Panther - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

fishin · 10-28-2003, 08:25 PM

If you are using OS 10.3, post here...

merkerguitars · 10-28-2003, 09:54 PM

Actually roomate using it.......haven't got to mess with it much but it does have some interesting features

Redlemon · 10-29-2003, 06:39 AM

Not touching it until they figure out what's going on with the external firewire drives. But, I can't wait, it looks like a lot of fun in there.

LNCPapa · 10-29-2003, 06:50 AM

What do you mean about external firewire drives? I've been using a developer's preview for some time now and I don't have probs with firewire. Can you post a bit more info about this problem? I wanna make sure I don't run into any problems with it later.

Redlemon · 10-29-2003, 06:54 AM

Check out Macintouch.com, there have been a bunch of reports where if you don't dismount your firewire drive before shutting down, the contents of the drive get trashed. Doesn't happen to everybody, so you are probably OK. They haven't narrowed down the problem yet.

{added}

MacFixit today has a bit more info...

Quote:

After examining these discussions and reports, it appears that there is more than one issue with FireWire-related drives. Some people are experiencing FireWire drive issues, both minor and major, that seem to be unrelated to this issue. Most of these have been reparable using utilities such as Alsoft's DiskWarrior and/or Apple's Disk Utility.

On the other hand, we have received numerous messages -- and the Apple forum thread referenced above is full of similar posts -- describing a particular situation in which the affected FireWire drive incurs severe directory damage. It will no longer mount or function on any computer, regardless of the operating system (OS 9, Jaguar, Panther, etc.), and Utilities such as DiskWarrior cannot rebuild or salvage the disk's directory. The drive is not even recoverable by installing it internally into a Mac. In most of these cases the only recourse is to use Prosoft's Data Rescue X to attempt to recover files. Reformatting the drive allows it to be used again. One MacFixIt staffer was in fact affected by this issue and lost a FireWire drive.

The constant in this latter group of reports is that the user had installed Panther on an internal drive, and then restarted with FireWire drive(s) connected. The drive(s) worked fine in Panther before the restart; it was only after the restart that the drive became unusable. So far, the issue doesn't seem to be related to manufacturer, drive size, FireWire 400 vs. 800, or how the user installed Panther (clean vs. update vs. archive) -- a wide variety of such configurations have experienced the same problem. Apple is apparently asking users affected by the problem for more details on their systems, including machine model/configuration, peripherals, and the FireWire bridge chipsets used in their FireWire drive enclosures. One reader speculated that the issue may be related to Apple's iSight, which was implicated in FireWire problems soon after its release. However, we haven't confirmed that an iSight was present with all of the reported drive failures (although our system did indeed have an iSight attached at the time). As we get more information about this issue, we'll pass it on immediately.

To be clear, this problem isn't happening to every Panther user with an external FireWire drive. However, until more information on the exact combination of factors that contributes to this issue is discovered, if you have Panther installed on your internal drive, and have one or more external Firewire hard drives connected to your Mac, we recommend unmounting and disconnecting FireWire drives before shutting down or restarting. This may be a hassle, but it seems a prudent course of action to take until Apple is able to identify the precise cause. (It appears as though reconnecting your FireWire drives after startup is safe, as we have no reports of drives being damaged at that time.)

rubicon · 10-29-2003, 08:29 AM

Friend of mine says that Virtual PC 6.1 isn't compatible. I can't find a shred of evidence of this except for the incompatibility with the new G5. But he's steadfest in saying VPC 6.1 won't work under 10.3.

Any ideas?

philthy · 11-08-2003, 08:14 PM

running it on my 1ghz 15" pwrbook. love it.

drawerfixer · 11-08-2003, 08:17 PM

It looks good, but $129 good?
I'll wait until my dad gets it free through the school.

cheerios · 11-08-2003, 09:09 PM

regarding firewire drives, see this:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire...almessage.html

in other news,I love panther, but i have no idea how it'd run on older systems. and by older I mean G3's. :shrug: Depending on what you're doing, there are some definate perks to Panther. upto and including X-11 installed by default, new dev tools (oh my goodness, they're not too shabby), vim installed by default, exposé(freakin' awesome!), and upgrades on stuff like sys-prefs. it's pretty spiffy, all told.

hulk · 11-08-2003, 09:41 PM

I'm not too sure about what Apple's doing. I've been on a mac since System 7, so I know what I'm talking about =). What I don't get is why do Apple keep changing huge amounts of the OS so often? The differences between 10.0/1/2/3 are bigger than the difference between System 7 and OS8, and we all know how long that took. The incompatability that they have when they release a new system is very-Microsofty. Anyone else seen this?

kel · 11-08-2003, 10:06 PM

I am curious about performance on G3s
specifically an iBook 800MHZ with 384 RAM
Anyone try it yet?

cheerios · 11-08-2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hulk
I'm not too sure about what Apple's doing. I've been on a mac since System 7, so I know what I'm talking about =). What I don't get is why do Apple keep changing huge amounts of the OS so often? The differences between 10.0/1/2/3 are bigger than the difference between System 7 and OS8, and we all know how long that took. The incompatability that they have when they release a new system is very-Microsofty. Anyone else seen this?

I have to admit, I "switched" just as OS X came out. i've never run os 9, BUT, Remember this is a new OS, from the bottom up. a lot of the changes, esp from .0 to .1 and less in the last 2 large jumps, were adjustments as they saw what we liked, what worked, waht didn't. you'll notice in panther, for example, they FINALLY brought back labels (I've been listening to people yell for them since the PB days!!), and when your right-click on Sys prefs, it lists all the pref screens, so you can go directly to the one you want.

Hell, maybe they're just trying to make us windows-converts a bit more at home

tikki · 11-09-2003, 12:37 AM

I have been running Panther for a while, and its awesome other than it taking down my fucking G5 every other day. Something inside gets pissy randomly when I click on the dock and beachballs every single app. Only solution is a hard restart.

If am lucky enough to get to Terminal and kill the Dock process, the system returns to normal, but my network connection is gone, so gotta restart anyway. :-\

Any ideas?

cheerios · 11-09-2003, 06:01 PM

report it to apple? I dunno what's up, although there's some suspicion (purely personal speculation) that the dock may have a memory leak... How're hte G5's behaving in general? are they (dare i say it..) snappy?

tikki · 11-09-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheerios
report it to apple? I dunno what's up, although there's some suspicion (purely personal speculation) that the dock may have a memory leak... How're hte G5's behaving in general? are they (dare i say it..) snappy?

Like a champ when the dock isn't crashing.

rubicon · 11-10-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hulk
The incompatability that they have when they release a new system is very-Microsofty. Anyone else seen this?

You must be a Mac die-hard to make a comment like that!

As much as I hate to give MS kudos, all of their operating systems since Windows 95 are backward compatible. Yes, there are some applications that have different code for 9x or XP but you can still get the correct app for your OS version - the only one I really know of is Windows Media Player. Microsoft is starting to lose their backward compatibility with Office 2003 but it's a marketing move.

In contrast, it seems that Apple has no qualms about dropping support for older an OS. Didn't you need to update your software from 7 to 8, 8 to 9, and now 9 to 10? Hell, I can't buy an Airport Extreme card for my Ti PowerBook and it's only two years old! I'll need to get a third-party card. Panther no longer includes a copy of OS 9. That's a pretty clear message, isn't it?

However, Apple has always led with innovation and it might be because they don't try and maintain compatibility with every OS. On the other hand, Microsoft has never been known as the innovator because they keep including 16-bit compatibility code.

rubicon · 11-10-2003, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by philthy
running it on my 1ghz 15" pwrbook. love it.

Thanks for the info!

chavos · 11-10-2003, 02:30 PM

still running jag, but thinking about panther. probably for x-mas or shortly afterwards when i have cash-money, baby...

i just like to give them some time to work out bugs before i leap in. Anyone run it on a non-G5 system though? I've got a g4 quicksilver system, which is decently powered...but not G5 beefy.

Redlemon · 11-10-2003, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chavos
Anyone run it on a non-G5 system though? I've got a g4 quicksilver system, which is decently powered...but not G5 beefy.

Ars Technica just gave their extensive review of Panther, and were even pleased with the improved performance on a B&W 400 mHz G3.

I'm still waiting until they figure out what is up with external Firewire 400 drives.

{EDIT} Panther 10.3.1 was just released. We'll see tomorrow what it fixes.

hulk · 11-11-2003, 06:51 AM

Most of my system-7 stuff ran all the way up to 9.0 - then 9.1 changed something which munted most of it =)

bodypainter · 11-11-2003, 03:57 PM

I put Panther on my G4/400 the Monday after it was available in the stores and installed it on my wife's DP867 yesterday.

VPC 5 works -- sort of. It's got redraw problems and is even slower than before but I did make it go. I don't give a damn, we hardly ever used it anyway.

Everything else is great. Both machines seem faster than under 10.2, especially my G4/400.

kel · 11-12-2003, 09:58 AM

Nevermind... mod please delete this post.

quadro2000 · 11-12-2003, 11:05 AM

I have it, but haven't installed it yet - for some reason I've been nervous about the install. For $5, I purchased the ebook Take Control Of Upgrading To Panther and now I feel a bit better about it. Once I archive all my, um, movies to DVD-R, I'll do the upgrade.

wezen · 11-17-2003, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kel
I am curious about performance on G3s
specifically an iBook 800MHZ with 384 RAM
Anyone try it yet?

Running on an iBook G3 800 640 MB RAM. Mild speed increase, say 15% on average. Some neat feature I'm starting to use but could live without, i.e. Expose. I like threads in e-mail but for the price.. nope. 10.2.8 was fine.

10-28-2003, 08:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
fishin Crazy	Panther If you are using OS 10.3, post here...

10-28-2003, 09:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Actually roomate using it.......haven't got to mess with it much but it does have some interesting features __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

10-29-2003, 06:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Not touching it until they figure out what's going on with the external firewire drives. But, I can't wait, it looks like a lot of fun in there. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-29-2003, 06:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
LNCPapa Crazy Location: Notre Dame	What do you mean about external firewire drives? I've been using a developer's preview for some time now and I don't have probs with firewire. Can you post a bit more info about this problem? I wanna make sure I don't run into any problems with it later. __________________ No mercy for the bandwidth impaired

10-29-2003, 08:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
rubicon Stop. Think. Question. Location: Redondo Beach, CA	Friend of mine says that Virtual PC 6.1 isn't compatible. I can't find a shred of evidence of this except for the incompatibility with the new G5. But he's steadfest in saying VPC 6.1 won't work under 10.3. Any ideas? __________________ How you do anything is how you do everything.

11-08-2003, 08:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
philthy Upright	running it on my 1ghz 15" pwrbook. love it. __________________ Lez be friends.

11-08-2003, 08:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
drawerfixer Stonerific Location: Colorado	It looks good, but $129 good? I'll wait until my dad gets it free through the school. __________________ They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

11-08-2003, 09:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
cheerios Banned Location: 'bout 2 feet from my iMac	regarding firewire drives, see this: http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire...almessage.html in other news,I love panther, but i have no idea how it'd run on older systems. and by older I mean G3's. :shrug: Depending on what you're doing, there are some definate perks to Panther. upto and including X-11 installed by default, new dev tools (oh my goodness, they're not too shabby), vim installed by default, exposé(freakin' awesome!), and upgrades on stuff like sys-prefs. it's pretty spiffy, all told. Last edited by cheerios; 11-08-2003 at 09:17 PM..

11-08-2003, 09:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	I'm not too sure about what Apple's doing. I've been on a mac since System 7, so I know what I'm talking about =). What I don't get is why do Apple keep changing huge amounts of the OS so often? The differences between 10.0/1/2/3 are bigger than the difference between System 7 and OS8, and we all know how long that took. The incompatability that they have when they release a new system is very-Microsofty. Anyone else seen this? __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

11-08-2003, 10:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	I am curious about performance on G3s specifically an iBook 800MHZ with 384 RAM Anyone try it yet? __________________ "It better be funny"

11-09-2003, 12:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
tikki Justified Location: West Lafayette, IN	I have been running Panther for a while, and its awesome other than it taking down my fucking G5 every other day. Something inside gets pissy randomly when I click on the dock and beachballs every single app. Only solution is a hard restart. If am lucky enough to get to Terminal and kill the Dock process, the system returns to normal, but my network connection is gone, so gotta restart anyway. :-\ Any ideas? __________________ Take notice. Take interest. Take me with you.

11-09-2003, 06:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
cheerios Banned Location: 'bout 2 feet from my iMac	report it to apple? I dunno what's up, although there's some suspicion (purely personal speculation) that the dock may have a memory leak... How're hte G5's behaving in general? are they (dare i say it..) snappy?

11-10-2003, 02:30 PM	#18 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	still running jag, but thinking about panther. probably for x-mas or shortly afterwards when i have cash-money, baby... i just like to give them some time to work out bugs before i leap in. Anyone run it on a non-G5 system though? I've got a g4 quicksilver system, which is decently powered...but not G5 beefy.

11-11-2003, 06:51 AM	#20 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	Most of my system-7 stuff ran all the way up to 9.0 - then 9.1 changed something which munted most of it =) __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

11-11-2003, 03:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
bodypainter Psycho Location: Sarasota	I put Panther on my G4/400 the Monday after it was available in the stores and installed it on my wife's DP867 yesterday. VPC 5 works -- sort of. It's got redraw problems and is even slower than before but I did make it go. I don't give a damn, we hardly ever used it anyway. Everything else is great. Both machines seem faster than under 10.2, especially my G4/400.

11-12-2003, 09:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Nevermind... mod please delete this post. __________________ "It better be funny" Last edited by kel; 11-12-2003 at 10:02 AM..

11-12-2003, 11:05 AM	#23 (permalink)
quadro2000 All Possibility, Made Of Custard Location: New York, NY	I have it, but haven't installed it yet - for some reason I've been nervous about the install. For $5, I purchased the ebook Take Control Of Upgrading To Panther and now I feel a bit better about it. Once I archive all my, um, movies to DVD-R, I'll do the upgrade.