Google Chrome OS - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Wrexify · 07-08-2009, 04:38 AM

Official Google Blog: Introducing the Google Chrome OS

Quote:

Google Chrome OS is an open source, lightweight operating system that will initially be targeted at netbooks. Later this year we will open-source its code, and netbooks running Google Chrome OS will be available for consumers in the second half of 2010. Because we're already talking to partners about the project, and we'll soon be working with the open source community, we wanted to share our vision now so everyone understands what we are trying to achieve.

Speed, simplicity and security are the key aspects of Google Chrome OS. We're designing the OS to be fast and lightweight, to start up and get you onto the web in a few seconds. The user interface is minimal to stay out of your way, and most of the user experience takes place on the web. And as we did for the Google Chrome browser, we are going back to the basics and completely redesigning the underlying security architecture of the OS so that users don't have to deal with viruses, malware and security updates. It should just work.

An intriguing announcement by Google. It sounds like the operating system of my netbook's dreams, but could they be promising more than they can deliver? It sounds like we're getting the same promises advertised by Apple and Microsoft every time they release a new version of OS X or Windows. If it's designed simply like the Chrome browser, this could be a great thing for the everyday Internet junkie.

What do you think? Anyone excited to see this in action like me? Will it be able to stand up next to Apple and Microsoft for casual users? Remember, Google can do no wrong; it will undoubtedly have no flaws at all.

Halx · 07-08-2009, 05:56 AM

Well, part of the internet experience is the ability to use other applications as well as my browser. Downloading applications to do things that the internet cannot. I can do this with my netbook because it runs XP.

Manic_Skafe · 07-08-2009, 08:37 AM

This is good news but there's already a pretty decent yet largely unsuccessful market for open source operating systems geared towards netbooks. It'll be nice to see what they can come up with but I highly doubt that even their best effort will result in an experience that's more efficient and generally better than I get using XP and Windows 7 on my netbook.

So long as they pull it off, I could see the Chrome OS taking over whatever share of the market that Linux based and other open source OS have but I doubt it'll even make a dent in XP/7 sales.

telekinetic · 07-08-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

This is good news but there's already a pretty decent yet largely unsuccessful market for open source operating systems geared towards netbooks. It'll be nice to see what they can come up with but I highly doubt that even their best effort will result in an experience that's more efficient and generally better than I get using XP and Windows 7 on my netbook.

So long as they pull it off, I could see the Chrome OS taking over whatever share of the market that Linux based and other open source OS have but I doubt it'll even make a dent in XP/7 sales.

Yeah, I'm as excited about this as I thought I would be. It just sounds like a linux build that only runs a full screen version of chrome, possibly with a WebUI home page built to handle certain settings and whatnot.

I'm way more excited by Jolicloud (waiting for my beta invite) and Moblin 2.0.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 02:11 PM

I think it is funny that people say it is a new OS when it is really just an extension of linux....

Martian · 07-08-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

I think it is funny that people say it is a new OS when it is really just an extension of linux....

That is a new OS.

Linux Is A Kernel, Not An Operating System.

Lasereth · 07-08-2009, 02:22 PM

I want to see how fast it boots. That's what laptops need -- an OS that boots up in 3 seconds. There are linux distros right now out that are based around Firefox that boot up really really fast and they're headed in the right direction.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

That is a new OS.

Linux Is A Kernel, Not An Operating System.

Linux is a generic term used to describe OS's based upon the linux kernel. Also the linux kernel is the core of the OS. It is the interface between the hardware and the software and controls the operations of the system (hence the operating system). The linux kernel is the operating system as it is the interface between the application layer and the hardware layer....

Punk.of.Ages · 07-08-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I want to see how fast it boots. That's what laptops need -- an OS that boots up in 3 seconds. There are linux distros right now out that are based around Firefox that boot up really really fast and they're headed in the right direction.

In my experience, Macs have always booted about that fast...

***************************************

This Google Chrome thing intrigues me quite a bit. I'll have to see it in action before I form an opinion about it, though.

Martian · 07-08-2009, 02:36 PM

People who refer to 'Linux' as some monolithic entity are generally people who are unfamiliar with what Linux is and how it works.

A kernel is not an operating system. An operating system is built on a kernel, but it's no more accurate to say that the kernel is the OS than it is to say that the motor is your car.

There are operating systems built on Linux running everything from home PC's to servers to routers to toasters. From the way Google Labs is describing it, Chrome OS sounds like a stripped down operating system intended to run the PC as a net appliance -- it'll let you browse and check email, include Flash and Java support out of the box and likely not do much else. By stripping down the feature set they can reduce the overhead required, and also eliminate a lot of potential bugs. It's a good product for people who just need to be able to get online, but will not (judging again by what I'm reading here) compete with things like Ubuntu or Red Hat. That it's built on the Linux kernel does not really have any bearing on the discussion, since it's not working in the same market space as a full featured Linux distribution.

On the tangent, for those who use Linux there are significant differences between the distros. I have my own preferences based on what each distro does better and what quirks they have. From the outside looking in I'll admit the differences may seem small, but that doesn't mean it's accurate to lump them all together.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

People who refer to 'Linux' as some monolithic entity are generally people who are unfamiliar with what Linux is and how it works.

A kernel is not an operating system. An operating system is built on a kernel, but it's no more accurate to say that the kernel is the OS than it is to say that the motor is your car.

There are operating systems built on Linux running everything from home PC's to servers to routers to toasters. From the way Google Labs is describing it, Chrome OS sounds like a stripped down operating system intended to run the PC as a net appliance -- it'll let you browse and check email, include Flash and Java support out of the box and likely not do much else. By stripping down the feature set they can reduce the overhead required, and also eliminate a lot of potential bugs. It's a good product for people who just need to be able to get online, but will not (judging again by what I'm reading here) compete with things like Ubuntu or Red Hat. That it's built on the Linux kernel does not really have any bearing on the discussion, since it's not working in the same market space as a full featured Linux distribution.

On the tangent, for those who use Linux there are significant differences between the distros. I have my own preferences based on what each distro does better and what quirks they have. From the outside looking in I'll admit the differences may seem small, but that doesn't mean it's accurate to lump them all together.

I am sorry but you are wrong. I have 5 years in college, a BS in computer science, and 5 years working on my PHD in computer science, and 15 years of linux experience to back me up. I have written my own OS for a graduate OS class. In all of my OS classes we never once talked about the applications that are provided (browser, music/video applications, file searching, the guit, etc). Instead we always talked about things like memory management (virtual memory), process management and scheduling, file system managment, etc. The kernel is the core of the operating system. It is what sits between the application layer and the hardware layer. Operating system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The kernel makes up a majority of the OS and thus the reason that Linux is a generic term to describe many operating systems.

The linux kernel alone is not a complete OS. But that is not what i'm claiming. I'm claiming that this OS is going to be built upon the linux kernel which is a majority of the OS and thus is an extension of linux.

Martian · 07-08-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

I am sorry but you are wrong. I have 5 years in college, a BS in computer science, and 5 years working on my PHD in computer science, and 15 years of linux experience to back me up. I have written my own OS for a graduate OS class. In all of my OS classes we never once talked about the applications that are provided (browser, music/video applications, file searching, the guit, etc). Instead we always talked about things like memory management (virtual memory), process management and scheduling, file system managment, etc. The kernel is the core of the operating system. It is what sits between the application layer and the hardware layer. Operating system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The kernel makes up a majority of the OS and thus the reason that Linux is a generic term to describe many operating systems.

The linux kernel alone is not a complete OS. But that is not what i'm claiming. I'm claiming that this OS is going to be built upon the linux kernel which is a majority of the OS and thus is an extension of linux.

Your list of qualifications is impressive and completely meaningless. Sorry.

I can only conclude that you're either being intentionally disingenuous by suggesting that something built on the Linux kernel by definition cannot be new and different, or that you truly cannot grasp the distinction between a kernel and an operating system.

The kernel is an important part of the OS, true. But that's not the full picture. Windows XP and Windows NT 4.0 are both built on the NT kernel, and are both very different in terms of capabilities and power. Ubuntu and IpCop do very different things, despite being built on the Linux kernel.

Applications are designed to work within the context of an operating system, and an operating system can be tailored to work with specific applications. They're relevant to the discussion because this appears to be exactly what Google Labs intends to do/is doing. So far as I'm aware, there is nothing else on the market right now that is designed that way, and it works quite well with Google's online presence regarding things like Google Apps and GMail (and, incidentally is a factor I suspect in those applications recently leaving beta). It may be Linux in that it's built on the Linux kernel. It would be accurate to call it a Linux distro. But to suggest that it's "just an extension of Linux" and that this disqualifies it as an operating system is nonsensical, and belies a complete misunderstanding of what an operating system is and how it works. I cannot make this more clear than I already have.

This discussion got boring. Circles make me dizzy.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 03:16 PM

I am not saying it can't be new or different but merely that this is an extension of what is there. This OS will fall under the umbrella of Linux. Here is a test for you go look up the definition of linux and you will see it is a generic term for any OS built upon the linux kernel. Much as android is a form of linux so to will this OS. (Which is not a bad thing, i personally think linux is a great platform).

A quick test for if something is part of the operating system is can it be removed. For example I would not consider X-Windows to be part of a linux operating system as it is not necessary for the OS to run. Instead X-Windows is an application that works with the operating system to provide functionality. Many applications get bundled with the operating system but that does not make them part of the operating system.

I think Google chrome OS will be interesting and i'm excited to see where it goes but they need to give more credit to all the hard work that has been put in by linux developers.

telekinetic · 07-08-2009, 03:29 PM

So according to you, I should start saying my Mac and my G1 are both running linux?

Martian · 07-08-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

I think it is funny that people say it is a new OS when it is really just an extension of linux....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

... it is a generic term for any OS built upon the linux kernel.

You're telling me a lot of things I already know, and a few that I've already said.

I'm perfectly aware of the distinction between an application and the operating system it runs on. What I'm confused about is the above; in your first post you seem to be suggesting that because Chrome OS is built on the Linux kernel it is not a new OS. You then refer to it consistently as a new OS and further explain that Linux is a term for 'any OS built on the Linux kernel' (nice Wikipedia quote, by the way -- was there no better description in your text books from all your years of University?)

If Chrome is built on the Linux kernel and we define Linux as 'any operating system built on the Linux kernel' (which, as an aside, is a definiton that is somewhat contentious within the Linux community, although given your professed knowledge and love of Linux I'm sure you already know that) then it follows that Chrome is a new OS.

I guess my question here is, what's funny about that? Google's not hiding the fact that this project is built on Linux, and it fits within Google's established operating methods. Why would they build a new OS from scratch when they can start with a well-established off the shelf kernel that does what they need?

twistedmosaic: Depending on which version of OS X you're running, your Mac is using an operating system built on either the Mach kernel or the Unix kernel. Both are part of the *nix family, but neither one is Linux. Android is built on the Linux kernel and thus could be classified as a Linux distro, but saying that your phone runs Linux is akin to saying that you drive a car when asked for a make and model. The term within most daily contexts is so generic as to be essentially meaningless.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

So according to you, I should start saying my Mac and my G1 are both running linux?

Neither the mac or the G1 are running the linux kernel. They have emulated some of the interface but it is not the linux kernel.

---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 AM ----------

if you don't like wiki try one of these:

define:linux - Google Search

The term linux is a generic term used to describe any operating system built upon the linux kernel. I work with this stuff every day and within the community I work with this is the definition.

Martian · 07-08-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

Neither the mac or the G1 are running the linux kernel. They have emulated some of the interface but it is not the linux kernel.

Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the G1 is running Android, which is built on the Linux kernel. By your definition, the G1 is therefore Linux.

This discussion is completely derailed and useless. I accept culpability for this.

It's all semantics anyway. I still don't understand your first post in this topic. I read it as being dismissive and I don't understand why.

Chrome seems like a great OS for netbooks. If I had a netbook I'd be much more excited than I am. It looks cool, and I hope for a chance to play with it when it drops.

EDIT - For clarity, you seem to be misunderstanding my point. One could call any operating system built on the Linux kernel 'Linux,' in the same way one could call any operating system built on the NT or 9x kernel 'Windows.' This is a descriptor based on the underlying technology, and while generic would be broadly accurate. My initial intent was to highlight that this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

I think it is funny that people say it is a new OS when it is really just an extension of linux....

Is misleading. You seem to be suggesting that because Chrome OS is built on the Linux kernel that it is not a new operating system. The kernel is one component of the operating system and arguably the most important one, but that doesn't mean that everything built on one kernel is the same. Your above statement is either poorly worded or outright false, as it implies that being built on the Linux kernel means that Chrome is not a new OS, when clearly it is. Your choice to call it an 'extension of Linux' is also curious; I suppose one could look at an operating system as an extension of prior versions or underlying code, but that's like saying that Left 4 Dead is an extension of Half-Life 2 because it's built on the Source engine.

So, I'm going to ask once in as direct and unambiguous a fashion as I can for you to clarify precisely what you meant by that statement. I may have misinterpreted it. Otherwise, I think I'm done with that aspect of this discussion. Circles still make me dizzy.

Wrexify · 07-08-2009, 08:08 PM

Yes, Google is taking advantage of a Linux kernel as a base for their OS, but they're being careful to emphasize that it's not going to FEEL like Linux-based operating systems we're used to.

To the average user, it's supposed to be an intuitive (and lightweight) new Internet experience. Chrome is targeted at the casual user with few needs; it isn't meant to be a permanent OS for power users.

Manic_Skafe · 07-08-2009, 08:20 PM

Just to move this forward a bit:

Quote:

Engadget: Google names Chrome OS compatriots, Dell noticeably absent

Acer, Adobe, ASUS, Freescale, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Qualcomm, and Texas Instruments -- according to the latest Chrome OS update from Google, you're looking at the company's initial ragtag team of co-conspirators for its entry into the operating system business. With Adobe's involvement, we can assume Flash support is a given, and the others unsurprisingly run the gamut of netbook and smartbook players. We can't help but notice a couple of conspicuous absences on that list, including Intel and Dell. With Intel, you don't need to partner to work on its chips, but we gotta imagine it'd help by offering more support, and as for Dell, we don't know about that one, but there's still plenty of time for the Big G to enlist more companies in the lead up to its second half 2010 debut.

Just as the snippet reads, there's still plenty of time for other companies to come aboard, and I'm sure that they will, but this alone is promising. None of the other alternative OS I've used have cut the muster since I use my netbook primarily to shoot tethered to my camera - it'll be nice to see if Chrome develops into a serious contender with Adobe support.

However, I'd settle if Adobe tweaked flash to use resources more efficiently on netbooks so that I won't have to overclock just run Hulu videos decently.

Rekna · 07-08-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the G1 is running Android, which is built on the Linux kernel. By your definition, the G1 is therefore Linux.

Sorry you are right the G1 is linux. I read mac and G1 but my brain told me G3 (the mac computer). I referred to android earlier as a form of linux. I also have a g1 phone and I got it specifically because it was running linux.

---------- Post added at 04:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 AM ----------

My initial comment was a bit flip because the ignorant news articles and comments (on other websites) I have read failed to mention it was being built upon the linux kernel and many of them went further to say that this OS would hurt linux. I don't think this will hurt linux at all and will actually help linux. Also I think it is important to give credit to the linux community when using their work.

cajun_elf · 08-06-2009, 06:07 AM

Well I'm looking forward to trying it on my netbook.

PulpMind · 08-10-2009, 03:04 PM

This is great news. Unfortunate that it takes a company as massive as Google (or MS or Apple) to create an OS that is relatively easy to use, while the open source community continues to keep Linus out of the technological reach of the average user.

Woo...!

07-08-2009, 05:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Well, part of the internet experience is the ability to use other applications as well as my browser. Downloading applications to do things that the internet cannot. I can do this with my netbook because it runs XP. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

07-08-2009, 08:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
Manic_Skafe More Than You Expect Location: Queens	This is good news but there's already a pretty decent yet largely unsuccessful market for open source operating systems geared towards netbooks. It'll be nice to see what they can come up with but I highly doubt that even their best effort will result in an experience that's more efficient and generally better than I get using XP and Windows 7 on my netbook. So long as they pull it off, I could see the Chrome OS taking over whatever share of the market that Linux based and other open source OS have but I doubt it'll even make a dent in XP/7 sales. __________________ "Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

07-08-2009, 02:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I want to see how fast it boots. That's what laptops need -- an OS that boots up in 3 seconds. There are linux distros right now out that are based around Firefox that boot up really really fast and they're headed in the right direction. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

07-08-2009, 02:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	People who refer to 'Linux' as some monolithic entity are generally people who are unfamiliar with what Linux is and how it works. A kernel is not an operating system. An operating system is built on a kernel, but it's no more accurate to say that the kernel is the OS than it is to say that the motor is your car. There are operating systems built on Linux running everything from home PC's to servers to routers to toasters. From the way Google Labs is describing it, Chrome OS sounds like a stripped down operating system intended to run the PC as a net appliance -- it'll let you browse and check email, include Flash and Java support out of the box and likely not do much else. By stripping down the feature set they can reduce the overhead required, and also eliminate a lot of potential bugs. It's a good product for people who just need to be able to get online, but will not (judging again by what I'm reading here) compete with things like Ubuntu or Red Hat. That it's built on the Linux kernel does not really have any bearing on the discussion, since it's not working in the same market space as a full featured Linux distribution. On the tangent, for those who use Linux there are significant differences between the distros. I have my own preferences based on what each distro does better and what quirks they have. From the outside looking in I'll admit the differences may seem small, but that doesn't mean it's accurate to lump them all together. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

07-08-2009, 03:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
telekinetic zomgomgomgomgomgomg Location: Fauxenix, Azerona	So according to you, I should start saying my Mac and my G1 are both running linux? __________________ twisted no more

07-08-2009, 02:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I think it is funny that people say it is a new OS when it is really just an extension of linux....

07-08-2009, 03:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I am not saying it can't be new or different but merely that this is an extension of what is there. This OS will fall under the umbrella of Linux. Here is a test for you go look up the definition of linux and you will see it is a generic term for any OS built upon the linux kernel. Much as android is a form of linux so to will this OS. (Which is not a bad thing, i personally think linux is a great platform). A quick test for if something is part of the operating system is can it be removed. For example I would not consider X-Windows to be part of a linux operating system as it is not necessary for the OS to run. Instead X-Windows is an application that works with the operating system to provide functionality. Many applications get bundled with the operating system but that does not make them part of the operating system. I think Google chrome OS will be interesting and i'm excited to see where it goes but they need to give more credit to all the hard work that has been put in by linux developers.

07-08-2009, 08:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
Wrexify Crazy Location: Kramerica	Yes, Google is taking advantage of a Linux kernel as a base for their OS, but they're being careful to emphasize that it's not going to FEEL like Linux-based operating systems we're used to. To the average user, it's supposed to be an intuitive (and lightweight) new Internet experience. Chrome is targeted at the casual user with few needs; it isn't meant to be a permanent OS for power users. __________________ "Nitwit! Oddment! Blubber! Tweak!"

08-06-2009, 06:07 AM	#21 (permalink)
cajun_elf Upright	Well I'm looking forward to trying it on my netbook.

08-10-2009, 03:04 PM	#22 (permalink)
PulpMind Addict Location: Portland	This is great news. Unfortunate that it takes a company as massive as Google (or MS or Apple) to create an OS that is relatively easy to use, while the open source community continues to keep Linus out of the technological reach of the average user. Woo...!