Wireless networking - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

LewisCouch · 10-12-2003, 08:45 AM

I recently set up a wireless router and a couple of laptops at my home. When viewing network connections (XP) I can see several other wireless networks listed. Some of these are not secure, and in fact, I can connect to a couple and actually use their connection. I would like to locate the person(s) who are foolishly operating an open connection because I like my neighbors. Any help would be appreciated as I am very new to wi-fi.

charliex · 10-12-2003, 03:55 PM

its difficult to track them down, you have to triangulate the signal which requires a directional antenna and some time.

easiest way is just to see if they have a printer or file share open and leave a message, saying hey your wireless network is insecure, and leave a link to a site describing how to secure it!

Mephisto2 · 10-12-2003, 09:53 PM

Or you can do a "walk about" with your laptop and WiFi card.

It won't give you all that accurate readings, but it should allow you to get a general idea of in what "direction" the offending WLAN lies.

Mr Mephisto

Moskie · 10-12-2003, 11:07 PM

Are you able to see people's user names anywhere? I think you can use the msg DOS app (built-in to Windows) to have a little pop-up window appear on a user's screen with a message of your choice.

LewisCouch · 10-13-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mephisto
Or you can do a "walk about" with your laptop and WiFi card.

It won't give you all that accurate readings, but it should allow you to get a general idea of in what "direction" the offending WLAN lies.

Mr Mephisto

I've attempted to do that, however, since I live on top of a hill, my findings were very general. I believe I did pinpoint the correct neighborhood, though.

LewisCouch · 10-13-2003, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
Are you able to see people's user names anywhere?

Haven't been able to see that, but then again, I really don't know how to go about this sort of thing. It seems to me that if access to their network is available, then it would be possible to view the individual workstations configured to work with that network. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Moskie · 10-13-2003, 09:34 AM

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...ts_cmd_msg.asp

That's a description of the MSG app for Windows XP. It says you can use an asterisk (*) instead of a user name, and it gets sent to all users. Hey, do me a favor: fuck with 'em a first, kay?

Seriously though, you should be able to use this app to send a message to people on the same network as you, telling them their wireless connection isn't secure, perhaps providing some info that would prove your benevolence.

charliex · 10-13-2003, 11:05 AM

A lot of people disable the messenger client coz of all the spam you get on it, but its worth a go.

Walkabouts are really hard to make it pinpoint since wireless boxes don't generate a uniform distibution and each one generates a different field, add to that any localized interference, plus wireless cards themselves aren't sensitive enough to make a really good signal field map.

we could give you a lot of information on how to enter their networks, but how do we know you'd use it for good

Moskie · 10-13-2003, 11:20 AM

Actually I just remembered that my roomate got himself a new laptop with a wireless card sometime back. He noticed that our neighbors' wireless router was accesible. But it doesn't stop there: they left their router password as 'admin'.

We blocked port 80 for a day, just for fun

p.s. I'm willing to bet that people who leave their wireless network open won't know how to disable the messenger service...

Mephisto2 · 10-13-2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by charliex
Walkabouts are really hard to make it pinpoint since wireless boxes don't generate a uniform distibution and each one generates a different field, add to that any localized interference, plus wireless cards themselves aren't sensitive enough to make a really good signal field map.

This is absolutely correct. But sometimes they are the best you can try, without true LBS (Location Based Services) or directional antennas.

Wireless security standards, hardening WLANs, developing strategies and policies, communicating to end users, developing new solutions with wireless Business Units... This takes up about 50% of my time.

Some people are just silly when it comes to WLAN security.

Mr Mephisto

digby · 10-24-2003, 10:38 AM

Please educate the unenlightened (me). My roomate just got a D-Link wireless router. I'm sure that he has no idea how to secure it. What do I need to do to fix this? Can I just http/telnet into the router and find settings there?

PS I do know how to stop the message Service...

Moskie · 10-24-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by digby
What do I need to do to fix this? Can I just http/telnet into the router and find settings there?

As far as I know, that's all there is to it. There should be settings for access restrictions (per MAC address), passwords for access, those sorts of things.

Nhanced1 · 10-24-2003, 01:15 PM

If you want to pinpoint those networks, build yourself a pringles can yagi, buy the pigtail and connectors for it, and start pointing it at things. You'd be amazed.

I am a student at the University of Arizona, we have a building here thats got a nice 10 story view in all directions. I went up there with my laptop and my pringles can, and I found networks simply by pointing at different buildings, and I could maintain connection with them as long as the can was pointed in that certian direction. It was very cool.

digby · 10-25-2003, 09:40 AM

I think that the pringles can will soon join the upper echelons of the necessary tool list alongside of duct tape and coat hangers.

I was adjusting settings on the D-link, and I found two computers listed w/ MAC addresses. One was the roommates, the other, I have no idea where it came from. Is it possible to tell who else might be using the router?

LewisCouch · 10-26-2003, 09:22 AM

Thanks for the tip on the Yagi antenna, it's cheap enough to build and if it works well, great!

visious · 10-26-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie

Hey, do me a favor: fuck with 'em a first, kay?

dont do that, ya might be breakin the law by doing that, NOT COOL, just try to let the ppl know if you can but dont fuck with the system, you might if you can put their routers ip into your internet browser bar and if they dont put a new password on that just try to do a bit of secureing that way, dont fuck wit it tho

10-12-2003, 08:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
LewisCouch Insane Location: Pacific NW	Wireless networking I recently set up a wireless router and a couple of laptops at my home. When viewing network connections (XP) I can see several other wireless networks listed. Some of these are not secure, and in fact, I can connect to a couple and actually use their connection. I would like to locate the person(s) who are foolishly operating an open connection because I like my neighbors. Any help would be appreciated as I am very new to wi-fi. __________________ "The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio

10-12-2003, 11:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	Are you able to see people's user names anywhere? I think you can use the msg DOS app (built-in to Windows) to have a little pop-up window appear on a user's screen with a message of your choice. __________________ Greetings and salutations.

10-13-2003, 11:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	Actually I just remembered that my roomate got himself a new laptop with a wireless card sometime back. He noticed that our neighbors' wireless router was accesible. But it doesn't stop there: they left their router password as 'admin'. We blocked port 80 for a day, just for fun p.s. I'm willing to bet that people who leave their wireless network open won't know how to disable the messenger service... __________________ Greetings and salutations.

10-24-2003, 10:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
digby Crazy Location: Ahh, the lovely South	Please educate the unenlightened (me). My roomate just got a D-Link wireless router. I'm sure that he has no idea how to secure it. What do I need to do to fix this? Can I just http/telnet into the router and find settings there? PS I do know how to stop the message Service... __________________ mmmm.... pudding

10-24-2003, 01:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nhanced1 Insane Location: Tucson, AZ	If you want to pinpoint those networks, build yourself a pringles can yagi, buy the pigtail and connectors for it, and start pointing it at things. You'd be amazed. I am a student at the University of Arizona, we have a building here thats got a nice 10 story view in all directions. I went up there with my laptop and my pringles can, and I found networks simply by pointing at different buildings, and I could maintain connection with them as long as the can was pointed in that certian direction. It was very cool. __________________ "Sell Crazy Somewhere Else, We're All Stocked Up Here," Jack Nicholson - As Good As It Gets

10-12-2003, 03:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	its difficult to track them down, you have to triangulate the signal which requires a directional antenna and some time. easiest way is just to see if they have a printer or file share open and leave a message, saying hey your wireless network is insecure, and leave a link to a site describing how to secure it!

10-12-2003, 09:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Or you can do a "walk about" with your laptop and WiFi card. It won't give you all that accurate readings, but it should allow you to get a general idea of in what "direction" the offending WLAN lies. Mr Mephisto

10-13-2003, 09:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...ts_cmd_msg.asp That's a description of the MSG app for Windows XP. It says you can use an asterisk (*) instead of a user name, and it gets sent to all users. Hey, do me a favor: fuck with 'em a first, kay? Seriously though, you should be able to use this app to send a message to people on the same network as you, telling them their wireless connection isn't secure, perhaps providing some info that would prove your benevolence.

10-13-2003, 11:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	A lot of people disable the messenger client coz of all the spam you get on it, but its worth a go. Walkabouts are really hard to make it pinpoint since wireless boxes don't generate a uniform distibution and each one generates a different field, add to that any localized interference, plus wireless cards themselves aren't sensitive enough to make a really good signal field map. we could give you a lot of information on how to enter their networks, but how do we know you'd use it for good

10-25-2003, 09:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
digby Crazy Location: Ahh, the lovely South	I think that the pringles can will soon join the upper echelons of the necessary tool list alongside of duct tape and coat hangers. I was adjusting settings on the D-link, and I found two computers listed w/ MAC addresses. One was the roommates, the other, I have no idea where it came from. Is it possible to tell who else might be using the router? __________________ mmmm.... pudding

10-26-2003, 09:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
LewisCouch Insane Location: Pacific NW	Thanks for the tip on the Yagi antenna, it's cheap enough to build and if it works well, great! __________________ "The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio