Apple vs PC Commercials
 

While I find these commercials quite funny and consider them a brilliant marketing strategy I have to wonder how apple can get away with being so misleading. For example in 1 commercial the PC tapes a camera to his head and said he is getting a camera and the mac says he already has one built in. Many PC laptops already have one built in, it is a matter of personal preference in a PC you have more choices as to what features you want. In another commercial the PC has a medical gown on and says he is getting an upgrade for Vista. He implies that all computers will need an upgrade to run Vista. This obviously isn't true in addition what the commercial fails to mention is when Apple releases a new OS (not an upgrade) they don't support any old hardware.... Furthermore apple implies PC stands for windows which it clearly does not. PC stands for personal computer which can run all kinds of OS's, a couple which I would venture to say are better than OSX and more secure.

So what do you think of this marketing strategy? In many countries this type of advertising is illegal. Do you think Apple is being misleading to its customers?

I personally like the Ads, I think they are well done. Anything said in an Ad has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Commercials are by nature misleading.
Mac did it first and it came with all the software you need to run it as soon as you plug it in. Yes, eventually Windows and PCs are able to catch up to (copy) Mac, but it's fine to suggest that PCs and Windows are lagging behind. It's the truth.
Many computers will need an upgrade to run vista, as it requires more ram and processing power than XP. The implication is that one PC represented by the guy on the left needs an upgrade, not necessarily all PCs.

Unfortunately, your remak about Mac OSX not supporting older hardware isn't true. They sill have upgrades for the PowerPC processors along with the newer Intels.

Most PCs use a Windows operating system, so the connection really isn't out there.
Nope. They are innovators, and they will continue to do so.

Yes, the commercials are incredibly misleading and patently false.

Then again, I severely doubt that Paris Hilton eats Carls Jr regularly, especially after she washes her car in a tiny swimsuit. That commercial was designed to sell a product, and marketers know they can use all manner of mistruths and outright lies until someone sues them for it.

The reason they're safe is that no company owns the term "PC", so no company can claim direct financial damage for the lies. Apple technically sells a "Personal Computer" themselves.

It might have the Macintosh Operating System installed, but it's still a "Personal Computer." It's a clever play on words, because Macintosh marketers know that the tech-unsavvy and less-educated markets link "Microsoft Windows" with "Personal Computer" despite the fact that Linux, Windows, AND MAC OS run on Personal Computers - PCs.

There's an counter-example for every one of their PC's supposed 'downfalls' that either pre-dates Macintosh or does it better, but that doesn't make it any less of a genius marketing campaign.

They're not aiming for the technologically savvy, because that market already chose the appropriate Operating System for themselves. They're aiming at the niche markets; old people and young people, artists and teachers. They've always been a niche computer distributor (less than 5% of computers today use a Mac OS), but I applaud them for doing well at selling to their market.

What he said...The commericals are just exploiting common beliefs not facts

WillRavel - Sure my 7 year old computer may fit into the needs an upgrade to run vista category but my 7 year old mac needs the same to run the latest Mac OS, Apple really isn't saying how their better (because they really aren't) but instead exploiting on the ideas that people have of apple being easier (which is supposedly supposed to be better).

I doubt anyone could make the argument that Mac OS X isn't easier than Windows XP or Vista. Easier is a lot better for a lot of people, as not everyone out there wants a computer to tinker with....of course you can tinker with a Mac like you would with any other computer if you want. The Mac Pro can be expanded to 3 TB of HD space (more if you're willing to customize), 16 GB of RAM, two 3.0 GHz dual core processors, the FX 4500 video card with 512 MB, multiple optical drives, blue tooth, airport (wireless), and a load of others.

Sure I could. Where do you want me to start?

FTP? Active Directory? Networking? Device Drivers?

Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder, and there are a lot of Administrative tasks that are much more complicated on Mac OSX.

FTP: Fetch is the easiest file transfer service out there, much simpler than programs like SmartFTP.
Active Directory: http://www.apple.com/itpro/articles/adintegration/ nuff said
Networking: How about plug and play? Hooking up a Mac to anything, whether it be another computer, LAN, internet, etc. involves less steps and doesn't go wrong. I've never been able to set up a simple network on a Windows run computer without problems.
Device Drivers: Seriously? Mac comes with most drivers already installed. Windows machines do not.

Server admins definitely could Apple servers have been plagued with bugs, hardware failures and many other problems. The techs in my department were all huge mac fans 2 years ago. So much that when we ordered new file servers they got Apple servers. Now they are on the phone with tech support almost weekly. Now they complain a bunch about how much they dislike macs and how bad their tech support is.

I would argue from personal experience that windows xp is "easier" than mac osx.

I just saw two commercials I hadn't seen before. I think the commercials are very funny, not enough to make me want to change to mac though.

Get back in line and buy what you are told.:icare:

if you've grown up PC, a PC will be easier, if you've grown up Mac, a Mac will be easier, if your never used a computer before, a Mac is NOT easier, which ever system your friends kids, grandkids use will be easier.

I'm not even going to argue about the Mac vs. PC debate, but this comment sums up the entire pages of thread that might ensue.


Also: you can build a much more powerful PC with the same amount of dollars than you could a Mac. You just need to know how to put it together and troubleshoot any device problems. You pay for synergy and aesthetics with Macintosh computers.

You'd have to include the cost of theoretical labor in that total for the built computer. How much would it cost to have a tech put in ram, upgrade processor and hd, etc?

It's like saying that Volkswagen is cheaper than Audi because I can put in a turbo myself. Not everyone can or wants to tinker.

As someone who is a salaried, professional Software Analyst, testing computer software for defects, security concerns and usability, I can say that there is minimal difference in acceptance difficulty for users on a Mac and users on a Windows PC.

Most of the differences are application specific rather than OS specific, and depend entirely on the quality of development for that particular application.

As a part-time web developer, I can also say that I use Photoshop CS2, Imageready CS2, Dreamweaver MX 2004 interchangeably between the OSes and see no reason to declare either at a disadvantage. The availablity of Firefox and Safari and their similarities make standards-based development easy and ideal.

As a student, I can also say that word processing, Internet research and presentation software works identically across both Operating Systems.

As a Computer Science student, I can say that creating platform independent software, as well as using the latest IDEs is much more efficient, less time-consuming and much higher quality when I use software available for Windows.

Finally, as a gamer, I can say that I cannot playthe more than 100 gaming software titles that I own on a Macintosh operating system. Even were it supported on the OS or distributed as a Universal binary, the hardware I need would be much more expensive in a Macintosh than it would be in a home-built PC running a Windows or Linux OS.

It has nothing to do with usability, but of practicality. I have used some very poor software designed for a Macintosh OS, and I have used some very poor software designed for a Windows OS.

However, if I were concerned about creating software that the majority of the market could use, I would develop it for a Windows machine. If I were concerned about being able to play the latest games, I would use a Windows machine. If I were conered about being able to customize my computer, I would use a Windows or Linux machine. If I were concerned about a budget, and wanted the highest power/cost ratio, I would built a PC utilizing Windows or Linux. If I were concerned about desktop publishing, web developing or media creation, I would use either, interchangeably.

The fact of the matter is that the majority still needs the former, not the latter, and Macintosh will remain an inferior (by market share) and niche-marketed computer.

The majority of my work is performed on a PC, but I often work in labs which have a Macintosh and a PC on a two-port switcbox; I can choose either, and I typically choose the Windows PC.

In short, commercials that highlight imagined differences between the two pander mostly to fear, rather than truth. I have yet to see an example of a task that was dramatically harder when using a Windows-based PC than when using a Macintosh computer.

I dont think the labor cost would effect the over price any and is so small it could be considered irrelevant. Most computer shops that i go to will change your processor, mount it, and install the ram for free because it is such an easy task and takes less then 5 min to do. Most places ive seen charge usually around $50/hr for labour, and installing most of these parts takes no where near that time. I believe the store i frequent charges a flat rate, $60 to assemble a system for you. Even then most people have a friend or know someone who "knows" computer and will do it for free or a small fee.

I also like the new commertials, way better then the stupid "switch" adds i think mostly because i like Justin Long as an actor and think he's funny, not because i like apple(which i dont).

Exactly! For each his own. If you know PCs, buy a PC. If you know Macs, buy a Mac. Educated PC owners can put together an entire PC in less than 30 minutes. Putting in RAM, upgrading the processor, and adding hard drives can be done in 5 minutes or less.

I find the commercials slightly humorous but also quite pompous. Sort of like most Mac users I know personally. Not Macs themselves, mind you, but Mac users. That I know personally.

The content of the commercials is a joke, of course, but that doesn't stop me from seeing how well-done they are. This is marketing at its best.

Dell also had a pretty good marketing campaign for its laptops just before Christmas last year. It was a bit more honest than the current Mac commercials, as they didn't imply that Dell was the only company to make laptops with the abilities advertised, as Apple seems to be implying in their current ads.

"I'm a Mac"

"And I'm a PC"

"PC, what are you doing?"

"I'm playing that great new game that just came out."

"...damn."

Meh, to each their own. I find that Mac users come in two camps. Die-hard fans who are fairly creative and computer savvy, to idiot-savants like me who like the user-friendly plug n' play aspect of Macs.

I currently have a Dell (worst customer service ever) desktop and a Mac laptop (best customer service). I've reinstalled Windows XP 37 times in the past 5 years due to os complications etc. I have never had to reinstall my Mac OS ever. It is stable, and easy to use.

I like my PC because of the games (of course), but I prefer the usability of my Mac. I also feel that Mac applications are "better". Even head to head with Microsoft - i.e. - MS Office is much better on my Mac than on my PC. Same company but the apps are better on the Mac OS. I have no idea why. But it just seems like Apple takes more care to put out solid products while Microsoft is sloppy, careless. Almost everything is a "beta" or needs "bug-fixes".

Wait, aren't you an Unreal superstar? Unreal was released for Mac OSX and Windows. I just played it a few minutes ago. And it didn't lag. And I pwned.

I find users can be more compatible with one or another platform. It doesn't necessarily follow the "artistic rebel" stereotype often attributed to Mac owners, but that can play a part. Some swithchers have a sort of post traumatic stress disorder from problems on one platform and just need a change. I usually see this going from PC to Mac, but it's a two-way street. Other users just have a better support community in one or the other world. For most non-computer-professionals/hobbyists, that's usually the best reason to switch in either direction.

Easier? Depends on the job and what's installed. My own experience says there's a bit more consistency in the Mac world if you don't stray far from the Apple brand, largely due to the single-vendor integration already mentioned. That can be good or bad depending on how much you want to make these things a hobby. The vast landscape of Windows products tends to complicate every decision. That's good if you're into it, but I run into customers daily who just want the damn things to work. It's discouraging to them when they leave for a month and don't know how to answer the 30 "please update me" dialogs that now litter their screens. Both platforms share this complexity problem but Mac is a bit better at being an appliance.

The religion/pomp/complex of any user is a separate factor. Not much different from nationalism, it's usually based on too little experience with "them" and not a little frustration or fear. That never helps understand the strengths & weaknesses of each. I take exception to anyone with years of experience applying their own preference to another user's needs unless they'll end up as the support community for that user. My own experiences over too many years has almost nothing to do with what any particular user should choose, though it may help me to help them decide.

Finally, about the "PC" complaints way up above: recall that IBM co-opted that term with their PC back in '81. Lots of us were offended. IBM was the new kid on the block and we'd used the term generically for years. Such is life. Though its use can depend on context, in platform discussions it is shorthand for the wintel world. I have a tough time believing anyone posting in this forum hasn't already been through plenty of "PC vs. Mac" discussions. Pick a better target. Like, hasn't the average PC guru moved beyond the 80's, button-down, IBM geek, stereotype? God, I hope I don't look like that.

And 7 years later, you're still playing it, waiting for the next decent game released on a Mac.

COUGH!bootcampCHOKE!!

Sorry, must have had something caught in my throat.

I'll let you IT professionals and gamers sort out the PC vs. Mac debate because frankly I'm not even remotely qualified to offer an opinion. However, given that I do watch TV on a fairly regular basis, I do want to point out that computer or car commercials don't have the long-reaching effect that drug commercials have. Since the FDA legalized those about 5 years ago, the inflationary growth curve for prescription drug prices has turned up quite a bit. The drug companies stopped relying on doctors to push their meds and went directly to the consumer to get them to ask for drugs BY NAME. These name-brand drugs rarely have generic equivalents, so the profit margin on these adds is astronomical.

I'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled smack-talk now as long as you remember that Levitra can give you a happier, healthier sex life.

Like World of Warcraft (plus Burning Crusade)? Or The Sims 2? Age of Empires 3? Doom 3? Everquest? Halo? Lego Star Wars? Mac Payne? Medal of Honor? Star Wars Battlefront (the best console game ever, inho)?

Also, now that Mac is Intel run, won't it be easier to play PC games on Macs? Edit: Oh, duh, Bootcamp. Ty, Cyrnel.

Yes, some developers are still stuck in the 90s, only releasing games on consoles, Windows or both, but huge companies like Blizzard have been releasing games for both Mac and PC for a long time. I remember playing Starcraft back in 1998 on my Mac and I still enjoy games, like Unreal 2004, on my Mac.

Unreal 2007 is going to be on Mac, too.

There's more to gaming than the best sellers. Either way, you better LOVE the games you get, 'cause there aren't nearly enough.

The number of games for Mac can be counted with -undred or maybe -ousand.. Windows PC? At least in -illions..

Boootcamp.

The games will still run way better on a pc due to the lack of hardware for the mac. you get 3 choices for a video card, low end (7300), mid range high end (1900xt), and mid range high end workstation card (4500 fx quatro). if mac supported all of nvidia and ati's cards it might be a different story.

The FX 4500 with 512 MB isn't anything to sneeze at.

i agree, its just not a gaming card, i would think apple would ditch the ati card and use the nvidia 8800gtx and use it in sli like they do with the 7300. i would think a mac pro with a pair of 8800gtx's would give a compairable pc gaming machine a run for its money. i would think it would be cheaper to, doesnt it cost like and extra $1600 to add the fx 4500 to a mac pro? a pair of8800gtx would be a little cheaper assuming it would cost the same as the pc version.

Bill Gates On Mac Ads: I Don't Even Get It

I couldn't agree more - while the ads are stylish they certainly are lies.

It's computer partisanship. Just preaching to the choir.

Both sides pick their targets, real or imagined. Get them together so the factual errors go away and people begin to lose their comfy religion.

I don't like the commercials because they're misleading, but you can't really bash them because like will said all commercials are out to sell.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: Pure genius!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...006031,00.html

Ironically, Charlie Brooker's PC crashed twice while he was writing that very article for the Guardian, and the offices of the Guardian are humming with the sounds of Macs, only very few PCs. Not good at office stuff, eh?

He uses far outdated complains like the old 'Mac's only have a one click mouse', hmmm, wel my Mighty Mouse, which is an apple product that comes with all Mac computers, has a right click, 360 degree scroll, and side buttons. The poor guy probably hasn't used a Mac in at least 10 years. So why are people reading an article written by a man willing to damn a computer that has completely changed over the last 10 years without using one?

If Macs are so horrible, then why does Windows continue to copy Mac?

One thing that I've noticed about the ads is that they have recently been much more concilliatory than they were, before. The ads used to be very aggressive, implying that PCs were useless and that Macs were better in every way. Now, you'll see them implying that PCs have their niche and that everyday people who have everyday (creative) needs should get a Mac. Has anyone else noticed this? Where did this change in attitude come from?

ok seriously, I own a macbook pro and a desktop pc. They are two completely different things. The laptop is nice but OS X will never, ever replace windows. In fact I am typing this in Bootcamp. My "technically" inferior PC also runs games way better than this macbook pro does in bootcamp. Mac's are great for their purpose, being tools for people who do not care to understand/learn a Windows machine. So many Apple elitists have these ridiculous misconceptions about Windows. My copy of XP on this laptop is 10x more stable than OS X on the same machine. And wireless in OS X is a joke. On the same machine I can connect to a wireless network that's right next to me with a perfect connection in XP and in OS X I get one bar. That's ridiculous.

Also, I could have spent half the cost of this $2500 laptop and got a PC laptop with better specs and paid at least $700 less. Mac's are all about aesthetics. End of story. Apple's tech support is also really not great. Not that I've ever had to deal with Dell or anything like that since I build all my Window's machines myself.

Just so you know, there were laptops that came with cameras integrated in them long before the Macbook Pro came around (Mac's first integrated camera).

Just so you know, a lot of things that Apple claims to have done first were done first by others.

My biggest pet peeve with Macs though is the complete and utter wrong propaganda that Mac fans try to spread about their software and Windows software. These commercials are very accurate in displaying that.

*Edit*
Also, I wanted to add that just in case anyone wants to bring up the fact that Macs don't get viruses, there is a specific reason for that, and it has nothing to do with OS X's security. The simple fact is that nobody wants to make viruses for Mac's because frankly not enough people use them for it to be a big deal. So nobody even bothers.

will, saying "a mac can do that too" is just like saying a Honda Accord can hit 180mph. Sure, probably can.. with a few modifications.

Besides, the points about technology defining your personality were pretty funny. You gotta admit.

The first integrated iSight was actually in the "Rev C" iMac line, intruduced 10/12/05. This was also the first Apple Remote computer. The PowerMac didn't come out until 2006. Why do people just post information that they make up or guess?
And they are....
Not likely. Apple actually made a challenge to anyone in the world if they can make a virus for Mac OSX they would win $25,000. Also, Mac presents a challenge. I can write a virus that can get through Vista, but no one has ever been able to get through Mac Security.

I think that Honda would be more like Sony or HP, it has a large market share and isn't that expensive. Mac is more like BMW or Porsche. It comes fast and stable, without the need for modifications.

I think the guy was really pissed and I'm not sure why. What drives someone to "hate" a product or the people that use it? I'm sure if we met, he'd like me just fine.

More like a jaguar: you have to take it to a mechanic to change the battery.

Well you say without need for modifications, but I mention the things I care about and you tell me there's a workaround for it.

One MORE thing: I used to work with a Mac and PC side by side. Both did their jobs the same except the Mac had one glaring disadvantage. Word processing. I don't know, maybe its the way I use my keyboard to do stuff, but I found that the functionality of a mac's input devices as well as the actual word processing program (MS Word) severely slowed down my work. I always preferred the PC to simply *type*

I don't know about Macs or mac owners, but I've long been of the opinion that BMWs and Porsches are overpriced, overrated and sold on brand power. The only people that really support them are the lot that bought one and had to justify to themselves it was worth it. And I don't even need to bring up the standard 'compensation' issues.

I've never noticed a difference in word processing, but it'll depend on what kinds of coputers you work on.

I'm really curious why people think that the Apple/PC commercials are filled with misinformation. I've never seen one that said Mac has more games or that or that you can modify a Mac like a PC. They are clear.

Maybe I should list the ones I'm familair with:
1) Sabotage: In this add, PC has apparently hired someone to replace the Mac guy and say that the PC is better. The Mac guy shows up and fake says he likes Macs. It really wasn't making an argument, it was just being cute or dumb.
2) Tech Support: In this add a tech guy joins the cast in order to add a camera with tape. Mac guy explains that the camera is already ready to go without trouble and built in with the Mac. The hardware and software is ready to go on all new iMacs, MacBooks, and MacBook Pros. No need to install anything, load software, etc. It's true. As to the PC, some PCs do have a built in camera, but only some, and not all of them are ready to go when you plug and go.
3) Surgery: PC is wearing a hospital gown and getting ready for a Vista upgade. "Like a lot of PCs, I have to update my graphics card, my memory, and if I want the premium package I need a faster processor." says the PC. The argument the add is making has to do with how some PCs do need to upgrade in order to keep up with Vista. Why? The last version of Windows came out 10/25/01. The last version, 5.1 service pack 2, came out in mid 2004. Many people have only needed to upgrade for extra stuff, like games and media. You can run MS Office on a 6 year old machine (if you can get it to last that long, which isn't likely). The last version of Mac OS X to come out was 10.4.8, which came out in September of 2006. 10.5 comes out in the spring. Mac constantly upgrades and improves. Windows is slower to upgrade, so either the jumps are much bigger, and you might need to upgrate to keep up, or the jumps are smaller, and Windows isn't keeping up with Mac OS X. It's rather lose/lose.
4) Sales Pitch: Mac: "Hellow, I'm a Mac." PC: "...and BUY a PC!" PC uses popups and flashy BS to advertize. I'm sure we've all seen the Dell or HP commercials with flashy prices and little substance. Mac, sarcastically: "That's very subtle."
5) Meant for Work: In this, PC is covered in stickers. He complains about having to deal with kids. I think that we can all agree that Mac's software is much easier for kids. You don't need to know anything more complicated than how to read or use a mouse.
6) Counselor: In this add, we see PC and Mac are in therepy dealing with their issues. PC says that he feels inadequate. "PCs get viruses, we can't do as much out of the box," both of which are true. iLife comes with all the creative software anyone needs to start right out of the box, which PC recognizes.
7) Better Results: In this add, PC proudly explains how he just finished a home movie. Mac says that he has also just finished a movie. Mac's movie is supermodel Gisele Bundchen, obviously representing quality and looking professional. PC's home movie is a man in a dress. Has anyone here had a chance to use Windows DVD Maker for Vista yet? I have! It's similar to the first incarnation of iMovie, but it is missing ease of use and many features (like the ability to use iTunes, for example).
8) Self Pity: In this add, Mac is wearing a suit, which sparks PC's curiosity. Mac explains that Macs have been able to run Microsoft Office for years (true). PC gets sick because he feels like he's lost his edge.
9) Accident: In this add, PC is in a wheel chair and has casts on both arms and his left leg. When Mac inquires, PC explains how his power cord was tripped over. Mac explains how MacBooks have a magnetic power cord that simply pulls off when pulled. There is no danger of accedentally pulling your computer off your desk.
10): Angel/Devil: In this add, Mac has a photobook made from iPhoto. When PC looks at it, the cliche Devil and Angels appear, and then he hadns back the book. No message here, just entertaiment.
11) Trust Mac In this add, PC is in disguise. PC complains that he has to take extreme measures because he is plagued by spyware out there. Mac doesn't have to worry about Spyware and viruses.
12) [B]Out of the Box[/]: In this add, each of our comptuer representatives is in a box. Mac says he's thinking about making a movie, or a website, or trying out his built in camera. PC has to download some drivers, erase trial software, then read through some manuals. Mac doesn't come with trial software at all. Nothing expires after 30, 60 or 90 days. You get it, and you don't have to worry about it again.
13) Touche: In this add, they introduce themselves
Mac: "Hey, I'm a Mac."
PC: " and I'm a PC."
Mac: "and I'm a PC, too."
Mac goes on to explain how you can run either Mac OSX or Windows on an Apple, which makes him the only computer you'll ever need. PCs can't run Mac OS X (legally, or efficiently).
14) Work vs. Home: I think this was the first add. Mac explains how he's into doing movies, music, podcasts (which were pioneered on a Mac). PC says he's into time sheets and spreadsheets and pie chartes. The idea would be that Mac comes with the software in iLife that allows you to immediatally start working on photos, music, video, and podcast projects. PCs, right out of the box, can't, though you can do basic stuff like spreadheets.
15) Viruses: In this add, PC has a virus. Macs don't get viruses. It's really that simple.
16) Restarting: In this add, PC freezes and has to restart. Statistically speaking, computers that run Windows freeze and have to restart much, much more often than Macs. Many Macs go through years of service without freezing. I've never heard of a PC that's never frozen. Have you?
17) iLife: PC is using an iPod, an apple product if I remember correctly. PC explains that he uses the iPod with iTunes. Mac explians that iMovie, iPhoto and iWeb (safari), bcause they work as well as iTunes.
18) Network: In this add (the last I swear), Mac and PC have set up a network. An asian woman comes along representing a digital camera. Mac starts speaking Japanese with the camera, causing PC to ask, "You speak her language?" Macs come ready to communicate with cameras. I've used dozens of digital cameras, printers, scanners and camcorders on my Mac, and I've never had to download a driver. You plug it in and it automaticaly works. When you plug a digital camera in, it automaticaly opens iPhoto and asks if you're ready to import the pictures. It's something.


So yeah, that's the list, and I've not seen one add that misleads or lies about anything.

The BMW analogy works in friendly territory, but outside it's a bit like telling people they'll go to hell if they don't believe.

They're different. Like Linux is different. For whatever reasons you may prefer one over the other.

Does it work?
Do you like it?

If yes, great. If not, keep looking. Thing religions are dumb.

For myself, as a fairly heavy Windows user, MacOS rocks. It is so fucking stable and predictable, like I'd expect from a good *nix, which is what's underneath.

You want annoying? Try to keep your senses and speed while running Windows inside of Mac OS. Different keys, on-screen buttons and things are reversed. (Trace that back to intentional Windows differences to help avoid the "Mac copy" arguments.) Even simple copy/paste. Cmd-c to copy in Mac, then flip to parallels and Ctrl-V to paste. Easy to screw up and wipe your clipboard. Sure I can bootcamp to a sweet, native, XP but that takes the good things away.

My dual-use experiment continues but I admit it isn't as smooth as I'd hoped. People, or at least this people, don't work well split between two universes.

Sorry I got it wrong that the macbookpro was the first, that still doesnt change the fact that integrated webcams were out before that in Windows laptops. Here are the facts:

Sony did it first several years before
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...199809/98-085/

If you don't believe me. Apple was the first to put it into a latch, but no, they were not the first to have integrated webcams in their systems. I also do not understand why people just post information that they make up or guess.

Just one quick one off the top of my head, Widgets. Yahoo, I believe did that first...or maybe it was an open source thing...I can't remember and don't want to look it up.

Oh ya? A quick google search of OS X virus came up with this. Granted, it's a Trojan, but my point is still there.

http://www.macrumors.com/2006/02/16/...w-os-x-trojan/

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Nearly every Mac owner I have ever talked to has been just like this. A little to pretentious for my tastes.

Also, I can't believe that people say Macs come ready to use out of the box. I had to get and install a ton of software and run many, many updates just get the laptop in working order. True you don't need drivers but there are definitely a ton of updates you have to deal with along with finding OS X Univeral Binary ready programs.

Well I just went through the adds, and I misunderstood them. Never did they say they were the first to have integrated webcams.
So Mac said they were the first to have Widgets and Yahoo?
It's never been confirmed by any news source or Apple. Notice how the site is MacRumors? Also, if it is true, it's a basic Trojan and it's not been reported to have infected anyone to Apple, ever. Semantically speaking, a trojan is not a virus.

Edit: So wait, there might be one trojan for Mac, but there are still tens of thousands of viruses, spyware, and trojans for Winows, and Vista isn't going to stop them (frankly, Vista is a glorified service pack, anyway). I'd say that the virus argument has to go to Mac. If you have a Mac, you don't have to worry about viruses.

and Yahoo? no, I said, Yahoo did that first. And yes I am fairly certain that Apple has stated they were the first to implement Widgets, I'm not going to bother looking it up, you can if you want.

My other points were valid enough that I don't feel I need to elaborate on them. I said in my original post that it wasnt a virus it was a trojan, but I just thought I'd post it. :)

Just so you know, I am not against Apple or Macs. I do wish Apple users would take the time to learn at least something about Windows before they start bashing it. I am not talking about you here, will. I am talking about those people that think that if they install Windows on their Mac they will instantly be loaded with viruses and spyware and have intermittent crashes. Why is there a Norton Antivirus program that most Mac people recommend to install and keep updated for OS X if there is no risk of a virus? I really do like my MacbookPro and I will say that Mac does do some things very well. I do not believe that they do anything "better" than a Windows machine though. They can definitely do movies and photobooks and such easier than in Windows and on par with Windows, but I dont think better. With Windows it just takes a little more know how.

And in ad 16, the PC freezes and has to restart several times. Well, I know many people who have Macs and they definitely do freeze, like mine does. So many people complain about kernel panics on their Macs and I am one of them. Even a bunch of cases straight out of the box. and the same laptop in bootcamp has never once froze on me...same computer, different OS, one OS freezes occasionally, the other never has. Kinda weird huh? I guess that ad is a little misleading.

Ad 18, I have never once had a digital camera, camcorder, or anything really for that matter that I have plugged into a USB port and had it not be automatically detected, unless it was like 8 years old (which I think OS X would have problems with also).

Ad 3, I have had to put my macbook pro under "surgery" to upgrade in order to get use out of some OS X programs. I had to add another stick of RAM. I've never had anything in Windows except games that require 2 GB of RAM to run well.

Those 3 ads just jumped out at me as being a little misleading as I skimmed your post.

P.S. I hope you don't take this arguement personally, I love to argue. :thumbsup:

Freedom comes with the responsibility of eternal vigilance. In order for Apple to stay ahead of viruses, they need to make changes that make it increasingly more difficult to infect. I don't think that OS X 10.0 would still be virus free today if it had not been changed, in other words. Mac Security does what Windows Security does, but are more succesful.
The question is which freezes a lot more often? The answer is a resounding "PC". Yes, some Macs freeze, though in my last 8 years of experience with 3 different Macs it's never happened. They are more stable, though, on average not freezing any where near as often as PCs.
Got Drivers?
Would you mind being mroe specific? How much RAM did your comp come with? How much did you really need? What programs needed more RAM?
You should see me in TFPolitics. I'm right there with ya.

Macs. PCs. They're just machines. They don't do anything without your help. Just pick one and run with it. If you don't like one, then switch. But don't think that what works so well for you means squat to someone else. Because it usually doesn't.

The Apple/PC debate is much like politics; people from each side defending and attacking without even allowing the idea that the other side may be correct to enter the argument. Also, full of propaganda and bullshit.


http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...s-perspective/

This thread deevolved into a Mac bashing thread early on. That's why I posted the adds and descriptions. This thread is here to address whether the commercials are misleading or make false claims. Instead of making general statements about the Mac vs. PC debate, we should concentrate on the commercials. If you want, I can find them on YouTube and imbed them, too.

You appear willing to go to much effort to prove the validity of the commercials. I certainly wouln't put bother imbedding the videos here.

The nature of advertising lends itself to be misleading, but not necessarily make false claims. Obviously, Macs are going to emphasize their strengths, and the commercials also tend to focus on perceived weaknesses of the PCs. If there were similar ads from a reversed perspective, highlighting all the weaknesses of Macs propaganda style, there would be equal debate. The problem is diehard Mac people and diehard PC people feel the need to blindly ignore the weaknesses of their camp while denying the benefit of the other.

In my experience, I've only seen a mac freeze twice (note that this happened on an eight year old mac 4 years ago); I've had PC's freeze countless times (even the newer ones). PC's are generic and can be modified into excellent gaming computers, and there are more games available for them. However, Mac's have the same capability, just less games available. Due to recent price drops, Mac's are not so much more expensive than PC's, and Apple's software parameters are becoming more flexible. If you understand code and the methods needed to properly maintain a PC, then it probably is a simple operating system; the same can be said of a Mac. Comparing the time needed to learn Mac's vs. the time needed to learn PC's, Mac's seem drastically simpler. Its clear that both sides have alot to offer. Yet when all is said and sampled, I still find Apple to be the better choice.

They are also definitely more innovative than their competitors.

If anyone has used Windows Vista then you can't possibly not laugh out loud at the latest commercial. We use Vista on a test PC at work and we go through the cancel/allow stuff everyday. So when I saw the commercial last night on TV I couldn't stop laughing. Easily the best Mac versus PC commercial that's been released, mainly because the security guy portrayed Vista PERFECTLY!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4FF_aT_mE8

Wow this thread is long with typical can to/can not argueing back and forth...The commericals are effective but in reality to compare Apple and PC it just can't be done, they aren't like items. A PC is basically any computer hardware that one would use at home, Apple is a computer hardware maker and software designer--unlike their competition they make everything in-house, Microsoft is a software company that makes software to be run on computer hardware made by Apple, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, and many other companies--they don't have design control over the hardware their customer uses, All the computer hardware makers that run windows on their computer only make the hardware and don't make software...So to sum it all up in a sense.

You can't compare a fully made (by one company) car to an engine made by an engine manufacturer. There is no validity in argueing the car is faster than the engine or better or anything.

as a proud Vista laptop owner, I laughed out loud at full volume when I watched that commercial........

this one is finally true :thumbsup:

The reasons Macs are "better" are obvious:

1) they control what hardware you get to put in your machine. Period.
2) they have much better R&D ... why? See #1. They don't have to deal with Uncle Joe's Garage Made sound card.

Most of the technology that Mac (and Windows and Linux) uses was originally developed by and for the U.S. Military. All OSes owe their lives to the Mother of all OSes: VMS. But enough with the history lesson. My point is there's never any reason to defend an Operating System or a brand. The thread "devolved" into Mac bashing because of the perception that the commercials are Windows/PC bashing. In the end, both OSes do what they are intended to do. And if you know what YOU'RE doing they do it well.

When my mother asked me what kind of computer to get so that she could check email and surf the web I responded: Mac. Why? Because I don't want her calling me every 10 minutes with questions.

What OS do I use at home for: serving iTunes on a touch screen in the living room? Windows XP.

What OS do I use at home for: recording high-end, multi-track audio and playing incredibly complex multi-sampled vsti instruments? Windows XP.

What OS do I use at home for: my 5-year-old daughter to play games? Windows XP.

What OS do I use for gaming? Windows XP.

I like "PCs" because I am very comfortable with them and know them inside and out. Do I have to reboot them because of instability? Hardly. The biggest problem that people have is trying to do too much with one computer. This is true in ALL OSes (except for server OSes and even then you can overdo it). Try to do too much with a poorly tuned Mac and you'll have the same problems as with a poorly tuned PC.

Macs ARE elegant. Macs ARE stable. Apple DOES have some incredible R&D. If they come up with a better workflow for something, GREAT! Windows and *nix should be able to benefit from that R&D in my opinion. It's the way the world works. Ford introduced airbags in 1971 ... imagine if they were the only people allowed to use airbags because other car manufacturers weren't allowed to "copy" that invention. Same with anti-lock brakes.

I'm non-partisan when it comes to OSes.

Ahh, VMS.. :-)

And van, I couldn't agree more. My post above details why I use a PC for some things and why an Apple would be better for others. That, however, is precisely why I find the Apple vs PC commercials insulting. It's praying on the idea that that one is actually inferior, rather than designed for a certain purpose.

Unix (and consequently MacOS) is designed specifically to be a multi-user system and acts as such. Windows was never designed as a server OS (don't get me started on NT) and therefore caters much more to a single user.

And the Vista UAC commercial? Garbage. There's tons of settings to change this, without ugly registry hacks or other manipulations. If you're consistently seeing the warning with a specific program, just mark the program to run as Admin!

I think the one think people forget is that the commercial is actually an Apple commercial. It is supposed to be deceptively clever or just deceptive. Apple is trying to sell its products and convert people to Windows. Simple put, there are more people using Windows based computers than Macs, and the number is substantial. Apple, with the iPod, has already eaten into the consciousness of most people, so why not try to get those same people to buy more Apple products. One cannot expect an Apple commercial to, in anyway, be fair to Windows. That's like Al Gore endorsing George Bush and his policies.

I can't find that analogy...but whenever I see a BMW in traffic, they'r ass holes, weaving and not using turn signals...cutting people off etc. like the sticker price is their 'right of way' they might be cool cars but I'm put off of them by their owners.

anyway...the PC/Mac commercials just give me a sour impression...Mac kid being a pompus ass. I'm an artist and I like my PC just fine...alotta neat shareware for PC's to do art stuff on. when I was getting into 3D game art, ALL pro apps I could see ran on WinNT or SGI comps. then some were ported to other windows virsions...but I never heard of Maya or Softimage,or 3D Studiomax etc. running on a Mac. just 2D graphics apps. which also run just fine (for me) on a PC. I'm still on 'ol WinNT here...geez I need a new comp ! :lol:

I also love Doom, Quake and all Id Games for that matter. these games have a huge community for custom add ons which I never saw for Macs when I was big into Q3A. not to mention the remapping of Quake 1 with modern graphics (bump etc.) I've got no intrest in switching to another FPS games.

I'm curious about Macs...but only because they don't get hit as much on the virus, spywhere, homepage hacking etc. that's about it.

oh, and about the iPod and pod "cast" thing...seems to me I've got a pod 'cast' I downloaded to my NT rig...it's just an audio file...and not a (broad) cast of any kind...for a while I thought people were pulling tunes out of the air like the 'pod was wireless like a cell phone...not so I guess. it's just like a walkman but you can't even share pot to pod...how sucky is that !? the whole "podcast" term is a marketing word and really untrue.

it's more importiant to me that I could share music on the spot than carry a whole Tower Records in my back pockett.

Doom 3 and Quake 4 work fine on Mac, just fyi. Many custom add ons are Mac only, but you might have not been exposed to them being that they are not often spoke of outside of Mac circles.

Also, I think Maya is one of the best modeling, animation, effects and rendering programs on the market.

that sucks...wonder why they don't post them on Doom3 world or...?
oh well...either way the adds strike me as a jab and leave me sour.

in the end I also think its whatever your used to using that's easiest or 'best'

found the mention of BMW and Porsche...heh, well... there's a HUGE world of mods for BMW and Porsche...I love my Porsche :)

I think we can all agree, be us Mac addicts or PC fiends, that Porsches are awesome.

I hope so B^)

What they dont seem to mention is the price diffrence. Nothin like forking out all that extra money for the nice fancy mac that... dosnt do anything the pc cant do. Or the fact that to upgrade a mac you have to buy your overpriced upgrades from mac alone. no compeition to lower the prices for hardware like on the pc. Owning a mac lost its advantages when windows became stable.

Personaly i think apple should just give up and put a end to its computer line and stop convincing people to spend all that money on them. And they should focus on the other electronics they make. Ipod for instance.

It's not 2001 anymore.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...26_dt0600.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...15_lt1500.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...24_lt2800.html
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...26_dt2000.html

My main problem with these commercials is the unadulterated smugness. Negative advertising has always bothered me and these commercials just tweak my nipples with their holier-than-thou attitude and implication that your choice of operating system reflects your intelligence. Apple should be able to show thier strengths without having to show the competitions weaknesses, especially when they make up those weaknesses or blow them out of proportion. Their entire campaign, from the switch commercials on, seems to be trying to shame Windows users into believing that they are morons for using Windows and to choose the "right" OS. I avoid OS holy wars whenever I can because I honestly don't care, I use windows because I have never had any of the evil problems that Apple says I have and I enjoy building my own computers. I just don't like commercials that actively insult me.

amen to that.

The commercials are great in the fact that they do there job. Like them or not, at least you remember them.

As far as the PC vs Mac thing, I have no idea why people take it so seriously. I use both Macs and Windows for various things and like them equally. My preference tends to go towards Mac mainly because IMHO they run high end audio programs better (Granted windows can run these programs as well, but less tweaking is needed on Mac). For everyday use I tend to use windows mainly because it seems the internet runs a tad bit faster and the machine is in my bedroom.

Both OSes have uses, and whenever a Windows person bashes Mac I ask them if they have tried OS X at all. More often than not, most negitive feelings towards mac came from childhood experiences or using and outdated OS. All I ask before someone makes and opinion one way or the other is to try both.

I'm offended that you believe that the companies in the commerical have some preconceived notion about my intelligence level that they exploiting in their commercials. In a perfect world you'd be able to show strengths without showing weakness' and vice-versa but we don't live in a perfect world, we live in the real world where the lack of weakness is inheritantly a strength. With that companies aren't gonna advertise things they share in common with competitors, as a selling point (car makers aren't gonna advertise that their cars have 4 wheels or a steering wheel).

I find it odd that you would be offended that I think a company thinks people are stupid, unless you are secretly Steve Jobs. You aren't are you? well... are you?

Actually you rarely see negative advertising from car companies. They usually show how pretty thier car is, how well built, how much room, how fast, etc. without really resorting to "if you own a dodge you really should sell it and buy a pontiac because those things are death traps, you will die if you drive one."

He can't be Steve Jobs....I'm Steve Jobs!!

I don't see any threads about how Pepsi commercials assert that Coke drinkers are bland or stupid (we're not, we're distinguished). This is about Mac hatred. It's been obvious from the get go.

Maybe people are gonna hate me for bringing back a discussion that's months old, but I dislike the ads for adding to that attitude a lot of (but not all) Mac owners have. "My computer just works," or similar stuff said in a smug voice, implying that my Windows machine doesn't work.
My windows PC is 6 years old and still works, runs HL2, Counter Strike: Source, and other demanding applications. Yes, I have reinstalled the OS once or twice, but that was because of a hard drive failure

My wife's family is pro-mac, and apple. They say that their computers "just work", as well, but the only one that works here is an ibook G4.
Other than that one, they have 2 PowerBook G4s, one of them overheats like crazy, the other one's battery actually swelled up to the point that the space bar wasn't working and there was a big swollen area visible on the bottom of it.
Mac computers have their problems, too. I wouldn't dislike the "mac crowd" if they didn't have that attitude that goes with it. Macs are just another PC, with a different OS and a focus on design, and I respect that (though it's not for me). But it's the smugness of their customer base that thoroughly annoys me.

I've never seen a Mac crash. I've heard Windows people say that they've seen it, but I use 3 different Macs a day, over the course of maybe 10-12 hours a day and I've never seen it. I've had my eMac for 4 years. Not once has it crashed or frozen. One time I had to force quit a third party application, but that's it. I've never seen a Mac overheat. I've never seen a Mac even wear out after many years of use.

I've been using Macs since the late 80s. I've had 5 Macs, personally. I'd say I've had as much experience using them as anyone, ever.

My MacBook Pro crashes occasionally. I get kernel panics if I am doing too many things at once (like running Quicktime and Safari at the same time :( ). I think it has a lot to do with Safari not being that great of a browser. My Mac also has heat problems but that is a well known problem with the first generation Macbook Pros. I still like my Mac but it's far from the perfect machine that it is portrayed to be.

I even went to a Mac store and got Safari to crash by opening like 5 browser tabs. I did it in front of a salesperson and they couldn't explain to my why it just didn't work. The iPhone also has crash problems when running Safari.

I wish there was a better browser for the Mac, I think most troubles while browsing come from that. Firefox and Opera are far too clunky and slow on the Mac to use, in my opinion. The funny thing is, I have over 10 tabs open right now and I am listening to iTunes and have a word processor open right now in the 6 year old PC I am using and there aren't any problems whatsoever. This would cause massive kernal panics on my laptop.

Are there any other browsers for Mac that I should look into that aren't Firefox or Opera? (sorry if this is too much of a threadjack.) Or I might have to try reinstalling OSX like was suggested to me on the official Apple troubleshooting forums. That's funny, I thought with Macs we weren't supposed to have to reinstall the OS like with one of those laughable PC's.

Safari 3 full version comes out soon. That might be your best bet, but your problem could be with hardware. I'd take it to a Mac specializing store instead of an Apple store. MacPros is the best.

thanks!

Have you tried Camino? I haven't (I'm a Firefox guy), but...
Some people say it's smoother than Firefox on Mac.