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Old 05-22-2006, 09:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
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Location: toronto
Random Crashing

A few weeks ago my computer started crashing at seemingly random times. It was getting to be time to start Windows XP afresh after a year of gathering gunk, so I figured I'd wipe and re-install the OS. To my horror, the computer crashed during the OS re-installation. I updated the BIOS and left the computer in BIOS configuration to see what temperature it was running at. It crashed even while just sitting idle in the BIOS config.

Before I continue my story, here's my specs:

AMD Athlon 2600+
512 MB RAM (previously 1GB)
Asus A7V8X Motherboard
ATI Radeon 9200 Video Card
300W Power Supply (this is about 5 years old now, where the rest of the system was upgraded in Jan. 2005)

I suspected it might be faulty memory, so I removed the modules one at a time. I was happy to discover that it wouldn't even boot with one of them, so I thought, problem solved...I kept the supposedly working one in and it booted fine. I re-installed the OS and it didn't crash anymore until this morning.

Why is this happening? I suspect 300W isn't enough these days with the amount of USB stuff I run, but could the crashing have something to the old power supply?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Location: Seattle, WA
Personal experience

I've got a 3200+
with 1.5 GB DDR
in the same motherboard
and an x800 XL video card.

It crashed intermittently with a 420W supply. I'm not certain it was the supply, but I tested the RAM and it checked out just fine. I got a new 520W OCZ Powerstream and I haven't had a problem since.

BSOD on OS installation tells me RAM, but it could just as easily be power supply. You could do what a user suggested in my thread -- find a store that refunds hardware in <30 days, get a nice power supply.. and try it out. If it works, keep it, if not.. return it.

It's even more likely to be PSU if by "all the USB stuff I run" you mean more than 4 devices. That's really pushing 300.

Alternatively, get MB Monitor or the ASUS utility that comes with the motherboard and check your voltages. Although software voltages are unreliable, I noticed my CPU voltage dropping 20-30% lower than spec, so I knew to get the supply. Check the CD that came with our board, it's got all sorts of goodies. I believe it's just called "ASUS UtilitY"
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Old 05-22-2006, 05:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
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Location: toronto
Thanks JinnKai. I shall get those monitors and check them out and see if that helps. The monitoring of the voltage would be a new skill for me but I look forward to it.

I'd love to hear some other opinions if possible. The only recent addition I can think of that might be taxing my power supply is the USB connector for my Dell 1905FP monitor. Even that's been in for a while. I got the monitor about 3 months ago and the crashing only started about 1 month ago.

Is it possible for a power supply to deteriorate over time and produce these results?
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Old 05-22-2006, 06:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Location: Connecticut
Based on what you say, I vote power supply. Five years of a spinning fan, and the accompanying dust, are immediately suspect. The wattage isn't the first red flag -- the age of the part is, in this case. However, I wouldn't go lower than a 450 wattage PS to replace. Go higher is possible.


Also -- reinstall the OS with the fewest number of peripherals as possible, and then add them one by one after the install of the OS.
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Old 05-23-2006, 07:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Location: toronto
Alright. Today I went out and bought an Antec 380W Neo HE Power Supply. Before I installed it I checked my voltage levels in the BIOS monitor. Based on what I've been reading, the reported dips in the 12V stream down to as low as 10.8 looked fishy to me. I guess that would explain the behaviour, no?

Unfortunately my new power supply didn't work as that series apparently doesn't work its additional 12V line isn't plugged in, and my motherboard has no room for it (the 20 pin connector is enough). I checked a forum where I found that Antec has responded to numerous tech calls with this diagnosis.

So when I get the chance I'll exchange it for something without that issue. In the meantime I opened my old PSU and blew about three tons of dust out of it. Right now, it's running as follows:

+3.3 = 3.25

+5.00 = fluctuating between 4.93 and 4.96

+12.00 (which is the processor right? and hence where a hard lock might occur if too low?) = 13.01

How do these seem?
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Old 05-24-2006, 06:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Location: Seattle, WA
Make sure you do some research on any new PSU you buy; wattage means almost nothing these days.

A forum I use that has a lot of people who take power supplies very very seriously.

http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=93

"Watts don't mean jack"
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=779582

On the voltage you're seeing now, 10.8 is HORRIBLE, but the other numbers seem alright. My system is pretty much always stable within +/- 5%. So...

3.135 to 3.465 on the 3.3V,
4.75 to 5.25 on the 5V,
and 11.4 to 12.6 on the 12V.

Lots of draw on the 12V but you look fine otherwise..
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Location: Central Coast CA
10.8 volts seems bad, but the 12 volt is only used for motors, fans, hard drives and cdrom drives, not the CPU, not anything important.

I have an extremely similar set up on my media server, same MB, same GPU, slightly more ram. The only difference is I have 12 hard drives in it and no optical. Currently it has a 420 watt PSU in it and it runs fine. The problem may be your power supply, but it’s not due to it being under powered. On my board, i have a problem with the last slot for memory, it would halt at random intervals when the board got to hot, after I stopped using the last slot for memory all the problems cleared up.

And just for reference, each USB device can draw a maximum of 500ma but most only draw 100ma, USB is not your power problem.
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
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Location: toronto
Got a new Antec today that worked (SmartPower 400). The 12V range looks much more promising and using Motherboard Monitor...everything seems more stable.

I shall report on my progress.
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: BFE, Kentucky
garantee it was the PS
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Old 06-05-2006, 05:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
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Location: toronto
Thanks steveincolumbus. It's only been a couple of weeks but so far everything seems to be running smoothly. Now that this ordeal is over (fingers crossed) I'm pretty glad I've learned something. Now I can add "check power supply stability" to my bag of trouble-shooting tricks.
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