Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Technology


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-14-2009, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
Young Crumudgeon
 
Martian's Avatar
 
Location: Canada
[Canada] Bell Throttling/Usage Caps - Is It Ethical?

So I got an email from my ISP today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teksavvy Communications Inc
Dear Valued Customer,

We are writing to you today as many activities are underway to shape/reshape Internet use as you all know it. Over the last year some of you have been made aware and/or have seen activities on throttling in the news or in your daily lives. Another proceeding relating to the Internet in Canada required Telecom providers (Bell/Telus/etc.) to provide ISPs with wholesale service speeds that match those that they offer to their own retail customers. Specifically, Bell has been directed by the CRTC to provide matching speeds which would allow us all to have more flexibility in our day to day online requirements. Instead of adhering to these directives, Bell decided to take this issue to the federal Cabinet and at the same time file a tariff application with the CRTC proposing to introduce Usage Based Billing (UBB) on its wholesale customer accounts.

What does this mean for you, the consumer?

Bell provides TekSavvy with last mile, wholesale DSL access services, which TekSavvy uses to provide you with your Internet access. If Bell were to be allowed to introduce UBB on this service, a cap of 60GB would be imposed on all of its users, with very heavy penalties per Gigabyte afterwards (multiple times more than our current per Gigabyte rate of $0.25/GB on overages). This would inherently all but remove Unlimited internet services in Ontario/Quebec and potentially cause large increases in internet costs from month to month.

If you'd like to make your comments/concerns known about what Bell is attempting to do, please do so here:

Submit a telecom-related request
The TL;DR version is that Bell Canada provides last mile service to all DSL providers in Ontario and Quebec. Bell has already implemented bandwidth throttling on third party customers, and justifies this by claiming that it's okay because they do it to their own customers too. The CRTC has basically told Bell to butt out, but Bell has decided to not only attempt to appeal this, but is also moving to implement usage-based billing for third party subscribers. In other words, rather than actually trying to compete with these grassroots ISPs, Bell has decided to force everyone to offer the exact same service they do.

As may already be apparent, I have major issues with this. Bell's internet pricing is practically price gouging to begin with, and now that the CRTC has told them to share their toys, they've decided that rather than actually compete in a fair market, they'll simply hamstring the competition until nobody's able to offer superior service to theirs. I understand that the network itself belongs to Bell, but even so I think this is poor sportsmanship at best, and at worst may even be monopolistic.

This discussion is pertinent to Canadians, but isn't meant to be exclusive.

For reference:

My ISP
Bell Canada

Note that even though Bell's standard DSL service is available at speeds up to 7mbps, Teksavvy is only able to offer up to 5mbps. This is in direct contradiction to the CRTC ruling referenced above.

Max internet is based on a fibre optic network and isn't relevant to the discussion.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame
Martian is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
Addict
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...
I don't understand the pricing schemes and throttles that seem to pervade North America. I live in a fairly small town in Southern Japan nowhere near the population centers like Tokyo and Osaka. About three months ago I got fiber-optic internet to my apartment, with no installation fee. Right now my wireless net is connected at 144mbps. Yes, you read that right. The lowest speed I've had is 117mbps. The entire package of net, isp, and phone runs me about $50 a month. That's cheaper than my DSL was, and cheaper than dial-up. I love it that better technology gets cheaper here! Did I mention they gave me the modem and router?
__________________
The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference.

"God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO
Ratman is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
Addict
 
My city just voted to allow for a fiber optic network to be built and operated as a local public utility. Pending final financing and the green light from the city council, we'll have fiber to every business within a year, and home within 2-3 years. Yeah!

No more big business to jerk us around with crappy service and crappy rates.
tooth is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
As soon as Time Warner puts Internet usage caps in place here, we are switching to DSL.
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
immoral minority
 
ASU2003's Avatar
 
Location: Back in Ohio
At some point, I will be done downloading large files off the internet. I am very close to this point actually. I would be happy with 100 MB/day internet if it was free.

Now, what they should be worried about is people using the internet to download cable TV shows instead of paying for cable. It is in direct competition to their original business model. Then again, I don't have cable and have more TV shows saved then I can watch. But I get mine from recording over-the-air shows on my Mythbuntu computer.
ASU2003 is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Time to break up the monopoly that Bell has on the telephony backbone.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
Mine is an evil laugh
 
spindles's Avatar
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
Welcome to Australia. Most of the DSL backbone is supplied by Telstra (once government owned), and there have been huge fights and regulation to force them to provide the last mile access to retail ISPs (that compete directly with Telstra Bigpond).

The last thing done was to allow other ISPs rack space inside the telephone exchange to remove this last mile monopoly. Telstra forced people to have a telephone line (and pay phone line rental) to have a DSL service, but there are now a few ISPs providing 'naked' DSL, that doesn't need an actual physical phone connected to it (and doesn't have to pay line rental.

Most of our internet plans have either a hard data limit, after which your speed is severely throttled OR you pay hefty data charges (my current plan has 20Gb included, and if I go over I pay 15c a Mb). This plan also includes all my phone calls within Oz for a fixed amount so for me isn't bad value. I'm rarely using all my allocated data so the limit doesn't really worry me.

Forgot to say - our federal government has just announced a $43Billion plan to lay fibre to 90% of the population. 100M minimum speed. It is going to take 8 years, but at least it is in the pipeline.
__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Last edited by spindles; 04-15-2009 at 06:10 PM..
spindles is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
Young Crumudgeon
 
Martian's Avatar
 
Location: Canada
On the subject, this popped up in my newsfeed today:

Bell defends plan to meter billing for wholesale ISPs

CBC News   click to show 


To contrast this, I dug up an old Ars Technica article analyzing the data that Bell provided when ordered to do so by the CRTC:

Bell's P2P traffic issues "easily and inexpensively solved"

Ars Technica   click to show 


DSLAM stands for DSL Access Multiplexer. It's a lot like a big router that aggregates all of the connections in one or several neighbourhoods (depending on the number of subscribers in a given area) and sends them upstream.

The TL;DR version again:

Bell is claiming that throttling is necessary due to congestion issues. But Bell's own numbers provided last year indicate that there's very little congestion, and what is there is almost entirely at the DSLAM. Furthermore, Bell's analysis of their own network suggests that they're using outdated links out the back of the DSLAMs, which is a relatively inexpensive thing to fix. Upgrading to GigE links at all the DSLAMs will provide roughly double the capacity coming from the DSLAMs onto the primary network, where there's almost no congestion at all.

So Bell's making stuff up to justify their anti-competitive practices. I'm not surprised by this; I just hope the CRTC doesn't buy into it.

As an aside, Bell has been throttling P2P programs for over a year now. This provides serious problems to a variety users, many of whom are quite legitimate. A variety of Linux distros, for example, are moving to P2P distribution models to save the bandwidth costs associated with distributing updates and new versions. The throttling method employed by Bell also has the potential to interfere with other encrypted links, such as VPNs.

The CRTC is set to address the throttling issue in June, but the whole thing is a band-aid at best anyway. The rising popularity of video streaming means that Bell will have to add capacity anyway if they're going to have any chance of meeting their customers' future needs.

The whole thing would be enough to make me want to switch to my local cable provider, if I didn't already know they're just as bad.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame
Martian is offline  
Old 04-21-2009, 10:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
Addict
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...
Comcast just offered up 50mps in an extended are of SF. Price? $130 a month! plus the cap. Plus the upload is only 10mps. I'm down at an average of 130mps, up at around 110mps, all for $50 a month and no cap. America needs to enter the 21st century.
__________________
The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference.

"God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO
Ratman is offline  
 

Tags
bell, canada, caps, ethical, throttling or usage


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:51 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360