Formula One (the F1 thread)
 

So we're now 2 races down, there are new rules, changing teams and well everything is slightly strange in the world of F1. Will this seasons finally mix things up, as it looks to be doing? and whats up with all the new rules, is really making the sport any better?

So whats eveyones thoughts on the last race? Will the Ferrari make its fight back or are Renualt now top dog?

This thread should be a place to discuss all things formula one, pre race, after race and anything else related. So please discuss...

Oh just to make it interesting i'm a Jensen Button fan, so lets hope that he'll do what he done last year but this time better. Not doing too well at the moment 2 retirements out of 2 races, poor show but it will make the next 17 races interesting.

I think the FIA are screwing F1 with their new engine and downforce rules. I hope it doesn't take a fatal accident for them to realise that the way to reduce speeds is to limit the engine output, and not fuck with the downforce.

I'm a Button fan as well however I thought it was poetic justice that both Honda engines blew in the opening laps considering they were new engines (BAR Honda kind of took advantage of the rules). Mercedes McLaren might be strong, Williams BMW looks improved. The Cosworth engnines have improved tremendously. Renault is hot, very hot. But the season will really begin when the 2005 Ferrari finally makes it on the track. Ferrari looks very mortal at this point. Kind of fun to see the grid all mixed up. And Paul Stoddard is a tool.

Looking forward to the USGP.

Well, after two races it seems that the rule changes have at least evened out the field. Michael Schumaker has not even been close to sniffing first place. There's still a long way to go, but it appears that the season will be competitive. Maybe Montoya was right when he said that Schumaker's dominance was more due to Ferrari's cars, than Michael himself. We'll just have to wait and see...

M. Schumacher won the F1 championship when he was with Benetton. I think Montoya needs to shut up until he wins one.

I think with the FIA babying down the sport it will be more upto the car, mainly the reliabilty and resistance to wear. Engines were built to last one race but now they have to last two, this simply ensures that mediocroty will triumph over excellence.

It's still too early to dismiss M Schumacher (but funny that Montoya does) at the moment, will be more interesting to see what he does with the new car. Hopefully he'll get that next race although it seems unlikely.

All the new rules certainly have mixed things up though. I'm still unsure of the engine rule to, i don't like the drivers having to hold back just to protect their engines.

Button fans!!!?? why? He is sooooo dull!
I have soft spot for DC cos he gets no attention from the UK press despite the fact that he has been the most consistent British driver ever.

This season looks like it could be interesting although there is still not enough overtaking! Good to see Ferrari not doing so well and also McLaren too, Ron Dennis is a bit of a twat. Reanult have a little of the old F1 flare about them so lets hope that they keep up their good form, also Red Bull for DC.

DC? This is his year. Or was it last year? Or the one before that? There have been so many. :lol: :D

Whatever was his year, i think we can say with some certainty that this will be his last. He may well be the most consistent driver in formula one he certainly has done anything spectaticular. However i do agree with him when he says that qualifying should change back to the old way. What was wrong with all the cars going out in the last 10 minutes all trying to get the best time, even if the first 50 minutes was shit TV. It's even crapper now than before, bring back old qualifying i say.

i agree i actually liked the slow 50 mins 'cos you got all the gossip and chat from the pits etc and then 10 mins of mental action!

i feel really sorry for dc. he has proven himself to be a great driver, especially on race day but he has never been in the right place at the right time...after mika left mclaren became shit just when dc might have been in the position to be their number one driver...

The thing I hate about the new rules, especially the tire and engine rules is that now drivers are afraid to push. Whether it is because their tires are spent or they want to save the engine they just won't be able to safely charge after one another. An F1 race used to be a series of 15 lap sprints everytime a driver got new tires, now it is an endurance event.

guess they didn't learn a thing from the NEXTEL circuit when they tried this in 93. They put more surface area on the rear spoiler and lowered the front air dam to slow down the cars on the superspeedways and all it did was bunch them up 3 wide all the way around the track.

word - gone are the flashes of brilliance, especially during qualifications.

Red Bull Racing is testing an American. His name is Scott Speed. No joke.

What a great name, he'll be the first american ever in formula one if he gets a drive, or was there another?

Mario and Michael Andretti. Danny Sullivan. Eddie Cheever. Phil Hill. Dan Gurney. Probably missing a few.......

Speed's good, he did it the right way. Raced in Europe.

sorry don't have a link to the original article - I copied this from another forum:

I think the best thing about Scott Speed is that he has worked his way up through the ranks in Europe. He won't go into F1 with the attitude that Michael Andretti had. Andretti had already had some success in America and didn't really feel the need to prove anything. Thus a lack luster F1 effort. Speed on the other hand seems very hungry. If he indeed makes it I will do anything I can to support him as long as he doesn't turn into a peckerhead.

It's official the F2005 will debut in Bahrain, i wonder what that will do for Ferrari's fortunes. Maybe Schumacher will put some effort into the race next weekend unlike last weekend where i'm sure he was just going through the formalities.

Linky

Any picks on who will win in Bahrain? More Peugot dominance? Brilliant debut for the F2005? What do you guys think?

No Montoya at Bahrain - broken scapula. Pedro de la Rosa will be in his place.

peugot is in formula one? ... no hehe think you mean renault.

Sorry guys, I get those French teams mixed up some times. I do mean Renault.

After qualifying one i'd put good money on Schumacher winning tomorrow, plus no montoya to knoch him off the course only engine failure will stop him. Should be good though if he starts behind the two Renults as they're bound to be off the line quicker, but i think that micheal will surpass them. Who knows i maybe wrong, but the new car is looking like it has some pace.

All in all looks like it will be a good race tomorrow.

Alonso for me

Alonso :thumbsup:

Cheers for de la Rosa, as well!

All in all a good race, shame about michael though, would have like to seen more of a battle for the front spot. Thought DC done well taking RB on the last lap, as he get paid per point probably best he did. Yet again Ferrari comes away with nothing, bet there are some unhappy people there today.

The FIA changed the rules to make a more exciting season by preventing one team ie Ferrari from dominating. What if all they have done is taken away Ferrari domination and given us Renault? Congrats to them for their success though.

What does everyone think of the 'breakaway' world championship that there are currently talks of, afterall every team bar Ferrari and possibily RBR are said to be in talks. Would they really breakaway from the official F1 to start their own championship or is it just a show to get more money out of bernie?

And which would you watch if they did and were shown at the same time? or would it be the end of old F1.

Not sure what to make of it. Can't imagine F1 splitting into. For all practical purposes Ferrari is F1. My money's on Bernie. Manufacturers eventually screw it up.

Now that was some racing, the ferrari was amazing to get up to second place. Best race i've seen for ages. Can't wait for the next race.

Hell of a race!!! Alonso didn't break under the pressure. He knew the Schumacher was faster and still was able to hold him off w/o blocking. Very impressive. Sometime tomorrow once Renault comes down from a well deserved high, Flavio will realize they need to step up their game considerably as those red cars are back and very fast. Had Schu not screwed up in Sunday quals the outcoume would have been very different. This is starting out to be a great season.

I just can't believe it, BUTTON and BAR BANNED for two races!!!!! Thats way to harsh in my opinion, take their points away, but ban them for 2 races means at least in my book not so much excitement in the next races. I know i'm a button fan but even if it was anyother driver, i'd still say take the points away, banning is way too much.

Just needed to vent my anger. Bloody FIA. who cares if he was slightly underweight.

From what I've heard, BAR was doing this all last year, as well. There's just no way to prove it now. The FIA was tipped off by at least one former BAR employee. Rumored to be David Richards!!! I wonder if F1 were fielding 24 cars each race, if the penalty would have been more severe. They were using a 'hidden' fuel tank that allowed the car to run underweight at various times during the race, but never at the end of the race. When the car was drained of fuel for post race inspection, the hidden tank was never drained. That is, until Imola when the FIA was on the look out for it. They 'hoovered' the fuel out of the tank. Clearly running under weight or longer between refueling would give the car and advantage. No wonder Jense wanted to get away from BAR at the end of last season.

http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/20...appendix_c.jpg

A joke...It's not like BAR was tearing it up in the meantime. It's one thing for BAR to be doing this and not getting any results; it'd be a bigger deal if, say, Ferrari was doing it. I'm pretty surprised though; I thought BAR had 2 drivers good enough that they didn't need to cheat to get results. Is the car really that bad? And what has happened to the charging, aggressive style that Sato was showing a year or 2 ago? I really thought he was going to be something special, a potential world champion even.

I was impressed with the race in Imola between Alonso & Schumacher. This has to have been the best F1 race in a looooong time. Reminded me of the Monaco GP years ago where Senna held off a faster Mansell lap after lap after lap, to take the win. Here's hoping for more of the same! :thumbsup:

Last year BAR was second in the constructor's championship which results in a huge monetary gain for the team. So maybe it wasn't all up to the drivers, if indeed BAR did this last year as rumored. No way to prove it, though.

I've just been passed another rumor that all the teams fuel tanks come from the same manufacturer. I'm not sure if they are all to the same spec, or if they are to different specs for different teams.

Too many rumors.

but two races!!! still too much, would be funny to find out that David Richards was the guy that tipped them off. Nice picture btw.

Be interesting to see this weekends race. Still would have been better with more cars, even if any points won by them weren't valid.

Yeah, the David Richards angle is way too funny! Wouldn't surprise me, he didn't leave on good terms. And when he was there it wasn't all rainbows and sunshine. I guess he can be 'difficult' :D

BTW - Mosely thinks BAR got off easy

Good point. 2 races is going to be quite an expensive punishment. They're lucky to still be in the series.

This just in: Minardi disqualified for the Season - Entire secondary fuel cell discovered...inside nosecone!! :p

BAR will not appeal. They must feel they don't have a shot at it. Also they estimate they will lose $19 million for the suspension. :eek:

That's a shit load of cash, they must be gutted.

But on a happier note it's race weekend and if it's anything like last weekend then it should be excellent. The only thing we're missing are the big crashes, but who knows what race day will bring. Have to say my money is going on michael this weekend, his sheer pace race would have been unbeatable had he started in the top 5 of the grid.

What are your thoughts Craven?

I'd love to see Alonso win at home. Would be spectacular. Other than that I just want a good race. And a safe one. Will be interesting to see how Montoya does. He's got to be sore from his 'tennis' accident and then he totally trashed the McLaren on Friday. Rubens also had to change an engine. Watch that red car eat up the field. Should be a good race.

BTW - here's Speed TV's explanation of what BAR did. Good video w/ Steve Matchett.

And here's BAR's submission to the FIA. All 103 pages!

Hi. Just stopping by from over at the NASCAR thread.

I do appreciate the great F1 cars and drivers and catch the races when possible. I just don't know F1 and international racing as well as I do the US racing circuits.

But I admire the engineering and the sharp look of F1 cars. They're the ultimate in racing in many ways.

As I get a bit more familiar with what's going on with Formula One, I'll stop in a bit more here.

Thanks for the good thread.

^ Please join us, and enjoy the various sights of the world as F1 travels across the globe. Though don't base you're F1 opinions on todays race, i thought it was a bit dull but guess after the last race it was to be expected.

I still think the race was the worse for not having BAR there (thanks for the vid link). Still waiting for michael to do something, can't believe he had two wheel failures, worse luck (this tyre changing rule should be scrapped, i like watching the wheels being changed). I only want him to win to keep it tight up at the top.

Must admit that i am looking forward to Monte-Carlo in two weeks. It is always the best race of the season.

I would love to go to Monte Carlo. Can't afford it but I can dream. This year's race will be decidedly different since Price Ranier has died recently. Am looking forward to the USGP, haven't missed one yet. The track layout is nothing special but being in the presence of these machines is quite an experience. If you only hear them on TV, you're in for quite a surprise when you hear them live.

I live in Melbourne and when the F1 race is on I can hear the cars from over 4 kilometres away.

Unfortunately I missed the Spanish GP, I had set my TiVo to record it as usual and for some reason it didnt :( I couldnt find a replay of it later in the day either.

Concerning the new rules, I am actually quite pleased to see the mixxed up field. Although I will heartily admit that Michael is probably the most talented and dominating driver of the generation and I will probably tell my grandchildren that I saw each of his world championships, I do prefer to see a mixxed up world championship.

I do like the aggregate qualifying better than the 1 lap wonder of that last year or two, more chaos can and will happen if conditions change. If they could find a happy medium of the aggregate times and the excitiment in that last 10 minutes of qualifying of old it would be a lot of fun to watch.

I'm perfectly fine with a engine lasting for two races, I would consider 1 tire change in the race at least though, going from 3 to 4 sets of tires per race down to 1 is quite a harsh change, let them change it once maximum.

Otherwise its been a good year, and its great to see McLaren back in the hunt, I've always been a big McLaren fan.


BTW, that page with the vids is great, I've bookmarked it.

I'm personally in Toronto, Canada, but my Aunt lives in a small village about 1 mile from Brackley where BAR, Jordan and other teams are located. Its about 5 miles from Silverstone Speedway and she can hear the cars as well.

I've not been to visit yet to go see a race, but I may do the trip next year with a few mates.

My favorite is also Monte Carlo, along with Spa and Montreal. Suzuka and Imola are also favorites. The new generation tracks (China, Bahrain, Indy, et al) are not so interesting in themselves, but it is interesting to see the brand new, high tech facilities at these modern tracks. The start/finish line structure and covered seating at the China track are quite impressive.

Qualifying is ok, but I prefer the low tanks, special qualifying engines, 3 lap tires, flat-out style. It's annoying how the rules change ever year. First it was V12s, then V10s, now I hear they are considering V8s. Maybe soon, inline four bangers lol. They don't know whether to speed up the cars, or slow them down, to have more interesting racing. I do like watching every car qualify, where before they would only televise the top guys.

I am/was(??) expecting a huge season for Fisichella in the Renault this year. He seems to have run into problems after winning in australia. I always thought he had great potential in a good car...

2 particularly enjoyable scenes from the last race:

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/...pa-xp-0733.jpg

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/...pa-xp-0736.jpg

I love it when 7x champions get flat tires. :p

^ nice pics. Quite funny that two tyres went.

I'm still liking old qualifying the manic few minutes at the end. Even if the first 50 minutes was of little interest.

I agree with Daval, allowing one tyre change would be an excellent idea and i'm sure schumi would agree.

I'm all for tyre changes, it makes the race more interesting. It allows for more strategy and watching the pit stops with tyre changes is always exciting.

At last they're axing qualifying on Sunday morning in favour of a single session on Saturday.

I miss qualifying today so won't be making any predictions on who will win, though i will say i think coulthard will do well.

The FIA are asking the fans opinions on the future of F1 and you can take the survey online. So hopefully next season will be better structured and they will stick with more of the rules.

survey link

and as with everything the FIA gets their hands on, it doesn't work..

Saw some of today's action. Schumacher the Lesser really had a big one. Tore the right side off. Juan Pablo is sent to the back of the pack for brake checking in practice causing a multi-car pile up. Jacques out qualifies Scuderia Ferrari???? WOW!!!

This thread needs revived. Monaco, great race. Nurburgring, great race. Kimi probably disagrees though. LOL

Webber needs to quit screwing up in races. Or Jensen will have his seat next year.

Yes, it was a cool race at Nürburgring but Ron Dennis has to stop whining and complaining about the Rules. It would have been perfectly legal for them to change Kimis tyre since it was clearly damaged:

"74) Quantity and type of tyres
[..] Unless a precautionary tyre change is necessary for clear and genuine safety reasons, only a punctured or damaged tyre may be changed during a race."

Just read that Montoya also had a flat spot as well as missing body parts from when Webber clouted him at T1. You're right about Dennis, he could have changed the tire in question and the FIA would have been fine with it. Might not have won but at least they would have gotten points.

I doubt Kimi would have been allowed to change the tire un-punished. I read an article (that of course I can't find), where Kimi states that he made the decision. He would basically have thrown the race, had he pitted and changed the tires. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. That's racing. That said, I disagree with the new tire regs. Rather have a bhp limit on the engines or some such. The Pit strategy/tire changes is such a crucial part of the sport. To me, far more crucial than building engines with marginally more power.

I'm somewhat surprised this season by the incredibly poor form being shown by Schumi. Alonso be rocking the circuits, though! Awesome to see some real competiion this season. And way to go Alonso keeping Schumi behind him a few weeks ago. Talk about icewater in his veins!!

Hadn't noticed this thread before. Excellent initiative! Can't wait to rant after the next race :D

I am just shocked as to what happened today. The pigheadedness shown by the FIA and Bernie Ecclestone is completely uncalled for. I am at a loss for words. However, I must say that if it's found out that Toyota screwed it up for everyone because they were running tire pressures too low, then I have a feeling that the wrath of God will be brought down upon them. This one set of tires per race rule has got to go, it's totally ridiculous and I knew that it would cause problems from day one, I just didn't envision something like this. I thought that the tire issue would cause someone to be hurt, not cause 14 of the 20 cars to pull out of the race. Idiotic. Completely idiotic. I'm glad I didn't go this year.

If Formula One wants to play games, I can find something else to do with my Sunday afternoons... NASCAR, old movies, mowing the lawn...

They've gotten the last of my money.

Finally i'm back to the board and have time to write a message, now to the last 2 races which i'm yet to comment on, bloody excellent.

I have little to say about todays race, i'm shocked that the problems were not resolved and it had to come to a little more than a country drive in the summer. What we saw today was not racing and proof if it was needed of how much in politics F1 has in it today.

I feel sorry for the people that went to see the race, the drivers and for formula one in america. Surely this will not aid the sports progress in the one market it needs to break to ensure even greater success. The question remains, will there be a race in america next year or was that it? I'll be honest and say i'm not a fan of the US gran prix at least in indie, i would have liked a brand new track or a city track - Vagas style. But for it to be the end of a american GP is not a good thing but i fear it may well be.

Someone please tell me who to blame, i'm tending towards the FIA, more power than sense.

Also should the other guys have raced? i'm split on this to, what a day for racing. I'm looking forwards to the fall out of this now, should be interesting.

Personally, I think Toyota fucked it up and since the other teams were finding problems (that they said were different and fixable) with their Michelin's which means Michelin investigated and got scared about the quality of their tyres. Therefore they couldn't guarantee their safety. My question is, why wait until Saturday to even think about maybe replacing them? Then Michelin brings in a new batch of tyres that they can guarantee the safety of. However, because the FIA is a giant cluster fuck, they won't budge on a goddamn thing and they only hurt themselves. If it is found out that Toyota had the tyre pressures unreasonably low and that caused them to have failures, then I hope to God they get banned. I think this will be the death of F1 in America, and I'm sad to see it, especially on a weekend where Scott Speed made his debut. I can't express in words how fucking angry I am. This is bullshit, and it needs to stop and the fans need to get their money back.

And ShoeMaker gets 10 points for this nonsense? That is a joke. He's now 3 points behind Raikkonen for second place in the standings. I don't know much about what exactly happened today, but the FIA has been taking F1 down the wrong road for years. Has it been brought up that Ferarri is behind this in any way?

Unless you can prove that Jean Todt went down Gasoline Alley and sabotaged all of the Michelin tyres, I think that's a really ignorant statement. For lack of a better word, it was a "race" it was sanctioned by the FIA and Bridgestone didn't have any problems, so they shouldn't have been penalized for Michelin fucking up. I blame both the FIA and Michelin, more so Michelin because they didn't bring the proper equipment. These guys could have run slower lap times, Barrichello had to retire at Malaysia because of tyre failure. But oh! That's just Ferrari, they deserve bad shit to happen to them because they're evil and run the world./sarcasm. It's on Michelin because they didn't bring the proper equipment and Bridgestone who had their shit together shouldn't be penalised.

I was just asking...I said I didn't know the specifics, and wasn't blaming anyone. I could give a shit in all honesty, as the racing in F1 for the last few years has been terrible, and I really don't care who wins or loses, besides Sato. I hope Sato runs over Alonso's foot in the pitlane and takes the title.

But you never know with ShoeMaker...he would do ANYTHING to win an 8th Championship, don't you think? ;)

Its Michelin's fault entirely. The oval track was resurfaced over the past year. In April there was an aborted Firestone (owned by Bridgestone) tire test. Aborted as the track was much to abrasive as well as other issues related to the repaving. The entire track was diamond ground to give it a perfectly level surface. I would assume the Bridgestone was tipped off my Firestone, hence their tires were OK.

BTW - I was there, stayed through to the end. A sad day for motorsports. Also sad to see so called fans throwing beer bottles and cans onto the track. Very low class.

The reprecussions of this will last for years. Peter Windsor insinuated it was as much political as anything. A result of the break away series. The only team to support F1 as is, is Ferrari. Ironcially, the other teams are all controlled by the engine manufacturers supporting the breakaway series are all on Michelins.

Michelin had 3 alternative to get the race underway, but chosed to blackmail FIA to change the layout of the circuit. Very bad move

US GP ruined by France ;)

I feel sorry for the fans - I truly do. They did nothing wrong. But neither did the guys at Bridgestone, nor the teams using their tyres. Now they're being persecuted as if they sold out the sport and the fans and all that other bullshit.

First, sorry to hear that you were there, i would have been so angry. What i want to know is, did you get your money back? will you get your money back? and i'm guessing the first you knew that there wouldn't be a 'race' was when all the teams pulled into the pits, what the hell did you think was going on? I know i would have been totally confused by it all.

I agree...95% Michelin's fault for bringing the faulty tires. The other 5% to the FIA for not putting in a damn chicane and having everyone race. But, they shouldn't of had to modify the track at all if Michelin hadn't of screwed up. OK, 98% Michelin's fault. :p

"In order to identify a product we know is capable of running at Indianapolis..."

Doh! Maybe those products should have made the trip across the Atlantic in the first place?

What a mess.

CM, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about this...

Why political? What breakaway series are you referring to?

The GPWC (Grand Prix World Chamionship)

there are the carmanufactors are mostly threathing Bernie Ecclestones company that have the commercial rights to F1, and the carmanufactor teams like mercedes, renault, bmw(so basicly all teams execpt ferrari, that have broken out of GPWC and signed with FIA when the other teams walked behind Ferraris back in last year in brazil) and so on whant more money from Bernie, and ofcourse he dosent whant to give away money... so therefor they almost blackmailing bernie and say that they are not in F1 if they dont get more money.

here you can read a little more
http://www.motorsm.com/motorsport/auto/F1/GPWC.asp

Here are some of Peter Windsor's comments from his appearance on WindTunnel last night. WT is a racing program on Speed TV.

Taken from a pay site I am registered on.

No word on reimbursement for the tickets. I doubt it that will occur. The track would have to issue a refund and its doubtful that they would if they still must pay F1 a sanction fee. The track has as much expenses this weekend as they would have incurred had all 20 cars started the race.

What should happen is Michelin issuing credits to each ticket holder for the amount of the tickets applied to a new tire pruchase. Even then, I'm not sure I would ever buy a Michelin, Goodrich or Uniroyal product (all manufactured by Michelin). Fully one third of Michelin's sales comes from the US. The bad PR associated with this will be immeasurable.

Not the first time I had a race cancelled. I booked flights and hotel room in Las Vegas in 2003 so I could drive to the Fontana CART race from LV. The southern California fires caused the race to be cancelled. I was left 'stranded' in Las Vegas. :thumbsup: I did get a full refund on those tickets, however I did spend a bunch on flights and hotels that I otherwise wouldn't have. On Sunday morning I was walking through the manufacturers compound with my brother and we both were pleasantly surprised by all the foreign fans in attendance, Asian, Indian, European and South American. Probably come Canadians also, but they blend in too well. ;) Those were the people that got royally screwed by Michelin. I only had a 2.5 hour drive and spent the night with some friends close to the track. Not a total loss to me.

Veeeery interesting...thanks for the links guys. It appears there is more here than meets the eye.

It is indeed very curious that Michelin only sent 2 drivers to test their tires for the conditions at Indy beforehand (I'm assuming they did these tests at Indy) So what conclusions did they come to from the tests? Did they know they weren't going to have the right compound for Indy? What I don't understand is why did teams participate in 4 full Practice sessions and a full Qualifying before deciding the tires were faulty. And what if Schumacher or Zonta were killed in their crashes because they had tires Michelin knew were faulty, based on prior testing? It's not entirely clear when Michelin knew the tires were bad - during testing before the race, after Practice, or after the crashes.

Peter Windsor makes some good points. But I disagree with his wet weather analogy. The rain is the rain, its an uncontrollable variable and you have the option to switch to perfectly functional wets. Drivers shouldn't be forced to race with faulty equipment.

As far as the Manufacturers vs. Eccelstone infighting, well, I think there is only one inevitable conclusion. The Manufacturers will end up running the show, as opposed to the smaller, less powerful, lower profile, one-off engineering companies such as Williams and McLaren who only manufacture Formula One chassis. It is after all car racing, so it seems logical that car makers should be in control. Yet, it took the creativity, showmanship and vision of Eccelstone to transform the series into what it is today, so he's not going to let go easily and maybe the manufacturers owe him something for providing them with such a huge international showcase for their brands.

As an aside, I ran into this:

gosh! thanks :icare:

I was watching the race in confusion (around lap 49) and then with mounting indignation. What a load.

It was at Barcelona. Go figure! :hmm: :crazy: :confused:

what do u think of this, is it that bad? or can F1 comeback,

hopefully not in Indy becasue its a terrible track for F1, but usa have a bunch of other tracks that would be better for F1

I think the author of that article is too far over board. A knee jerk reaction from someone that doesn't understand the politics surrounding Michelin's refusal to race. Its not as simple as he stated it. F1 (the organization, FIA) is not to be blamed here, they are not the bad guys (for a change). Its Michelin, pure and simple.

Yes, Indy is a lousy track but there are none that have the physical structure requirements that F1 mandates, such as F1 garages connected to the pit lane, etc. Indy has always had garages but those weren't at F1 specs, so knew ones were built for exclusve use by F1. Its doubtful that IMS has recouped their cost of creating the cicuit for F1. And even more doubtful that other tracks will want to invest the same amount after yesterday.

I think F1 can comeback, it just needs to be in an appropriate venue. I enjoy watching oval track racing, I enjoy watching road racing, I don't enjoy watching cars race on a bastardized road coarse carved out of an oval track. F1 should run at Watkins Glen again if ISC spent the money to update the facilities to current F1 requirements.

That guy who wrote the article is off his rocker. This was a bizarre, once-in-a-decade type thing. No need to bash F1 as a series, there are millions of F1 fans in the States. Be nice if there were 1 decent American F1 driver, but I digress.

"The most hallowed racing circuit in the world?"
The oldest maybe, but not the most hallowed. And it's not a 'circuit' its an oval.

crazybill5280 said it:
"I don't enjoy watching cars race on a bastardized road coarse carved out of an oval track."

Everybody knows that Indy is an oval course, not a freaking road course. To have the United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis is ridiculous. It's like having a hydroplane race in a swimming pool. It belongs at Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca or Road America.

Maybe Eccelstone should leave sooner rather than later. :lol:

Hehe...how's that for R&D. :lol:

*note to self: never buy michelin tires for car.

great to hear that it dosent are completly over, tru that there are few circuits that are going to raise the circuit saftey after this, but maybe, MotoGP are to Laguna Seca and because of that they have upgraded that track safety... how much idont know, but maybe there are a chance there

soon hopefully you will have Scott Speed in F1 :thumbsup: the driver with the coolest name of all F1 drivers :D :)

Michelin's post race interview video :D

BTW - you can drop them a note and let them know how you feel about their actions

In a way, I feel sorry for those poor bastards at Michelin - I mean this is going to hurt them for a long time to come. OK maybe I dont feel sorry for them...the bastards. I hope Bernie chews their asses out good and proper at this upcoming meeting though.

Yes the FIA is not to blame. I don't think Michelen had any other option open to them though? That having been said, I still don't like the new rules regarding tires.

The FIA offered several options to Michelin, but they refused them all.
1. run slower speeds through T13
2. change tires during the race - will be penalized
3. use a harder compound - each team has the choice of a hard and a soft compound. It is not known if Michelin even had a second compound at the race. Had they used a harder compound, they would have ran slower. But still ran.

The FIA had previously warned Michelin about concerns it had over the longevity of its tires. Michelin was on notice.

some corrections at #2 they could change the left right tyre with the subject safety... without them being penalized, they was only being penalized if they change the tyre to a comletly dirrent tyre that they havent beiing inspected by the FIA before the race.

FIA would normaly need the cuircuit to be aproved 90 days before the Grand Prix start...




if thera are anyone who is not beliving that FIA och Ferrari and bridgestone teams are not gulity in this question. read this http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press..._Sport/f1.html

Michelin yesterday indicated it would reimburse the cost of the race tickets for ill fated 2005 race and donate 20,000 tickets for the 2006 race. No details on either were given. Big props to Michelin for standing up and doing the right thing. It was their error.

The FIA has ruled today and found the teams guilty on some of the charges, penalty to be determined in Sept. Rumors were flying that if the penalty was too sever the 7 teams would boycott Magny Cours. This effectively delays that from happening until later in the season.

Looks like you should also get your money back, be nice if you get a freebie for next year, if it all still goes ahead that is.

After todays race, i feel that racing is back, ganted not the most interesting race but at least it was a race, which was nice. I so looking forward to the british GP next week, just wish i could have afforded the ticket at the time, but hopefully i should be gainfully employed this time next year and thus will have the money. All things said and done next week looks to be building up to be an excellent race, i'm hoping the british weather will add to the excitement.

Nice to see michael coming up the table in points, will be good to have a 3 way battle by the end of the season.

One more thing i want to discuss is the BMW Williams situation, i happy that BMW are forming a works team, i think this will be excellent and push yet another team to the fight for the front of the grid. But what of Williams, i sure they will no longer use the BMW engine but where will they get a new one from, any thoughts? will someone from outside F1 come to their aid, Aston Martin engine would be cool.

superiorrain are you attending the British GP at Silverstone this weekend?

Regardless, I hope for a quiet and uneventful race, the only action should be on the track. I attended the first USGP just weeks following 9-11 without a concern. Life must go on.

Life does indeed go on, but the tickets sold out in such a quick time this year that i had no chance of getting any. However the TV is on and race day is here. I'm so excited, always something special about the home GP and that Button is on the front row with what looks like a nice package, so here's hoping...

This should be one hell of a race.

Well, JPM had a hell of a race, that's for sure. What a start!!! And Kimi had a nice charge through the pack. McLaren owned today.

Kimi certainly done a nice nice job, how the heck does he keep on doing it, 2 times now starting towards the middel of the grid and twice get up there. Good drive for him for sure, would be nice if he showed some emotion though. Shame about Button but i'll keep living in hope.

Silverstone is the 3rd most highly rated track according to the recent FIA survey, some what suprising for a race that struggles every year to be put on the list.

I love Silverstone, it always produces a decent race. Unlike the Tilke designed tracks that are better suited for go karts.

Don't worry, it's gonna happen. One day Jenson Button will be world champion! :)
And looks like he'll have a better chance to win a race next season, if the speculation about him replacing Barrichello at Ferrari is true