Improving the forums
 

I've been giving this a lot of thought in recent weeks in light of some of the discussions we've been having and some of the changes that have already been made. How do we make the community more welcoming and less stratified?

I think removing the join dates was a great start, but I think there could be a few tweaks to that as well.

I've been toying with a few ideas and I'd like to see how well they go over here for possible implementation.

• Get rid of signatures. We've had a few issues with signatures in the past and removing them altogether would alleviate the issues of having to wonder if someone is being deliberately offensive in them. Think of all the person-hours spent trying to determine if perceived offenses are real or perceived. Getting rid of signatures prevents anyone from distinguishing themselves in any hoity-toity fashion.

• Remove custom titles and go back to default custom titles. If you think about it, this is just another way for members to create social groups that could exclude other members and make them feel bad. Everyone should have the same user title, though, because giving various user titles is just another way for people to feel left out. Something like "member" would work great. Plus, it lets all the guests know what they're missing out on.

• 10 post minimum before posting. It seems a lot of newbies are coming in and not following proper posting protocol and it's making it impossible for anyone to respond appropriately when they don't create the proper content first. If we institute a 10 post minimum requirement for all new members before they're allowed to post anything, we will do away with a lot of the newbies posting questions the veteran members are unable to answer because they're not formatted correctly.

Granted, these won't solve all our problems right away, but I think they will set us on the right track to helping get TFP right where we want it.

I hope I posted this in the right place. I did a search and I hope I'm not creating a thread that's already been discussed a hundred times already.

Hmm,

I feel like those changes would remove much of the individuality on this forum. I like my signature and I think it expresses very succinctly my outlook on life. I don't think it is confrontational or offensive and I would miss it should it dissappear.

I never felt 'left out' before I was a long time member or had a custom user title. It did encourage participation, but since it is board-wide after a member becomes active it is not clickish or exclusive. The user title is a fantastic reference when someone posts something beyond belief...if they have been around a while I know they are probably joking. If they only have a couple posts I am less inclined to join the discussion as they are likely trolling. Likewise when someone new posts something that isn't quite inline with the TFP culture as I understand it, I will give them the benefit of the doubt as they are not yet fully acquainted with the forum.

I didn't even notice the join dates were gone, though they seemed more like an indication of stability than status (how many old members have been booted/left TFP?).

What do you mean by a 10 post minimum before "posting"? Edit: answered by Sue.

I think 10 replies to other posts before you can make your own post is what JJ means.

I'm not attached to my signature or personal signature, but maybe something like this should be voted on.

A 10 post minimum would be nice. I've implemented that elsewhere and it's weeded out quite a few trolls (of course that's less of a problem here).

I know at least one person using a custom user title to offend me, specifically. Big surprise, huh?

I don't see a problem with making these changes, personally. I usually just notice avatars, anyway, to confirm who is making the reply. I hardly ever read signatures, and I only occasionally read custom user titles. 10 replies before making a new thread is a good idea, I think, so mods can confirm the quality of posts.

id have to disagree with the 10 post rule.

it might hinder people joining or coming back to the site, so its not something i'd like to see happen

i'm kinda attached to my signature, so would not like to see them vaporized. but i see no particular problem with a feedback mechanism that could be used to get folk to remove (or just remove) offensive sigs.

i'm unclear as to the effect desired with the second suggestion: could you explain it a bit more please?

on the third: i think this is reasonable...

I've been letting this settle on my brain and thinking about them all as they are.

In my opinion, the only way to make the forum better is to get people participating more.

What are these enormous problems we're trying to solve here, and how is removing individuality and identity going to do so?

The only forum I know with no individuality is *chan, and I don't think that's the ultimate vision for tfp, or even a direction we want to slide.

Who cares if my signature/title/avatar offend people? I come to TFP specifically to be offended, to have my mores stretched, and to have social conventions questioned. Why remove that?

There is already a function to turn off signatures and avatars, correct?

De-personalizing existing members,
is not going to attract new members.

De-personalizing existing members could very well back-fire and send them away.

I agree with Halx.

Quoted for truth.

As do I. I reject the notion that having "Tone" as a custom title is putting me into any sort of lofty/cliquish group. I cannot see such a custom title offending anyone, unless they get offended when people express mild individuality.

People who get offended by individuality should find a nice communist country to settle in ;)

I would miss both my signature and my custom title. I like them, I like having them. Removing them would be removing my identity on the board; if I wanted to do that, I'd just call myself 'anonymous member' and be done with it. People who have offense titles to provoke a response should be warned about it, but removing everyone's title is not the way to improve the board. I found that having custom titles made me post more to reach the status where I could have one, thereby improving the board. If we remove all the perks that make this board different, we'll be removing what makes this board special too.

Honestly, I wish new members had to 'earn' avatars again...it's distracting to subconsciously parse and store avatars which are essentially 'noise' instead of signal, as they may change multiple times in a short period or possibly even cease posting at all. I have long identified posts by avatar or distinctive signature (as it is inline with the text) more than by typed name.

/elitist snobbery

I don't really see the 'problem' of Avatars and signatures in the same light as you do, so I don't think removing either is the solution. Given enough time, people can find offense in anything individual about another. Us 'average users' don't really see any of the negatives associated with avatars or signatures, unless we're personally offended. I'd say that's pretty rare, given the "live and let live" mentality of most posters here.

All of your suggestions could ultimately be implemented if the amount of work moderators perform to review signatures, avatars and 'newbie threads' becomes prohibitive. It'd be a change to help moderators, though, not users. I don't think you'll get much support for any of these ideas here.

Yeah, that's what I came here to say. JJ, your suggestions aren't bad, but they're primarily superficial. If we're going to "fix" TFP (not that I think it's broken), don't you think we need more than superficial changes?

RE: the 10 post rule I have very mixed emotions. It, for instance, would stop introductory threads in the Newbie forum, which I actually kind of like. But I do see your point.

The others? Sure, if that's what people want. I don't have strong feelings either way.

Avatars and sigs make people feel like part of the "community." No one wants to feel like a "faceless" drone, even during their "probationary" period. And no one wants to be told they have nothing to contribute by initiating new conversation on topics; if this is a "mature" forum, there is no need for training wheels.

BTW, what's "broken"? Is this the decreased traffic issue again?

I think that's what he's driving at, Will. I think that it's safe to say that it's one of the staff's primary concerns.

Wait, you implemented a system that required you to post before you were allowed to post? How the hell could that have possibly worked out well on a forum?

I don't think giving us all a 'uniform' and 'dressing' us the same improves anything - on the contrary. It strips us of our individuality.

To improve the forums, I think general appearance and readability could help, but the main thing is definitely participate as much as possible, and try and create new content.

I had the same problem. Then I realized he probably meant ten REPLIES before you can START a thread.

Honestly, some people think these are good ideas? This site is becoming too serious.
Taking away the join dates was not a good idea in my opinion and neither are any of the ones JJ mentioned.

I think taking away earning perks (avatar and custom title) was a bad idea. Personally, I looked forward to moving up. People in general want something to strive for. What is there to strive for now? Member's Playground... Tilted Trampoline was hilarious and something that was a novelty and made the site more interesting as I progressed. I don't see anything interesting or motivating to keep people here. I think that may be a factor in the slow down of this community. New blood brings new ideas. It's not happening nearly as much as it did in the past. I think it's because the loss of incentives, edge, and this place is way too fucking serious.

Taking away things because of fear of elitism is ridiculous. There have been people here longer than others and that will always be the case. People typically reminisce the most when times are bad. Think about it, when do people start posting reminiscent posts?... Losing the join date isn't going to prevent that.


The fact that these suggestions are being debated makes me sad. I don't know what happened to TFP, but it has evolved into something I don't recognize anymore.

so were this suggestions a kind of test then?

It's a bit--stuffy--in here. Don't get me wrong, it's a great community, and I'm happy to have found it and look forward to spending time here, but it feels less like people at a dinner party and more like people chatting in a waiting room.

We've pared down the bling that someone can put on their postbit and sigs. When you look at other forums that's the first thing you'll notice. Stars, bars, reputation, post counts, graphic sigs... all these things have been stripped down to something that looks less cluttered without removing the individuality of the poster.

Elitism happens not because someone has or has not, that's a simple definer, but people tend to do so subconsciously as a matter of "survival trait" associations and cultural comfort. I'm no sociologist, but it seems to be pervasive from historical writings and literature and seems to cross oceans and mountains.

People can talk down and elitism can still happen just in the very text that is written in a response. I think this is where and how politics is challenging because it is hard to read a backhanded compliment in there sometimes.

But to expound on Halx's thoughts: This is about participation, you get what you put into it. If you put nothing in, you get nothing out.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Interesting analogy. What are they waiting for?

I don't know. It's just feels a little "clinical" to me. I've only been here a few days, so I don't want to sound critical; this forum has been running fine without me for a long time. But "fun" isn't the first adjective I would use to describe the place. Maybe that's by design.

I see.

Forum traffic is generally determined by content, not features. Removing signatures or requiring posts before creating threads isn't really going to change traffic. I could be wrong, but I don't think the video chat or the upgraded blogs are increasing traffic, either. Aside from posting links to the forum on democratic aggregate sites like Digg or Reddit, the best way to attract new members is letting the current members do what they do and create interesting content. Are people are interested in educated rants on the pitfalls of neoliberalism? We've got em. Are people interested in naked amateur pictures? We've got those, too. Are people interested in paranoid 9/11 conspiracy theories? Oh yeah, TFP has you covered. Forums evolve naturally. User-created content is TFP's best and most honest advertisement. Compare the ability to post anonymously with that brilliant thread about the experience of having a vasectomy. Which would attract you more?

The staff shouldn't place the burden of marketing on their shoulders. The forum should market itself via content automatically. If there's a slowdown, just be patient. Or maybe one of you can volunteer to get a vasectomy. If it picks back up again (and I suspect it will some time later this year), that's great. If not, then maybe TFP can simply continue to exist as something a bit smaller and more intimate. There's no shame in that, after all.

Hey Fugly, here's some fun ..... try

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/archive/

or just set the page in the sexuality and life forums to beginning. Also, don't just read the recent posts. Those will soon begin to start appearing as boring rehashes of what could have happened.

Trust me, if not for the learning, this place also makes for great entertainment.

P.S. I Totally and completely agree with shesus.

It would be nice if people would start creating more content.

Aw shucks, Guc....I was kinda looking forward to your essay on having a vasectomy....

I haven't had one yet ;)