Calling system builders - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

arch13 · 11-03-2003, 08:49 PM

I've got a problem and i'm hoping my fellow system builders can help find a quick solution to this just slightly not an emergency situation.
My fathers buisness systems have all been running Ai61 shuttle mainboards with 800mhx slot a cpu's for the last four years. 14 of these 15 machines have never failed once. The 15th however, finally met an untimley demise out my fathers 15th floor office window into the next door empty lot (thank god for that empty lot) after he finally lost it with the poor computer today.

Needless to say this cannot go on.

My fathers rageing inability to control anger at electronics aside, he needs a new system and fast to stay in buisness.
I've taught him well and he understands perfectly well how to build a machine from the ground up, though he dislikes doing so.
I know he can build whatever i tell him to get just fine, but there lies the issue. What do i tell him to get?
He's of the opinion that a computer should be like a toaster. i should always work. he doesn't want to overclock, he doesn't want to fidddle with settings after setup, he just wants something he can spend a full day making and testing, and never have to consider that it might not turn on for at least the next four years.

He's got a budget of around 600.00 at max and i think i've got a fairly decent sounding setup to propose. I want to run it by you guys for foolproof computing opinions and also get some suggestions for what you might recomend instead or in addition to what i'm suggesting.

The suggestion is:
MSI kt3 ultra2 w/o bluetooth + athlon xp 2100
1 stick of kingston ddr 2700 512mb memory
creative or sony cdr for less than 50.00 (suggestions are appreciated)
Generic IBM floppy
generic tigerdirect 350watt gray case w/ upfront Usb ports
maxtor retail 60gb drive (for warranty)
UsRobotics hardware modem 56k

The Msi board is a pain in setup and peripheral connections but has Usb 2.0 and onboard audio which he could care less about so that's one less thing to buy.
The board has been around long enough to have been longterm tested and it's stability at least partialy known. I'm running one with a 2100 athlonXP and the same 512mb stick and have never had a problem or sudden restart, bsod, etc in 3 years.
I'm trying for rock solid stability without a need to upgrade latter or amp up on power. This just needs to be able to run Wordperfect, IE, and adobe viewer without having more than slight slowdowns.
The most crucial part is that the board can't have lingering issues with any driver it may choke on or hardware it may conflict with. sadly, i tinker often so i can't vouch for this at current.

So what do you guys think he should build? What comes to mind for you when you think of rock solid and dependable for an AMD motherboard setup? (no, where not going to have 14 amd's and one Intel, sorry)
Thanks for any opions on the matter.

urbandev · 11-04-2003, 05:17 AM

intel is too overproced anyway... sounds like a good setup to me.
i noticed the lack of responses...
if you want more opinions try www.overclockersforums.com (no, not everyone there OCs everything)

Jesus Pimp · 11-04-2003, 07:25 AM

Just build him and XPC and be done with it.

steveincolumbus · 11-04-2003, 09:46 AM

I would stay away from maxtor HDD if I wanted it to be dependable, go with WD.
Make sure you get a decent pwer supply....

drawerfixer · 11-04-2003, 09:56 AM

Did you include the price of an operating system, or do you have a copy lying around?

arch13 · 11-04-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by drawerfixer
Did you include the price of an operating system, or do you have a copy lying around?

I have copies of windows 2k and XP, though I'll probably move him to XP for more "toaster" like ease of use.
What worries me is getting a setup that is rock solid and isn't prone to conflicts, hardware or otherwise.

sailor · 11-04-2003, 10:36 AM

Even better, dont build one at all. Wait for a Dell or something to come around. People who dont know how or dont want to fix their machines should *not* build them. Things break. Machines built from a large distributor have had all of the components tested in able to ensure that they all function together well, and if something breaks, there is always someone to call.

You can easily get a very good machine for $600. Check sites like Techbargains.com for Dell deals.

poof · 11-04-2003, 03:35 PM

Get a ready made machine as mentioned above, or, go to <a href="http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Main.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=">mwave</a> and get a bundled mboard, cpu, ram pretested and put it in <strike>his old case</strike> a new case with the other stuff you wanted. He gets a nice warranty and knows it works when he installs the tested unit.

Lasereth · 11-04-2003, 04:20 PM

If you want NO problems with a new computer, Dell is really the only way to go. I've never built a PC from scratch that had no problems, even though it's way more powerful and cheaper than a Dell for the performance/price ratio.

If you really want to build a solid Athlon XP, system, I recommend the following:
<UL>
<LI>Abit NF7-S Rev. 2.0 (Extremely good on-board sound, USB 2.0, on-board LAN)
<LI>AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton (1.8 GHz)
<LI>GeForce 4 TI4200 64 MB
<LI>40 or 60 GB Maxtor 7200 RPM HDD
<LI>US Robotics Standard 56k Modem
<LI>CyberDrive 62x24x52 CD Burner
<LI>512 MB Kingston PC2700 DDR-RAM
<LI>Generic Case with 350w PSU
<LI>Generic Floppy Drive
</UL>

That should put you at about US $500 max. But like I said before, this computer would be better than what Dell has to offer, but it has no warranty, customer support, or guarantee of hassle-free use. If you put it working 100% of the time at the top of the list, then I wouldn't go custom-built. Fixing a built from scratch PC is half the fun (sometimes), but in your dad's case it doesn't sound like he wants to be fixing another computer.

Good luck!

-Lasereth

arch13 · 11-04-2003, 05:10 PM

Thanks for the list Lasereth! that's what i'm looking for, suggestions of rock solid machinery.
I don'y mean to sound as if i want something that never needs to be opened, as even he like to fiddle around and build himself, but he lost it because he turned it off friday to go home and it worked fine, and would not post monday morning even after 3.5 hrs of trying the standard stuff we all do when a system un-expectantly doesn't post.
He sent me an email about THIS barebones setup from Tigerdirect and i must admit to being impressed with all that it offers for that price. Tigers heaquarters is about 5 minutes from our house and we have family freinds working their, so he feels like their a good company and turns there first, whereas i turn to good ol' pricewatch

I'm going to take a look at that board though lasereth, as it may represent a betterdeal.

Thanks for the responses so far everybody! More are always appreciated.

hy_ · 11-04-2003, 05:47 PM

Here is my suggestion for an office computer:

ABIT NF7-S Rev2
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (anything over if budget allows)
ASUS GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB
80 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM HDD
Lite-On 62x24x52 CD Burner
512 MB Kingston PC2700 DDR-RAM
a 350w PSU

*similar to Lasereth's build but my build imo has a better range towards longevity.

urbandev · 11-05-2003, 03:23 AM

SUGGESTION:
dont use any copy of any windows os just laying around, it has to be a legal copy if its in a place of bussiness, or he can get in deep shit.
Just something to think about

and dell may have shitty parts but they are reliable and if it breaks, the blames not on you.
but if youre into expirimenting and he wants to learn how to do it then go for building one.

anyway, go back to the top of this reply and think about it

Sion · 11-05-2003, 05:48 AM

" Tigers heaquarters is about 5 minutes from our house and we have family freinds working their, so he feels like their a good company and turns there first, whereas i turn to good ol' pricewatch"

no offense intended to your family and friends, BUT I have never heard a good word about tigerdirect. I personally know half a dozen people, my mother included, who have nothing but bad experiences with them, from shitty customer service to getting the wrong parts versus what was ordered. i've also seen lots of BB posts from others saying essentially the same thing.

now, the fact that you know people that work there would suggest that you might not have those problems. but unfortunately most dont have that advantage.

arch13 · 11-05-2003, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sion
no offense intended to your family and friends, BUT I have never heard a good word about tigerdirect. I personally know half a dozen people, my mother included, who have nothing but bad experiences with them, from shitty customer service to getting the wrong parts versus what was ordered. i've also seen lots of BB posts from others saying essentially the same thing.

now, the fact that you know people that work there would suggest that you might not have those problems. but unfortunately most dont have that advantage.

Tiger has customer service? Their an OEM distributer like most pricewatch advertisers, so i never expect any customer service about a part if it breaks after the first two weeks.
Quite frankly, i always see it as the inherent gamble of buying OEM products.

And Urbandev, I'd just use the copies i already have and buy another liscense/COA from a reseller instead of buying another retail package.

Thanks everybody for the replies.

oberon · 11-05-2003, 06:15 AM

I think WD disks are just as prone to crapping out as Maxtor ones, IDE wise anyhow.

I agree with the people who say that people who think computers should be like simple appliances (e.g. toaster, microwave, etc.) should get their computers from a manufacturer. Check out gotapex.com and see if a good deal comes up from Dell:

http://www.gotapex.com/deals.php

It's also my personal opinion that people who believe computers are simple appliances are, well, slightly deluded.

But if they hire people to make it so, so be it.

arch13 · 11-05-2003, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oberon
It's also my personal opinion that people who believe computers are simple appliances are, well, slightly deluded.

But if they hire people to make it so, so be it.

I always tell him that, and his response has always been "yea i know their not simply components, but it can be made to just work simply but well through a good setup without inherent conflict".
Or more to the point, the fact is the mass distributers like dell and compaq have convinced the world for marketing purposes that it is a toaster in order to sell more, so now we're all stuck with that mass consumer misconception
I do agree that many manufacturers don't follow the form and spirit of the industry standards enough that many oem products are buggy and conflicting as all hell though. there's something just wrong about the fact everyone knows you wait for revision "A" o via chipsets before buying any board with that chipset. It's company behaviour that supports things like that the make it very hard to build a good system sometimes.

losthellhound · 11-05-2003, 05:37 PM

I agree with Lasereth's configuration.. BUT, if he has a habit of launching computers then be careful no matter what

Might want to make sure that you find somewhere in the budget for a UPS. The system might have been fine, just with a shaky power outlet

philthy · 11-08-2003, 08:02 PM

For AMD processors, I have had good experiences with Epox motherboards. Only 1 jumper to set, which is the clock multiplier. very much plug and play from there. been running 4 of them for 1.5 yrs w/o trouble.

There is something to be said for buying a Dell. warranty and cross-shipping replacement parts (power supply, etc) is nice. If it were me I would buy the cheapest Dell that would do the job, because the hardware is fairly proprietary, thus it's going to be less of a candidate for much in the way of upgrades, making it even more disposable than a built-from-scratch.

If you're looking to build a system, you must check out NewEgg.com . My 1st hand built pc was made of components that I chose based on recommendations/ratings on NewEgg. have never been happier. Not to mention their prices and selection are unbeatable.

--just my 2p

11-03-2003, 08:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	Calling system builders I've got a problem and i'm hoping my fellow system builders can help find a quick solution to this just slightly not an emergency situation. My fathers buisness systems have all been running Ai61 shuttle mainboards with 800mhx slot a cpu's for the last four years. 14 of these 15 machines have never failed once. The 15th however, finally met an untimley demise out my fathers 15th floor office window into the next door empty lot (thank god for that empty lot) after he finally lost it with the poor computer today. Needless to say this cannot go on. My fathers rageing inability to control anger at electronics aside, he needs a new system and fast to stay in buisness. I've taught him well and he understands perfectly well how to build a machine from the ground up, though he dislikes doing so. I know he can build whatever i tell him to get just fine, but there lies the issue. What do i tell him to get? He's of the opinion that a computer should be like a toaster. i should always work. he doesn't want to overclock, he doesn't want to fidddle with settings after setup, he just wants something he can spend a full day making and testing, and never have to consider that it might not turn on for at least the next four years. He's got a budget of around 600.00 at max and i think i've got a fairly decent sounding setup to propose. I want to run it by you guys for foolproof computing opinions and also get some suggestions for what you might recomend instead or in addition to what i'm suggesting. The suggestion is: MSI kt3 ultra2 w/o bluetooth + athlon xp 2100 1 stick of kingston ddr 2700 512mb memory creative or sony cdr for less than 50.00 (suggestions are appreciated) Generic IBM floppy generic tigerdirect 350watt gray case w/ upfront Usb ports maxtor retail 60gb drive (for warranty) UsRobotics hardware modem 56k The Msi board is a pain in setup and peripheral connections but has Usb 2.0 and onboard audio which he could care less about so that's one less thing to buy. The board has been around long enough to have been longterm tested and it's stability at least partialy known. I'm running one with a 2100 athlonXP and the same 512mb stick and have never had a problem or sudden restart, bsod, etc in 3 years. I'm trying for rock solid stability without a need to upgrade latter or amp up on power. This just needs to be able to run Wordperfect, IE, and adobe viewer without having more than slight slowdowns. The most crucial part is that the board can't have lingering issues with any driver it may choke on or hardware it may conflict with. sadly, i tinker often so i can't vouch for this at current. So what do you guys think he should build? What comes to mind for you when you think of rock solid and dependable for an AMD motherboard setup? (no, where not going to have 14 amd's and one Intel, sorry) Thanks for any opions on the matter. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

11-04-2003, 05:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
urbandev Insane Location: Dayton, NV	intel is too overproced anyway... sounds like a good setup to me. i noticed the lack of responses... if you want more opinions try www.overclockersforums.com (no, not everyone there OCs everything) __________________ Raoul Duke: "I wouldn't dare go to sleep with you wandering around with a head full of acid, wanting to slice me up with that goddamn knife." Dr. Gonzo: "Who said anything about slicing you up, man. I just wanted to cut a little Z in your forehead."

11-04-2003, 07:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jesus Pimp The Original JizzSmacka	Just build him and XPC and be done with it. __________________ Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

11-04-2003, 09:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
drawerfixer Stonerific Location: Colorado	Did you include the price of an operating system, or do you have a copy lying around? __________________ They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

11-04-2003, 10:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Even better, dont build one at all. Wait for a Dell or something to come around. People who dont know how or dont want to fix their machines should not build them. Things break. Machines built from a large distributor have had all of the components tested in able to ensure that they all function together well, and if something breaks, there is always someone to call. You can easily get a very good machine for $600. Check sites like Techbargains.com for Dell deals. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

11-04-2003, 09:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
steveincolumbus Psycho Location: BFE, Kentucky	I would stay away from maxtor HDD if I wanted it to be dependable, go with WD. Make sure you get a decent pwer supply....

11-04-2003, 03:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
poof Psycho	Get a ready made machine as mentioned above, or, go to <a href="http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Main.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=">mwave</a> and get a bundled mboard, cpu, ram pretested and put it in <strike>his old case</strike> a new case with the other stuff you wanted. He gets a nice warranty and knows it works when he installs the tested unit.

11-04-2003, 04:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	If you want NO problems with a new computer, Dell is really the only way to go. I've never built a PC from scratch that had no problems, even though it's way more powerful and cheaper than a Dell for the performance/price ratio. If you really want to build a solid Athlon XP, system, I recommend the following: <UL> <LI>Abit NF7-S Rev. 2.0 (Extremely good on-board sound, USB 2.0, on-board LAN) <LI>AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton (1.8 GHz) <LI>GeForce 4 TI4200 64 MB <LI>40 or 60 GB Maxtor 7200 RPM HDD <LI>US Robotics Standard 56k Modem <LI>CyberDrive 62x24x52 CD Burner <LI>512 MB Kingston PC2700 DDR-RAM <LI>Generic Case with 350w PSU <LI>Generic Floppy Drive </UL> That should put you at about US $500 max. But like I said before, this computer would be better than what Dell has to offer, but it has no warranty, customer support, or guarantee of hassle-free use. If you put it working 100% of the time at the top of the list, then I wouldn't go custom-built. Fixing a built from scratch PC is half the fun (sometimes), but in your dad's case it doesn't sound like he wants to be fixing another computer. Good luck! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

11-04-2003, 05:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	Thanks for the list Lasereth! that's what i'm looking for, suggestions of rock solid machinery. I don'y mean to sound as if i want something that never needs to be opened, as even he like to fiddle around and build himself, but he lost it because he turned it off friday to go home and it worked fine, and would not post monday morning even after 3.5 hrs of trying the standard stuff we all do when a system un-expectantly doesn't post. He sent me an email about THIS barebones setup from Tigerdirect and i must admit to being impressed with all that it offers for that price. Tigers heaquarters is about 5 minutes from our house and we have family freinds working their, so he feels like their a good company and turns there first, whereas i turn to good ol' pricewatch I'm going to take a look at that board though lasereth, as it may represent a betterdeal. Thanks for the responses so far everybody! More are always appreciated. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

11-04-2003, 05:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
hy_ Crazy	Here is my suggestion for an office computer: ABIT NF7-S Rev2 AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (anything over if budget allows) ASUS GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB 80 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM HDD Lite-On 62x24x52 CD Burner 512 MB Kingston PC2700 DDR-RAM a 350w PSU similar to Lasereth's build but my build imo has a better range towards longevity. Last edited by hy_; 11-04-2003 at 05:51 PM..*

11-05-2003, 03:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
urbandev Insane Location: Dayton, NV	SUGGESTION: dont use any copy of any windows os just laying around, it has to be a legal copy if its in a place of bussiness, or he can get in deep shit. Just something to think about and dell may have shitty parts but they are reliable and if it breaks, the blames not on you. but if youre into expirimenting and he wants to learn how to do it then go for building one. anyway, go back to the top of this reply and think about it __________________ Raoul Duke: "I wouldn't dare go to sleep with you wandering around with a head full of acid, wanting to slice me up with that goddamn knife." Dr. Gonzo: "Who said anything about slicing you up, man. I just wanted to cut a little Z in your forehead."

11-05-2003, 05:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	" Tigers heaquarters is about 5 minutes from our house and we have family freinds working their, so he feels like their a good company and turns there first, whereas i turn to good ol' pricewatch" no offense intended to your family and friends, BUT I have never heard a good word about tigerdirect. I personally know half a dozen people, my mother included, who have nothing but bad experiences with them, from shitty customer service to getting the wrong parts versus what was ordered. i've also seen lots of BB posts from others saying essentially the same thing. now, the fact that you know people that work there would suggest that you might not have those problems. but unfortunately most dont have that advantage. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

11-05-2003, 06:15 AM	#15 (permalink)
oberon Quadrature Amplitude Modulator Location: Denver	I think WD disks are just as prone to crapping out as Maxtor ones, IDE wise anyhow. I agree with the people who say that people who think computers should be like simple appliances (e.g. toaster, microwave, etc.) should get their computers from a manufacturer. Check out gotapex.com and see if a good deal comes up from Dell: http://www.gotapex.com/deals.php It's also my personal opinion that people who believe computers are simple appliances are, well, slightly deluded. But if they hire people to make it so, so be it. __________________ "There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb

11-05-2003, 05:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
losthellhound Thats MR. Muffin Face now Location: Everywhere work sends me	I agree with Lasereth's configuration.. BUT, if he has a habit of launching computers then be careful no matter what Might want to make sure that you find somewhere in the budget for a UPS. The system might have been fine, just with a shaky power outlet __________________ "Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?" -- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death

11-08-2003, 08:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
philthy Upright	For AMD processors, I have had good experiences with Epox motherboards. Only 1 jumper to set, which is the clock multiplier. very much plug and play from there. been running 4 of them for 1.5 yrs w/o trouble. There is something to be said for buying a Dell. warranty and cross-shipping replacement parts (power supply, etc) is nice. If it were me I would buy the cheapest Dell that would do the job, because the hardware is fairly proprietary, thus it's going to be less of a candidate for much in the way of upgrades, making it even more disposable than a built-from-scratch. If you're looking to build a system, you must check out NewEgg.com . My 1st hand built pc was made of components that I chose based on recommendations/ratings on NewEgg. have never been happier. Not to mention their prices and selection are unbeatable. --just my 2p __________________ Lez be friends.