In Preparation for Windows 7 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 09-01-2009, 02:04 PM

I promised to build myself a new computer for the October 22nd launch of Windows 7. I have given myself a $2500 budget. The last time I put together a computer was about a year and a half ago when I built my SO's. I'm a bit removed from the market now and I wonder if I could get some advice. Here's what I am trying to accomplish:

- Case: Large, quiet fans and great air flow. Must look professional and not too flashy. I hate lights.
- CPU & Mobo: Best on the market at that point.
- CPU Heatsink: I'm guessing Zalman, unless someone can suggest better
- Graphics: Also best on the market. Trying to decide on SLi or just one pimped out card.
- HDs: Two of them; one for OS and one for Files. SAS or SATA?
- Audio: I already have a 6.1 sound card and speakers, the only thing I'm missing is the ability to output sound to my entertainment system stereo.
- DVD-RW: Do they make SATA drives yet because ribbon cables really cramp my style.
- Monitor: I have a Sony 21" 4:3, but it has a few years of burn-in scars. I was surprised at how easily it got burn-in. Maybe I need to switch brands. Looking for a very large widescreen.

kutulu · 09-01-2009, 08:57 PM

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-technology/150310-ultimate-gaming-computer.html thread is a nice template to go off of.

Look at this stuff:

COOLER MASTER COSMOS S RC-1100-KKN1-GP Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives - OEM
EVGA 017-P3-1295-AR CO-OP Edition GeForce GTX 295 1792MB 896 (448 x 2)-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported ... - Retail
Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 1000W Continuous Power ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified ... - Retail
OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail
COOLER MASTER Intel Core i7 compatible V8 RR-UV8-XBU1-GP 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail
Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - OEM
ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail
LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray Reader SATA Model iHOS104-06 - OEM
LITE-ON 24X CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model iHAS324-08 - Retail

That right there is just over $2,200 at newegg.

i7 is kick ass, no doubt. The motherboard can support 3-way sli (the power supply does not but I don't know if that is even possible with the 295). One limitation of the motherboard is that it only has 6 SATA slots.

I love the look of the cosmos case. If I could have afforded to spend $200 on a case that would be it. They have variants with windows or aluminum.

IMO, sli is great for upgrading because it can allow you to take advantage of what you already have but if you are starting from scratch you might as well go for 1 great card over two good cards. Someday the two good cards will be two shitty cards but the great card will still be good. At that point you can get a matching good card and be back on top again.

For an extra $120 you can upgrade the HDD to 2TB.

If you really want to go crazy and can go $300 over budget (what's an extra 12%?) you can swap the SSD for a regular 1TB drive and upgrade the processor to the i7 975. That is the top retail processor but it costs $700 more than the i7 920.

Xerxys · 09-01-2009, 09:37 PM

I have nothing to add besides GASP! your gonna spend more than $400 on a puter?!?!

Vigilante · 09-02-2009, 12:21 AM

Don't forget to put Linux on it

Core i7 is supposed to be insanely fast. I'd bump it up to a 950 though.

One thing most don't think of, but it's a requirement in my home - get yourself a beefy APC backup battery/UPS. I never run a machine without one. Freakin love 'em.

Halx · 09-02-2009, 04:24 AM

1000 Watt power supply? Wow. They're gonna be thinking that I'm growing weed in my apartment.

Does a solid state disk do what I think it does? Is it like booting your OS from RAM?

kutulu · 09-02-2009, 07:10 AM

A power supply only uses as much power as you need it to at that time. 1000 W is definitely overkill but you need extra capacity if you plan on someday switching to sli. EVGA recommends at least 680W for a single GTX 295.

Solid state is essentially flash memory so it is really fast. I have that same drive and I love it but I have to wonder if the money could have been better spent on upgrading the processor or graphics card.

braisler · 09-02-2009, 09:04 AM

Great thread. I'm making the same plans myself, but on a much more modest budget. I start to get a little concerned when I think about spending more than a grand on a computer.

What I'm doing, which may help you Halx, is to buy some of the more fixed tech items along the way as I find them on sale. Newegg and other retailers routinely have a really good sale price on a case, or a power supply, or a DVD-RW drive (which, by the way, they do have SATA interface for now). Whether it is with a rebate or whatever, I'm shopping for that stuff along the way. There isn't likely to be that big of a change in the technology available in these areas, nor the prices of them at market in the next couple of months.

This obviously doesn't work for the mobo, video card, or processor. You want to wait until the last to buy those to make sure you are getting the best tech at the best price. But it might work for even the harddrive. Say you'd like to have a 1TB storage drive in the system. I just keep an eye out for major makers offered at what I feel is a good price. I saw one from Dell business the other day for $47 shipped after discounts. I missed out on that one myself, but you get the idea.

Halx · 09-02-2009, 11:55 AM

I am thinking of getting this case and just removing all the LEDs
Newegg.com - Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases

Reese · 09-02-2009, 02:31 PM

The Antec 300 isn't as flashy as the 900 but it's nearly identical on features and it's half the price.

If you're concerned with wiring, definitely get a modular PSU.

biznatch · 09-04-2009, 07:05 PM

I'd recommend the 300 as well. Haven't put any extra fans in the thing, and it stays cool. Also, it's black, no LEDs, and simply classy looking.

twister002 · 09-06-2009, 07:10 PM

Be careful if you go SSD and really research the drives. Some of them are as slow or slower than traditional platter drives.

dippin · 09-06-2009, 07:38 PM

Yes, if you are going for a SSD (and with your budget I dont see why not) get something like one of the intel drives with read speeds of up to 250mb/s. No point getting a SSD with a speed drive under 100mb/s read speed.

Halx · 09-08-2009, 05:59 AM

Thank you for the tips on the SSD drives. I have another question about them: Do the sectors "wear out"? I read the wikipedia article on them and it seemed to suggest that sectors wear out after a few rewrites.

Shauk · 09-08-2009, 06:44 AM

honestly I feel SSD technology is a bit "faddy" right now, being an early adopter is often times one of those things that make you facepalm later.
see: paying 500$ for a 1x cd burner. (yes I did this, early adopter fail)

braisler · 09-08-2009, 07:26 AM

I'm a little wary of the SSD too. I love the idea of the speed, but I've read a bit about sector burnout like Halx mentions. And I'm concerned about the price/performance issues like Shauk raises. I'm thinking of a small(er) SSD to put the OS and commonly used apps on, and a larger standard HD for storage and install of less used apps.

I also just saw that Intel has released the Core i5 series. How is this going to impact i7 prices in the near future?

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

For any of you system builders on a budget like me, I just found the Corsair 750 watt power supply at ZipZoomFly for $100 with free shipping and a $20 MIR. Final price $80 (actually $79.99) shipped. $10 cheaper than NewEgg. It is a pretty robust power supply from a good name manufacturer. Deal expires today, 08/09, so get in quick if you want it.

The only downside that I saw is that it doesn't have modular cables. Not a big deal to me as I've got a good sized case and can tuck the cables up and out of the way.

Glory's Sun · 09-08-2009, 07:36 AM

not really relevant to this particular discussion..but when you get windows7 you can teardrop attack again. yay.

Full Disclosure: Windows Vista/7 : SMB2.0 NEGOTIATE PROTOCOL REQUEST Remote B.S.O.D.

anyway, back to the tech talk.. I have some stuff to ask later on about a build I want to do (employer funded)

braisler · 09-14-2009, 10:45 AM

To revive this thread I'd like to ask everyone's opinion of going with the i7 920 and a compatible mobo vs. going with another quad-core pentium like the Q9400 and its compatible mobo. I've got a more limited budget than Halx. I'm wondering what is going to get me the best bang for the buck. Processor/mobo vs. GPU vs. SSD I guess is what my issue boils down to. Of course, I recognize that replacing the video card or adding in an SSD is an easier upgrade that replacing the whole mobo, but we're not talking upgrades right now. Just what will get me the fastest running system for around $1300.

If I save some money on the processor/mobo without too much compromise in quality, I could spend more on the video card, or consider a SSD drive for the OS and most commonly used programs. It seems to me that the start-up time for the computer, and the load time for most programs is limited by the speed of the HD and not by processing power. If this is the case, wouldn't a SSD setup be a wise investment?

My use of the system is maybe 60% daily web-use, 30% games, 10% photo/video editing.

I look forward to any comments.

kutulu · 09-14-2009, 03:55 PM

The SSD is a luxury. I wouldn't sacrifice processor or GPU for it.

braisler · 09-14-2009, 04:11 PM

Well yeah, but it is all kind of a luxury, no? I don't NEED to have the i7 920 processor. I don't NEED to have a GTX295 video card or 2 in the machine.

My point is what is going to give me the best price/performance ratio. I've read that SSD gives lightning fast load time for the OS and for programs and that sounds awful nice, as my current computer seems to have about a 4-5 minute time from the moment I hit power to the time that I can actually use it to do what I want to do. Sure windows 'loads' in 140 seconds or whatever, but it continues to do something that prevents me from doing what I want to do for at least another 2 minutes after that. Cutting that down would be beautiful.

dippin · 09-14-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

Well yeah, but it is all kind of a luxury, no? I don't NEED to have the i7 920 processor. I don't NEED to have a GTX295 video card or 2 in the machine.

My point is what is going to give me the best price/performance ratio. I've read that SSD gives lightning fast load time for the OS and for programs and that sounds awful nice, as my current computer seems to have about a 4-5 minute time from the moment I hit power to the time that I can actually use it to do what I want to do. Sure windows 'loads' in 140 seconds or whatever, but it continues to do something that prevents me from doing what I want to do for at least another 2 minutes after that. Cutting that down would be beautiful.

If you are talking about 4 or 5 minute load times, while a SSD might help in all likelihood you would see a very big improvement just from a reformat (or at least a registry clean and disabling of start up programs). Not even my very old and slow IDE drive took that long to load vista.

braisler · 09-15-2009, 05:46 AM

Again, we aren't talking about an upgrade to my old computer. We are talking a whole new system. And yes, for the record, I did completely wipe and reinstall XP on that system. It helped a little bit, but not enough. I wouldn't put an SSD drive in my old computer. It would be like transplanting a new heart into a 80 year old patient with advanced kidney failure.

So can anyone weigh in on the processor/mobo vs. GPU vs. SSD price per performance question?

kutulu · 09-16-2009, 03:43 PM

What I meant to say was that you should be able to have both the i7 and a nice graphics card for $1300.

CPU i7 920 $280
Mobo Asus P6T $250
RAM 6GB DDR3 $120
PSU 650W $100
Cooler $80
HDD 1 TB $100
Burner $20
Case $100
GPU GTX 275 $250
Total $1300

If you need to buy an OS you can save about $70 by downgrading the GPU to a GTX 260.

Redjake · 09-18-2009, 05:10 AM

slickdeals.net today has Win 7 Pro for 29.99 if you are an enrolled student. includes grad, undergrad, etc.

spindles · 10-09-2009, 12:56 PM

I was discussing a new work computer for myself with a work colleague yesterday. We started talking SSDs as we are both finding that our machines are bottlenecked at the hard drive.

We use SVN as our source control and every time I go to update my local repository or commit files, my whole machine goes so slow it almost appears to be hung. Our local computer supplier has cautioned against rushing into SSD, so we are holding off any purchases. Also not worth jumping before Windows 7 is out.

Is anyone considering running a 64bit version of windows 7? Vista supported the hardware, but getting drivers for a lot of things (especially older external things) was a pain in the butt. We are guessing that Windows 7 might improve the driver situation and also more apps will come out that are native 64 bit.

Martian · 10-09-2009, 03:26 PM

Addressing the issue of solid state and burnout:

Solid state drives consist of flash memory -- essentially, an SSD is a USB thumb drive in a 2.5" or 3.5" format. SSD's are capable of a fixed number of operations, that much is true. However, a modern drive with good design and wear leveling will typically outlast a standard platter drive. The issue is mechanics -- a magnetic platter hypothetically is only capable of a fixed number of writes as well, but mechanical failure is far more likely. The SSD, lacking any moving parts, is not prone to this problem, so the only thing you really have to worry about in terms of reliability is that write limit.

It's hard to say for sure how long SSD's will last on average, since they're still quite new to the market. For typical home use, though, data points to them at least theoretically lasting decades before wearing out.

In terms of performance, though, the gains aren't as great as you'd think. Flash memory is not DRAM, and will not perform to that level. It can outperform a platter drive, and is particularly good at random read operations due to the fact that it nearly eliminates seek times. Write times are often a bit underwhelming, though.

It'll be faster, but not blazing fast. It will be (theoretically at least) far more reliable than a platter drive. But you'll also pay for that.

So long as you're following typical data security practices (ie, keeping important data in more than one location) there's no reason to fear SSD's.

mmbcook · 10-12-2009, 12:43 PM

From what I understand, reading is incredibly fast, but writing is considerably slower. I use 10,000rpm raptors in a raid array with good success. With Win7, and Win7 64bit.

kutulu · 10-12-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmbcook

From what I understand, reading is incredibly fast, but writing is considerably slower. I use 10,000rpm raptors in a raid array with good success. With Win7, and Win7 64bit.

It all depends on the drive you are buying. I haven't kept up since I bought mine but it looks like the write speeds have improved significantly to where they are nearly as fast as the reads.

tcp · 10-12-2009, 02:30 PM

Get a small capacity (and therefore less expensive) SSD for your Windows install only. Move your Users directory to a second HDD (possibly a Raptor) and install any non-essential programs on the secondary as well.

Also, I dont know their current status, but when I was shopping around a couple of months ago, I found that it's still gonna be a while before DDR3 gets decent timings.

Silverbrain · 10-14-2009, 04:34 PM

I took am looking at a possible upgrade to my 5 year old rig for a Win7 upgrade. Although my budget is much...much less than 2500 )) Let me know what you decide!

Halx · 12-19-2009, 11:29 AM

I made a wishlist, but I wonder if this is overkill..

Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg

Martian · 12-19-2009, 06:22 PM

Few quick comments:

Unless you're planning on overclocking, you don't need active cooling on your RAM. Get 12 GB of OCZ for less.

The differences between the P6T and the P6T Deluxe as far as I've ever been able determine are an extra ethernet port and a few extra USB ports. Not worth the extra $80, in my opinion.

If you want a solid state drive, I wouldn't bother with an 80 GB. A 30 GB drive is more than enough for OS files, and if by some unforseen event you need to page anything it'll handle that too. Personally, I'd skip the SSD entirely and get 2 TB in traditional drives.

The system you've built will never, ever draw 1000w. A 750 watt PSU will be fine. Enermax is good, although I like Antec. If you're worried about saving the planet or lowering your electric bill, anything 80+ certified is good.

I personally wouldn't spend the cash on a GTX 285, but I suppose if you want the best of the best than that's pretty much it.

Halx · 12-20-2009, 10:19 AM

Ok, replaced the RAM and the mobo. Removed the power supply 'cause the one I have now is 750W.

Maybe I am mistaken about SSD's but I'm seeing a huge difference in read speed. I see 80gb as necessary 'cause I want to load multiple games on this system. If the games load in 10 seconds, I'm so there.

Martian · 12-20-2009, 10:41 AM

I was under the impression that the SSD was for your OS only. If you're putting all your games on there too, then an 80 GB is more reasonable.

Access times on SSD's are substantially lower, there's no denying that. I just don't personally think it's worth the premium you pay. I suppose given the extra room in your budget now, there's no reason not to.

Halx · 12-20-2009, 06:28 PM

Well, yeah, what's the point of an SSD if it's not launching your programs too?

Zeraph · 12-20-2009, 07:31 PM

*checks to make sure he still has his window's xp CD* Yup, I'm prepared

Cynthetiq · 12-28-2009, 08:38 PM

Q: regarding the i5 and the i7 will I be losing much by not going to Win7 and sticking with XP????

Vigilante · 12-29-2009, 12:57 AM

Probably not. Both OSes will haul ass on that platform.

The one thing you might miss is if you run 32bit XP, you won't see more than about 3.5GB of RAM max. On win7 64bit you'll see whatever you put in there. The difference is in 32bit kernel vs 64bit kernel there.

09-01-2009, 02:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	In Preparation for Windows 7 I promised to build myself a new computer for the October 22nd launch of Windows 7. I have given myself a $2500 budget. The last time I put together a computer was about a year and a half ago when I built my SO's. I'm a bit removed from the market now and I wonder if I could get some advice. Here's what I am trying to accomplish: - Case: Large, quiet fans and great air flow. Must look professional and not too flashy. I hate lights. - CPU & Mobo: Best on the market at that point. - CPU Heatsink: I'm guessing Zalman, unless someone can suggest better - Graphics: Also best on the market. Trying to decide on SLi or just one pimped out card. - HDs: Two of them; one for OS and one for Files. SAS or SATA? - Audio: I already have a 6.1 sound card and speakers, the only thing I'm missing is the ability to output sound to my entertainment system stereo. - DVD-RW: Do they make SATA drives yet because ribbon cables really cramp my style. - Monitor: I have a Sony 21" 4:3, but it has a few years of burn-in scars. I was surprised at how easily it got burn-in. Maybe I need to switch brands. Looking for a very large widescreen. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-02-2009, 12:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	Don't forget to put Linux on it Core i7 is supposed to be insanely fast. I'd bump it up to a 950 though. One thing most don't think of, but it's a requirement in my home - get yourself a beefy APC backup battery/UPS. I never run a machine without one. Freakin love 'em. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

09-02-2009, 04:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	1000 Watt power supply? Wow. They're gonna be thinking that I'm growing weed in my apartment. Does a solid state disk do what I think it does? Is it like booting your OS from RAM? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-02-2009, 09:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Great thread. I'm making the same plans myself, but on a much more modest budget. I start to get a little concerned when I think about spending more than a grand on a computer. What I'm doing, which may help you Halx, is to buy some of the more fixed tech items along the way as I find them on sale. Newegg and other retailers routinely have a really good sale price on a case, or a power supply, or a DVD-RW drive (which, by the way, they do have SATA interface for now). Whether it is with a rebate or whatever, I'm shopping for that stuff along the way. There isn't likely to be that big of a change in the technology available in these areas, nor the prices of them at market in the next couple of months. This obviously doesn't work for the mobo, video card, or processor. You want to wait until the last to buy those to make sure you are getting the best tech at the best price. But it might work for even the harddrive. Say you'd like to have a 1TB storage drive in the system. I just keep an eye out for major makers offered at what I feel is a good price. I saw one from Dell business the other day for $47 shipped after discounts. I missed out on that one myself, but you get the idea. __________________ --- You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. - Albert Einstein ---

09-02-2009, 11:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I am thinking of getting this case and just removing all the LEDs Newegg.com - Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-01-2009, 08:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-technology/150310-ultimate-gaming-computer.html thread is a nice template to go off of. Look at this stuff: COOLER MASTER COSMOS S RC-1100-KKN1-GP Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives - OEM EVGA 017-P3-1295-AR CO-OP Edition GeForce GTX 295 1792MB 896 (448 x 2)-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported ... - Retail Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 1000W Continuous Power ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified ... - Retail OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail COOLER MASTER Intel Core i7 compatible V8 RR-UV8-XBU1-GP 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - OEM ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray Reader SATA Model iHOS104-06 - OEM LITE-ON 24X CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model iHAS324-08 - Retail That right there is just over $2,200 at newegg. i7 is kick ass, no doubt. The motherboard can support 3-way sli (the power supply does not but I don't know if that is even possible with the 295). One limitation of the motherboard is that it only has 6 SATA slots. I love the look of the cosmos case. If I could have afforded to spend $200 on a case that would be it. They have variants with windows or aluminum. IMO, sli is great for upgrading because it can allow you to take advantage of what you already have but if you are starting from scratch you might as well go for 1 great card over two good cards. Someday the two good cards will be two shitty cards but the great card will still be good. At that point you can get a matching good card and be back on top again. For an extra $120 you can upgrade the HDD to 2TB. If you really want to go crazy and can go $300 over budget (what's an extra 12%?) you can swap the SSD for a regular 1TB drive and upgrade the processor to the i7 975. That is the top retail processor but it costs $700 more than the i7 920.

09-01-2009, 09:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	I have nothing to add besides GASP! your gonna spend more than $400 on a puter?!?!

09-02-2009, 07:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	A power supply only uses as much power as you need it to at that time. 1000 W is definitely overkill but you need extra capacity if you plan on someday switching to sli. EVGA recommends at least 680W for a single GTX 295. Solid state is essentially flash memory so it is really fast. I have that same drive and I love it but I have to wonder if the money could have been better spent on upgrading the processor or graphics card.

09-02-2009, 02:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	The Antec 300 isn't as flashy as the 900 but it's nearly identical on features and it's half the price. If you're concerned with wiring, definitely get a modular PSU. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

09-04-2009, 07:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	I'd recommend the 300 as well. Haven't put any extra fans in the thing, and it stays cool. Also, it's black, no LEDs, and simply classy looking. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

09-06-2009, 07:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
twister002 Crazy	Be careful if you go SSD and really research the drives. Some of them are as slow or slower than traditional platter drives.

09-06-2009, 07:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	Yes, if you are going for a SSD (and with your budget I dont see why not) get something like one of the intel drives with read speeds of up to 250mb/s. No point getting a SSD with a speed drive under 100mb/s read speed.

09-08-2009, 05:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Thank you for the tips on the SSD drives. I have another question about them: Do the sectors "wear out"? I read the wikipedia article on them and it seemed to suggest that sectors wear out after a few rewrites. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-08-2009, 06:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	honestly I feel SSD technology is a bit "faddy" right now, being an early adopter is often times one of those things that make you facepalm later. see: paying 500$ for a 1x cd burner. (yes I did this, early adopter fail)

09-08-2009, 07:26 AM	#15 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	I'm a little wary of the SSD too. I love the idea of the speed, but I've read a bit about sector burnout like Halx mentions. And I'm concerned about the price/performance issues like Shauk raises. I'm thinking of a small(er) SSD to put the OS and commonly used apps on, and a larger standard HD for storage and install of less used apps. I also just saw that Intel has released the Core i5 series. How is this going to impact i7 prices in the near future? ---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ---------- For any of you system builders on a budget like me, I just found the Corsair 750 watt power supply at ZipZoomFly for $100 with free shipping and a $20 MIR. Final price $80 (actually $79.99) shipped. $10 cheaper than NewEgg. It is a pretty robust power supply from a good name manufacturer. Deal expires today, 08/09, so get in quick if you want it. The only downside that I saw is that it doesn't have modular cables. Not a big deal to me as I've got a good sized case and can tuck the cables up and out of the way. Last edited by braisler; 09-08-2009 at 07:27 AM.. Reason: Added date info

09-08-2009, 07:36 AM	#16 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	not really relevant to this particular discussion..but when you get windows7 you can teardrop attack again. yay. Full Disclosure: Windows Vista/7 : SMB2.0 NEGOTIATE PROTOCOL REQUEST Remote B.S.O.D. anyway, back to the tech talk.. I have some stuff to ask later on about a build I want to do (employer funded)

09-14-2009, 10:45 AM	#17 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	To revive this thread I'd like to ask everyone's opinion of going with the i7 920 and a compatible mobo vs. going with another quad-core pentium like the Q9400 and its compatible mobo. I've got a more limited budget than Halx. I'm wondering what is going to get me the best bang for the buck. Processor/mobo vs. GPU vs. SSD I guess is what my issue boils down to. Of course, I recognize that replacing the video card or adding in an SSD is an easier upgrade that replacing the whole mobo, but we're not talking upgrades right now. Just what will get me the fastest running system for around $1300. If I save some money on the processor/mobo without too much compromise in quality, I could spend more on the video card, or consider a SSD drive for the OS and most commonly used programs. It seems to me that the start-up time for the computer, and the load time for most programs is limited by the speed of the HD and not by processing power. If this is the case, wouldn't a SSD setup be a wise investment? My use of the system is maybe 60% daily web-use, 30% games, 10% photo/video editing. I look forward to any comments.

09-14-2009, 03:55 PM	#18 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	The SSD is a luxury. I wouldn't sacrifice processor or GPU for it.

09-14-2009, 04:11 PM	#19 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Well yeah, but it is all kind of a luxury, no? I don't NEED to have the i7 920 processor. I don't NEED to have a GTX295 video card or 2 in the machine. My point is what is going to give me the best price/performance ratio. I've read that SSD gives lightning fast load time for the OS and for programs and that sounds awful nice, as my current computer seems to have about a 4-5 minute time from the moment I hit power to the time that I can actually use it to do what I want to do. Sure windows 'loads' in 140 seconds or whatever, but it continues to do something that prevents me from doing what I want to do for at least another 2 minutes after that. Cutting that down would be beautiful.

09-15-2009, 05:46 AM	#21 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Again, we aren't talking about an upgrade to my old computer. We are talking a whole new system. And yes, for the record, I did completely wipe and reinstall XP on that system. It helped a little bit, but not enough. I wouldn't put an SSD drive in my old computer. It would be like transplanting a new heart into a 80 year old patient with advanced kidney failure. So can anyone weigh in on the processor/mobo vs. GPU vs. SSD price per performance question?

09-16-2009, 03:43 PM	#22 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	What I meant to say was that you should be able to have both the i7 and a nice graphics card for $1300. CPU i7 920 $280 Mobo Asus P6T $250 RAM 6GB DDR3 $120 PSU 650W $100 Cooler $80 HDD 1 TB $100 Burner $20 Case $100 GPU GTX 275 $250 Total $1300 If you need to buy an OS you can save about $70 by downgrading the GPU to a GTX 260.

09-18-2009, 05:10 AM	#23 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	slickdeals.net today has Win 7 Pro for 29.99 if you are an enrolled student. includes grad, undergrad, etc.

10-09-2009, 12:56 PM	#24 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	I was discussing a new work computer for myself with a work colleague yesterday. We started talking SSDs as we are both finding that our machines are bottlenecked at the hard drive. We use SVN as our source control and every time I go to update my local repository or commit files, my whole machine goes so slow it almost appears to be hung. Our local computer supplier has cautioned against rushing into SSD, so we are holding off any purchases. Also not worth jumping before Windows 7 is out. Is anyone considering running a 64bit version of windows 7? Vista supported the hardware, but getting drivers for a lot of things (especially older external things) was a pain in the butt. We are guessing that Windows 7 might improve the driver situation and also more apps will come out that are native 64 bit. __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

10-09-2009, 03:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Addressing the issue of solid state and burnout: Solid state drives consist of flash memory -- essentially, an SSD is a USB thumb drive in a 2.5" or 3.5" format. SSD's are capable of a fixed number of operations, that much is true. However, a modern drive with good design and wear leveling will typically outlast a standard platter drive. The issue is mechanics -- a magnetic platter hypothetically is only capable of a fixed number of writes as well, but mechanical failure is far more likely. The SSD, lacking any moving parts, is not prone to this problem, so the only thing you really have to worry about in terms of reliability is that write limit. It's hard to say for sure how long SSD's will last on average, since they're still quite new to the market. For typical home use, though, data points to them at least theoretically lasting decades before wearing out. In terms of performance, though, the gains aren't as great as you'd think. Flash memory is not DRAM, and will not perform to that level. It can outperform a platter drive, and is particularly good at random read operations due to the fact that it nearly eliminates seek times. Write times are often a bit underwhelming, though. It'll be faster, but not blazing fast. It will be (theoretically at least) far more reliable than a platter drive. But you'll also pay for that. So long as you're following typical data security practices (ie, keeping important data in more than one location) there's no reason to fear SSD's. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

10-12-2009, 12:43 PM	#26 (permalink)
mmbcook Upright	From what I understand, reading is incredibly fast, but writing is considerably slower. I use 10,000rpm raptors in a raid array with good success. With Win7, and Win7 64bit.

10-12-2009, 02:30 PM	#28 (permalink)
tcp Crazy	Get a small capacity (and therefore less expensive) SSD for your Windows install only. Move your Users directory to a second HDD (possibly a Raptor) and install any non-essential programs on the secondary as well. Also, I dont know their current status, but when I was shopping around a couple of months ago, I found that it's still gonna be a while before DDR3 gets decent timings.

10-14-2009, 04:34 PM	#29 (permalink)
Silverbrain Addict Location: Nor Cal	I took am looking at a possible upgrade to my 5 year old rig for a Win7 upgrade. Although my budget is much...much less than 2500 )) Let me know what you decide! __________________ Over Thinking, Over Analyzing Seperates the Body from the Mind - MJK

12-19-2009, 11:29 AM	#30 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I made a wishlist, but I wonder if this is overkill.. Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

12-19-2009, 06:22 PM	#31 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Few quick comments: Unless you're planning on overclocking, you don't need active cooling on your RAM. Get 12 GB of OCZ for less. The differences between the P6T and the P6T Deluxe as far as I've ever been able determine are an extra ethernet port and a few extra USB ports. Not worth the extra $80, in my opinion. If you want a solid state drive, I wouldn't bother with an 80 GB. A 30 GB drive is more than enough for OS files, and if by some unforseen event you need to page anything it'll handle that too. Personally, I'd skip the SSD entirely and get 2 TB in traditional drives. The system you've built will never, ever draw 1000w. A 750 watt PSU will be fine. Enermax is good, although I like Antec. If you're worried about saving the planet or lowering your electric bill, anything 80+ certified is good. I personally wouldn't spend the cash on a GTX 285, but I suppose if you want the best of the best than that's pretty much it. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-20-2009, 10:19 AM	#32 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Ok, replaced the RAM and the mobo. Removed the power supply 'cause the one I have now is 750W. Maybe I am mistaken about SSD's but I'm seeing a huge difference in read speed. I see 80gb as necessary 'cause I want to load multiple games on this system. If the games load in 10 seconds, I'm so there. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

12-20-2009, 10:41 AM	#33 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	I was under the impression that the SSD was for your OS only. If you're putting all your games on there too, then an 80 GB is more reasonable. Access times on SSD's are substantially lower, there's no denying that. I just don't personally think it's worth the premium you pay. I suppose given the extra room in your budget now, there's no reason not to. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-20-2009, 06:28 PM	#34 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Well, yeah, what's the point of an SSD if it's not launching your programs too? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

12-20-2009, 07:31 PM	#35 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	checks to make sure he still has his window's xp CD Yup, I'm prepared

12-28-2009, 08:38 PM	#36 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Q: regarding the i5 and the i7 will I be losing much by not going to Win7 and sticking with XP???? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-29-2009, 12:57 AM	#37 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	Probably not. Both OSes will haul ass on that platform. The one thing you might miss is if you run 32bit XP, you won't see more than about 3.5GB of RAM max. On win7 64bit you'll see whatever you put in there. The difference is in 32bit kernel vs 64bit kernel there. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill