08-22-2005, 12:44 PM | #1 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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The most dominant sportsperson today...
What do you think?
Obv this question is kind of boased towards individual sports by its nature. I thought of a few people before I came to an answer: Tirunesh Dibaba - in the world champs she was just a completely different class to anyone else, and she is so young, I can easily see her winning everything in the next 6 to 8 years... cos basically if she is anywhere near the pace in the final 300 metres I dont think anyone can live with her. Michael Schumacher - He has been consistantly at the top of his sport for several years, and if he has an even close to competive car he is always gonna be odd's on. Tiger Woods - Again, I think he has been at the top of his sport for a long time, and i think he is the kind of player that if he hits form everyone else is playing for second, he is capable of playing rounds that no other golfer is capable of, and is consitently better than his peers even when he plays ordinary. But I decided on Roger Federer In the last couple of years, Federer has dominated tennis so much, he plays shots that only exist in the imagination of other players, but like the other people I listed, he combines brilliance with dedication, strength of character, a sense of fair play. In the last Wimbeldon final, there were a couple of moments when Roddick, a world class player with a massive serve, was just reduced to a bystander. I remember one game when Roddick was broken and it was just impossible for any player to have one that game... whatever Roddick would have done, because Federer just hit 4 brilliant winners from good Roddick shots... and then another point when Roddick hit a good heavy smash at Federer, and Roger somehow launches back a full speed forehand... and you could see Roddick just in disbelief, like "what can I do???" So... I chose Federer cos I think his level of ability is so far removed from anyone in tennis today, possibly anyone in history. Rod Laver said he considered it to be a huge honor for his name to be mentioned in the same breath as Federer. Compliments dont come much bigger than that.
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08-22-2005, 01:35 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Loser
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Tough call. In the end, I have to go with Schumacher. 7 World Driving Championships to his credit, where the next best has only 4 (Prost). The most dominant Grand Prix driver of this - or any - era.
As to Federer, he's phenomenal no doubt. But I don't think he's AS far above his peers as, say, Schumacher is above his (although that's changing fast). I'd like to see his win/loss records for the past few years before defintively comparing him to his peers. I would add Shaquille O'Neal to the list as well. |
08-22-2005, 01:47 PM | #3 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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2005 64 - 3
2004 70 - 5 2003 72 - 15 speaks for itself!
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08-22-2005, 02:01 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Psycho
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I think Lance Armstrong should be listed here, he competes in a long-distance race that requires being at least competent in a few different disciplines of cycling.
No one had ever won more than 5 tours before and he won 7. In a row.
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08-22-2005, 02:38 PM | #5 (permalink) | |
Loser
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I also strongly agree that Armstrong be in the running for most dominant athlete in the last 5-10 years. |
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08-22-2005, 03:42 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Atlanta, GA
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OK, I'll give you that Federer is a very good tennis player. He is astoundingly good. The man started out without a coach, for crying out loud, and I've never seen anyone who can modify his game so much in a single match, or even a single set. However, I wouldn't call him the most dominating player until he wins The French. When he completes the career grand slam (and that year he does stand a good chance of completing the grand slam), I would not say that he's bigger than Lance. The man competes (and has won every year since 1998) in a cometition that is 21 days of pure pain. I don't think there's any topping that.
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08-22-2005, 06:43 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Austin....Austin, Massachusetts
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well i dont believe that racing is a sport, to be called a sport it has to have athletes in it and i dont consider drivers athletes....but thats a whole nother story.....
and ive never heard of the first girl but what i gather from what you said she must be doing very well in mid distance running? feder i do agree is an amazing athlete in his sport and very dominant (especially versus andy roddick) tiger is iffy because im not 100% convinced that golf is a sport, i look at it as more of a hobby that people like tiger are good at....so ya and i also agree that lance should be on the list his feat of that many years in a row...but granted that is only 21 days compared to feder who competes every couple weeks it is a tough choice....
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08-22-2005, 08:10 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Winner
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Let's face it, if Federer was American, he would be almost everyone's top choice.
Lance Armstrong definitely deserves credit as well, but he doesn't do it year round like Federer does. He just has to bring it for a few weeks and it's over till next year. In any case, he's retired from cycling, so it's a moot point. |
08-23-2005, 03:44 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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I don't see that you can really include Schumacher given that this year he is in 3rd I think in the standings? If you'd asked a couple years ago, maybe. Even then, so much of a driver's success depends on his car - Ferrari for years had better machines, plain and simple. Put Schumacher in a car that runs 2 seconds a lap slower and he won't win squat.
Tiger has been great, but while he is back in form this year, the previous 2 it was Vijay Singh who has been the best golfer in the world - but no one knew because he's from Fiji instead of Florida. Armstrong has been the most dominant in his chosen sport and event.
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08-23-2005, 07:17 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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When he's healthy, it is Shaq no question in my opinion.
While other athletes have their moments, when Shaq is healthy he can dominate a game like no one else in the NBA. Currently, no one in football can be named the most dominant player in all of sports, many players make an impact, but even those that make incredible individual plays like Julius Peppers do not do it on a consistant enough basis. Federer has done very well in tennis, but it can also be argued that it was against sub-par competition, as the talent in male tennis has been dropping over the past few years. Woods has fallen off his pace for a while and has not been able to hold of Lefty or Vijay, so he's out. Schumacher would not be where he is without team Ferrari, if he was on another team he would not be nearly as dominant, and probably would not have all of his championships. Which leads back to Shaq, no matter what his team, as long as he is healthy enough to play, he will drag his team to the top of the list of NBA Championship contenders and will give them an extremely good chance of winning it all. No other big man in the sport for quite a while has been able to do that for his team. As for Lance Armstrong, it's winning the exact same event for 7 years that seems to be tailor made for him. He just stays near the top in order to take the lead in the mountains where he has a biological advantage (as discussed in a Discovery Channel special) and overall just does the same thing. So what? The Tour de France is not the only cycling event in the world, yet it's the only one we ever hear Lance winning. Yet since the Tour de France gives advantages to Lance he's able win 7 in a row and be crowned an international hero. It seems more equivilent to old school Nebraska football playing the best Division III school out there. The DIII school will have a chance in the beginning, but eventually Nebraska would just beat them into submission, running the ball up the gut and allowing the DIII team to do nothing on offense.
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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!" Last edited by BigGov; 08-23-2005 at 07:19 AM.. |
08-23-2005, 08:02 AM | #11 (permalink) | |
Loser
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08-23-2005, 08:31 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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But the cars from Ferrari have improved, allowing him to become so dominating. After he went to Ferrari, he didn't win the championship for 4 years. Once Ferrari started improving their cars so did Michael. This can also be seen through his teammate Rubens Barrichello who in the past few years as been a true Michael Schumacher fill-in. If Michael doesn't win the poll, well then, Rubens will step right in and snatch that up.
Michael Schumacher will NEVER be the sole reason for Ferrari's success. The engineers, crew chief, everyone that works on his car are just as much apart of his success. If they did not provide him with such a high quality automobile once they finally got themselves up to par, he would never win a single title. Until he tunes the car by himself, until he does all the pit stop work by himself, he will NEVER be the sole reason for Ferrari's success. The same goes for everyone in racing, the driver gets all the credit but without everyone making sure that machine runs the way the driver needs it, the driver would be no where.
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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!" |
08-23-2005, 08:55 AM | #13 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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You're not paying attention if you don't understand this.
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08-23-2005, 10:02 AM | #14 (permalink) | ||
Loser
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Look at Fisichella this year: his teammate - in the same car - is leading the series by 20 points. Fisichella is in 6th. Look at Montoya this year: his teammate - in the same car - is beating him by 30 points in the series. Great drivers win in lesser cars; lesser drivers don't necessarily win in great cars. |
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08-23-2005, 11:19 AM | #15 (permalink) |
Junkie
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Like it or not, racing is a team sport. Even if talent weighs heaviest, in my mind the fact that he is counting on SO many other people to do their jobs correctly, I think it precludes Schumacher from being included. Just my take on it.
I think I'd have to go with either Tiger Woods or Lance Armstrong. Look at Tiger's last several finishes. Look at his various streaks over the last several years. Most consecutive cuts, the Tiger Slam, even what he just did a couple of weeks ago coming storming back from way behind. He is dominant completely on his own like no other athlete I can think of in recent history. COMPLETELY on his own. He would be my first vote, followed by Lance Armstrong.
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08-24-2005, 07:00 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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You dismiss Armstrong for winning the exact same event 7 years running, yet Shaq gets props for consistently playing fairly well? I don't get how winning that many times should be downplayed.. and as for biological advantage, what about Shoq? he seems the epitomy of what you would want in a NBA center yet he only wins with another great player and a great coach (plus hos first title was becuase the Blazers blew a 20 point lead. In the 4th Quarter. Of the conference finals. On the road.) And i don't get the Nebraske-D3 comparison either, it's not as if they don't allow other elite riders in the Tour De France, it's just that Lance beat them 7 years straight.
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08-24-2005, 07:36 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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I'm saying the Tour de France is tailor made for Lance. It's his event because it's perfect for him, it plays perfectly to all of his strengths.
Shaq is a very unique physical specimen, yet there are numerous other big men throughout the NBA, yet no one else in the NBA can match their physical gifts with basketball talent as well as Shaq. Throughout the years he has improved in almost all aspects of his game with experience. He is put up against all other big men in the sport and yet he still finds a way to come out on top. Whenever a team "shuts down" Shaq, it's because they spent so much effort trying to take him out of the game they allowed his team to have an utterly rediculous amount of open shots. He doesn't win the championship every year, but then again it's rediculous for any team to win completely on the shoulders of one player in this day and age. The arguement for Shaq is any team he is on automatically becomes a true contender. The Magic, the Lakers, and the Heat. Where were the Magic without Shaq? no where. Where were they after Shaq? In the NBA Finals. Where are they now? Lottery central. Same goes for the Lakers, and odds are the same thing will happen to the Heat over the next few years.. He has been dominate throughout his career and is still domiinate today, no other player has had an effect like that in all of the major sports in the USA.
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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!" |
08-25-2005, 08:47 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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You think driving for BAR or Sauber Schumacher is going to be winning anything? Massa is nowhere in the points, next year he's driving for Ferrari, right? - how many more points do you think he'll get next year, even playing second fiddle to Schumacher? Of course he is very talented - there is simply no way of knowing exactly how good (or how he compares to Armstrong, Tiger, or any other dominant athlete) until all race crs are built equally, which just ain't gonna ever happen.
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08-25-2005, 08:40 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!" |
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08-26-2005, 07:29 AM | #22 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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I would go with Schumacher being the most dominant sportsman today.
He has set all-time records in his sport, unlike the others. Tiger hasn't matched Nicklaus' achievements, Armstrong is a one-trick pony, Federer hasn't won as many majors as Agassi or Sampras or McEnroe even. Last edited by powerclown; 08-26-2005 at 07:44 AM.. |
08-26-2005, 06:39 PM | #23 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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And as for Tiger, he has more Majors at this age Than Jack did. Also, how does Tiger not having as many wins as a (retired) legend affect his dominance today?
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08-26-2005, 07:45 PM | #24 (permalink) |
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Lance is a one trick pony because he it is the same event over virtually the same route every year. He does the exact same thing every year, not changing anything, while on the exact same course. If he was as dominant as everyone else listed in this topic he would win a very large amount of cycling events, and be the favorite to win every single one.
That is what is expected of Schumacher. That is what is expected of Tiger. That is what is expected of Shaq.
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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!" |
08-26-2005, 07:49 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Psycho
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Isn't that what sports is?
Does Jordan's legacy get diminished because he worked the same 94 feet for all those years, or Greyzky because he only played hockey? My point is this: with the exception of decathletes and maybe triathletes aren't all athletes one trick ponies? dogging lance for only racing the TDF in my mind is like dissing Shaq for not playing in a Euro league that is during the NBA offseason. Yes all the others listed here have longer seasons or whatnot, but the fact remains that Armstrong has dominated his sport for 7 years. And if you really want my opinion, Shaq is incredibly overrated.
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The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. Stephen King |
08-26-2005, 08:46 PM | #27 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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This would be akin to Schumacher focusing only on, say, the French Grand Prix. Which of course he doesn't, as he has won on just about every Grand Prix circuit in the world. |
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08-26-2005, 09:17 PM | #28 (permalink) |
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Basketball, Hockey, Football, Baseball, all are sports which involve players playing against other players, the same goes Soccer (Futbol), Rugby, Cricket. To a point, even darts and billiards. Cycling is a person against the clock. The emphasis on why Armstrong is not as dominant is because he races against the clock in the same event every year on virtually the same course with relatively no change in anything.
Shaq has to compete head to head with other atheletes, and throughout his career he has proven his dominance in taking every team he has been on to the NBA Finals. This includes playing against countless NBA greats, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutumbo (back in the original finger waving days), and new guys like Yao. He has to play directly against these people, not get from point A to point B faster than them every year. Gretzkey would be a very fine choice if it was this was posted 10 years ago. And Jordan should win outright if this topic was made 10 years ago.
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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!" |
08-27-2005, 03:53 AM | #29 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Didn't work. It's a purer measure of an athlete's ability to compete against a defined objective - a clock, a speed, a distance, a weight - than it is to compete against other athletes in a physical confrontation. If a b-ball player, for instance like Shaq, scores 60 points in a game, is it because he was so very "on" that night? Or is it because the opposing team didn't show up? Maybe that was the night Yao got introduced to Jack Daniels, y'know?
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08-27-2005, 03:56 AM | #30 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Basically, they are saying they are testing samples from 6 or 7 years ago. There is no "B" sample, as normal procedure dictates. And there is no way for Armstrong to defend himself nor is there any sanction cycling can place on him. It's a crock.
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08-27-2005, 11:52 AM | #31 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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Yo, some really good posts in here. I prolly should have considered Armstrong (although he has announced his retirement so maybe that's a get out clause)... I guess it's maybe partly cos Ive never followed cycling, but also to me it just seems a pure endurance effort, there is no real skill - just strength and stamina and heart.
I suppose someone could throw that back at me on Tirunesh Dibaba - cos distance running is pretty much a purely physical activity too. i suppose the difference I see - which may just be that I never watched Tour de France - is that cycling just seems almost like a test to destruction of the riders, just a endless endurance trial - while running does invole a degree of timing, and technique. But I would stand by Federer as my pick. I honestly believe he is the greatest player of his game in history... you kind of get the feeling he could walk into the Olympics and win a Gold in Squash or Badminton if he practised for a month beforehand. Yes, he still does need to conquer clay, but he is still a young guy. It's the way he dominates not only in terms of performance, but the imagination of the sport. Nowadays if Federer loses one match it is a huge shock... he plays shots that simply are not possible for other players. What he did to Roddick - a magnificent player, who can serve at 150 mph - at Wimbledon was just riduculous... Roddick played a good game, close to his best level and did nothing wrong, and Federer made him look like a boy at times. The only people I can think of in recent times who had the aura Federer does would be Tyson and Jordan, maybe for a couple of years Brian Lara - when he hit the 375 and the 501 in quick succession.
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08-27-2005, 11:52 AM | #32 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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Don't dismiss the fact that there were no safeguards present during the testing.. that we know of. The charges are bogus because of how and when they are made.
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The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. Stephen King |
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08-27-2005, 12:01 PM | #33 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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To use the same criteria Robert Horry could be considered the most dominant.. all of his teams have been to the fianls, and he has twice the number of titles as Shaq. Being on a team that reaches the Finals doesn't make you great. See Scott Skiles. Or Wally Walker. Or even Darko of the Pistons who has a ring, but i don't remember him even playing in the Finals.
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08-28-2005, 05:22 AM | #34 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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for me it would be hisham el geurrouj the 1500m and 5000m runner from morrocco, hes been dominant for the past decade being almost invincible since his disapointing 1996 atlanta olympics after falling and finishing 8th.
El Guerrouj later made up for it by winning four consecutive world titles in 1997, 1999, 2001, and 2003. he lost just once in 4 years between 1996 and 2000. hes the only middle distance runner to win the golden league, and the only athlete EVER to win it 3 times consecutively. he also won the athens olympics 1500 and 5000m gold medal double, a feat only 1 man 80 years earlier had done.
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08-28-2005, 06:38 AM | #35 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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El Guerrouj was a master. I remember when he won the 1500 at Athens and he just collapsed on the track weeping with joy.
What did you think of Tirunesh Dibaba in the World's?
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas Last edited by Strange Famous; 08-28-2005 at 06:40 AM.. |
08-28-2005, 06:40 AM | #36 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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In terms of pure dominance, you would also have to metion Yelena Isinbayeva - the greatest female pole vaulter of all time
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas |
08-28-2005, 07:23 AM | #37 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
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08-28-2005, 07:31 AM | #38 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
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Golf winners don't always wind up in the same foursome, either.
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08-28-2005, 07:57 AM | #39 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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I would LOVE to see Michelle Wie teeing off with Vijay Singh, and beating him over 18 holes
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas |
08-28-2005, 02:14 PM | #40 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Greenwood, Arkansas
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That said, it is better when there is a head-to-head battle, either stroke or match play. The effect of seeing a good shot executed or knowing the closest competitor just hit into the deep rough affects the choices more than reading the scoreboard as it changes after a hole is played.
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