iPhone and appleTV
 

http://images.apple.com/iphone/image...ro20070109.jpg

www.apple.com

So here it is, the long awaited iPhone from the trendiest electronics company in the world, Apple.
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And as if that wasn't enough, Apple released the new appleTV, the little box that lets you do iTunes from your TV and stereo system.

I would very much like to see one in person. Too bad it's 6mo out.

It'll be interesting to see if Apple can simplify the cell plans. What's standard? What's optional? A mish-mash of "extras" could easily ruin it.

The iPhone looks pretty sweet. The only thing in my way is the $500 price tag. Guess I better start saving now...

I would have hoped that Apple would have made deals with Cingular, Verizon and Sprint/Nextel, but I guess I'll be switching from Verizon to Cingular for this one. Sh*t.

I've just got to have one of those!!!! (iPhone, I mean)

i thought Apple wouldn't be able to use the "iPhone" name as it was owned by an VOIP company.

I'll be waiting a couple of years until the major content producers finally come around to multi-level distribution before I buy such a device.

I just don't think the top quality content is as free and fully available yet to be worth the high cost. Some day.

I wish they would sell one without the phone. Just WiFi, BlueTooth, camera, widescreen iPod, etc... everything except for the phone.

Adding in a GPS would be a great add-on.

Amen. A lot of us are in binding contracts with service providers already! I would kill to have a handheld that sleek and small and FUNCTIONABLE! Now if they can just get WoW on one of those.....

That phone looks sweet! I have been drooling over it all day.

Sadly they say it will not be available in Asia until 2008. I guess I will just have to buy one and then get it unlocked. :)

As for the price, what does it cost for a phone, a pda and an ipod separately?


Not sure about the iTV thing. I am still figuring out exactly what sort of home entertainment system I am going to buy when I finally move in July.

When I first saw the phone I was creaming. Then I really took a look. There will be no 3g or CDMA support. That means it's going to bomb in Europe without 3g. I'm on a CDMA network and will not switch to crap ass Cingular just for this phone. I'm also curious about the glass on the phone. Is it glass or is it the same poly they use on the new generation of iPod Nano's??

As far as the iTV, I have no real comment as I know I'd never use anything like that.

Jobs mentioned that 3G is in the works.

I didn't watch the keynote so I guess that the person I talked to failed to mention that. Did he mention anything about CDMA??

The iTV box really could use some sort of DVR function (unless I've totally missed something there as well)

I found this to be pretty interesting.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/3...7fa7571e_o.jpg

I haven't seen a thing about CDMA. It looks like it will be GSM only for now.

I predict that if it is successful, it will get a CDMA version within a year or so just like Palm did with the Treo.

Don't give into the hype.... Apple thrives on over hyping things and then selling a sub par product. There are much better much more fully featured mp3 players than the ipod.

80% of the mp3 market is hype? The fact of the matter is that features are not the only benchmark by which to gauge a product, and Apple has proven that in the iPod. Also, so far as features are concerned, it seems the iPhone has litterally descimated the market as far as features on a phone. It's quite simply better than everything else.

It also costs way to much and has a limited market making its potential for large amounts of sales poor. Look at the ps3 and how it has bombed. Don't forget that since it is cingular only many people won't want or won't have a chance to buy it.

You should take a gander at the keynote speech, as it addresses your points.

Here's a decent look at the phone and features

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk

Cisco filed suit last night because of the name

The gadget-loving geek in me is having an orgasm right now! :love:

Am I the only one that thinks it's not that expensive? I'd definitely think about getting one after they work out all the kinks (3G/CDMA/HSDPA).

So now I know what I want for xmas this year. :D

Healer, I totally agree. When you consider what you're getting, you are actually getting a decent price. Also, I'll bet the price drops off before Christmas 2007 (Cingular will be pushing for that).

I don't know.

I have a Treo700W and it already does all those things. E-mail-3 accounts, check. Outlook contact manager, check. One touch dialing, check. Entire device accessible through voice commands, check for the Treo, ???on iphone. MP3 player, check. Media Player, check. Camera, check. Google maps-check. EDGE network, fast, stable. Great phone features(could be better though).

I certainly understand that my phone is part of the MS evil empire but hey, it works for me. My old Treo600 broke after 2 years, and the 700P wasn't out yet so I ended up with the 700W.

The bottom line is that it is hard to be all things to all people in a single device. I think the reason that the iPod has become ubiquitous is that they have refined the music player user interface to a very fine level. But it really only performs one function. Trying to make a fantastic user experience for a device that performs so many different functions is difficult at best and pretty close to impossible. Couple that with the fact that it is (at least initially) tied to a single carrier and I think that it will not be the hit that everyone thinks it will be.

That being said....It sure is cool. As a geek you have to be impressed.

Ah, but the Treo doesn't have a full OS, widescreen video playback, a touch sreen (espically a touch screen like the iPhone), that awesome little sensor that turns off the touch screen when your head is near the phone, it doesn't come with it's own wireless headset, and it doesn't look as cool. Does the Treo have a digital camera? Oh, and does the Trio let you choose which voice mail you want to listen to? Also, I don'[t think the Trio is as thin as the iPhone.

Apple is being so stupid by making an exclusive contract with Cingular. What a boneheaded move. It's a neat gadget, but why wouldn't Apple make it more available than just one-and not the most popular-wireless carrier?

I was very disappointed to hear that people can't code widgets etc. for the iPhone as well. After all the development of widgets for OSX, it would be a really neat thing to be able to do on a mobile device like this. I think the design is really beautiful and the device has tons of potential. I think, however, I'll be waiting for the second generation for them to make it more available and work the kinks out.

That all being said, Apple as a company really makes me want to puke. They've got such an ego about how incredible they are, and it's really getting old. No one can contest the popularity or success of the iPod (I certainly love mine) or the benefits of their OS, but the recent PC v. Mac commercials and just going ahead and announcing the device without getting things squared away with Cisco really reiterates a corporate philosophy that makes me gag and wish they weren't putting out products that I want. MS is the devil, but they don't make any bones about being the devil. Mac's hardly got clean hands, but they want you to believe they're a hip, progressive company working hard against the man. Leaves a foul taste in my mouth.

I was under the impression that the iPhone or whatever it will be named will have the capability of widgets?

I was just thinking that it wasn't that long ago that the topic of discussion for Apple was, "how long will it be until Apple goes under?"

There was a cover story in Wired that listed a number of things Apple needed to do to survive.

In fact, I think Apple borrowed a big whack of cash from Microsoft to stay afloat.

It seems like it was just yesterday. I don't care how they market themselves as long as their products continue to be solid.

I dont care how hip (and I am against being hip) Apple is, I have to get that phone when it comes out. I estimate my current phone will be on its very last legs at that moment.

Is that an official endoresment from TFP? :thumbsup:

(I've heard a rumor that Steve Jobs is a member....so that might mean a lot to someone)

It wont get my full endorsement until I can upload MP3s to it by dragging and dropping in Windows Explorer. If I have to go through iTunes, then I'll only be mildly amused.

Interesting news about Cingular. Since AT&T bought out Cingular a couple months ago they are now planning to phase out the brand and bringing its service under its own mantle:

So the little orange guy is going to bite the dust?

Thats confusing. I had an AT&T cell phone, but I thought Cingular bought their cell division out, so my phone then became Cingular. Now this? Oi. In any case, I'm READY for this phone.

Imagine that AT&T is a country made up of several states. The federal government has certian amount of control over each state, though the state retains some power. Most of the states in AT&T are controled mostly by federal power.

Cingular was originally a state shared by the countries SBC and BellSouth. Cingular was so powerful that it was able to conquor AT&T's wireless state (at the cost of $41b). AT&T itself was powerful enough to take SBC and BellSouth, thus taking control of Cingular. Cingular, being strong and popular, was able to remain relatively independant for a time, as it already had loyalty and a good reputation (and a little orange logo that was nationally recognizable).

Now, however, AT&T has enough power to retake Cingular totally. Cingular will become "the New AT&T", and the little orange man will cease to be.

I've had a Palm Pilot, Treo300, Treo600, and now Treo700w. The Palm OS is great and there are lot's of apps for it. But it was still limited. I am not convinced that the Apple OS will be that big of a deal. It will undoubtedly have bugs. So the screen turns off when it is near your face- how does it do that, heat sensors?, movement?, I can see lots of issues here. I set the touchscreen of my Treo turn off while a call is underway. If I need to access the calendar during a call, a single touchstroke disables it. I have a wireless Bluetooth headset. No big deal, spend as much or as little as you want on one. Yes, it has a camera that I love. (See Charlatan's pics from his Treo in 'The world through my phone' thread.) The 'listen to a specific voice mail' feature is really cool. I could go for that. Not worth learning a whole new device for though. Form factor, gotta admit the iphone is cool. The screen seems kind of vulnerable, and if you put it in a case it kind of defeats the slimness factor. The last feature that I didn't hear mentioned is one of my favorites- the ability to use the Treo as modem. It works great and can really save the day when you need to use your laptop to get online away from the office.

I thought those commercials were one of the sharpest, wittiest examples of advertising I've seen in a long time! But I own three iPods, an iMac and a Powerbook so maybe I'm a bit biased.

Taken in a total vacuum, I'd agree with you. Taken 10 years ago, I'd also agree with you. Taken in today's environment, they're simply false advertising.

I saw one two nights ago where they're strapping a webcam onto the PC's head and Mac smugly points out that Mac laptops and iMacs have webcams built into them and PC sulks off, as if this is the most unbelievably amazing thing anyone has ever heard of. That's simply not true, as I'm sitting in front of a PC laptop with a webcam built in. Sony makes them. Toshiba makes them. Dell makes them. It's not a big deal. The plug and play commercial is the same way. That kind of nonsense just doesn't happen on computers anymore.

As far as I can tell "PC guy" represents a Windows 95 computer running a 286 with 128 megs of RAM. It's not that it's not a "fair" representation, because why be fair to your competitor? It's that it's a blatantly untrue representation. Mac DOES do some things better than MS or PCs in general. The stupid shit they throw out in their advertisements are not those things. Presenting dated stereotypes as fact with a smug smirk does not a sharp commercial make.

Wasn't Apple the first to have an integrated video camera?
Well, let's break this down. I'll choose a few commercials:
1) Mac DOES allow plug and play with most digital cameras, printers, camcorders, mp3 players. No drivers required.
2) Mac DOES come with programs that are not 60 day trials or anything like that. It's all there, and it's all yours.
3) My Mac hasn't frozen in 4 years. My PC at work freezes at least 4-5 times a week (and I use it less).
4) There are no virusus that can effect OS X. There are plenty for Windows, be it 95, 98, XP, etc.
5) The software that comes with a Mac, be it iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes, etc. all make it easy right out of the box.

1) so do PCs.. BOTH Mac and PCs use drivers though, thats just simple computer basics.
2) So do PCs. The difference is Macs are sold by Apple. PCs are sold by thousands of different distributors. Results may vary if you're a cheapass. You can get what you need with a PC, though. Macs, however, have a far more limited suit of available applications.
3) Macs are seen as stable because of point #2. When you put a PC together the way Macs are, using hardware linked by specific compatibility, its just as stable.
4) False. There are *fewer* - far fewer, in fact. For the simple fact that there are far fewer Macs. They are not wide spread in any way because there aren't enough Macs to reliably spread a virus.
5) Windows has equivalents in XP, even more so in Vista.



6) Apple sells rigid style, not power.

I'm an apple fanboy, but to say there are no virii for OS-X is funny. There aren't as many like Halx said but they do exist. I do like the Mac and OS better but I think that both Macs and PC's have their own place in the world.

The idea is that Mac comes with almost all drivers already. Windows does not.
Well if you spend a lot on PC, you might as well get a Mac. The bottom line is that Mac comes ready with full versions of all the software on the computer. Everything is there, no trials.
When you do that, maybe, but the fact is that when you design a product and are alowed to create hardware and software you're going to be more stable. I see proof of that every day at home and work.
Not fewer, none. There exists no virus that can do anything to OS X. Apple even issued a challenge and a reward for anyone who could write a virus. So far no one has succeded. On any given daty, Mac controls 3-4% of the market. That's more than BMW shares of the US auto market.
Vista is a carbon copy of OSX.


Swaitchback was the only rumored virus for Mac OSX and it turned out to be an bust. One day there might be a virus that infects a Mac, but it hasn't happened in like 12 years.

Meinwhile, Windows gets a dozen new viruses a week.

Ok while there may not technically be a virus able to propagate on OS-X, we're starting to see the beginning of the cycle. A trojan horse has been found and although it's poorly written and doesn't propagate outside of your network, it's a start.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/...16234239.shtml


back to the topic, I'm curious to see what is going to happen with the iwhatever now that Cingular has been bought out by AT&T. IMO, I don't think it's going to have the buying power it would have if Cingular stayed Cingular. :shrug: I love the look of the phone but for some reason I'm becoming less enamored with it every day.

:shrug:

Mac users are dooming themselves to a massive viral outbreak. The whole attitude that we can't get viruses and thus don't need to worry will be their down fall when the first good mac trojan or mac worm is released.

Also willravel you state that mac comes with all this software and PC's don't but you seem to forget that microsoft is prohibited by the DOJ to put all the software on there. If Mac were to have the microsofts market share the whole Mac business model would be considered monopolistic and they would be shut down.

The PC instabilities and viruses by in large are due to 3rd party drivers. Mac doesn't have this problem because they don't have 3rd party hardware. Personally i'd rather be able to customize my own computer and upgrade it when necessary. Hell just yesterday I upgraded a 5 year old machine of mine to a machine that is better than mid range macs for under $300 (new MB, proc, ram, video card), buying it from Apple would have cost me a hell of a lot more.

Just because we have't gotten a virus doesn't mean we are not vigilant in protecting our systems. Apple has a crack team of programmers that's only job is staying succesful against those who would create virisus and worms and trojans. We get security updates just like you do, the marked difference is our security is 100% preventative.
Microsoft didn't do their homework on monopoly law in the US. It's microsoft's fault that they are prohibited by the DOJ, and the customer has to pay the price. Mac has learned a lot about the legality of being an electronic company. Mac is holding 80+% of the market of mp3 players and is holding. I don't see Zune or iRiver getting ready to sue Apple for having a monopoly.
Not everyone wants to build his or her own computer, and not everyone wants to use 3rd party drivers. While I do use Firefox (which is quite stable), I could just as easily use Safari without losing anything.

And this is a mistake. Ask any security expert and they all say that good security must involve overlapping layers.

Having a single layer is very dangerous. Macs need to add 2 more layers to avoid viruses. The first is detection and correction and the second is user education. I fear the second one is where Mac (and PC) users need the most work. Many people who use a Mac truly believe that their computers are immune to viruses and the mac salesman have furthered this by saying it when selling the computers to users. What happens when the first good mac trojan gets spammed out to mac users and people blindly execute the code?

While I can agree with almost everything Willravel posts in this forum I must point out how ironic it is that Ipods are simply the better mp3 player because they dominate "80% of the market" but Microsoft's share of the operating system market is nothing more than meaningless specs.

It all boils down to personal preference.
You say this as if everyone at Microsoft twiddles their thumbs until the service calls come in - having an operating system that isn't popular enough to have have many viruses written for it isn't revolutionary, especially when most viruses are caught through misuse or negligence. When Apple releases a Mac that is impervious to attacks when I go looking for viruses or at the very least a mac that can withstand a latte being spilled into it then I'll be more than willing enough to deem them better than PCs.

It amazes me that people can still have this argument.

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While the iPhones tech goodies certainly seem worth of a fondle, I can't imagine how people could prefer it or any other PDA to a camera equipped cellphone and laptop. The iPhone has the obvious size advantage but when you factor in the fact that low-voltage processors are readily available, larger capacity batteries are being developed and ultra-portable laptops are only getting smaller you'll start to see that the iPhones advantages really aren't that significant.

I'm curious to see when Apple Inc. will release the second generation. Apple is infamous for releasing something groundbreaking, the releasing a better version soon (sometimes less than a year) after. It's clear that the iPhone will be very, very cool very, very soon. When do you think that the next generation will be released? I'm putting my money on Q1 2008, but it could be sooner.

we had this apple vs. pc debate in another thread:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=112849

Apple was not the first to make a webcam integrated. I also loath the apple vs. mac commercials. They aren't clever, they aren't funny, they are nowhere near accurate and they just plain suck. The latest one is even more ridiculous. The line where he says "You are coming to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?" is just blatant bashing of Microsoft. The smugness and ignorance that I get from a lot of Apple users when talking about PC's is just astounding. If you want to see counters to these commercials, look at:

http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...s-perspective/

That being said, I have an 80 gig iPod, a MacbookPro, and will definitely get an iPhone. Also to be said, I love my PC also. They are both great for certain things. I would never get a desktop mac though because I love building my own PC and macs have pretty much zero customization possibilities.

What a great big thread jack. Would you care to talk about anything else? Maybe we can discuss the maltreatment of dolphins by the Japanese or if the Middle East has a full out war? Or maybe you can stick to the subject at hand. I could easily jump into every Windows or PC related thread and shoot off Mac selling points or PC weaknesses, but I don't because I have self control. I would ask that you show that same self control.

This thread is specifically about two products: the iPhone and the appleTV. This is not a Mac vs. PC thread. This is not about Mac commercials, Mac OSX, Windows, PCs or the ability to build a computer. I'm getting really sick of the BS thread jacks and all out wars over something as trivial as what operating system you prefer.

The first 23 posts of this thread managed to stay on subject. After that it was hit and miss. Now, it's degraded into meaningless tripe.

You couldn't possibly be serious Will - you say that as if you don't troll the tech section for any topic in which you could insert your completely biased and preference based thoughts on Macs are infinitely better than anything and everything.

One would assume that as you are obviously the common factor in these annoying discussions that you'd be compelled to assume some personal responsibility for the role that you apparently play in causing and/or facilitating them - but no, it's everyone else's fault.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with you, I'm sure you believe as well as I do that this forum can do better than this - I simply suggest you get the ball rolling with a little self-analysis.

Ad Hominem argument, and you're thread jacking. I do participate in the Apple vs. PC thing, but only in the appropriate threads. I don't just jump into any old thread and start up.

Can we please go back to talking about the iPhone or the appleTV?

just to clarify, I only jumped in here after the thread had been on and on about the pc v. mac debate. I'm not here to "jump into every Windows or PC related thread and shoot off Mac selling points or PC weaknesses". I simply came in after the thread had degraded to put in my $0.02.

Also, I didnt just jump into an old thread for the purpose of threadjacking, I just looked at the last post before you ressurected the thread and it wasn't that old, and to be honest I didn't look at any other post date except your previous comment, hence the reason I didn't realize you resurrected it. My apologies.

Also, I did mention that I will be buying an iPhone so as to keep it on topic. :p I will wait for the second gen iPhone to come out though because I have learned not to buy anything from Apple that is a first revolution model.

As to your previous comment about apple releasing a great, "groundbreaking" version, I think that will probably be out within 6 months. I also think that this style of completely revamping a product within 6 months of its release (ala Macbook/Pro) kind of shafts Apple's more hardcore fans. I say that because from my experience, the hardcore Apple fans are usually the ones to run out and buy the new product right away only for it to be obsolete rather quickly with nothing they can really do to upgrade it short of buying a new one. They seem to be using their major fanbase as a means to test out a product that might not be ready for release to the general public since it will take some time for the general public to accept this new product. The perfect example was the Rev. 1 MacbookPros. They had so many problems with those that it seemed as if it was a beta test for their final release. This will be even worse with the iPhone. There will be nothing that person can do who jumps on the bandwagon right away and grabs one later to realize that the next iPhone will be here in a few months and it has GPS, 3G, CDMA, HSDPA, will come with sizes up to 30GB, a 4 Megapixel camera, a video camera, and it even wipes your ass for you. I know several people that feel slapped in the face by Apple for supporting them early on in a new product only to be slapped in the face in a few months time with something "groundbreaking" for the masses.

I just find it a little disconcerting.