dippin

I am about to upgrade my computer. Nothing major, as I really couldn't justify spending major bucks for that. So I was looking at some of the middle to low range AMDs.

In trying to decide between the phenom II 9xx and the phenom II 7xx series, it was brought to my attention that you can unlock a 4th core on the 7xx series, and that it is easily oc'ed so that the performance of the 7xx is closer to that of the 9xx series. Great, I thought. But then I saw the cooling requirements to pull that off. So my question, going beyond the specifics of this case, is what is the point? What is the point of getting a lower end cpu and overclocking it to reach the performance of a superior chip if you are going to have to spend pretty much the difference in price in a better cooling system? Especially given how no OC is guaranteed?

I was about to pull the trigger and buy the 720, but then I started looking at aftermarket heatsink and fans and decent ones cost around 30 bucks at least (plus shipping and whatever compound I use), which in essence bumps the price of the 720 BE ($119) closer to the price of a 945 ($169).

Xerxys

It's my understanding that the people who do overclock, do it solely for the "wow" factor. To show that it can be done.

I am willing to bet that the computer you are attempting to upgrade can be replaced easily by another one from walmart that will last you just as long as you need it to. The folk that deal with this are hobbyists that do it because it's fun, not cost effective. If you want practicality I'm afraid you'll have to pay for it.

Vigilante

I've been OCing for almost a decade. Let me explain a few things.

OCing in and of itself is a hobby. It takes time, patience and lots of trial and error. Every platform has a different method and when the platform is new, sometimes things that worked on the previous fail on the new.

I don't OC for the wow factor. I OC because I can have performance that is not being offered by any CPU manufacturer. I've had 300 dollar chips (and less) that beat the very highest $1000+ CPU being offered on the market. For me it's not about who I tell, it's about how much shit can I do on my rig. I hate performance limitations, so if I can open 20 programs and still play my favorite game of the month, then I'm happy.

I typically bring my CPUs to their maximum speed and highest voltage allowable, then back it down and find a slightly lower stable max with a much lower voltage. That lowers heat output a lot and gives me a daily speed I can live with.

I buy the watercooling hardware for a given platform, and adapt it to the new one when I can. Recycle, reuse, save money. OC it to a freakishly fast beast machine, and then forget about it for the next 6 months, at which time I just check water levels and top off if necessary. I spend, say, $800, and get the performance of $2000.

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dippin

Well, actually, no. If I bought a new pc from walmart I would be buying a bunch of stuff I simply don't need. My upgrade involves a new cpu and maybe a motherboard.

And OC'ing can be extremely cost effective at the mid to high range. The difference in price between an i7 920 and an i7 950 is about 300 dollars, so it is a lot cheaper to get the 920 and OC it to 950's speed.

I just don't get why it is done at the low to mid range, where difference in price between different gen processors is around 30-40 bucks.

---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ----------


I understand this. And the last time I did a top of the line computer I OC'ed the hell out of it too. But I just don't get the reason behind doing it at the low level. AMD's Phenom II 720 BE has a huge following because you can unlock the 4th core and easily overclock it. I just don't get the reason, since that type of OC where you are messing around with voltage and so on requires top of the line cooling, and it would just be easier and cost the same to get a 945 at stock speeds...

Vigilante

Well yeah in that case I get what you mean. However if they already had most of the setup and just needed a cheapo CPU, then I could see why they might want that one.

I think it also has to do with the hack factor as well. Some people just want to hack or tinker, and if they get to do that with a cheap CPU, then I get that. They also like to see exactly how much they can pull off performance-wise with older rigs or see if they can get the highest benchmark for a given CPU by putting in insanely fast equipment with the most challenging (read: slowest stock speed) CPU they can have something unique on the futuremark's ORB.

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spira

When I put together my first computer, it was out of random parts we had lying around the house. Because these were just scrap pieces taken out of other computers when they were upgraded, I overclocked the CPU so that I could play games and such. Granted, my "cooling system" was just taking the side panel off of the case and pointing a fan in that direction, so...

Reese

Money is still an issue. It you must have the processor now you can choose a cheaper CPU and when you get some extra money down the line you can invest in some proper cooling and OC it later. You also have to consider that if you CAN overclock, wouldn't you end up spending an equal amount of money on cooling when you inevitability end up OCing the better processor thus making it the more expensive of the two again?

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Vigilante

Not even close.

In my case, if I started out fresh (no previous watercooling equipment):
$300 for lower CPU
$300 for watercooling (I've made a cooling loop on $150, so this is well within limits)
The OC speed will be far above a stock $1000 CPU.

Different socket, but check the price Newegg.com - Intel Core2 Extreme QX9775 3.2GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 771 150W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops
At the time I bought my Q6600, the highest intel had to offer was a $1000 CPU. My overclock, plus watercooling, plus motherboard, case and RAM all lumped together, beat the shit out of that CPU. My CPU was much much higher performance due to out of spec buses, and the whole system was still cheaper than that one CPU.

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill

Shauk

it's not worth it to OC imo

I used to be a pretty hardcore modder and honestly it's just a pain in the ass, you lose the price difference in spending more on cooling and then there is labor costs (assuming you're like me and mentally charge yourself labor fees for the amount of time you're wasting not actually taking advantage of your free time to do what you really want to be doing)

not to mention your deliberately pushing up your electicity useage (not such an issue for one computer, but if you're like me, you're talking 3+ computers which can start turning those nickels and dimes to dollars.)
Also every time you change your board/cpu type, you'll risk having to make adjustments to your cooling set up which incurs even more costs.

I only spend the bare minimum on computers to get the games I want to play to run at 30-60fps anyways so I'm not really going to care too entirely much about cpu intensive stuff anyways. Rendering video or something usually means you're going to be at it for a few hours anyways so I usually take off and go do something so that those extra 15 minutes saved or whatever don't really apply to me.

Lasereth

OCing is fun and challenging but in the end you may always end up with BSODs for no reason. You can buy the most worshiped parts, use the best guides, and use the safest settings and it may still be totally unstable for no apparent reason. That alone makes it not worth it to me. Then you have to worry about which component is causing the instabilities, etc. You end up dumping money into it just to get the OC to work when you could have just bought a higher end CPU anyway.

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Vigilante

Lasereth, I have had that problem only once, and it was the motherboard that caused it. It was the ASUS A7V, which was a bitch of a board. Other than that, I never, and I say this in all serious, never have BSODs from a tested max overclock, run daily. I don't reboot for months at a time either, aside from occasional updates.

If you speed it up, test various parameters for a few weeks, then you get years of daily OC speed out of it. Test the obvious first, the CPU cache with highest multipliers, then lower the multi and test the buses. Next test the northbridge, where applicable. After that, bring the speed up on both bus and multi and run all those tests again. Once you've done that, checked hardware temps (I do them manually) and checked voltage stability under load, you have your set-in-stone overclock.

If you're bored in the evenings or in college, it's easy. Now that I'm working nights, there is no way I would have time for all of that, however.

I hardly use my machine now and I don't game anymore, so I'm running stock. As Shauk said it can eat electricity, so for me now the benefits are not there. But a couple of months ago, I was running 3.6GHz on my Q6600 for over a year. Never had one instability, even installing windows and linux.

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We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill

Lasereth

Well sure, if you get a solid set up then you're golden. But the chances of ordering 8 parts from newegg and getting them to all work and love each other is slim on the first try.

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Vigilante

Works for me almost every time (had some bad ram a while back, RMA fixed that). But, in all fairness I do days or even a week's worth of research into exactly what I want before I buy. But yeah, pretty much all of t is through newegg. No guess work.

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill