Looking to build/buy a new comp - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

bakerocks · 07-31-2003, 10:52 AM

This is my first post here, though I've been around for a good while. I'm headin' out to school in about a month and a half, and I've been looking all summer for the computer that's just perfect. I looked at laptops for a long time for their portability, but realized I wasn't going to be able to play the games I wanted as well as I wanted for a price within my range. I was crusing these forums looking for some help...and I came across numerous resources...but I admit to being not quite as knowledgeable on computer parts as some of the gurus around here, so I decided to ask for help personally. I'm basically looking for a computer anywhere in the $800-$1200 range. I was thinking about building it from parts, since that seems to end up being a better deal at that price range. My friend has more money than me, but I'm hoping with you guys' help, I'll be able to show him up

. I don't need an overly huge hard drive, (60 gb would do nicely). Again, performance for gaming is mostly what I'm looking for...the best that I can get within that price range. Thanks a ton in advance for anyone willing to help...I just can't bear to look through any more websites looking for the "best" deals on stuff I'm not qualified to be looking at really.

-Baker

sixate · 07-31-2003, 01:27 PM

First I think the best place to get hardware are:
GoogleGear
Newegg
Pricewatch

Now here's a list of stuff that I'd buy in your price range.

Antec case with 400 watt power supply $90.00
AMD XP2500 Barton Processor $93.00
Wester Digital SE 60 gig w/8MB buffer $83.50
MSI K7N2-L motherboard $96.50
PC2700 512 memory $61.00
Lite on DVD drive $34.99
Lite On 52x32x52 CDRW Drive $44.99
MITSUMI floppy drive $8.00
Vid card ATI 9500 PRO $205.00
Logitech cordless MX duo (keyboard&mouce) $83.00
NEC 17" CRT monitor $150.00
Logitech Z640's speakers $65.00

All that for a grand total of $1014.98. I think the only thing that wasn't free shipping was the monitor so add a little more cash for that. You may not need a new monitor and keyboard, you didn't really say, so you might save money on that stuff.

I would suggest getting Logitech Z560's instead of the other ones I posted above. I have them and they're loud as fuck and sound great. They cost $139.00, and they're worth it for the power they have (400 watts).

Hope I didn't miss anything. I threw this together in a few minutes.

drawerfixer · 07-31-2003, 02:31 PM

Are most motherboards good enough that you don't need a sound card anymore?

sixate · 07-31-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drawerfixer
Are most motherboards good enough that you don't need a sound card anymore?

Doh! I don't know how I forgot that.

VOYETRA TURTLE BEACH SANTA CRUZ - OEM $40.00

The OEM version is cheap. The retail version of that card is $75.00. Save some bucks and get the OEM.

CaptainFluffer · 07-31-2003, 04:35 PM

Cheaper and econimcal and awesome too:

Buy from http://www.newegg.com and you'll save...

Raidmax Case w/350watt Power Supply: $35
AMD Athlon XP Barton 2500: $93
Soltek SL-75MRN-L w/onboard VGA nForce2: $99
Crucial PC2700 DDR Ram 512MB: $65
Sony Floppy Drive: $8
Lite ON DVD/CD-RW Combo: $65
KDS Flat CRT "19 Monitor: $188
Logitech 5.1 Spekers: $55
Western Digital HD Special ed. 120gb 8mb cache: $106 (You're almost stupid if you buy the 80gb for $85)

All for the low low price of $799. You dont even need the speakers or a second burner or a video card with this board.

bakerocks · 07-31-2003, 05:41 PM

Thanks all for gettin' all that stuff lined up for me. Especially sixate for responding so promptly and with the really handy links. I have a question though. I would prefer a pentium 4 processor...preferably 2.4 or so, with the 800 mhz fsb, and Hyper threading. What would I have to change off the lists to do this? I know that I'd need a different motherboard, but which one? And I'd probably have to take lesser in some other area...I guess the speakers aren't the most important thing in the world to me, since I'll be living in a dorm and if I blast 'em I'll just get bitched at anyhow.

Thanks again in advance.

Pragma · 07-31-2003, 05:43 PM

A lot of PC-building enthusiasts, from my experience, prefer AMD hardware over Intel - AMD tends to be cheaper and it's also "fighting against the man", as Intel is a much larger and better established corporation.

Personally, I use AMD hardware because it's cheaper, about the same performance, and I know it better. It comes down to personal preference, though.

sixate · 07-31-2003, 06:00 PM

I also prefer AMD over Intel. I just don't think that their shit should be that expensive. Intel is almost twice the price of AMD and it barely out performs AMD, and if you match them up Hz for Hz AMD comes out on top. So I don't see the point in wasting the cash.

Anyway, here you go.

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor 2.4GHz, 800MHz FSB $171

Too much $$ IMO.
Asus P4P8X i865P P4 (800FSB) Skt478 $104.99

Go with AMD!!

bakerocks · 07-31-2003, 06:05 PM

Maybe it's not that I want an Intel chip, just that I see the actual speed of the 2500+ at 1.83, and that just seems a bit low to me. I fully trust you guys, and I've read things that say that just the outright speed of the thing isn't the only factor. I just don't know what it is about the AMD chips that puts them on par with the pentiums. I'm all for saving money.

Will the chip you originally proposed put me on par with an intel 2.4? and if not, what would be the AMD equivalent (I assume it's cheaper from what you guys are telling me...so that sounds good :P)! :P

sixate · 07-31-2003, 06:22 PM

The AMD chip I gave you a link for would be pretty close to that P4. It won't outperform it, but the P4 isn't so much faster that it's worth an extra $80. Honestly, I doubt that you'd notice a difference. I have an AMD XP 2100 (1.73GHz), which only costs $65, and I know that my PC is faster than a friend who has a 2.2GHz P4 ($165).

Lasereth · 07-31-2003, 07:38 PM

In case no one is aware of this, the official CPU results for AMD and Intel processors is about a 600 MHz difference. Using SiSoft Sandra, an Athlon XP 1900+ running at 1.6 GHz gets the exact same score as a Pentium 4 running at 2.2 GHz. People underestimate how powerful Athlon XP processors are. They're also incredibly cheap compared to the same Pentium processor, not counting the fact that an Athlon XP compared to the same speed Pentium 4 is ridiculous.

I checked around, mainly on NewEgg, and I found it very easy to get an extremely good PC for under $1,000. In the end, I came up with these approximate results (you can find all of these parts on NewEgg, I don't feel like pasting them in):

Gigabyte VIA KT600 8x AGP, Onboard Sound and Network Card
Athlon XP 2400+ at 2.0 GHz
Global WIN Super Silent CPU Fan
8x GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256 MB
40 GB Maxtor 7200 Hard Drive
52x24x52 Burner
Floppy
Mouse
Keyboard
RaidMax Case with 350w PSU
Crucial PC2700 DDR Ram 512MB

All of that is easily under $1,000. If you use your money wisely and don't waste it on an expensive mouse and keyboard or other crap, then your PC can be a powerhouse. That videocard is simply amazing, and the price is still under $1,000.

Whatever you do, go AMD. DO NOT buy an Intel processor if you value your money.

-Lasereth

egorey · 07-31-2003, 09:06 PM

One concern here... will you have an airconditioned room? Heat is the number one issue with microprocessors and AMD chips will require extra cooling... I have worked on a few that could basically be space heaters. I know my dorm killed several 486s a few years back because of the heat.

bakerocks · 07-31-2003, 09:55 PM

Hmm, thanks for the tip ego. It isn't air conditioned, and in the summer it gets hot as heck there (cold as heck in the summer as well tho). How many fans should I need? The case I'm looking at right now ANTEC SOLUTION SERIES MODEL SLK3700AMB w/ANTEC SMART POWER 350W P4/AMD POWER SUPPLY ATX12V says that it comes with a pretty good fan, and has space for another I think...in addition to the fan that's going to be with the processor. Is just the one that comes with, and the one that's attached to the processor going to be enough?

gamer715 · 07-31-2003, 10:11 PM

With the type of setup you're looking at you're should purchase another 120mm fan to mount in the front of the case. Also, I'm a bit worried about an admittedly tech-unsavvy person putting together their own computer. Now, granted, it's not hard, and I'm sure we can help you along the way (I will personally) but just something to think about.

tronims · 07-31-2003, 10:49 PM

Well I would say that in gaming AMD is ok but for many things that are more number crunching like zip compression, video compression, etc it goes amd MHZ = intel MHZ. If you look at it that way intel is actually cheaper. There was a site a little while back that did a complete comparison MHZ to MHZ and AMD did win but their chip was MUCH more.

Personally I use XP 2500+ and overclock it to 3000 speeds and I am more that happy. Although to do so you need to have plenty of airflow, my 8 fans tend to help that.

CaptainFluffer · 07-31-2003, 11:57 PM

My friend just bought the new p4 with 800mhz fsb

It's pretty sick how fast it load photoshop >_<

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 12:28 AM

Alright guys thanks for all the advice today...anyone else who wants to chime in as well would be appreciated. I've been at newegg all night looking for the deals that'll suit me best based on you guys' insight, it's looking good so far, I'll post up the whole thing in the morning so that hopefully someone will be able to critique it and we'll make it as good as it can get for the buck.

Thanks also gamer for your support, I've taken apart a computer or two, but never put them back together

I'm sure I'll need a bit of guidance.

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 09:38 AM

Alright, I know I want another decently powerful fan in there, but I'm having a tough time finding one that's quiet, but powerful enough to allow me to overclock my machine. Any suggestions

tronims · 08-01-2003, 09:52 AM

I would suggest that the most important aspect is the heatsink, look at the slk-900a with a decent fan attached.

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 10:11 AM

Heh, I'm pretty-much at a loss when it comes to what I'm going to need to overclock this puppy. For the most part, the system I'm looking at is just like sixate's up top. The case however is this: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...on=11-129-122. And I'm using dual channel Corsair XMS memory: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...on=20-145-403. Do I need another 120mm fan, _and_ a heatsink? Any help would be appreciated.

sixate · 08-01-2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bakerocks
Heh, I'm pretty-much at a loss when it comes to what I'm going to need to overclock this puppy. For the most part, the system I'm looking at is just like sixate's up top. The case however is this: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...on=11-129-122. And I'm using dual channel Corsair XMS memory: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...on=20-145-403. Do I need another 120mm fan, _and_ a heatsink? Any help would be appreciated.

You're gonna need another fan for the front of that case. It looks like it has an exhaust fan, but you will need and intake fan on the front. You have to make sure the case has good airflow. What processor did you decide to get? It would be best to get an OEM (no heatsink & fan) processor and just buy a really good heatsink and another 80mm fan. That will help to keep the temps lower. If you're gonna be gaming I would suggest at least 512 megs of RAM. That's a good price on the memory so if you can afford it just get 2 sticks.

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 11:54 AM

Thought so. Reviews say that it's got good airflow, and a filter to keep dust out and everything. I decided to go with the 2500+ Barton that you originally suggested. I am getting 2 sticks of the 256 memory to get that 512. It's really just the fan/heatsink thing I'm stuck on. If anyone could direct me to an awesome heatsink and fan that'll do the job I need I'd be very grateful. I'm gonna need it to stay plenty cool, cuz I'd like to overclock it as much as I can, but I also can't spend a _ton_ of money on a cooling system. Definitely no more than 50 bucks for the two. Also, I'd prefer it to be relatively quiet. Thanks again.

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 12:04 PM

Another thing about the fan: apparently the front spot for the fan in the case can fit only a 25mm wide 120mm fan or smaller.

sixate · 08-01-2003, 12:33 PM

I'm gonna direct you to a different place.

CoolerGuys seem to have better prices for fans and crap like that. This is where I bought all my fans and heatsink. Also bought my fan controller and cathodes here too. They have great service.

Heatsink, this is the one I have and I think it works great:
Thermalright SLK 800 $37.99
120mm fan (25mm thickness) $9.95
80mm fan (heatsink) $5.95
I have this fan on my processor and everything is very cool. It blows plenty of air and isn't too loud. It doesn't have a 3 pin connector to plug into the motherboard so if you go with that fan you'll probably have to turn off the ability for your motherboard to detect the fan speed of fan on the processor or every time you reboot there will be an alarm that goes off saying that the processor fan isn't working even though it is.

You may want to check newegg and see if they have cheaper prices on these products because I'm sure they have them, but I bet they're more expensive. Their hardware is really cheap, but cooling products seem to be a little high to me.

One last thing. Good choice on the processor. You won't be disappointed.

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 01:15 PM

Those all look great...How does the 80mm one work though? It looks like it pushes a TON of air, but is noisy as heck. I may be wrong, but that's just what the numbers are telling me. Other than that, it looks like just the right solution for me. Also, what's the deal with this arctic silver III stuff? It looks like it does a pretty dang good job at giving the system some additional cooling.

sixate · 08-01-2003, 01:21 PM

I have that same 80mm fan and the noise isn't bad, but if you're looking for a quieter fan check this one out. It's the same brand as the other, but it's a medium speed fan, not a high speed fan as the other one I posted.

80mm, 32 dBA, 39.0 CFM $4.95

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 02:11 PM

Alright, Here it goes - As of right now, this is my entire system, totalling approximately $1120...It's about 855 before the monitor, and I think I'll go out looking elsewhere for a better deal on a monitor this afternoon. The thirty dollars shipping and handling hurts me

sixate · 08-01-2003, 02:28 PM

That'll be a nice system after you get it together. I think a sound card is necessary, and there will be a huge difference between that card and the onboard audio. Do you already have speakers or are you gonna use some old ones for a while?

bakerocks · 08-01-2003, 02:32 PM

I'm probably gonna steal a decent set of speakers from a friend who doesn't use 'em anymore. They should be sufficient. How about the memory? The 2 sticks of 256 corsair XMS dual channel sounds pretty impressive, but is it worth the price? Will it really run much better than a single 512 stick?

sixate · 08-01-2003, 02:39 PM

It won't be better than a stick of 512 if it's also XMS dual channel, but it will be better and worth the extra money if it's compared to the stick of 512 that I suggested at the top.

gamer715 · 08-01-2003, 03:02 PM

Actually with the nForce2 motherboard chipset, the two sticks will make you go faster than one single 512 stick. Also, I've got the MSI K7N2G-L motherboard (integrated graphics -- I'm cheap), and in my opinion its onboard sound is sufficient for gaming and audio, unless you're an audiophile who's gonna get high-end speakers (I use high-end headphones, and I can't notice a difference between my onboard sound and that from an Audigy). Also, on the hard drive, that's a good drive for a good price, but check your local weekly circulars for Best Buy and CompUSA and especially OfficeMax, they run some pretty sick hard drive deals (if you're willing to wait for a mail-in rebate). Other than that, all great choices, especially on the processor. I love my XP2500, and I overclocked it to 2040mhz with the stock heatsink and stock voltage, and my temperatures at load are still sub-50C. (Again--I'm cheap)

poof · 08-02-2003, 08:27 AM

Thanks Sixate for the sound input, no pun intended. I am tired of trying to get driver support from Creative. They are like Symantec, Microsoft in the way they want to take over your 'puter. I bought a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz last night and haven't installed it yet. Did a TFP search on it, and it has been recommended more than once.

Anybody want to buy an Audigy 2 Platinum with black and beige face plates?

bakerocks · 08-06-2003, 11:38 PM

Alright, so I've ordered everything above, and I have all of it sitting in my livingroom with the exception of the hard drive which should be here tomorrow morning. I decided I'd start to put the thing together. I almost immediately came up with a question for ya sixate (since I'm using pretty-much an identical cooling system as you), how do you place the 80mm fan on top of the heatsink and keep it there? And you only need the thermal grease stuff on the underside of the heatsink where it directly touches the processor yes? Can't remember if I had anymore questions...I'll report back if I run into anything else. =)

bakerocks · 08-07-2003, 04:45 PM

Any help would be appreciated. =) I just need to know how or where to attach the fan on/around the heatsink. I'd obviously need some sort of glue to put it on the top :P Thanks.

h2g2Fan · 08-07-2003, 04:53 PM

bake, pay an extra $100 for assembly and standardized warranty with a big company. Most of the people who are answering your questions are people who have built computers many times over. I'm on my third self-made computer, but it really doesn't seem like you're quite ready to do it on your own.

h2g2Fan · 08-07-2003, 05:08 PM

For starters, prices of two chips. A moderately ranged p4 and close to the highest model for AMD.
$170 Pentium 4 2.4GHz 800
$242 - Athlon XP 3000

Edge goes to P4.

OpenGL / Q3 benchmarks, 2.4 p4 barely wins in all settings over the xp 3000. Edge goes to P4.

DirectX 8 GameS: Varying winners depending on game, but very close results. Tie.

Synthetic Benchmarks: 3dmark. P4 wins in most settings by a significant amount, amd wins at one setting by a small margin. Edge to P4.

Raw data processing: mp3 maker platinum: very in favor of P4.
Archiving/WinRAR/SETI: All in favor of P4. Strong edge to P4.

Well I could go on for awhile but basically all of the edges go to the cheaper P4. The same priced 2.8 ghz P4 simply blows away the AMD.

I get my benchmarks from http://www.tomshardware.com, and prices from http://www.pricewatch.com

bakerocks · 08-07-2003, 06:05 PM

Well I do have a few friends who are helping me as we speak...but none have encountered the problem with the heatsink that I stated above. Other than that we'll be just fine.

wyld_bill2001 · 08-07-2003, 07:18 PM

i would go with the AMD. me and a friend decided to up grade at the same time, he had a little more mony and spent about $95 dollars more than me for a P4/MB combo, and the AMD/MB combo i bought for less seems to preform just as well all around..and sence we both had to upgrade to DDR memory, he had to settle for 256meg while i got 512meg.

sixate · 08-07-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bakerocks
Alright, so I've ordered everything above, and I have all of it sitting in my livingroom with the exception of the hard drive which should be here tomorrow morning. I decided I'd start to put the thing together. I almost immediately came up with a question for ya sixate (since I'm using pretty-much an identical cooling system as you), how do you place the 80mm fan on top of the heatsink and keep it there? And you only need the thermal grease stuff on the underside of the heatsink where it directly touches the processor yes? Can't remember if I had anymore questions...I'll report back if I run into anything else. =)

I should have warned you that the heatsink comes with no instructions at all. Anyway, there are two little metal bar lookin deals that slide into the holes on each side of the heatsink. Check out this link to see what I'm talking about. It shows all of the parts that come with the heatsink so you can get an idea of how to assemble it. It's very easy. Just slide the clips in the holes and the clips will fit nice and snug in the screw holes on the top of the fan. The clips will hold the fan on the heatsink no problem. If I remember correctly there are three sets of holes to put the clips in. That depends on the thickness of you fan. Since you have the same fan as myself they will go in the middle set of holes. Be sure to look at all of the pics on that link closely and read it too.

If you're using thermal paste and not the thermal tape, apply the paste to the CPU. Check out this link to see exactly how to apply it. If you have any questions feel free to send me a PM.

sixate · 08-07-2003, 07:52 PM

Another thing. Don't put the heatsink on unless you put the little white dots on the bottom of the heatsink. If you don't put those on and put the heatsink on you'll most likely fuck up your processor. There is also a pic on that link which shows you exactly where they need to be and explains why they need to be there. Be thorough and take you time. If you're not sure how to do something stop where you're at and be sure to find out exactly what to do before you do a thing. It's very easy to mess something up.

07-31-2003, 10:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Looking to build/buy a new comp This is my first post here, though I've been around for a good while. I'm headin' out to school in about a month and a half, and I've been looking all summer for the computer that's just perfect. I looked at laptops for a long time for their portability, but realized I wasn't going to be able to play the games I wanted as well as I wanted for a price within my range. I was crusing these forums looking for some help...and I came across numerous resources...but I admit to being not quite as knowledgeable on computer parts as some of the gurus around here, so I decided to ask for help personally. I'm basically looking for a computer anywhere in the $800-$1200 range. I was thinking about building it from parts, since that seems to end up being a better deal at that price range. My friend has more money than me, but I'm hoping with you guys' help, I'll be able to show him up . I don't need an overly huge hard drive, (60 gb would do nicely). Again, performance for gaming is mostly what I'm looking for...the best that I can get within that price range. Thanks a ton in advance for anyone willing to help...I just can't bear to look through any more websites looking for the "best" deals on stuff I'm not qualified to be looking at really. -Baker

07-31-2003, 02:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
drawerfixer Stonerific Location: Colorado	Are most motherboards good enough that you don't need a sound card anymore? __________________ They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

07-31-2003, 05:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	A lot of PC-building enthusiasts, from my experience, prefer AMD hardware over Intel - AMD tends to be cheaper and it's also "fighting against the man", as Intel is a much larger and better established corporation. Personally, I use AMD hardware because it's cheaper, about the same performance, and I know it better. It comes down to personal preference, though. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

07-31-2003, 07:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	In case no one is aware of this, the official CPU results for AMD and Intel processors is about a 600 MHz difference. Using SiSoft Sandra, an Athlon XP 1900+ running at 1.6 GHz gets the exact same score as a Pentium 4 running at 2.2 GHz. People underestimate how powerful Athlon XP processors are. They're also incredibly cheap compared to the same Pentium processor, not counting the fact that an Athlon XP compared to the same speed Pentium 4 is ridiculous. I checked around, mainly on NewEgg, and I found it very easy to get an extremely good PC for under $1,000. In the end, I came up with these approximate results (you can find all of these parts on NewEgg, I don't feel like pasting them in): Gigabyte VIA KT600 8x AGP, Onboard Sound and Network Card Athlon XP 2400+ at 2.0 GHz Global WIN Super Silent CPU Fan 8x GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256 MB 40 GB Maxtor 7200 Hard Drive 52x24x52 Burner Floppy Mouse Keyboard RaidMax Case with 350w PSU Crucial PC2700 DDR Ram 512MB All of that is easily under $1,000. If you use your money wisely and don't waste it on an expensive mouse and keyboard or other crap, then your PC can be a powerhouse. That videocard is simply amazing, and the price is still under $1,000. Whatever you do, go AMD. DO NOT buy an Intel processor if you value your money. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

07-31-2003, 10:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
gamer715 Insane Location: here	With the type of setup you're looking at you're should purchase another 120mm fan to mount in the front of the case. Also, I'm a bit worried about an admittedly tech-unsavvy person putting together their own computer. Now, granted, it's not hard, and I'm sure we can help you along the way (I will personally) but just something to think about. __________________ What 'chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

07-31-2003, 01:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	First I think the best place to get hardware are: GoogleGear Newegg Pricewatch Now here's a list of stuff that I'd buy in your price range. Antec case with 400 watt power supply $90.00 AMD XP2500 Barton Processor $93.00 Wester Digital SE 60 gig w/8MB buffer $83.50 MSI K7N2-L motherboard $96.50 PC2700 512 memory $61.00 Lite on DVD drive $34.99 Lite On 52x32x52 CDRW Drive $44.99 MITSUMI floppy drive $8.00 Vid card ATI 9500 PRO $205.00 Logitech cordless MX duo (keyboard&mouce) $83.00 NEC 17" CRT monitor $150.00 Logitech Z640's speakers $65.00 All that for a grand total of $1014.98. I think the only thing that wasn't free shipping was the monitor so add a little more cash for that. You may not need a new monitor and keyboard, you didn't really say, so you might save money on that stuff. I would suggest getting Logitech Z560's instead of the other ones I posted above. I have them and they're loud as fuck and sound great. They cost $139.00, and they're worth it for the power they have (400 watts). Hope I didn't miss anything. I threw this together in a few minutes.

07-31-2003, 04:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
CaptainFluffer Banned Location: Pussy awp camping	Cheaper and econimcal and awesome too: Buy from http://www.newegg.com and you'll save... Raidmax Case w/350watt Power Supply: $35 AMD Athlon XP Barton 2500: $93 Soltek SL-75MRN-L w/onboard VGA nForce2: $99 Crucial PC2700 DDR Ram 512MB: $65 Sony Floppy Drive: $8 Lite ON DVD/CD-RW Combo: $65 KDS Flat CRT "19 Monitor: $188 Logitech 5.1 Spekers: $55 Western Digital HD Special ed. 120gb 8mb cache: $106 (You're almost stupid if you buy the 80gb for $85) All for the low low price of $799. You dont even need the speakers or a second burner or a video card with this board.

07-31-2003, 05:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Thanks all for gettin' all that stuff lined up for me. Especially sixate for responding so promptly and with the really handy links. I have a question though. I would prefer a pentium 4 processor...preferably 2.4 or so, with the 800 mhz fsb, and Hyper threading. What would I have to change off the lists to do this? I know that I'd need a different motherboard, but which one? And I'd probably have to take lesser in some other area...I guess the speakers aren't the most important thing in the world to me, since I'll be living in a dorm and if I blast 'em I'll just get bitched at anyhow. Thanks again in advance.

07-31-2003, 06:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I also prefer AMD over Intel. I just don't think that their shit should be that expensive. Intel is almost twice the price of AMD and it barely out performs AMD, and if you match them up Hz for Hz AMD comes out on top. So I don't see the point in wasting the cash. Anyway, here you go. Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor 2.4GHz, 800MHz FSB $171 Too much $$ IMO. Asus P4P8X i865P P4 (800FSB) Skt478 $104.99 Go with AMD!!

07-31-2003, 06:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Maybe it's not that I want an Intel chip, just that I see the actual speed of the 2500+ at 1.83, and that just seems a bit low to me. I fully trust you guys, and I've read things that say that just the outright speed of the thing isn't the only factor. I just don't know what it is about the AMD chips that puts them on par with the pentiums. I'm all for saving money. Will the chip you originally proposed put me on par with an intel 2.4? and if not, what would be the AMD equivalent (I assume it's cheaper from what you guys are telling me...so that sounds good :P)! :P

07-31-2003, 06:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	The AMD chip I gave you a link for would be pretty close to that P4. It won't outperform it, but the P4 isn't so much faster that it's worth an extra $80. Honestly, I doubt that you'd notice a difference. I have an AMD XP 2100 (1.73GHz), which only costs $65, and I know that my PC is faster than a friend who has a 2.2GHz P4 ($165).

07-31-2003, 09:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
egorey Crazy	One concern here... will you have an airconditioned room? Heat is the number one issue with microprocessors and AMD chips will require extra cooling... I have worked on a few that could basically be space heaters. I know my dorm killed several 486s a few years back because of the heat.

07-31-2003, 09:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Hmm, thanks for the tip ego. It isn't air conditioned, and in the summer it gets hot as heck there (cold as heck in the summer as well tho). How many fans should I need? The case I'm looking at right now ANTEC SOLUTION SERIES MODEL SLK3700AMB w/ANTEC SMART POWER 350W P4/AMD POWER SUPPLY ATX12V says that it comes with a pretty good fan, and has space for another I think...in addition to the fan that's going to be with the processor. Is just the one that comes with, and the one that's attached to the processor going to be enough?

07-31-2003, 10:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
tronims Tilted	Well I would say that in gaming AMD is ok but for many things that are more number crunching like zip compression, video compression, etc it goes amd MHZ = intel MHZ. If you look at it that way intel is actually cheaper. There was a site a little while back that did a complete comparison MHZ to MHZ and AMD did win but their chip was MUCH more. Personally I use XP 2500+ and overclock it to 3000 speeds and I am more that happy. Although to do so you need to have plenty of airflow, my 8 fans tend to help that.

07-31-2003, 11:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
CaptainFluffer Banned Location: Pussy awp camping	My friend just bought the new p4 with 800mhz fsb It's pretty sick how fast it load photoshop >_<

08-01-2003, 12:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Alright guys thanks for all the advice today...anyone else who wants to chime in as well would be appreciated. I've been at newegg all night looking for the deals that'll suit me best based on you guys' insight, it's looking good so far, I'll post up the whole thing in the morning so that hopefully someone will be able to critique it and we'll make it as good as it can get for the buck. Thanks also gamer for your support, I've taken apart a computer or two, but never put them back together I'm sure I'll need a bit of guidance.

08-01-2003, 09:38 AM	#18 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Alright, I know I want another decently powerful fan in there, but I'm having a tough time finding one that's quiet, but powerful enough to allow me to overclock my machine. Any suggestions

08-01-2003, 09:52 AM	#19 (permalink)
tronims Tilted	I would suggest that the most important aspect is the heatsink, look at the slk-900a with a decent fan attached.

08-01-2003, 10:11 AM	#20 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Heh, I'm pretty-much at a loss when it comes to what I'm going to need to overclock this puppy. For the most part, the system I'm looking at is just like sixate's up top. The case however is this: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...on=11-129-122. And I'm using dual channel Corsair XMS memory: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...on=20-145-403. Do I need another 120mm fan, _and_ a heatsink? Any help would be appreciated.

08-01-2003, 11:54 AM	#22 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Thought so. Reviews say that it's got good airflow, and a filter to keep dust out and everything. I decided to go with the 2500+ Barton that you originally suggested. I am getting 2 sticks of the 256 memory to get that 512. It's really just the fan/heatsink thing I'm stuck on. If anyone could direct me to an awesome heatsink and fan that'll do the job I need I'd be very grateful. I'm gonna need it to stay plenty cool, cuz I'd like to overclock it as much as I can, but I also can't spend a _ton_ of money on a cooling system. Definitely no more than 50 bucks for the two. Also, I'd prefer it to be relatively quiet. Thanks again.

08-01-2003, 12:04 PM	#23 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Another thing about the fan: apparently the front spot for the fan in the case can fit only a 25mm wide 120mm fan or smaller.

08-01-2003, 12:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I'm gonna direct you to a different place. CoolerGuys seem to have better prices for fans and crap like that. This is where I bought all my fans and heatsink. Also bought my fan controller and cathodes here too. They have great service. Heatsink, this is the one I have and I think it works great: Thermalright SLK 800 $37.99 120mm fan (25mm thickness) $9.95 80mm fan (heatsink) $5.95 I have this fan on my processor and everything is very cool. It blows plenty of air and isn't too loud. It doesn't have a 3 pin connector to plug into the motherboard so if you go with that fan you'll probably have to turn off the ability for your motherboard to detect the fan speed of fan on the processor or every time you reboot there will be an alarm that goes off saying that the processor fan isn't working even though it is. You may want to check newegg and see if they have cheaper prices on these products because I'm sure they have them, but I bet they're more expensive. Their hardware is really cheap, but cooling products seem to be a little high to me. One last thing. Good choice on the processor. You won't be disappointed. Last edited by sixate; 08-01-2003 at 12:44 PM..

08-01-2003, 01:15 PM	#25 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Those all look great...How does the 80mm one work though? It looks like it pushes a TON of air, but is noisy as heck. I may be wrong, but that's just what the numbers are telling me. Other than that, it looks like just the right solution for me. Also, what's the deal with this arctic silver III stuff? It looks like it does a pretty dang good job at giving the system some additional cooling.

08-01-2003, 01:21 PM	#26 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I have that same 80mm fan and the noise isn't bad, but if you're looking for a quieter fan check this one out. It's the same brand as the other, but it's a medium speed fan, not a high speed fan as the other one I posted. 80mm, 32 dBA, 39.0 CFM $4.95

08-01-2003, 02:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Alright, Here it goes - As of right now, this is my entire system, totalling approximately $1120...It's about 855 before the monitor, and I think I'll go out looking elsewhere for a better deal on a monitor this afternoon. The thirty dollars shipping and handling hurts me . Case: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=11-129-122 CD/DVD Combo Drive: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=27-106-192 Hard Drive: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=22-144-118 Keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=23-126-123 Memory: (Two of these) http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=20-145-403 Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=24-180-002 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=13-130-419 Mouse: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=26-104-138 Processor: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=19-103-379 Sound Card: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=29-118-101 Video Card http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=14-102-256 120mm fan: http://www.coolerguys.com/Merchant2/...e=840556017004 80mm fan for heatsink: http://www.coolerguys.com/Merchant2/...e=840556017899 Heatsink: http://www.coolerguys.com/Merchant2/...e=840556031031 That's all of it I think :P. I had to do away with the speakers. The monitor has speakers built in, and I just don't have the abilty to pay an extra 65 dollars. I was wondering if a sound card will still be necessary. Will it make much of a difference? I don't really want any of my processing power being taken away because I don't have a sound card though, so it's staying for the time being. If any of you guys sees something that's not going to be compatible, or you forsee a problem, please inform me. :P Thanks.

08-01-2003, 02:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	That'll be a nice system after you get it together. I think a sound card is necessary, and there will be a huge difference between that card and the onboard audio. Do you already have speakers or are you gonna use some old ones for a while?

08-01-2003, 02:32 PM	#29 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	I'm probably gonna steal a decent set of speakers from a friend who doesn't use 'em anymore. They should be sufficient. How about the memory? The 2 sticks of 256 corsair XMS dual channel sounds pretty impressive, but is it worth the price? Will it really run much better than a single 512 stick?

08-01-2003, 02:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	It won't be better than a stick of 512 if it's also XMS dual channel, but it will be better and worth the extra money if it's compared to the stick of 512 that I suggested at the top.

08-01-2003, 03:02 PM	#31 (permalink)
gamer715 Insane Location: here	Actually with the nForce2 motherboard chipset, the two sticks will make you go faster than one single 512 stick. Also, I've got the MSI K7N2G-L motherboard (integrated graphics -- I'm cheap), and in my opinion its onboard sound is sufficient for gaming and audio, unless you're an audiophile who's gonna get high-end speakers (I use high-end headphones, and I can't notice a difference between my onboard sound and that from an Audigy). Also, on the hard drive, that's a good drive for a good price, but check your local weekly circulars for Best Buy and CompUSA and especially OfficeMax, they run some pretty sick hard drive deals (if you're willing to wait for a mail-in rebate). Other than that, all great choices, especially on the processor. I love my XP2500, and I overclocked it to 2040mhz with the stock heatsink and stock voltage, and my temperatures at load are still sub-50C. (Again--I'm cheap) __________________ What 'chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

08-02-2003, 08:27 AM	#32 (permalink)
poof Psycho	Thanks Sixate for the sound input, no pun intended. I am tired of trying to get driver support from Creative. They are like Symantec, Microsoft in the way they want to take over your 'puter. I bought a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz last night and haven't installed it yet. Did a TFP search on it, and it has been recommended more than once. Anybody want to buy an Audigy 2 Platinum with black and beige face plates?

08-06-2003, 11:38 PM	#33 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Alright, so I've ordered everything above, and I have all of it sitting in my livingroom with the exception of the hard drive which should be here tomorrow morning. I decided I'd start to put the thing together. I almost immediately came up with a question for ya sixate (since I'm using pretty-much an identical cooling system as you), how do you place the 80mm fan on top of the heatsink and keep it there? And you only need the thermal grease stuff on the underside of the heatsink where it directly touches the processor yes? Can't remember if I had anymore questions...I'll report back if I run into anything else. =)

08-07-2003, 04:45 PM	#34 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Any help would be appreciated. =) I just need to know how or where to attach the fan on/around the heatsink. I'd obviously need some sort of glue to put it on the top :P Thanks.

08-07-2003, 04:53 PM	#35 (permalink)
h2g2Fan Loser Location: University of Maryland at College Park	bake, pay an extra $100 for assembly and standardized warranty with a big company. Most of the people who are answering your questions are people who have built computers many times over. I'm on my third self-made computer, but it really doesn't seem like you're quite ready to do it on your own.

08-07-2003, 05:08 PM	#36 (permalink)
h2g2Fan Loser Location: University of Maryland at College Park	For starters, prices of two chips. A moderately ranged p4 and close to the highest model for AMD. $170 Pentium 4 2.4GHz 800 $242 - Athlon XP 3000 Edge goes to P4. OpenGL / Q3 benchmarks, 2.4 p4 barely wins in all settings over the xp 3000. Edge goes to P4. DirectX 8 GameS: Varying winners depending on game, but very close results. Tie. Synthetic Benchmarks: 3dmark. P4 wins in most settings by a significant amount, amd wins at one setting by a small margin. Edge to P4. Raw data processing: mp3 maker platinum: very in favor of P4. Archiving/WinRAR/SETI: All in favor of P4. Strong edge to P4. Well I could go on for awhile but basically all of the edges go to the cheaper P4. The same priced 2.8 ghz P4 simply blows away the AMD. I get my benchmarks from http://www.tomshardware.com, and prices from http://www.pricewatch.com

08-07-2003, 06:05 PM	#37 (permalink)
bakerocks Upright	Well I do have a few friends who are helping me as we speak...but none have encountered the problem with the heatsink that I stated above. Other than that we'll be just fine.