Completely insane idea - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Stiltzkin · 06-14-2003, 09:06 PM

NOTE: *NOT* for the faint of heart. You've been warned

Before I begin, allow me to say that this is meant mostly for Hal and whoever else codes scripts for the TFP. Another thing is that I *do* realize the sheer amount of work that would have to be done on the original vBulletin engine itself for this to work, and I know that I myself would *not* do it unless I was getting paid-- which makes it likely that this won't happen--, but here is my insane idea anyway.

Make the TFP turn every page into a plain HTML page, and have every link refering to TFP's thread's boards point instead to that HTML page. I've noticed that nearly 100% of the content found on TFP is generated on an on-demand basis, and I would imagine that this causes most of the stress on the server. I know that you'd have to re-work the core engine of the vBulletin itself in order to accomplish this, and I don't necessarily think that you guys should do it, but it would vastly increase access speeds, I think.

I know that the following problems are present: 3 different color schemes means at least three versions of *every single page* Not only this, but each board can be costomized by the user to display posts only starting from "the last day" to "show all threads" which is 12 different options. So far this is at least 36 HTML page versions for each board, not to mention each individual page if the board has a ton of posts. Then we'd have to take into account the "default posts per thread", with 8 options, so at least 24 HTML pages per page of each thread, assuming the thread has enough posts to warrant more than one page. Then of course each user has the time stamp for each post/edit adjusted to the time zone they selected, but this might not be too much of a problem if you created a directory in the server for each time zone and then categorized all 19k users via some index to their proper directory, this way the server would not have to check which version of the page to give the user (at least as far as what adjusted time to display), just direct them to the version of the page that resides in the directory in which their username exists-- all this of course to avoid creating the same HTML page over and over. Anyways, thats 25 different directories (you know, one for each time zone) Then things start getting nuts when someone changes a preference that reflects onto their actual posts, such as when they change their avatar (unless the URL/filename of the avatar remains the same) or when they change their signature. This would likely produce conflicts with people trying to post and someone else changing their preferences at the same time. I suppose the server would have to place people on a queue and have them wait until the previous person has finished their business, then it will process the next user's request. Hmm... ok, so maybe it *wouldn't* increase efficiency

But it would if the TFP wasn't so customizable!

Not saying that being able to customize the way TFP looks is a bad thing, just... dunno, programmer's ramblings are of the strangest kind

Ok, just finished reading through this and it is very ramble-ish and doesn't make sense somtimes. I apologize, and I am in the process of polishing it off

Halx · 06-14-2003, 10:23 PM

server caching... completely impractical for vbb
php is a dynamic language and it is actually a lot faster than you'd think
a year ago, the site ran on software called ubb, which was at the time essentially what you are describing, each thread and forum made from html... as soon as we got a little popular, the site ran slower than a drunken snail.
Besides, the forum has a few preferences such as 'display avatars', 'display images' and 'display signatures' that people use to their advantage while browsing. As well, administrators and moderators see a slightly different view of the forums than you do. Multiply that by the number of styles avail... Now imagine creating about 12 to 15 versions of EACH PAGE... yeah right.

At the very least, the site needs to be able to calculate a few things every time a users clicks on a link (log in info, private messages) and you cant do that with html.

Furthermore, we've tried something similar to this in the past. It ended up crashing the site because we ran out of disk space.

Stiltzkin · 06-14-2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
At the very least, the site needs to be able to calculate a few things every time a users clicks on a link (log in info, private messages) and you cant do that with html.

Furthermore, we've tried something similar to this in the past. It ended up crashing the site because we ran out of disk space.

I've only worked with ASP before, which means I've only worked with an IIS server, meaning my experience is limited... I was gonna mention about the disk space, as I can easily imagine that it'd take tons of disk space to accomplish the aforementioned task. Anyways, thanks for reading my ramblings

06-14-2003, 09:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	Completely insane idea NOTE: NOT for the faint of heart. You've been warned Before I begin, allow me to say that this is meant mostly for Hal and whoever else codes scripts for the TFP. Another thing is that I do realize the sheer amount of work that would have to be done on the original vBulletin engine itself for this to work, and I know that I myself would not do it unless I was getting paid-- which makes it likely that this won't happen--, but here is my insane idea anyway. Make the TFP turn every page into a plain HTML page, and have every link refering to TFP's thread's boards point instead to that HTML page. I've noticed that nearly 100% of the content found on TFP is generated on an on-demand basis, and I would imagine that this causes most of the stress on the server. I know that you'd have to re-work the core engine of the vBulletin itself in order to accomplish this, and I don't necessarily think that you guys should do it, but it would vastly increase access speeds, I think. I know that the following problems are present: 3 different color schemes means at least three versions of every single page Not only this, but each board can be costomized by the user to display posts only starting from "the last day" to "show all threads" which is 12 different options. So far this is at least 36 HTML page versions for each board, not to mention each individual page if the board has a ton of posts. Then we'd have to take into account the "default posts per thread", with 8 options, so at least 24 HTML pages per page of each thread, assuming the thread has enough posts to warrant more than one page. Then of course each user has the time stamp for each post/edit adjusted to the time zone they selected, but this might not be too much of a problem if you created a directory in the server for each time zone and then categorized all 19k users via some index to their proper directory, this way the server would not have to check which version of the page to give the user (at least as far as what adjusted time to display), just direct them to the version of the page that resides in the directory in which their username exists-- all this of course to avoid creating the same HTML page over and over. Anyways, thats 25 different directories (you know, one for each time zone) Then things start getting nuts when someone changes a preference that reflects onto their actual posts, such as when they change their avatar (unless the URL/filename of the avatar remains the same) or when they change their signature. This would likely produce conflicts with people trying to post and someone else changing their preferences at the same time. I suppose the server would have to place people on a queue and have them wait until the previous person has finished their business, then it will process the next user's request. Hmm... ok, so maybe it wouldn't increase efficiency But it would if the TFP wasn't so customizable! Not saying that being able to customize the way TFP looks is a bad thing, just... dunno, programmer's ramblings are of the strangest kind Ok, just finished reading through this and it is very ramble-ish and doesn't make sense somtimes. I apologize, and I am in the process of polishing it off __________________ The most important thing in this world is love. Last edited by Stiltzkin; 06-14-2003 at 09:09 PM..

06-14-2003, 10:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	server caching... completely impractical for vbb php is a dynamic language and it is actually a lot faster than you'd think a year ago, the site ran on software called ubb, which was at the time essentially what you are describing, each thread and forum made from html... as soon as we got a little popular, the site ran slower than a drunken snail. Besides, the forum has a few preferences such as 'display avatars', 'display images' and 'display signatures' that people use to their advantage while browsing. As well, administrators and moderators see a slightly different view of the forums than you do. Multiply that by the number of styles avail... Now imagine creating about 12 to 15 versions of EACH PAGE... yeah right. At the very least, the site needs to be able to calculate a few things every time a users clicks on a link (log in info, private messages) and you cant do that with html. Furthermore, we've tried something similar to this in the past. It ended up crashing the site because we ran out of disk space. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] Last edited by Halx; 06-14-2003 at 10:47 PM..