchase a WAP).

In any case, I found Save-n-Sync to be among the most attractive of the software suites available on download.com primarily because of its ability to utilize shared network drives and real-time operation (versus scheduling tasks to run in 10 minute intervals, for example).

It isn't the only choice, however, and I admit that I've never used this particular software package before. I did commit myself to the download and it does appear to be in line with my expectations -- and hopefully your's.

For the sake of impartiality, I have included the full listing of my search results. You'll be looking for the data backup and sync solutions, and, naturally, not the software pertaining to accurate desktop clock settings.

http://download.com.com/3120-20-0.ht...ion&tg=dl-2001
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Old 12-25-2003, 10:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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That'll address the concern of keeping the data up-to-date among the PCs that require it. I'll research a little further the implications multi-user mode. Ideally, you would be able to log into both PCs simultaneously with the primary account and have the data sync software copy the changes between the 2 PCs quietly in the background.
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Old 12-25-2003, 11:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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thank you tritium you have been a great help. I will be looking into that software after the holidays when i get back from vacation. And back to the office. I will let you know what i find out.
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Old 12-26-2003, 12:02 AM   #31 (permalink)
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i played around with it for a while. The only problem i see is. Is that all the files need like combind. Say someone makes a change on the main computer and someone makes a change on a diffrent computer in a diffrent area. how is both changes gonna be put togeter. Beacuse one of the files are going to be replaced. So yeah you can have the same file on all the computers. But as far as i can see you can not edit that file and have it recorded on all the computers. And since we have 4 diffrent secrateries and 3 salesmen all adding stuff all day. Now i may be wrong. let me know what you think
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Old 12-26-2003, 10:45 AM   #32 (permalink)
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If they all added entries at precisely the same moment -- and I mean _exactly_ (to the 1/1000th nanosecond) then their might be an issue. How many secondary systems are there?

Have you considered a program other than Quickbooks? http://www.marketplace.intuit.com/Ap...168&CatID=#FAQ

That driver enables Excel, Access, Visual Basic, etc. to use the DBMS file format that QuickBooks uses... maybe excel would open quicker? You could use Quickbooks on your primary machine, but use the dirver and Excel (for example) on your secondary machines.
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Old 12-26-2003, 09:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
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i think im understanding those programs wrong. Because from what i seen. the main computers files would be transfered to all the other computers when ever you want it to. Well if soemone adds something. then ten min. later when the system tells it self to transfer to all the secondary computers wouldnt that added part be lost? We have around 10 computers runing quickbooks but i realy only need 4 of them to be all networked. The rest are for seperate operations that are totaly diffrent.

I realy dont wanna change programs because i paid for most of my employes to be trained on quickbooks and it would be a waste of all that money and time. Yes files may change over but we would need to change programs and that i dont think is a option at this time.
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Old 12-26-2003, 11:25 PM   #34 (permalink)
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That one program I sent you the link for did things in realtime .... so there is no waiting 10minutes for it to transfer. It goes off as the file is editted.
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Old 12-28-2003, 12:21 PM   #35 (permalink)
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ok let me look into it somemore and see if i like it.
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Old 12-28-2003, 12:40 PM   #36 (permalink)
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i played with it and cant seem to get it to automaticly do this. Ever time i had to hit run ever time
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