Crazy MLB Free Agent Market - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kutulu · 12-01-2005, 02:46 PM

So the signing and trading season is well underway in MLB. There have been a lot of big signings and trades and we haven't even hit hte deadline for when teams have to decide to offer arbitration to free agents yet. Overall, the 2006 free agent class sucks. There just isn't much talent out there and the best ones have age and/or health warning signs. The shocking thing is the amount of money being thrown around at the players this year:

Konerko - 5yr/$60M, age 29. I think that at the minimum, Konerko will be worth the money for the first 2-3 seasons. After that, anything can happen. It's risky to be guaranteeing that kind of money to someone in their mid 30's.

Scott Eyre - 3/11 Will be 36 at the end of the contract and has had exactly 3 good seasons in 8 years.

Giles - 3/30 Will be 37!!! at the end of the deal. He's kept an exceptional OBP throughout his career but his OPS has been falling like a rock since he moved to SD.

Loaiza - 3/21.4 Will be 36 at the end. Apparantly mediocre starting pitchers are worth 7M/yr now.

BJ Ryan - 5/47m!!!11 Great pitcher, obscene money.

Wagner - 4/43 Bad contract, will be 38 at the end of his contract.

Still not signed:

Hoffman - Wants 3 yrs and between 25-27M, he's 38

Burnett - Will probably get about $12M Has the health of an AIDS patient.

I can't wait to see what happens after Dec 7th.

djtestudo · 12-01-2005, 03:23 PM

I'll say this.

As an Orioles fan who loves BJ Ryan, the Blue Jays will be strangled by that deal. He's good, but not nearly THAT good.

kutulu · 12-01-2005, 03:32 PM

I will give Ryan credit though. He has excellent peripherals. Not much experience as a closer but that really doesn't matter.

Esen · 12-02-2005, 02:43 AM

The scary part is if GM Manaya had his way thee Mets roster for 2006 would be:

C Hernandez
1b Delgado
2b Soriano
ss Reyes
3b Wright
lf Manny
Cf Beltran
rf Ichiro
4th of Cliff Floyd

and thats not even pitching included

of course it is not going to happen but it gives you an I dea of the money teams are willing to spend to win

(Im a Met fan btw)

kutulu · 12-02-2005, 09:27 AM

I don't think they have enough left over in their farm system to pick up Manny, Soriano, and still have enough left over to aquire pitching. Ichiro is plain unavailable. All I can say is that this better work for the Mets because it will take years to recover from these contracts and the damage they are doing to their current farm system if they fail.

Delgado - 13.5, 14.5, 16M 06-08 16M option with 4M buyout in 09
Beltran - 12M 06; 18.5 (8.5 deferred) from 07 - 11
Pedro - 14M in 06, 07 (4M/yr deferred), 11.5M (2M deferred) in 08
Wagner - 10.5M 06 - 09

Soriano - 7.5M in 05, arb eligible next two? years will probably get 8.5-9 in 2006, 10M in 2007
Manny - 19, 18, 20 from 06-08 (4m/yr deferred)

That's 50M to 4 players. If they get Soriano and Manny that is 76.5.

I heard they are holding on to Heilman and Milledge in hopes of snagging Manny. Wow.

pan6467 · 12-03-2005, 02:53 AM

Look what HUGE spending did to Az. a World Series and then nothing. Having to trade away everyone, mortgaging the future for 1 year of success is not good.

But neither is the Indians way of being cheap as Hell and saying they are going to rebuild from within.

There has to be a middle ground and you have seen that in the Chisox, The Astros, the Braves, The Cards, and the class clubs that are in the pennant races year in and year out, with good attendence figures and high sales of their merchandise. The clubs that spend the huge money get bogged down by the contracts and end up losing more than they gain.

The Indians were on the right track, until cheap ass dolan bought the team and puts no money into it.

The Reds could be there but they suck at evaluating pitching. Milton? when they could have had Millwood. Ramon Ortiz? when they could have probably gotten someone a tad better for just a little bit more. Paying out big money for subpar relief pitching? They had the offense, and put the money into pitching they just sucked at who they went after.

(BTW I love my Ohio teams..... just miss the 90's owners who knew how to put good teams on the field and asses in seats to keep the teams good and competitive.)

MontanaXVI · 12-05-2005, 05:36 PM

Furcal to the Dodgers is big, what are the Braves thinking? Put Chipper back at SS? Farnsworth to the Yankees? I am not a Braves fan but just sitting back looking at it all, it is going to be a long season in Atlanta.

Now for me being an A's fan I kinda like the idea of Frank Thomas in green, but can he stay healthy even as a DH to actually be worth anything?

djtestudo · 12-05-2005, 05:49 PM

Atlanta has this guy:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...-betemit.shtml

and about ten guys who could in theory close, so I don't think they are losing sleep over Furcal or (especially) Farnsworth.

pan6467 · 12-05-2005, 05:50 PM

With the Big Hurt I'd give him the "Juan Gone" type contract Cleveland used in 2001 and last year.

That is bare minimum but heavily incentive laden. That way he controls his own destiny and has everything to gain for having a good year.

2001 it worked for us and Juan Gone, last year it didn't.

kutulu · 12-06-2005, 09:33 AM

I wouldn't expect much from Betemit. He's turning 26 soon and last season was his first significant action.

And Pan, yes the DBacks mortgaged the future ut they also won the division in 99, and 02 and finished above .500 in 03 (despite having lost RJ for basically the season and Schilling for nearly half of the season). The Schilling trade (however botched it was) was done with the intention of getting Sexson and the RJ trade was initiated by RJ, not the team as a salary dump. Those were the only trades involving high paid players.

People look back on it as a spending spree followed by a fire sale but it wasn't that way. They started building that team almost right from the start by getting Bell, Miller and Williams right away, then RJ, Gonzo, Finley, and Womack the next year. They traded for Schilling in 2000 and signed Grace (for less than what he made in 2000) and Sanders as free agents in 01.

People like to remember them as going from chumps to champs then back to chumps but it was NOT that way at all.

pan6467 · 12-06-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

I wouldn't expect much from Betemit. He's turning 26 soon and last season was his first significant action.

And Pan, yes the DBacks mortgaged the future ut they also won the division in 99, and 02 and finished above .500 in 03 (despite having lost RJ for basically the season and Schilling for nearly half of the season). The Schilling trade (however botched it was) was done with the intention of getting Sexson and the RJ trade was initiated by RJ, not the team as a salary dump. Those were the only trades involving high paid players.

People look back on it as a spending spree followed by a fire sale but it wasn't that way. They started building that team almost right from the start by getting Bell, Miller and Williams right away, then RJ, Gonzo, Finley, and Womack the next year. They traded for Schilling in 2000 and signed Grace (for less than what he made in 2000) and Sanders as free agents in 01.

People like to remember them as going from chumps to champs then back to chumps but it was NOT that way at all.

Good points on Az.

I remember Matt Williams kind of held Cle. hostage with his desire to go to his hometown. He kept saying he liked Cle. and all but he was going to retire if they didn't trade him to Az. because he needed to be with his kids, so we did, didn't get anything for him but we did so because other than the threats he was a class act who treated Cle. and the fans with respect.

Of course when I lived in Phoenix and saw that beautiful new wife he had shortly after the trade I would have wanted to be closer to home more too.

kutulu · 12-06-2005, 03:45 PM

His wife is pretty hot. I think he is a respectable enough guy. I did not like the way AZ treated him in 2003. They tried to trade him for Larry Walker and when he excercised his NTC (citing his family) they DFA'ed him and he chose to retire afterwards. I guess its hard to feel bad for a guy who got paid $10M to do nothing but it's not how I saw him going out. I guess he didn't hold any hard feelings because he's now a part of the front office.

pan6467 · 12-06-2005, 08:44 PM

I truly do not understand my Indians..... $7 MILLION/yr for 2 guaranteed and a third optional to a 35 year old Byrd?

And $7 Million offered/year for 3 years to a 38 yr. old Trevor Hoffman?

They are almost as bad as the REDS with pitchin *see note afterward*

If I were the Tribe I'd have signed Millwood for the $10 Mill/4 yrs with a performance based optional 5th and 6th year easily.

Then signed Wickman for 2 years with a performance based optional 3rd for maybe 3-4 million/year.

Same amount of money going out, better pitchers signed. Plus, Dolan can no longer sing poverty as he just signed an extremely wealthy contract with TW Cable and WKYC to set up an Indians network and ticket sales are moving faster than they have in years.

**** As for the REDS they want to trade Casey.... I can see that they are overloaded in the OF (move Dunn full time to 1st, then have JR. Pena and Kearns in the OF, freaking scary there...), they could use the money, they have a very strong offense with or without Casey and they desperately need good pitching..... but to trade him for straight up for Pit's Williams or for Bosux's Arroyo and a prospect??????? Are they freaking nuts???? Heyzeusfreakingcrisps, they should be able to get better pitching than that.

Maybe thet'll trade Casey and with the money saved sign Millwood. Otherwise the trade of Casey was fireselling at its worst.

thephuse · 12-07-2005, 02:13 AM

Texas only wanted Trachsel for Sori?.. I'm sure the Mets would pull the trigger if they knew what to do with Kaz...

Mets prolly wanna get Kaz, Floyd and whatnot for Manny.. and get Sori from Texas..

Benson for Affeldt and Macdougal I think will be a very good deal for the Mets, dump that salary and improve bullpen.

I think Wagner'll hold up for at least 3 yrs... Hoffman, Wickman, Todd Jones, R.Hernandez and Clemens have shown me that with conditioning, pitchers, esp. relievers can be healthy and effective close to 40...

BJ Ryan's deal was insane! highest paid reliever? Lidge, Gagne, MARIANO...yet Ryan had one yr as a closer,,, albeit a good one, that kind of money was unjustified... I kno Toronto wanted to make a statement and show that they wanted to spend.. but dumb spending will get you the Texas Rangers...

kutulu · 12-07-2005, 08:52 AM

Considering the market, the offer to Hoffman is very reasonable. Wagner and Ryan both got about $10M/yr.

The Reds did get butraped on teh Casey trade but what are they going to do? Casey will make almost $9M next year and has a career OPS of .833, and that is very reliant on a high BA with lots of singles and not enough HRs. In some ways they are lucky to be rid of Casey (would you pay JT Snow $9M?). Williams may be nothing special but hes as good as anything they currently have.

kutulu · 12-07-2005, 12:55 PM

Comparison between Snow and Casey:
Snow
Year OPS+ Salary ($M)
2000 115 4.75
2001 103 5.75
2002 94 5.90
2003 112 6.85
2004 144 1.50
2005 88 2.00

Casey
2000 119 .400
2001 114 3.00
2002 78 4.00
2003 98 5.60
2004 142 6.80
2005 104 7.80

I don't think Casey is as good with the glove as Snow is. I hear the Reds are also sending cash. At first I also thought the Reds were getting screwed but when you consider the fact that even if they get $4M, they are still paying about $5M for a 1B (a power position) and he's only a little better than league average and they lost a good LH starter.

thephuse · 12-07-2005, 01:04 PM

Loretta to the RedSox for Back up catcher mirrabelli.. hrm..

djtestudo · 12-07-2005, 08:43 PM

Reports are that the Orioles have agreed to a deal with Ramon Hernandez, in addition to trading for LaTroy Hawkins, plus supposedly have the only offer out on Nomar Garciaparra.

Sweet...

Jimellow · 12-07-2005, 08:51 PM

Alfonso Soriano traded to the Washington Nationals for for Brad Wilkerson, Termel Sledge, and a minor leaguer to be named later.

Article can be found HERE.

pan6467 · 12-07-2005, 10:15 PM

Well, no surprises here. Hoffman stays a Padre and the Indians sign Wick for a year. Which, Wicky is scary but he is good and I'm glad we kept him. But again we could have kept Millwood and while a 5 yr. contract is high for him, it still would have shown us fans Dolan truly wants to win.

If I had been Wicky, I would have told the Indians to go to Hell first but he knew it wasn't personal. I would have liked to have seen a multiyear deal for him though because that means this time next year the Indians will be doing this all over again.

The Indians were reportedly after Nomar, but haven't heard anything.... so congrats DJ if it's true Nomar I think has a good year or 2 left in him.

I wouldn't mind see the Indians taking a chance on Piazza and putting him at 1B. I think in the A.L. He'll still have a lot to offer.

I am very surprised Houston called Clemons old and didn't offer arbitration. Perhaps, he doesn't want to pitch and this will be an excuse not to, OR will put a big fire in his ass to have a great year and show Houston he could still pitch.

Clemons at 43-44 will still probably be better than 75% of the rest of the starters out there. If he does play, I see him staying on an NL team or if he does pitch in the AL it will only be for the Rangers.

This years surprise pitcher could be Jamey Wright. He could become a very good 5th Starter for a team and will be relatively cheap. If the Indians don't re-sign Elarton (and I think they will re-sign him), I see them going after him that wouldn't be the worst case scenario.

Wright, could also make a good match with Cincy, Texas, Az. Fla.

I could see Washburn becoming this year's Millwood, relatively cheap but has a great year for the team who signs him.

I don't have much faith in Matt Morris.

In Reds news it looks like they are trying to deal Dunn and Kearns, which Kearns could net them some good prospects but to trade Dunn, unless they sign a BIG name or the deal has a big name involved going to Cincy, the fans will revolt down there.

Granted the Reds need pitching desperately, but getting rid of all your offense for pitching then throws out that balnce a team like the Reds need.

They are a team loaded with potential All-Stars (especially if JR stays healthy again) Larue, Freel, Wily Mo, Eduardo Encarnacion, and a couple Starting pitchers that show potential to really start toughening with age like Hudson, Harang and Claussen even Matt Belisle can come into his own. IF Wilson, Milton and Williams can live up to their potential the pitching may surprise everyone.

They may have the pitching they need but they also have question marks on every SP and that is not a great way to enter a season.

But to trade away offense especially Dunn they better make sure they get an excellent return for their money.

kutulu · 12-08-2005, 08:43 AM

DBacks got Estrada for Cormier and Villarreal (relief pitchers). Villarreal had one great year and has been continuously injured/ineffective since. Cormier is more like a AAAA pitcher. That said, you have to wonder when the Braves want any pitcher. Estrada's projections are pretty close to that of Hernandez. He's a switch hitter who hits much better from the left so it allows Snyder (only 24 or 25 and never played in AAA) to continue to develop. I like this trade.

We still haven't traded Vazquez but that will come soon enough. They are also trying to trade Glaus, probably for pitching to replace Vazquez.

Piazza - pass. If the stars align he could put up an OPS of .850 but that would still only make him average for a 1B. Worth a shot if a team has nothing better but they shouldn't pay more than about $4M for him

dylanmarsh · 12-08-2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephuse

Loretta to the RedSox for Back up catcher mirrabelli.. hrm..

Hello solid #2 hitter! Now, if we can only get a lead off man to go with with him and a better fielding shortstop to cut down on the unearned runs.

kutulu · 12-08-2005, 09:08 AM

RSox also got Marte from Atl for Rentaria. Great deal.

Jimellow · 12-08-2005, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

RSox also got Marte from Atl for Rentaria. Great deal.

The Red Sox just acquired Lowell (3B), so I imagine either he, or Marte won't be on the team come Spring Trraining..

pan6467 · 12-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

We still haven't traded Vazquez but that will come soon enough. They are also trying to trade Glaus, probably for pitching to replace Vazquez.

Piazza - pass. If the stars align he could put up an OPS of .850 but that would still only make him average for a 1B. Worth a shot if a team has nothing better but they shouldn't pay more than about $4M for him

Vazquez is an interesting pitcher... he has flashes of greatness then breaks down mentally in his game. IT'll be very interesting to see who gets him.... (maybe one of my Ohio teams).

As for Piazza... 4 mill is too much. I'd go 2.5 - 3 mill and load it heavily with incentives and an option year or two. Same with Frank Thomas.... If either of those guys performs decently, not only were they cheap but the fans would go nuts (well in most cities they would). If they didn't perform you didn't lose much...

I can see the Indians taking that type of gamble with Piazza. They did it with Juan Gone in '01 and it worked very well.... tried it last year with him and he failed miserably, but it didn't cost them much (in baseball economics).

kutulu · 12-08-2005, 11:59 AM

The Reds got power hitting LF Womack and 900k from the Yankees. Analysts are still wondering why.

Hopefully the prospects they traded aren't good enough to play anything more than September callup or they got robbed big time. Womack posted an OPS+ of 47 last season.

pan6467 · 12-08-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

The Reds got power hitting LF Womack and 900k from the Yankees. Analysts are still wondering why.

Hopefully the prospects they traded aren't good enough to play anything more than September callup or they got robbed big time. Womack posted an OPS+ of 47 last season.

I didn't even know Womack was still playing baseball.

Ohhhh the Reds are just being idiots now. But then again they need someone in the OF to take Kearns' spot when they trade him for Pedro....

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Pedro Astacio that is.

djtestudo · 12-08-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimellow

The Red Sox just acquired Lowell (3B), so I imagine either he, or Marte won't be on the team come Spring Trraining..

My guess is either Lowell plays first or Marte starts in AAA.

dylanmarsh · 12-08-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I didn't even know Womack was still playing baseball.

Ohhhh the Reds are just being idiots now. But then again they need someone in the OF to take Kearns' spot when they trade him for Pedro....

Pedro Astacio that is.

My sympathies.

thephuse · 12-08-2005, 06:49 PM

I dont understand the Renteria deal... Renteria had a pretty bad yr.. but he's still a premier SS... Marte's still just a prospect. And now they have Cora playin SS... eh?

and the Sori deal... huh? Texas has more outfielders now.. and the Nats have 2 great 2B... dont get it.

And now Tejada wants out of Baltimore... What?.. he didnt know what he was getting paid a lot for?.. He's the centerpiece of the team.. its not like the Orioles havent tried to get FA.. its just no one wants to go the Baltimore.. I guess he wants to go to a team that's already winning.. so he can win.. not help his own team win.

As for my Yanks.. Its grimly lookin like Bubba'll be our CF next yr.. everyone's gone.. unless Damon goes down to 4yrs.. at which point im sure Boston'll take him.. bleg.. at least we gotta handful of avg~above avg pitchers in the rotation.. sigh..

At least the Red Sox made some bonehead moves to even the playing field a little.. Although trading away Manny would have been the ultimate bonehead move... Ortiz wouldnt be half as good w/o Manny... I thought the Red Sox had their team set, with improved pitching and the same offense... but now they have no SS, and replaced his bad with Loretta's.. maybe now they'll win w/ pitching.. Beckett IS very good.. altho clement, arroyo, wade miller and wakefield are just avg...

djtestudo · 12-08-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephuse

And now Tejada wants out of Baltimore... What?.. he didnt know what he was getting paid a lot for?.. He's the centerpiece of the team.. its not like the Orioles havent tried to get FA.. its just no one wants to go the Baltimore.. I guess he wants to go to a team that's already winning.. so he can win.. not help his own team win.

This is going over extemely well here...

Half the fans want to quit the team, and the other half want his no-good POS ass out of town on a rail.

He's got some 'splaining to do, especially since this comes out on the day we sign the best available catcher, who will help the team a lot.

dylanmarsh · 12-09-2005, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephuse

I dont understand the Renteria deal... Renteria had a pretty bad yr.. but he's still a premier SS... Marte's still just a prospect. And now they have Cora playin SS... eh?

At least the Red Sox made some bonehead moves to even the playing field a little.. Although trading away Manny would have been the ultimate bonehead move... Ortiz wouldnt be half as good w/o Manny... I thought the Red Sox had their team set, with improved pitching and the same offense... but now they have no SS, and replaced his bad with Loretta's.. maybe now they'll win w/ pitching.. Beckett IS very good.. altho clement, arroyo, wade miller and wakefield are just avg...

The Sox starting nine is still as good as last year:

1. Damon (he will re-sign)
2. Loretta
3. Manny
4. Papi
5. Tek
6. Nixon
7. Lowell
8. Youklis
9. TBD SS (possibly Alex Gonzalez)

Starting rotation:

Beckett
Schilling
Clement
Wake
Miller/Arroyo/Papelbon/Lester

The Sox are doing very well this offseason. They got some bullpen help in Mota, they improved defensively, which Renteria was a huge liability, and they got a number one starter in Beckett. Plus, there's no way the Sox are done making moves.

Also, from what I've read, Marte will be in the majors and making an impact this year.

kutulu · 12-09-2005, 07:36 AM

I'm not as sold on Beckett as everyone else seems to be. First of all, his K rate and HR rate (both of which are excellent) will go up just from the switch to the AL East. On top of that, you have the fact that his great ERA was so based on his performance in Fla. His home/road ERAs were about 2.47/4.31. Finally, he's had 4 seasons and he's never come close to 200 IP (injury risk). Overall, I highly doubt that he'll post better than a 4.25 ERA next season. Not bad, but not great either.

pan6467 · 12-09-2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

I'm not as sold on Beckett as everyone else seems to be. First of all, his K rate and HR rate (both of which are excellent) will go up just from the switch to the AL East. On top of that, you have the fact that his great ERA was so based on his performance in Fla. His home/road ERAs were about 2.47/4.31. Finally, he's had 4 seasons and he's never come close to 200 IP (injury risk). Overall, I highly doubt that he'll post better than a 4.25 ERA next season. Not bad, but not great either.

I agree.

He's prone to blisters and wait till he pitches in the cold North Eastern Spring air, as opposed to warm Miami.

I think him and Burnett face some rude awakenings. I think the warm Miami springs were extremely helpful for them, that won't find those up North where now a majority of there starts will be.

Fireballers when they start that young usually either burn out/blow out their arms early and never see their true potential (Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Jaret Wright, Benson, Oliver Perez, Jeriome Williams, Brett Myers and these 2 aren't the healthiest SP to begin with) or they really don't hit their stride and fulfill that potential until their 30's (Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Clemons, Bartolo Colon, Pedro even.)

I see both having horrid years this year. Burkett in Toronto I think is by far the riskier of the 2. Beckett will be gone from Boston by this time next year.

I see both pitching high 4 low 5 ERAs in April and May and falling apart in September, if they stay healthy.

This is not to say I wouldn't have wanted either on the Reds or Indians.... well yes I would have I'd prefer to see Vazquez, maybe Tony Armas or Washburn or Millwood....

But then again what do I know, GM's get paid for forgetting far more than I ever will ever know about the game and players.

kutulu · 12-09-2005, 10:00 AM

I'm not giving up on Prior yet but I'd like to see him put together 3 years of being injury free also. Fucking Cubs, they have a true HOF quality player and they had him average 110 P/GS at 22 and 23.

Overall, I think Beckett will be a quality pitcher, solid #2 or #3 type, but not ace potential. His peripherals are excellent (extremely low HR rate, great K rate, descent BB rate) and even though they will all rise they won't kill him. Eventually he might be a true ace, the AL East is just so tough. There are so many great hitters there.

Burnett is higher risk but I think he has much higher potential. I think health is his only quesiton. Aside from his BB's his peripheralls are just as good as Beckett's but his H/R splits aren't quite as drastic. As long as he's healthy (big question) I think he can put up an ERA in the mid to high 3's no problem.

Soriano says he won't play the OF. Wake up, you suck at 2B! He has good reason not to, as a CF he'd still be great offensively but as a corner OF he's pretty average.

I think Javy will have a nice rebound year. AZ's OF really hurt him, their OF defense was pathetic.

thephuse · 12-09-2005, 04:58 PM

I dont really think losing Renteria is improving the team.. and altho it doesnt look like it now.. if they lose Manny.. their offense would be shot.. Atlho their staidum jsut helps them that much..

You bring up good points about Beckett and Burnett.. It'd be funny if the Yanks get Nomar... all three of the "big 3" SS's of the 90's.

heh.. I think i remeber reading that that could happe n a few yrs back.. but didnt think it could...

I think the Yanks rotatin of Unit, Moose, Chacon, Pavano, Wang/Wright/Small is very dependable, altho two would have to move to the bullpen.. altho i hope wright and pavano could go.. prolly wang and small are gonna end up goin to the bullpen due to their salaries.. sigh..

Yanks' team is solid from last yr.. they needed an upgrade at CF.. but looks like there's little chance of upgrading now.. since if the yrs go down, Damon is a Redsox, and the Yanks wont give him his 7yrs he wants..

pan6467 · 12-10-2005, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephuse

I dont really think losing Renteria is improving the team.. and altho it doesnt look like it now.. if they lose Manny.. their offense would be shot.. Atlho their staidum jsut helps them that much..

You bring up good points about Beckett and Burnett.. It'd be funny if the Yanks get Nomar... all three of the "big 3" SS's of the 90's.

heh.. I think i remeber reading that that could happe n a few yrs back.. but didnt think it could...

I think the Yanks rotatin of Unit, Moose, Chacon, Pavano, Wang/Wright/Small is very dependable, altho two would have to move to the bullpen.. altho i hope wright and pavano could go.. prolly wang and small are gonna end up goin to the bullpen due to their salaries.. sigh..

Yanks' team is solid from last yr.. they needed an upgrade at CF.. but looks like there's little chance of upgrading now.. since if the yrs go down, Damon is a Redsox, and the Yanks wont give him his 7yrs he wants..

BTW Nomar's headed to Cleveland...... you can almost consider it a signed deal. 3 years for 15 mill with heavy incentives. He's going to be their 1B. Think the Tribe really got stupid with that but if he does a Millwood it's worth every penny.

Hey now Omar Vizquel was a bigtime SS in the 90's. We didn't need Nomar's or A-Rod's or Jeter's bat. Vizquel was a solid hitter who set the table. Plus his glove was unbeatable and won the Tribe many a game, I dare say more games probably than all 3 of those others bats won for their teams.

As for Yankee pitching it truly doesn't scare me. Johnson is old and his back is in bad shape.

Chacon couldn't even make it with the Rockies, I don't see him being that good, maybe a 5th starter for a desperate team, (unless you're Cincy and then he maybe a decent #3), I see Chacon's ERA over 5. Right now the Yanks have him as their #2, that's sad. Course I maybe totally wrong about the guy, maybe he is that good and it wasn't just a bump to the AL and the new team syndrome where when first traded you produce like a superstar but the next season you come to earth real fast.

Mussina, old his ERA and WHIP are climbing, last 1/3 of his games sucked sewer water, he's not scary. He's average at best, very hittable for the good offensive teams like the Angels, Indians, Rangers.... he needs to be traded and finish in an NL pitcher's park, he may have a good season or 2 left in him them.

Wang may have some talent and he's young, but the teams once they get to see him and what he has to offer, may end up teeing off on him.

Small, never a starter, at 34 on the older side to be trying, especially when he's only pitched 92.2 innings in the last 3 years, a career 4.9 ERA 1.57 WHIP and an opposition BA of .297. Not starter material. Says a lot about Yankee desperation that they would even consider him a SP.

Pavano got shelled last year and injured.... I don't see a very happy future for him. He isn't surrounded by Willis, Beckett, and Burnett. No strong pitching to tire the batters out for him. He didn't even make it into July, injured or not his opposing BA at .315 should tell you something. 4.77 ERA and a 1.47 WHIP.... naw he's Colorado material.

Jaret Wright had great potential when he came up through the Indians, but we destroyed his arm. 1 good year with Atl. and he was worth how much? A career ERA of 5.17, a WHIP at 1.55 and opposing BA at .276 and he topped those last season by having a 6.07 ERA, a WHIP of 1.77 and an opp. BA of .313? Very scary. His arm is spaghetti, to expect ANYTHING out of him is expecting too much.

Then looking at the Yankees roster, unless they make some seriously good moves..... I don't see it as all that fearsome.

Right now the Yankees look extremely beatable to me. I can see them finishing 3rd maybe 4th in the division. Toronto is scarier, Boston is far scarier, Baltimore if they get Dunn..... I just don't see it for the Yankees this year.

Unless they make power moves.... and they have no farm system to trade prospects out of, they have overpaid each and every player, so they can't really trade the players unless they eat a hell of a lot of salary.... no they self destructed. And I heard (but have looked and can't confirm it) the Yankees lost between $50 - 80 million..... not good, they are in no position to eat salary.

kutulu · 12-10-2005, 11:31 AM

I'd like the Nomar signing if it was one year. I think he can still do it.

Randy Johnson isn't done yet. He took some beatings in NY but he kept a descent K rate and finished with a 3.79 ERA. He'll never be the pitcher he was in AZ again but he'll pitch like that guy every now and then.

I think you're selling Chacon short. He's a good pitcher. He pitched over his head in NY last season but he'll be able to have an ERA in the low 4's. That's good enough to win games for hte Yankees.

They still have the bats they need and as long as their pitching can be average they have a shot at making the playoffs.

thephuse · 12-10-2005, 02:27 PM

Yankees seem extremely beatable?.. please!.. haha I know the Yankees have always been a fearsome team, but your telling me a team with Arod, Jeter, Sheffield, Matsui not that fearsome?.. unless they make serious moves?... Toronoto scares you more?.. comon.. you cant be serious!.. and if Baltimore gets Dunn? haha...

As good as Halladay is, as you said Burnett can be in for a rude awakening in the AL East... and their offense? Vernon Wells is good.. but... then.. Lyle Overbay!?..

Baltimore?.. talk about poor rotation.. lol.. and now with Tejada wanting out.. even if he stays, they have him and Javy.. and now Ramon Hernandez i guess..

Boston.. yes, they actually look very good this year.. but Schilling has yet to show me he has ever recovered from his ankle, and Beckett has his blisters and the whole AL East thing and weather issue you mentioned... Clement, Wade Miller, Wakefield.. arite.. I dont see great pitchers..

They had the amazing offense, and I think it'll be another very close year in the AL East.. but I still have to give my Yanks the edge... They've won in years past, and I think the Renteria move is a downgrade for their offense... Lowell's shown very sure signs of decline, and they'll miss Mueller's bat... They BETTER get Damon back.. or it could be a long season for RSN..

Just because the Yanks didnt make headline news doesnt mean theyve weakened,, They still have the All-Star calibur players we've had in past years.. I mean Giambi, Posada's shown decline, but I think Posada's got a few yrs left, and Giambi, if those numbers at the end were Steroid-free numbers (ehh.... i hope so?..) he'll give me good numbers..
up and coming Cano seems like he'll improve... So.. its CF... i mean even the Yanks cant have an All Star at every position

..

Our rotation is better than you give credit, Randy really locked down at the end of the season and gave us good starts.. Moose is always iffy, but ive always liked him, he's solid... Wang, Chacon, Small, and Wright will put up good numbers... If Wright stays healthy, he's got potential, and I hope Pavano pulls his pay... And I've always liked Chacon, he pitched in Colorado, and I'm sure getting out of there helped him..

I think the Yanks are as good as any team in the AL... altho Chicago has still the best team to beat next yr .. after adding another good bat to their amazing arms.. (Why couldnt Contreras pitch in NY?

)

kutulu · 12-14-2005, 01:15 PM

My DBacks traded Vazquez and cash to the WSox for El Dookie, Vizciano, and CF prospect Chris Young. Young is likely the centerpiece of the deal he was one of the Southern League's best OFs last year at only 21 and draws a lot of comparisons to Mike Cameron.

I was hoping for something better than El Dookie but he could work out to some extent. Changing leagues may help him, esp since the NL West is a cesspool of suckage right now. He doesn't make much and has a stellar postseason record so if he has a descent 1st half he can be flipped for something nice before the deadline.

The WSox get between 1-5M so they will owe Vazquez between 19-23M over the next two seasons. USCell is quite a pitcher's park so we'll have to see how Vazquez does next year. The Sox certainly have a much better OF defense than the DBacks did that that right there will help him a lot (our CF's last year were Cruz Jr and Shawn Green and runners took extra bases on Gonzo at will). With the money they will pay him it is a high risk/high reward situation for them. At the least, they are better off but Vazquez could be quite a bust if he has a repeat of the last couple seasons.

Now the AZ rotation is:
Webb
Ortiz
Hernandez
and 2 of either Vargas, Halsey or Nippert

That could be really bad. Webb is a fine #2 but he's no ace. He has a shot at being an ace if he can keep his walks down. I really hope Nippert cracks the rotation next season. His celing is just as high if not higher than Webb. Lots of K's, moderate BB, very low HR and low opponent BA. Like Webb he is the right type of pitcher to have in a place like Chase Field.

12-01-2005, 02:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Crazy MLB Free Agent Market So the signing and trading season is well underway in MLB. There have been a lot of big signings and trades and we haven't even hit hte deadline for when teams have to decide to offer arbitration to free agents yet. Overall, the 2006 free agent class sucks. There just isn't much talent out there and the best ones have age and/or health warning signs. The shocking thing is the amount of money being thrown around at the players this year: Konerko - 5yr/$60M, age 29. I think that at the minimum, Konerko will be worth the money for the first 2-3 seasons. After that, anything can happen. It's risky to be guaranteeing that kind of money to someone in their mid 30's. Scott Eyre - 3/11 Will be 36 at the end of the contract and has had exactly 3 good seasons in 8 years. Giles - 3/30 Will be 37!!! at the end of the deal. He's kept an exceptional OBP throughout his career but his OPS has been falling like a rock since he moved to SD. Loaiza - 3/21.4 Will be 36 at the end. Apparantly mediocre starting pitchers are worth 7M/yr now. BJ Ryan - 5/47m!!!11 Great pitcher, obscene money. Wagner - 4/43 Bad contract, will be 38 at the end of his contract. Still not signed: Hoffman - Wants 3 yrs and between 25-27M, he's 38 Burnett - Will probably get about $12M Has the health of an AIDS patient. I can't wait to see what happens after Dec 7th.

12-01-2005, 03:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I'll say this. As an Orioles fan who loves BJ Ryan, the Blue Jays will be strangled by that deal. He's good, but not nearly THAT good. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

12-02-2005, 02:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
Esen TFPer formaly known as Chauncey Location: North East	The scary part is if GM Manaya had his way thee Mets roster for 2006 would be: C Hernandez 1b Delgado 2b Soriano ss Reyes 3b Wright lf Manny Cf Beltran rf Ichiro 4th of Cliff Floyd and thats not even pitching included of course it is not going to happen but it gives you an I dea of the money teams are willing to spend to win (Im a Met fan btw) __________________ ~Esen What is everyone doing in my room?

12-03-2005, 02:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Look what HUGE spending did to Az. a World Series and then nothing. Having to trade away everyone, mortgaging the future for 1 year of success is not good. But neither is the Indians way of being cheap as Hell and saying they are going to rebuild from within. There has to be a middle ground and you have seen that in the Chisox, The Astros, the Braves, The Cards, and the class clubs that are in the pennant races year in and year out, with good attendence figures and high sales of their merchandise. The clubs that spend the huge money get bogged down by the contracts and end up losing more than they gain. The Indians were on the right track, until cheap ass dolan bought the team and puts no money into it. The Reds could be there but they suck at evaluating pitching. Milton? when they could have had Millwood. Ramon Ortiz? when they could have probably gotten someone a tad better for just a little bit more. Paying out big money for subpar relief pitching? They had the offense, and put the money into pitching they just sucked at who they went after. (BTW I love my Ohio teams..... just miss the 90's owners who knew how to put good teams on the field and asses in seats to keep the teams good and competitive.) __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

12-05-2005, 05:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
MontanaXVI Junkie Location: Go A's!!!!	Furcal to the Dodgers is big, what are the Braves thinking? Put Chipper back at SS? Farnsworth to the Yankees? I am not a Braves fan but just sitting back looking at it all, it is going to be a long season in Atlanta. Now for me being an A's fan I kinda like the idea of Frank Thomas in green, but can he stay healthy even as a DH to actually be worth anything? __________________ Spank you very much

12-01-2005, 03:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I will give Ryan credit though. He has excellent peripherals. Not much experience as a closer but that really doesn't matter.

12-02-2005, 09:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I don't think they have enough left over in their farm system to pick up Manny, Soriano, and still have enough left over to aquire pitching. Ichiro is plain unavailable. All I can say is that this better work for the Mets because it will take years to recover from these contracts and the damage they are doing to their current farm system if they fail. Delgado - 13.5, 14.5, 16M 06-08 16M option with 4M buyout in 09 Beltran - 12M 06; 18.5 (8.5 deferred) from 07 - 11 Pedro - 14M in 06, 07 (4M/yr deferred), 11.5M (2M deferred) in 08 Wagner - 10.5M 06 - 09 Soriano - 7.5M in 05, arb eligible next two? years will probably get 8.5-9 in 2006, 10M in 2007 Manny - 19, 18, 20 from 06-08 (4m/yr deferred) That's 50M to 4 players. If they get Soriano and Manny that is 76.5. I heard they are holding on to Heilman and Milledge in hopes of snagging Manny. Wow.

12-05-2005, 05:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Atlanta has this guy: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...-betemit.shtml and about ten guys who could in theory close, so I don't think they are losing sleep over Furcal or (especially) Farnsworth. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

12-05-2005, 05:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	With the Big Hurt I'd give him the "Juan Gone" type contract Cleveland used in 2001 and last year. That is bare minimum but heavily incentive laden. That way he controls his own destiny and has everything to gain for having a good year. 2001 it worked for us and Juan Gone, last year it didn't. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

12-06-2005, 09:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I wouldn't expect much from Betemit. He's turning 26 soon and last season was his first significant action. And Pan, yes the DBacks mortgaged the future ut they also won the division in 99, and 02 and finished above .500 in 03 (despite having lost RJ for basically the season and Schilling for nearly half of the season). The Schilling trade (however botched it was) was done with the intention of getting Sexson and the RJ trade was initiated by RJ, not the team as a salary dump. Those were the only trades involving high paid players. People look back on it as a spending spree followed by a fire sale but it wasn't that way. They started building that team almost right from the start by getting Bell, Miller and Williams right away, then RJ, Gonzo, Finley, and Womack the next year. They traded for Schilling in 2000 and signed Grace (for less than what he made in 2000) and Sanders as free agents in 01. People like to remember them as going from chumps to champs then back to chumps but it was NOT that way at all.

12-06-2005, 03:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	His wife is pretty hot. I think he is a respectable enough guy. I did not like the way AZ treated him in 2003. They tried to trade him for Larry Walker and when he excercised his NTC (citing his family) they DFA'ed him and he chose to retire afterwards. I guess its hard to feel bad for a guy who got paid $10M to do nothing but it's not how I saw him going out. I guess he didn't hold any hard feelings because he's now a part of the front office.

12-06-2005, 08:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I truly do not understand my Indians..... $7 MILLION/yr for 2 guaranteed and a third optional to a 35 year old Byrd? And $7 Million offered/year for 3 years to a 38 yr. old Trevor Hoffman? They are almost as bad as the REDS with pitchin see note afterward If I were the Tribe I'd have signed Millwood for the $10 Mill/4 yrs with a performance based optional 5th and 6th year easily. Then signed Wickman for 2 years with a performance based optional 3rd for maybe 3-4 million/year. Same amount of money going out, better pitchers signed. Plus, Dolan can no longer sing poverty as he just signed an extremely wealthy contract with TW Cable and WKYC to set up an Indians network and ticket sales are moving faster than they have in years. **** As for the REDS they want to trade Casey.... I can see that they are overloaded in the OF (move Dunn full time to 1st, then have JR. Pena and Kearns in the OF, freaking scary there...), they could use the money, they have a very strong offense with or without Casey and they desperately need good pitching..... but to trade him for straight up for Pit's Williams or for Bosux's Arroyo and a prospect??????? Are they freaking nuts???? Heyzeusfreakingcrisps, they should be able to get better pitching than that. Maybe thet'll trade Casey and with the money saved sign Millwood. Otherwise the trade of Casey was fireselling at its worst. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

12-07-2005, 02:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	Texas only wanted Trachsel for Sori?.. I'm sure the Mets would pull the trigger if they knew what to do with Kaz... Mets prolly wanna get Kaz, Floyd and whatnot for Manny.. and get Sori from Texas.. Benson for Affeldt and Macdougal I think will be a very good deal for the Mets, dump that salary and improve bullpen. I think Wagner'll hold up for at least 3 yrs... Hoffman, Wickman, Todd Jones, R.Hernandez and Clemens have shown me that with conditioning, pitchers, esp. relievers can be healthy and effective close to 40... BJ Ryan's deal was insane! highest paid reliever? Lidge, Gagne, MARIANO...yet Ryan had one yr as a closer,,, albeit a good one, that kind of money was unjustified... I kno Toronto wanted to make a statement and show that they wanted to spend.. but dumb spending will get you the Texas Rangers... __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!!

12-07-2005, 08:52 AM	#15 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Considering the market, the offer to Hoffman is very reasonable. Wagner and Ryan both got about $10M/yr. The Reds did get butraped on teh Casey trade but what are they going to do? Casey will make almost $9M next year and has a career OPS of .833, and that is very reliant on a high BA with lots of singles and not enough HRs. In some ways they are lucky to be rid of Casey (would you pay JT Snow $9M?). Williams may be nothing special but hes as good as anything they currently have.

12-07-2005, 12:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Comparison between Snow and Casey: Snow Year OPS+ Salary ($M) 2000 115 4.75 2001 103 5.75 2002 94 5.90 2003 112 6.85 2004 144 1.50 2005 88 2.00 Casey 2000 119 .400 2001 114 3.00 2002 78 4.00 2003 98 5.60 2004 142 6.80 2005 104 7.80 I don't think Casey is as good with the glove as Snow is. I hear the Reds are also sending cash. At first I also thought the Reds were getting screwed but when you consider the fact that even if they get $4M, they are still paying about $5M for a 1B (a power position) and he's only a little better than league average and they lost a good LH starter.

12-07-2005, 01:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	Loretta to the RedSox for Back up catcher mirrabelli.. hrm.. __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!! Last edited by thephuse; 12-07-2005 at 04:18 PM..

12-07-2005, 08:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Reports are that the Orioles have agreed to a deal with Ramon Hernandez, in addition to trading for LaTroy Hawkins, plus supposedly have the only offer out on Nomar Garciaparra. Sweet... __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

12-07-2005, 08:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
Jimellow Junkie	Alfonso Soriano traded to the Washington Nationals for for Brad Wilkerson, Termel Sledge, and a minor leaguer to be named later. Article can be found HERE. __________________ Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

12-07-2005, 10:15 PM	#20 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Well, no surprises here. Hoffman stays a Padre and the Indians sign Wick for a year. Which, Wicky is scary but he is good and I'm glad we kept him. But again we could have kept Millwood and while a 5 yr. contract is high for him, it still would have shown us fans Dolan truly wants to win. If I had been Wicky, I would have told the Indians to go to Hell first but he knew it wasn't personal. I would have liked to have seen a multiyear deal for him though because that means this time next year the Indians will be doing this all over again. The Indians were reportedly after Nomar, but haven't heard anything.... so congrats DJ if it's true Nomar I think has a good year or 2 left in him. I wouldn't mind see the Indians taking a chance on Piazza and putting him at 1B. I think in the A.L. He'll still have a lot to offer. I am very surprised Houston called Clemons old and didn't offer arbitration. Perhaps, he doesn't want to pitch and this will be an excuse not to, OR will put a big fire in his ass to have a great year and show Houston he could still pitch. Clemons at 43-44 will still probably be better than 75% of the rest of the starters out there. If he does play, I see him staying on an NL team or if he does pitch in the AL it will only be for the Rangers. This years surprise pitcher could be Jamey Wright. He could become a very good 5th Starter for a team and will be relatively cheap. If the Indians don't re-sign Elarton (and I think they will re-sign him), I see them going after him that wouldn't be the worst case scenario. Wright, could also make a good match with Cincy, Texas, Az. Fla. I could see Washburn becoming this year's Millwood, relatively cheap but has a great year for the team who signs him. I don't have much faith in Matt Morris. In Reds news it looks like they are trying to deal Dunn and Kearns, which Kearns could net them some good prospects but to trade Dunn, unless they sign a BIG name or the deal has a big name involved going to Cincy, the fans will revolt down there. Granted the Reds need pitching desperately, but getting rid of all your offense for pitching then throws out that balnce a team like the Reds need. They are a team loaded with potential All-Stars (especially if JR stays healthy again) Larue, Freel, Wily Mo, Eduardo Encarnacion, and a couple Starting pitchers that show potential to really start toughening with age like Hudson, Harang and Claussen even Matt Belisle can come into his own. IF Wilson, Milton and Williams can live up to their potential the pitching may surprise everyone. They may have the pitching they need but they also have question marks on every SP and that is not a great way to enter a season. But to trade away offense especially Dunn they better make sure they get an excellent return for their money. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-07-2005 at 10:19 PM..

12-08-2005, 08:43 AM	#21 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	DBacks got Estrada for Cormier and Villarreal (relief pitchers). Villarreal had one great year and has been continuously injured/ineffective since. Cormier is more like a AAAA pitcher. That said, you have to wonder when the Braves want any pitcher. Estrada's projections are pretty close to that of Hernandez. He's a switch hitter who hits much better from the left so it allows Snyder (only 24 or 25 and never played in AAA) to continue to develop. I like this trade. We still haven't traded Vazquez but that will come soon enough. They are also trying to trade Glaus, probably for pitching to replace Vazquez. Piazza - pass. If the stars align he could put up an OPS of .850 but that would still only make him average for a 1B. Worth a shot if a team has nothing better but they shouldn't pay more than about $4M for him

12-08-2005, 09:08 AM	#23 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	RSox also got Marte from Atl for Rentaria. Great deal.

12-08-2005, 11:59 AM	#26 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	The Reds got power hitting LF Womack and 900k from the Yankees. Analysts are still wondering why. Hopefully the prospects they traded aren't good enough to play anything more than September callup or they got robbed big time. Womack posted an OPS+ of 47 last season.

12-08-2005, 06:49 PM	#30 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	I dont understand the Renteria deal... Renteria had a pretty bad yr.. but he's still a premier SS... Marte's still just a prospect. And now they have Cora playin SS... eh? and the Sori deal... huh? Texas has more outfielders now.. and the Nats have 2 great 2B... dont get it. And now Tejada wants out of Baltimore... What?.. he didnt know what he was getting paid a lot for?.. He's the centerpiece of the team.. its not like the Orioles havent tried to get FA.. its just no one wants to go the Baltimore.. I guess he wants to go to a team that's already winning.. so he can win.. not help his own team win. As for my Yanks.. Its grimly lookin like Bubba'll be our CF next yr.. everyone's gone.. unless Damon goes down to 4yrs.. at which point im sure Boston'll take him.. bleg.. at least we gotta handful of avg~above avg pitchers in the rotation.. sigh.. At least the Red Sox made some bonehead moves to even the playing field a little.. Although trading away Manny would have been the ultimate bonehead move... Ortiz wouldnt be half as good w/o Manny... I thought the Red Sox had their team set, with improved pitching and the same offense... but now they have no SS, and replaced his bad with Loretta's.. maybe now they'll win w/ pitching.. Beckett IS very good.. altho clement, arroyo, wade miller and wakefield are just avg... __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!!

12-09-2005, 07:36 AM	#33 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'm not as sold on Beckett as everyone else seems to be. First of all, his K rate and HR rate (both of which are excellent) will go up just from the switch to the AL East. On top of that, you have the fact that his great ERA was so based on his performance in Fla. His home/road ERAs were about 2.47/4.31. Finally, he's had 4 seasons and he's never come close to 200 IP (injury risk). Overall, I highly doubt that he'll post better than a 4.25 ERA next season. Not bad, but not great either.

12-09-2005, 10:00 AM	#35 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'm not giving up on Prior yet but I'd like to see him put together 3 years of being injury free also. Fucking Cubs, they have a true HOF quality player and they had him average 110 P/GS at 22 and 23. Overall, I think Beckett will be a quality pitcher, solid #2 or #3 type, but not ace potential. His peripherals are excellent (extremely low HR rate, great K rate, descent BB rate) and even though they will all rise they won't kill him. Eventually he might be a true ace, the AL East is just so tough. There are so many great hitters there. Burnett is higher risk but I think he has much higher potential. I think health is his only quesiton. Aside from his BB's his peripheralls are just as good as Beckett's but his H/R splits aren't quite as drastic. As long as he's healthy (big question) I think he can put up an ERA in the mid to high 3's no problem. Soriano says he won't play the OF. Wake up, you suck at 2B! He has good reason not to, as a CF he'd still be great offensively but as a corner OF he's pretty average. I think Javy will have a nice rebound year. AZ's OF really hurt him, their OF defense was pathetic.

12-09-2005, 04:58 PM	#36 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	I dont really think losing Renteria is improving the team.. and altho it doesnt look like it now.. if they lose Manny.. their offense would be shot.. Atlho their staidum jsut helps them that much.. You bring up good points about Beckett and Burnett.. It'd be funny if the Yanks get Nomar... all three of the "big 3" SS's of the 90's. heh.. I think i remeber reading that that could happe n a few yrs back.. but didnt think it could... I think the Yanks rotatin of Unit, Moose, Chacon, Pavano, Wang/Wright/Small is very dependable, altho two would have to move to the bullpen.. altho i hope wright and pavano could go.. prolly wang and small are gonna end up goin to the bullpen due to their salaries.. sigh.. Yanks' team is solid from last yr.. they needed an upgrade at CF.. but looks like there's little chance of upgrading now.. since if the yrs go down, Damon is a Redsox, and the Yanks wont give him his 7yrs he wants.. __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!!

12-10-2005, 11:31 AM	#38 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'd like the Nomar signing if it was one year. I think he can still do it. Randy Johnson isn't done yet. He took some beatings in NY but he kept a descent K rate and finished with a 3.79 ERA. He'll never be the pitcher he was in AZ again but he'll pitch like that guy every now and then. I think you're selling Chacon short. He's a good pitcher. He pitched over his head in NY last season but he'll be able to have an ERA in the low 4's. That's good enough to win games for hte Yankees. They still have the bats they need and as long as their pitching can be average they have a shot at making the playoffs.

12-10-2005, 02:27 PM	#39 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	Yankees seem extremely beatable?.. please!.. haha I know the Yankees have always been a fearsome team, but your telling me a team with Arod, Jeter, Sheffield, Matsui not that fearsome?.. unless they make serious moves?... Toronoto scares you more?.. comon.. you cant be serious!.. and if Baltimore gets Dunn? haha... As good as Halladay is, as you said Burnett can be in for a rude awakening in the AL East... and their offense? Vernon Wells is good.. but... then.. Lyle Overbay!?.. Baltimore?.. talk about poor rotation.. lol.. and now with Tejada wanting out.. even if he stays, they have him and Javy.. and now Ramon Hernandez i guess.. Boston.. yes, they actually look very good this year.. but Schilling has yet to show me he has ever recovered from his ankle, and Beckett has his blisters and the whole AL East thing and weather issue you mentioned... Clement, Wade Miller, Wakefield.. arite.. I dont see great pitchers.. They had the amazing offense, and I think it'll be another very close year in the AL East.. but I still have to give my Yanks the edge... They've won in years past, and I think the Renteria move is a downgrade for their offense... Lowell's shown very sure signs of decline, and they'll miss Mueller's bat... They BETTER get Damon back.. or it could be a long season for RSN.. Just because the Yanks didnt make headline news doesnt mean theyve weakened,, They still have the All-Star calibur players we've had in past years.. I mean Giambi, Posada's shown decline, but I think Posada's got a few yrs left, and Giambi, if those numbers at the end were Steroid-free numbers (ehh.... i hope so?..) he'll give me good numbers.. up and coming Cano seems like he'll improve... So.. its CF... i mean even the Yanks cant have an All Star at every position .. Our rotation is better than you give credit, Randy really locked down at the end of the season and gave us good starts.. Moose is always iffy, but ive always liked him, he's solid... Wang, Chacon, Small, and Wright will put up good numbers... If Wright stays healthy, he's got potential, and I hope Pavano pulls his pay... And I've always liked Chacon, he pitched in Colorado, and I'm sure getting out of there helped him.. I think the Yanks are as good as any team in the AL... altho Chicago has still the best team to beat next yr .. after adding another good bat to their amazing arms.. (Why couldnt Contreras pitch in NY? ) __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!!

12-14-2005, 01:15 PM	#40 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	My DBacks traded Vazquez and cash to the WSox for El Dookie, Vizciano, and CF prospect Chris Young. Young is likely the centerpiece of the deal he was one of the Southern League's best OFs last year at only 21 and draws a lot of comparisons to Mike Cameron. I was hoping for something better than El Dookie but he could work out to some extent. Changing leagues may help him, esp since the NL West is a cesspool of suckage right now. He doesn't make much and has a stellar postseason record so if he has a descent 1st half he can be flipped for something nice before the deadline. The WSox get between 1-5M so they will owe Vazquez between 19-23M over the next two seasons. USCell is quite a pitcher's park so we'll have to see how Vazquez does next year. The Sox certainly have a much better OF defense than the DBacks did that that right there will help him a lot (our CF's last year were Cruz Jr and Shawn Green and runners took extra bases on Gonzo at will). With the money they will pay him it is a high risk/high reward situation for them. At the least, they are better off but Vazquez could be quite a bust if he has a repeat of the last couple seasons. Now the AZ rotation is: Webb Ortiz Hernandez and 2 of either Vargas, Halsey or Nippert That could be really bad. Webb is a fine #2 but he's no ace. He has a shot at being an ace if he can keep his walks down. I really hope Nippert cracks the rotation next season. His celing is just as high if not higher than Webb. Lots of K's, moderate BB, very low HR and low opponent BA. Like Webb he is the right type of pitcher to have in a place like Chase Field.