Comp. help needed badly. random computer freezes - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TwistedFate · 08-08-2003, 01:03 AM

Okay, I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a computer novice, but I'm at the end of my rope. I'm hoping somebody here can give me some ideas I haven't thought of.

Stats:
Acer MX36LE-UN MoBo (onboard sound and video, video disabled)
PIII 1.1 GHz
384 Mb SDRAM (128Mb, 256Mb)
80Gb HDD, partitioned into two 40Gb
NVidia GEForce II w/32Mb
Linksys Etherfast 10/100 NIC
Westell DSL Modem
Samsung 40/12/40 CDRW
Windows 98
Everything is app. 1 year old or younger (except Win98, duh). Everything was bought new by me.

Here is the problem. The computer periodically freezes up on me at random times. I've kept a log and can't see very much of a rhyme or reason to it, except for a mild graphic connection to the timing. It is more likely to freeze while a game is running. It freezes while surfing this board, although this may be coincidence as this is the last board I surf in my routine and I stay here longer than anywhere else. It freezes when doing big graphic manipulations in both Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro. The only concrete example I have is during the game Industry Giant II the more transportation vehicles I have, the more likely it is to freeze. It will occasionaly freeze during standard windows operations with multiple windows open. I have run it with the GEForce installed and the onboard disabled and with the GEForce removed and the onboard in operation. No difference. I have had so many different occasions on which it freezes that I really have no idea what to try anymore.

The only solution once it freezes is to cold boot the system and recently the system has starting hanging on reboot. When this hang occurs a warm boot with the 3 finger salute will reboot it, but it may not completely reboot again.

One final thing, as a drastic attempt to fix it, thinking a file may be corrupt I formatted the Primary partition and reinstalled Windows. Three days later the computer wouldn't boot at all, so I reformatted and started over again. This was about 2 weeks ago.

My friend is dying for me to get rid of Win98 and install ME. I won't do it until I have some idea of what is going on as WinME isn't different enough from Win98 for me to believe that it will fix it. An XP install may be in the future, but again I don't want to do that until I have an idea what the problem is since it may make things worse.

I am out of ideas. I am looking for any and all ideas of what may be the problem no matter how simplistic. Chances are I've tried it, but I want to hear everything anyway.

Okay, I have one idea that just came to me that I haven't tried yet. 128Mb of the RAM is from my old computer. I'm going to remove that now and see if that helps. Then I'll swap chips and try that in case the two chips just don't like each other. The mobo is supposed to take mixed mem sizes, but there may be a problem with one chip.

Thanks in advance.

charliex · 08-08-2003, 01:30 AM

if the ram swap doesnt work, suspect the PSU, since it affects boot up thats probably bad power

TwistedFate · 08-08-2003, 01:45 AM

hmmm, PSU. Hadn't thought of that. Something to look into, thanks. Well it's running on 256Mb now and actually seems to be running a little faster so the 128Mb chip may be bad. I'm off to try and crash it now.

Mephisto2 · 08-08-2003, 01:47 AM

Try running with a single memory SIMM, and see if your problems go away. If not, swap to the other SIMM.

It sounds like dodgy memory to me.

Mr Mephisto

mtsgsd · 08-08-2003, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mephisto
Try running with a single memory SIMM

Simm? I remember those!
Someone else from the dinosaur age...

Silvy · 08-08-2003, 05:15 AM

Hi,

Could temperature be your problem? I've had similar problems where the machine would lock-up at seemingly random times...

After setting a big (30 cm) fan next to my open case, it ran fine.... Turned out my cpu temperature dropped by more than 15 degrees with that setup...

just my $0.02

TeabagJoe · 08-08-2003, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silvy
Hi,

Could temperature be your problem? I've had similar problems where the machine would lock-up at seemingly random times...

After setting a big (30 cm) fan next to my open case, it ran fine.... Turned out my cpu temperature dropped by more than 15 degrees with that setup...

just my $0.02

Definately sounds like a temperature problem. May not be fixable if there is damage to the proc but try opening the case and aiming a fan directly at it see if its stable then, before you go replacing it.

MPower · 08-08-2003, 07:32 AM

Ive had the problem like that twice. Once was a heat problem, the cpu fan had quit. And the other was from bad memory modules. If you are getting blue screens it is prob heat related. Random crashes and freezes are most likely memory.

Silvy · 08-08-2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MPower
Ive had the problem like that twice. Once was a heat problem, the cpu fan had quit. And the other was from bad memory modules. If you are getting blue screens it is prob heat related. Random crashes and freezes are most likely memory.

The problems I had (see post above) were definately heat related (also they started in the summer time

) replacing the AGP card solved my problem (its fan was bad)...
But I never had any blue screens so don't go blind on the sypmptoms.

Best advice I can give you: make a list of possible causes and start with the ones that you can easily cancel out.
(and don't forget that defective add-on cards /agp cards etc can also cause freezes)

Good luck!

shalafi · 08-08-2003, 07:47 AM

whenever i get freezes i start looking at memory first. unfortunately you have memory in in the video (which it looks like you already eliminated) the ram, the HD, the CPU, the on board cache....etc

sipsake · 08-08-2003, 08:24 AM

If your memory checks out, I'd look at it being a heat problem or a problem with your vid card.

If you remove the vid card and go back to the onboard video, do you still freeze?

Whatever you do...DO NOT install WinME!!!

Silvy · 08-08-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sipsake
Whatever you do...DO NOT install WinME!!! [/B]

Oh yeah, I missed that part

He's completely right... WinME is absolutely disastrous for your computing experience...

If your 'friend' is trying to set you up with WinME he's probably just looking to pull a big prank on you...
It usually works fine at first but after a while it gets pretty irritating!

TwistedFate · 08-08-2003, 10:35 AM

Too many to quote and reply too, so just one big reply here.

Heat: could be but the case is open, fan is spinning and near an AC vent. But I'll take a good look at the fan maybe air isn't actually getting to the chip like it should, that would explain freezes when it has to do the extra work when most of the freezes occured.

Bad Memory: This is where I am concentrating my efforts today. I have one chip in now and was able to reproduce the problem before I went to bed. I'm going to keep at it to make sure it wasn't a fluke, and then swap them.

Video: It freezes when I use the onboard with the other removed or use the GEForce with the onboard disabled.

Blue Screens: I've gotten them a couple of times but no more than your normal Windows user. Nothing to cause me any alarm I wrote them down in the error log though, just in case.

Win ME LOL, yeah I know not to install ME at all. I should have been clearer earlier. My friend is actually getting upset that I won't listen to him and install it. I know he's not trying to prank me. It works fine for him. He thinks he knows everything about computers, but he forgets I am the one who taught him most of what he knows.

Thanks guys. I'll go check some things and see what I turn up.

Thanks to whoever edited the post title. At 5AM I wasn't thinking straight. That's what I get for staying up all night and sleeping all day.

Mephisto2 · 08-08-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtsgsd
Simm? I remember those!
Someone else from the dinosaur age...

Hah...

Old habits (and phrases) die slow...

Mr Mephisto

TwistedFate · 08-10-2003, 01:01 AM

Okay, let's revisit this quickly.

Memory seems to be fine. Ran a program to test it and it come back fine. Ran the computer with just one chip and then the other, no difference. It still had random freezes.

I'm starting to seriously think it is heat related. How hot should my heat sink be on the CPU? I ask because it is my understanding that the chips run pretty hot and the heatsink should have a significant amount of heat to it as well. The heatsink on my vid card is hot, almost to the point of being uncomfortable to touch. The heatsink on my CPU however is barely above room temp. I can reach in right now and touch it without worrying. I just don't see how that little fan can cool it that much. My thoughts are that it is not touching the CPU for some reason so it is not bleeding off the heat like it should. Does this sound right?

If I can get this fixed I won't have to replace it (which I don't really have the money to do right now) Other wise it has to go. I can't have it freezing on me every hour or so and then taking 4 or 5 tries to restart it. And God help me when I'm coding and don't get to save my code before it freezes. I know my neighbors are tired of hearing my screams.

08-08-2003, 01:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
TwistedFate Crazy	Comp. help needed badly. Okay, I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a computer novice, but I'm at the end of my rope. I'm hoping somebody here can give me some ideas I haven't thought of. Stats: Acer MX36LE-UN MoBo (onboard sound and video, video disabled) PIII 1.1 GHz 384 Mb SDRAM (128Mb, 256Mb) 80Gb HDD, partitioned into two 40Gb NVidia GEForce II w/32Mb Linksys Etherfast 10/100 NIC Westell DSL Modem Samsung 40/12/40 CDRW Windows 98 Everything is app. 1 year old or younger (except Win98, duh). Everything was bought new by me. Here is the problem. The computer periodically freezes up on me at random times. I've kept a log and can't see very much of a rhyme or reason to it, except for a mild graphic connection to the timing. It is more likely to freeze while a game is running. It freezes while surfing this board, although this may be coincidence as this is the last board I surf in my routine and I stay here longer than anywhere else. It freezes when doing big graphic manipulations in both Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro. The only concrete example I have is during the game Industry Giant II the more transportation vehicles I have, the more likely it is to freeze. It will occasionaly freeze during standard windows operations with multiple windows open. I have run it with the GEForce installed and the onboard disabled and with the GEForce removed and the onboard in operation. No difference. I have had so many different occasions on which it freezes that I really have no idea what to try anymore. The only solution once it freezes is to cold boot the system and recently the system has starting hanging on reboot. When this hang occurs a warm boot with the 3 finger salute will reboot it, but it may not completely reboot again. One final thing, as a drastic attempt to fix it, thinking a file may be corrupt I formatted the Primary partition and reinstalled Windows. Three days later the computer wouldn't boot at all, so I reformatted and started over again. This was about 2 weeks ago. My friend is dying for me to get rid of Win98 and install ME. I won't do it until I have some idea of what is going on as WinME isn't different enough from Win98 for me to believe that it will fix it. An XP install may be in the future, but again I don't want to do that until I have an idea what the problem is since it may make things worse. I am out of ideas. I am looking for any and all ideas of what may be the problem no matter how simplistic. Chances are I've tried it, but I want to hear everything anyway. Okay, I have one idea that just came to me that I haven't tried yet. 128Mb of the RAM is from my old computer. I'm going to remove that now and see if that helps. Then I'll swap chips and try that in case the two chips just don't like each other. The mobo is supposed to take mixed mem sizes, but there may be a problem with one chip. Thanks in advance. __________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Last edited by TwistedFate; 08-08-2003 at 01:43 AM..

08-08-2003, 01:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
TwistedFate Crazy	hmmm, PSU. Hadn't thought of that. Something to look into, thanks. Well it's running on 256Mb now and actually seems to be running a little faster so the 128Mb chip may be bad. I'm off to try and crash it now. __________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

08-08-2003, 05:15 AM	#6 (permalink)
Silvy paranoid Location: The Netherlands	temperature? Hi, Could temperature be your problem? I've had similar problems where the machine would lock-up at seemingly random times... After setting a big (30 cm) fan next to my open case, it ran fine.... Turned out my cpu temperature dropped by more than 15 degrees with that setup... just my $0.02 __________________ "Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. " - Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

08-08-2003, 08:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
sipsake Psycho Location: Memphis	If your memory checks out, I'd look at it being a heat problem or a problem with your vid card. If you remove the vid card and go back to the onboard video, do you still freeze? Whatever you do...DO NOT install WinME!!! __________________ When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?" Henry Rollins

08-08-2003, 10:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
TwistedFate Crazy	Too many to quote and reply too, so just one big reply here. Heat: could be but the case is open, fan is spinning and near an AC vent. But I'll take a good look at the fan maybe air isn't actually getting to the chip like it should, that would explain freezes when it has to do the extra work when most of the freezes occured. Bad Memory: This is where I am concentrating my efforts today. I have one chip in now and was able to reproduce the problem before I went to bed. I'm going to keep at it to make sure it wasn't a fluke, and then swap them. Video: It freezes when I use the onboard with the other removed or use the GEForce with the onboard disabled. Blue Screens: I've gotten them a couple of times but no more than your normal Windows user. Nothing to cause me any alarm I wrote them down in the error log though, just in case. Win ME LOL, yeah I know not to install ME at all. I should have been clearer earlier. My friend is actually getting upset that I won't listen to him and install it. I know he's not trying to prank me. It works fine for him. He thinks he knows everything about computers, but he forgets I am the one who taught him most of what he knows. Thanks guys. I'll go check some things and see what I turn up. Thanks to whoever edited the post title. At 5AM I wasn't thinking straight. That's what I get for staying up all night and sleeping all day. __________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

08-08-2003, 01:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	if the ram swap doesnt work, suspect the PSU, since it affects boot up thats probably bad power

08-08-2003, 01:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Try running with a single memory SIMM, and see if your problems go away. If not, swap to the other SIMM. It sounds like dodgy memory to me. Mr Mephisto

08-08-2003, 07:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
MPower Psycho	Ive had the problem like that twice. Once was a heat problem, the cpu fan had quit. And the other was from bad memory modules. If you are getting blue screens it is prob heat related. Random crashes and freezes are most likely memory.

08-08-2003, 07:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
shalafi ARRRRRRRRRR Location: Stuart, Florida	whenever i get freezes i start looking at memory first. unfortunately you have memory in in the video (which it looks like you already eliminated) the ram, the HD, the CPU, the on board cache....etc

08-10-2003, 01:01 AM	#15 (permalink)
TwistedFate Crazy	Okay, let's revisit this quickly. Memory seems to be fine. Ran a program to test it and it come back fine. Ran the computer with just one chip and then the other, no difference. It still had random freezes. I'm starting to seriously think it is heat related. How hot should my heat sink be on the CPU? I ask because it is my understanding that the chips run pretty hot and the heatsink should have a significant amount of heat to it as well. The heatsink on my vid card is hot, almost to the point of being uncomfortable to touch. The heatsink on my CPU however is barely above room temp. I can reach in right now and touch it without worrying. I just don't see how that little fan can cool it that much. My thoughts are that it is not touching the CPU for some reason so it is not bleeding off the heat like it should. Does this sound right? If I can get this fixed I won't have to replace it (which I don't really have the money to do right now) Other wise it has to go. I can't have it freezing on me every hour or so and then taking 4 or 5 tries to restart it. And God help me when I'm coding and don't get to save my code before it freezes. I know my neighbors are tired of hearing my screams. __________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.