Question to Gentoo users - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

digby · 11-23-2003, 04:39 PM

I'm doing a little personal research into Linux just to satisfy my own curiosity. I was reading about Gentoo and I see a lot of people talk about portage. What exactly is it, and what makes it so great? Also, why hasn't it been included with other distros?
Thanks for the help.

SecretMethod70 · 11-23-2003, 05:24 PM

From "Gentoo Linux - About Gentoo Linux" (<a href="http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml">LINK</a>):

Quote:

What is Portage?

Portage is the heart of Gentoo Linux, and performs many key functions. For one, Portage is the software distribution system for Gentoo Linux. To get the latest software for Gentoo Linux, you type one command: emerge sync. This command tells Portage to update your local "Portage tree" over the Internet. Your local Portage tree contains a complete collection of scripts that can be used by Portage to create and install the latest Gentoo packages. Currently, we have over 4000 packages in our Portage tree, with new ones being added all the time.

Portage is also a package building and installation system. When you want to install a package, you type emerge packagename, at which point Portage automatically builds a custom version of the package to your exact specifications, optimizing it for your hardware and ensuring that the optional features in the the package that you want are enabled -- and those you don't want aren't.

Portage also keeps your system up-to-date. Typing emerge -u world -- one command -- will ensure that all the packages that you want on your system are updated automatically.

As to why it hasn't been included into other distros? I'm not entirely sure. I haven't looked into it since I use Gentoo, but I do think that portage can be installed on other distros.

As far as my own personal answer as to what makes portage so great - since what I quoted does a better job of just explaining what it does - it goes beyond the ease of typing one command to install most things. Another reason it's great - and this goes for Gentoo Linux as a whole as well - is the fact that everything I install I compile from scratch and, because of that, everything gets to be compiled with the specifications I lay out. For example, if I know I will never use something, I can make sure that support for that isn't compiled in - helping to make everything nice and lean.

sprocket · 11-23-2003, 05:37 PM

Portage is a package delivery/management system developed by gentoo, modelled after Ports (BSDs Packaging system). They work almost identically.

Its a pretty powerful/easy way to install, manage and remove software that is part of gentoo's portage tree. The one thing that sets portage/ports apart from other distributions package management is that it can download a package, any dependancies it has, compile the package from source and install it with one step. If you want to build your packages from source on other distros you usually must take another step. Gentoo die hard fans claim that building it from source can enhance performance, but dont expect to see any performance benifits unless you take lots of time to tweak compile time options. It can also be a drag waiting for large programs to compile but I beleive you have the option with portage to install binaries.

Its not in other distros because, well, gentoo was basically the first distro to be designed around a packaging system like portage. Other distros are pretty entrenched in their version of package management/installation. Red Hat uses RPM and up2date (or apt-get or YUM), Debian is built around apt-get/debs. Pretty much every distro has its own unique way to install and manage packages each with its own pros and cons.

sailor · 11-24-2003, 01:41 PM

Portage is a good thing. However, Gentoo is not exactly the most newbie-friendly distro. If you want to poke around, try Knoppix, which runs completely off of a CD, meaning you can run it on a Windows machine without harming the windows install, or Mandrake. Red Hat (now Fedora) is also a good distro to play around with if you have a dedicated machine to install them to.

SecretMethod70 · 11-24-2003, 03:39 PM

sailor said it right - Gentoo is NOT a newbie-friendly distro. I, too, recommend starting out with Knoppix or, if you have the space to dual boot or have an extra hard drive, Mandrake.

Also, some highly suggested reading:

http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux
http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux
http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux
http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux

digby · 11-26-2003, 09:56 AM

Don't worry, I have no intention of starting with gentoo. I've been in the process of trying to get Knoppix to work for a while. I keep having trouble with the iso file. It never seems to burn right. I'll figure it out sooner or later though. Thanks for the info, guys.

sailor · 11-26-2003, 10:11 AM

Check the MD5 sum. On the Knoppix site, or wherever you downloaded it from, there should be a .md5 file or a string of numbers that is the MD5 sum. There is software for Windows (I dont know its name, but it is out there--search for it) that will then compare the sum to the file--if they dont match up, the file is corrupt. It sounds like you have a corrupt iso.

Holo · 11-26-2003, 12:45 PM

I must disagree with recommendation for Red Hat-Fedora and Mandrake. I believe SuSE is the best newbie distro as it generally has better hw support and detection than they do and it gets out of yourw ay when you want to do something a bit advanced...plus it has a windows-update like thing that allows you to install and update packages easily. I've used SuSE since 7.2 and I've loved it every time.

digby · 11-26-2003, 01:37 PM

ok, I'm trying to figure out how to make this md5 thing work. I have the .iso file, a 65 byte .md5 file by the same name, and md5.exe that I found with a google search. I can't seem to get the command syntax correct. Everything I've tried gives me the error message:

Error in signature specification. Must be 32 hex digits.

Suggestions?

11-23-2003, 04:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
digby Crazy Location: Ahh, the lovely South	Question to Gentoo users I'm doing a little personal research into Linux just to satisfy my own curiosity. I was reading about Gentoo and I see a lot of people talk about portage. What exactly is it, and what makes it so great? Also, why hasn't it been included with other distros? Thanks for the help. __________________ mmmm.... pudding

11-23-2003, 05:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
sprocket Psycho Location: In transit	Portage is a package delivery/management system developed by gentoo, modelled after Ports (BSDs Packaging system). They work almost identically. Its a pretty powerful/easy way to install, manage and remove software that is part of gentoo's portage tree. The one thing that sets portage/ports apart from other distributions package management is that it can download a package, any dependancies it has, compile the package from source and install it with one step. If you want to build your packages from source on other distros you usually must take another step. Gentoo die hard fans claim that building it from source can enhance performance, but dont expect to see any performance benifits unless you take lots of time to tweak compile time options. It can also be a drag waiting for large programs to compile but I beleive you have the option with portage to install binaries. Its not in other distros because, well, gentoo was basically the first distro to be designed around a packaging system like portage. Other distros are pretty entrenched in their version of package management/installation. Red Hat uses RPM and up2date (or apt-get or YUM), Debian is built around apt-get/debs. Pretty much every distro has its own unique way to install and manage packages each with its own pros and cons. __________________ Remember, wherever you go... there you are.

11-24-2003, 01:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Portage is a good thing. However, Gentoo is not exactly the most newbie-friendly distro. If you want to poke around, try Knoppix, which runs completely off of a CD, meaning you can run it on a Windows machine without harming the windows install, or Mandrake. Red Hat (now Fedora) is also a good distro to play around with if you have a dedicated machine to install them to. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

11-24-2003, 03:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	sailor said it right - Gentoo is NOT a newbie-friendly distro. I, too, recommend starting out with Knoppix or, if you have the space to dual boot or have an extra hard drive, Mandrake. Also, some highly suggested reading: http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ighlight=linux __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

11-26-2003, 09:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
digby Crazy Location: Ahh, the lovely South	Don't worry, I have no intention of starting with gentoo. I've been in the process of trying to get Knoppix to work for a while. I keep having trouble with the iso file. It never seems to burn right. I'll figure it out sooner or later though. Thanks for the info, guys. __________________ mmmm.... pudding

11-26-2003, 10:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Check the MD5 sum. On the Knoppix site, or wherever you downloaded it from, there should be a .md5 file or a string of numbers that is the MD5 sum. There is software for Windows (I dont know its name, but it is out there--search for it) that will then compare the sum to the file--if they dont match up, the file is corrupt. It sounds like you have a corrupt iso. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

11-26-2003, 12:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Holo A Real American	I must disagree with recommendation for Red Hat-Fedora and Mandrake. I believe SuSE is the best newbie distro as it generally has better hw support and detection than they do and it gets out of yourw ay when you want to do something a bit advanced...plus it has a windows-update like thing that allows you to install and update packages easily. I've used SuSE since 7.2 and I've loved it every time. __________________ I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

11-26-2003, 01:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
digby Crazy Location: Ahh, the lovely South	ok, I'm trying to figure out how to make this md5 thing work. I have the .iso file, a 65 byte .md5 file by the same name, and md5.exe that I found with a google search. I can't seem to get the command syntax correct. Everything I've tried gives me the error message: Error in signature specification. Must be 32 hex digits. Suggestions? __________________ mmmm.... pudding