A Networking Conundrum - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

guthmund · 06-22-2008, 12:23 AM

I have a fairly small home network that I run a number of gaming consoles through as well as a pair of personal computers.

The first machine runs Vista / Ubuntu and it runs fantastic. I can stream video and audio to each and every console with no problems at all.

The second machine runs XP and it doesn't seem to work at all. It accesses the internet just fine. The router assigns it the proper IP address each and every time the machine boots up. However, none of the other machines on the network can "see" it and, by extension, there is no sharing of files.

I have been all over the internet, tried about a dozen different things and have been rewarded with zilch for my efforts. I have installed the LLTD thing on the XP machine as instructed by Microsoft. I have made sure they're in the same subnet, same workgroup, and checked file permission I can't tell you how many times. I've checked Netbios settings, disabled and re-enabled simple file sharing along with a dozen different other things that I can't properly recall at 3:22 in the morning.

At one time, they communicated with each other beautifully, but now...not so much. I don't know exactly when the rift occured, but I do know they were working great together right before my great service pack install of '08--both SP1 for Vista and SP3 for XP. Somewhere between then and now, they've had a falling out and refuse to talk to one another. I can ping the XP machine from the Vista machine, but I can't get it to pop up in any window of any kind. Likewise, it doesn't pop up on the list put together by my 360 when I stream music, or my PS3 when I look for media servers. I assume the problem lies with the XP machine, but, at this point, who knows, right?

I'm sure it's just some stupid little setting that I've overlooked, but I can't seem to find the tree for the forest, so to speak. If anyone could provide some help, it would be greatly appreciated.

xepherys · 06-22-2008, 06:23 AM

File Sharing permissions. I don't recall exactly what the setting is, but I know when you install SP2 it "repairs" security settings, basically resecuring your machine and borking your network. I believe SP3 for XP does the same. Check what permissions other computers have on your XP machine.

guthmund · 06-22-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

File Sharing permissions. I don't recall exactly what the setting is, but I know when you install SP2 it "repairs" security settings, basically resecuring your machine and borking your network. I believe SP3 for XP does the same. Check what permissions other computers have on your XP machine.

I remembered after installing SP2 that it did so and given the nature of the problem, permissions were one of the first things I checked. I've been over them a number of times and I don't see anything wrong with them.

Of course, it could be just staring me in the face as I can be a great big idiot when it comes to the bones of troubleshooting networks.

thanks, Xeph. Keep 'em coming. I loathe to have to start over from scratch with a fresh install, but that's a bit of work and I'm not even sure it would solve the problem.

EDIT: I should note that I can't "see" the Vista machine from the XP machine either. After re-reading my OP, I realize I failed to mention that. It's like the XP machine is there as I can ping it, but it's invisible.

Hain · 06-22-2008, 10:49 AM

It is a temporary fix, but try installing Hamachi. I have never used it for gaming networks (however my friends have) but have used to to make networks for computers across the internet. I know that when two computers are on the same network, Hamachi works fantastically. Performance is hindered once you have two machines somewhere in the internet ether.

Nimetic · 06-23-2008, 03:09 AM

It's not a personal firewall, windows (inbuilt) or otherwise?

Dunno re Vista, but this is in the network settings properties for XP. Also, you tend to need the "Server" service running if you want to share files.

But I'm guessing firewall... since ping doesn't work, and because I always forget about these new-fangled personal firewall things when doing troubleshooting.

guthmund · 06-23-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimetic

It's not a personal firewall, windows (inbuilt) or otherwise?

Dunno re Vista, but this is in the network settings properties for XP. Also, you tend to need the "Server" service running if you want to share files.

But I'm guessing firewall... since ping doesn't work, and because I always forget about these new-fangled personal firewall things when doing troubleshooting.

Well, the only applicable firewall is the built-in firewall and I turned that off once I noticed I was having problems.

I can, in fact, ping the XP machine from the Vista machine. So, it can conceivably communicate with the stupid thing; I just can't get any of the shared folders to pop up.

I'll double check my services running--I do occasionally bounce around in there and I very well could have changed a setting....

I'll also check out that Hamachi. It would certainly be better to use that then start from scratch.

Thanks all, I've been doing a bit more research and I'm going to take another look at it when I get home to see if anything sticks.

Seanland · 06-23-2008, 11:42 AM

I have a few q's

what type of AV do you have on each system?

and what make / model is your router, and how is it wired?
(i'm going to assume just one router) but still can be helpful.

MikeSty · 06-23-2008, 10:18 PM

A few more specs on the XP system might be of interest, especially if it's Pro or Home or Pro Corporate. I'm not sure of the exact differences, but I'm sure one of them had something to do with file sharing. Someone here might know more about that, and I'm hoping mentioning that might strike a chord.

Here's another Hamachi fan, but I've found it useless for home networking - windows networking generally just sucks. Again, I think it's Home/Pro etc. compatibility. Sorry if you mentioned anything in regards to your XP version, it's late and I'm just throwing stuff out.

Hain · 06-24-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSty

Here's another Hamachi fan, but I've found it useless for home networking

Why? I found it to work great when the units are connected to the same router- they don't use the internet then, as far as I know.

MikeSty · 06-24-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hain

Why? I found it to work great when the units are connected to the same router- they don't use the internet then, as far as I know.

\

Are you sure?

Regardless, I've just found that windows networking sucks. I swear to god I've had files eaten up by it.

Hain · 06-24-2008, 09:57 AM

Positive. When I lived in the dorms of my college, I setup a Hamachi network for myself and all my colleagues so that we could easily distribute files between one another. I was behind a router, which was connected to the school's LAN. File speeds were fantastic, hinting that Hamachi was smarter than to use the internet to send the data first to the main Hamachi network then back to my colleagues, and vice versa. The speeds were comparable to those that actually spent to the time to create real VPNs to their computers, which were absolutely using the school's LAN.

Besides having difficulty with file permissions, I have never had files destroyed by Windows (while using file transfers). Something else foul was afoot I believe. I will give you that it seems convoluted at times after not using for a long time. But this is taken care of by just using some freeware like Cerberus, which sets up FTP transfers from your computer. Really nice- never need to worry about file permissions again.

MikeSty · 06-24-2008, 11:56 AM

Does Hamachi still need to contact the internet though? I suppose I could test this when I get home.

Yeah, I had a few essays eaten as well as a few file permission errors. I've never head of Cerberus, but I might check that out if it's not too resource-intensive.

Hain · 06-24-2008, 12:12 PM

From Hamachi's site:

Quote:

Hamachi is a UDP-based virtual private networking system. Its peers are helped by a third node called a mediation server to locate each other and to bootstrap the connection between them. The connection itself is direct and, once established, no traffic flows through our servers.

Hamachi is not just truly peer-to-peer; it is verifiably secure peer-to-peer.

Hamachi is able to successfully mediate p2p connections in roughly 95% of all cases. This includes peers residing behind various firewalls or broadband routers (aka NAT devices).

So it needs the node initially to figure out where everyone is, but once established, I assume, it figures out the optimal way to send data across.

guthmund · 06-27-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

I have a few q's

what type of AV do you have on each system?

and what make / model is your router, and how is it wired?
(i'm going to assume just one router) but still can be helpful.

Sorry, it's been a busy few days and I haven't had a lot of time to delve much deeper into it.

Both machines have AVG installed on them. Do you think that might be the problem? I dismissed it out of hand as I've always used AVG and never had any problems with it before. I'll definitely check it out though.

The router is a D-Link DGL-4300 and both systems are hooked directly into it with their own separate line. As for wiring it's just your standard run of the mill Cat 6E cable. I haven't changed the physical setup at all in the time since they were working.

Quote:

A few more specs on the XP system might be of interest, especially if it's Pro or Home or Pro Corporate. I'm not sure of the exact differences, but I'm sure one of them had something to do with file sharing. Someone here might know more about that, and I'm hoping mentioning that might strike a chord.

It's XP Home with SP3 installed. I've had simple file sharing both on and off with no difference. I've reset shared files and used the shrpubw command to "reshare" the files and to set specific permissions with no difference.

I've got Hamachi running on both machines, but I haven't had time to set anything up, so I can't say how successful it was...

Seanland · 06-27-2008, 07:00 PM

I have problems hooking up two xboxs on my d-link at home..

I'd say just start from it step by step..

Hook up only one system at a time, and see what the results are.

I also read that some routers are "xbox friendly" so you should try and get the most updated firmware.

You checked all the workgroup stuff so that shouldn't be an issue.

I'd say start with getting the most update stuff you can find, if you haven't ... such as firmware, AVG8.0

can you access the other computer via IE? http:\\computername\ dealio?

06-22-2008, 12:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	A Networking Conundrum I have a fairly small home network that I run a number of gaming consoles through as well as a pair of personal computers. The first machine runs Vista / Ubuntu and it runs fantastic. I can stream video and audio to each and every console with no problems at all. The second machine runs XP and it doesn't seem to work at all. It accesses the internet just fine. The router assigns it the proper IP address each and every time the machine boots up. However, none of the other machines on the network can "see" it and, by extension, there is no sharing of files. I have been all over the internet, tried about a dozen different things and have been rewarded with zilch for my efforts. I have installed the LLTD thing on the XP machine as instructed by Microsoft. I have made sure they're in the same subnet, same workgroup, and checked file permission I can't tell you how many times. I've checked Netbios settings, disabled and re-enabled simple file sharing along with a dozen different other things that I can't properly recall at 3:22 in the morning. At one time, they communicated with each other beautifully, but now...not so much. I don't know exactly when the rift occured, but I do know they were working great together right before my great service pack install of '08--both SP1 for Vista and SP3 for XP. Somewhere between then and now, they've had a falling out and refuse to talk to one another. I can ping the XP machine from the Vista machine, but I can't get it to pop up in any window of any kind. Likewise, it doesn't pop up on the list put together by my 360 when I stream music, or my PS3 when I look for media servers. I assume the problem lies with the XP machine, but, at this point, who knows, right? I'm sure it's just some stupid little setting that I've overlooked, but I can't seem to find the tree for the forest, so to speak. If anyone could provide some help, it would be greatly appreciated. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

06-22-2008, 06:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	File Sharing permissions. I don't recall exactly what the setting is, but I know when you install SP2 it "repairs" security settings, basically resecuring your machine and borking your network. I believe SP3 for XP does the same. Check what permissions other computers have on your XP machine. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

06-22-2008, 10:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Hain has a plan Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere	It is a temporary fix, but try installing Hamachi. I have never used it for gaming networks (however my friends have) but have used to to make networks for computers across the internet. I know that when two computers are on the same network, Hamachi works fantastically. Performance is hindered once you have two machines somewhere in the internet ether. __________________ ////\\// IRONSKY.NET \\//\\\\

06-24-2008, 09:57 AM	#11 (permalink)
Hain has a plan Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere	Positive. When I lived in the dorms of my college, I setup a Hamachi network for myself and all my colleagues so that we could easily distribute files between one another. I was behind a router, which was connected to the school's LAN. File speeds were fantastic, hinting that Hamachi was smarter than to use the internet to send the data first to the main Hamachi network then back to my colleagues, and vice versa. The speeds were comparable to those that actually spent to the time to create real VPNs to their computers, which were absolutely using the school's LAN. Besides having difficulty with file permissions, I have never had files destroyed by Windows (while using file transfers). Something else foul was afoot I believe. I will give you that it seems convoluted at times after not using for a long time. But this is taken care of by just using some freeware like Cerberus, which sets up FTP transfers from your computer. Really nice- never need to worry about file permissions again. __________________ ////\\// IRONSKY.NET \\//\\\\

06-23-2008, 03:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	It's not a personal firewall, windows (inbuilt) or otherwise? Dunno re Vista, but this is in the network settings properties for XP. Also, you tend to need the "Server" service running if you want to share files. But I'm guessing firewall... since ping doesn't work, and because I always forget about these new-fangled personal firewall things when doing troubleshooting.

06-23-2008, 11:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
Seanland Psycho Location: Ontario, Canada	I have a few q's what type of AV do you have on each system? and what make / model is your router, and how is it wired? (i'm going to assume just one router) but still can be helpful.

06-23-2008, 10:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
MikeSty The Computer Kid :D Location: 127.0.0.1	A few more specs on the XP system might be of interest, especially if it's Pro or Home or Pro Corporate. I'm not sure of the exact differences, but I'm sure one of them had something to do with file sharing. Someone here might know more about that, and I'm hoping mentioning that might strike a chord. Here's another Hamachi fan, but I've found it useless for home networking - windows networking generally just sucks. Again, I think it's Home/Pro etc. compatibility. Sorry if you mentioned anything in regards to your XP version, it's late and I'm just throwing stuff out.

06-24-2008, 11:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
MikeSty The Computer Kid :D Location: 127.0.0.1	Does Hamachi still need to contact the internet though? I suppose I could test this when I get home. Yeah, I had a few essays eaten as well as a few file permission errors. I've never head of Cerberus, but I might check that out if it's not too resource-intensive.

06-27-2008, 07:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
Seanland Psycho Location: Ontario, Canada	I have problems hooking up two xboxs on my d-link at home.. I'd say just start from it step by step.. Hook up only one system at a time, and see what the results are. I also read that some routers are "xbox friendly" so you should try and get the most updated firmware. You checked all the workgroup stuff so that shouldn't be an issue. I'd say start with getting the most update stuff you can find, if you haven't ... such as firmware, AVG8.0 can you access the other computer via IE? http:\\computername\ dealio?