Formula One (the F1 thread)

[Spendrups]

F1 disgraces Indy, disrespects few American fans it still has

On Sunday, in front of the racing world, Formula One spit in the face of the small group of American supporters it had left.

As a Hoosier, an American and a racing fan, I'm as outraged as they come.

Thanks to a tire concern few Americans will ever give two hoots about, the glorious United States Grand Prix was a race of six cars. Twenty cars were supposed to run, but 14 refused to race.

What was the problem, exactly?

Michelin didn't come prepared? Turn 13 wasn't safe, or slow, enough? The Federation wouldn't allow a chicane? Sanction this, sanction that?

Whatever!

Americans, including this one, couldn't care less.

Your tires weren't ready. We understand, but we still don't care.

Excuses are what we expect from disgruntled employees and worthless uncles, not from a multi-million dollar industry that fans pay hundreds of dollars to watch. To be unprepared is unacceptable.

Simply put, American's don't want your excuses, or your problems. They wanted a race.

America's attention is powered competition. Americans all insist on value for their money. Perhaps most importantly in this case - especially in Indiana - Americans demand a respect for the most hollowed racing circuit in the world.

Sunday, the United States Grand Prix provided none of it.

The only thing it provided was an uppity attitude - the same one the preppy kid carried in high school that got him shoved in a locker.

Great job F1, now you've done it. You've finally figured out how to capture the intrigue of the biggest market in the world. Only problem is the intrigue is on the wrong side of the spectrum.

Rather than be excited next year for the race, Americans will laugh at the suggestion that it even be called a race.

You want a race, call Danica Patrick, Dan Wheldon and the rest of the 2005 Indianapolis 500 field and start taking notes. You want a race, call NASCAR, where the good old boys laugh in the face of tire wear.

Hell, you want a race, call the local YMCA Kid's Mini Marathon organizers and they'll provide a more entertaining show than the crap you called the U.S. Grand Prix.

So what's next for the USGP?

Hopefully nothing.

The only possible positive thing that can, and should, come out of this debacle is a lifelong ban of Formula One at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It was a kingdom built by milk drinking and brick crossing, not flag waving and temper tantrums.

Joie Chitwood, president and chief operating officer at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was asked after the race if the damage done on Sunday was repairable.

"I hope it is. I'm not sure; I hope it is," he said.

If the Speedway intends to save face, it should never again allow the faces of Formula One near the Speedway.

F1 claims the best - fastest and most technological - racing in the world.

Fine. Keep it.

Just keep it out of America. And please keep it out of Indianapolis, forever.

Greg Fallon is a sports columnist for The Star Press.

http://www.thestarpress.com/articles...-7343-006.html

what do u think of this, is it that bad? or can F1 comeback,

hopefully not in Indy becasue its a terrible track for F1, but usa have a bunch of other tracks that would be better for F1

[Craven Morehead]

I think the author of that article is too far over board. A knee jerk reaction from someone that doesn't understand the politics surrounding Michelin's refusal to race. Its not as simple as he stated it. F1 (the organization, FIA) is not to be blamed here, they are not the bad guys (for a change). Its Michelin, pure and simple.

Yes, Indy is a lousy track but there are none that have the physical structure requirements that F1 mandates, such as F1 garages connected to the pit lane, etc. Indy has always had garages but those weren't at F1 specs, so knew ones were built for exclusve use by F1. Its doubtful that IMS has recouped their cost of creating the cicuit for F1. And even more doubtful that other tracks will want to invest the same amount after yesterday.

[laconic1]

I think F1 can comeback, it just needs to be in an appropriate venue. I enjoy watching oval track racing, I enjoy watching road racing, I don't enjoy watching cars race on a bastardized road coarse carved out of an oval track. F1 should run at Watkins Glen again if ISC spent the money to update the facilities to current F1 requirements.

[powerclown]

That guy who wrote the article is off his rocker. This was a bizarre, once-in-a-decade type thing. No need to bash F1 as a series, there are millions of F1 fans in the States. Be nice if there were 1 decent American F1 driver, but I digress.

"The most hallowed racing circuit in the world?"
The oldest maybe, but not the most hallowed. And it's not a 'circuit' its an oval.

crazybill5280 said it:
"I don't enjoy watching cars race on a bastardized road coarse carved out of an oval track."

Everybody knows that Indy is an oval course, not a freaking road course. To have the United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis is ridiculous. It's like having a hydroplane race in a swimming pool. It belongs at Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca or Road America.

Maybe Eccelstone should leave sooner rather than later.

[powerclown]

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead

It was at Barcelona. Go figure!

Hehe...how's that for R&D.

*note to self: never buy michelin tires for car.

[Spendrups]

great to hear that it dosent are completly over, tru that there are few circuits that are going to raise the circuit saftey after this, but maybe, MotoGP are to Laguna Seca and because of that they have upgraded that track safety... how much idont know, but maybe there are a chance there

[Spendrups]

Originally Posted by powerclown

That guy who wrote the article is off his rocker. This was a bizarre, once-in-a-decade type thing. No need to bash F1 as a series, there are millions of F1 fans in the States. Be nice if there were 1 decent American F1 driver, but I digress.

soon hopefully you will have Scott Speed in F1 the driver with the coolest name of all F1 drivers

[Craven Morehead]

Michelin's post race interview video

BTW - you can drop them a note and let them know how you feel about their actions

[healer]

In a way, I feel sorry for those poor bastards at Michelin - I mean this is going to hurt them for a long time to come. OK maybe I dont feel sorry for them...the bastards. I hope Bernie chews their asses out good and proper at this upcoming meeting though.

[aKula]

Yes the FIA is not to blame. I don't think Michelen had any other option open to them though? That having been said, I still don't like the new rules regarding tires.

[Craven Morehead]

Originally Posted by aKula

Yes the FIA is not to blame. I don't think Michelen had any other option open to them though? That having been said, I still don't like the new rules regarding tires.

The FIA offered several options to Michelin, but they refused them all.
1. run slower speeds through T13
2. change tires during the race - will be penalized
3. use a harder compound - each team has the choice of a hard and a soft compound. It is not known if Michelin even had a second compound at the race. Had they used a harder compound, they would have ran slower. But still ran.

The FIA had previously warned Michelin about concerns it had over the longevity of its tires. Michelin was on notice.

[Spendrups]

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead

The FIA offered several options to Michelin, but they refused them all.
1. run slower speeds through T13
2. change tires during the race - will be penalized
3. use a harder compound - each team has the choice of a hard and a soft compound. It is not known if Michelin even had a second compound at the race. Had they used a harder compound, they would have ran slower. But still ran.

The FIA had previously warned Michelin about concerns it had over the longevity of its tires. Michelin was on notice.

some corrections at #2 they could change the left right tyre with the subject safety... without them being penalized, they was only being penalized if they change the tyre to a comletly dirrent tyre that they havent beiing inspected by the FIA before the race.

FIA would normaly need the cuircuit to be aproved 90 days before the Grand Prix start...

As explained in our earlier letter, your teams have a choice of running more slowly in Turn 12/13, running a tyre not used in qualifying (which would attract a penalty) or repeatedly changing a tyre (subject to valid safety reasons).

It is for them to decide. We have nothing to add.

if thera are anyone who is not beliving that FIA och Ferrari and bridgestone teams are not gulity in this question. read this http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press..._Sport/f1.html

[Craven Morehead]

Michelin yesterday indicated it would reimburse the cost of the race tickets for ill fated 2005 race and donate 20,000 tickets for the 2006 race. No details on either were given. Big props to Michelin for standing up and doing the right thing. It was their error.

The FIA has ruled today and found the teams guilty on some of the charges, penalty to be determined in Sept. Rumors were flying that if the penalty was too sever the 7 teams would boycott Magny Cours. This effectively delays that from happening until later in the season.

[superiorrain]

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead

Michelin yesterday indicated it would reimburse the cost of the race tickets for ill fated 2005 race and donate 20,000 tickets for the 2006 race. No details on either were given. Big props to Michelin for standing up and doing the right thing. It was their error.

Looks like you should also get your money back, be nice if you get a freebie for next year, if it all still goes ahead that is.

After todays race, i feel that racing is back, ganted not the most interesting race but at least it was a race, which was nice. I so looking forward to the british GP next week, just wish i could have afforded the ticket at the time, but hopefully i should be gainfully employed this time next year and thus will have the money. All things said and done next week looks to be building up to be an excellent race, i'm hoping the british weather will add to the excitement.

Nice to see michael coming up the table in points, will be good to have a 3 way battle by the end of the season.

One more thing i want to discuss is the BMW Williams situation, i happy that BMW are forming a works team, i think this will be excellent and push yet another team to the fight for the front of the grid. But what of Williams, i sure they will no longer use the BMW engine but where will they get a new one from, any thoughts? will someone from outside F1 come to their aid, Aston Martin engine would be cool.

[Craven Morehead]

superiorrain are you attending the British GP at Silverstone this weekend?

Regardless, I hope for a quiet and uneventful race, the only action should be on the track. I attended the first USGP just weeks following 9-11 without a concern. Life must go on.

[superiorrain]

Life does indeed go on, but the tickets sold out in such a quick time this year that i had no chance of getting any. However the TV is on and race day is here. I'm so excited, always something special about the home GP and that Button is on the front row with what looks like a nice package, so here's hoping...

This should be one hell of a race.

[Craven Morehead]

Well, JPM had a hell of a race, that's for sure. What a start!!! And Kimi had a nice charge through the pack. McLaren owned today.

[superiorrain]

Kimi certainly done a nice nice job, how the heck does he keep on doing it, 2 times now starting towards the middel of the grid and twice get up there. Good drive for him for sure, would be nice if he showed some emotion though. Shame about Button but i'll keep living in hope.

Silverstone is the 3rd most highly rated track according to the recent FIA survey, some what suprising for a race that struggles every year to be put on the list.

[Craven Morehead]

I love Silverstone, it always produces a decent race. Unlike the Tilke designed tracks that are better suited for go karts.

[djflish]

Originally Posted by superiorrain

Shame about Button but i'll keep living in hope.

Don't worry, it's gonna happen. One day Jenson Button will be world champion!
And looks like he'll have a better chance to win a race next season, if the speculation about him replacing Barrichello at Ferrari is true

[Craven Morehead]

For all you Button fans, this is an interesting rumor I just picked up off a pay site I'm on.

07/12/05 BAR offer Honda engines to Williams to keep Button BAR are set to offer the struggling Williams team a supply of Honda engines, but only if the Grove outfit drop their claim on Jenson Button.

The deal offered will see Williams supplied with Honda engines for 2006 to the same specification as those bolted on to the back of the BAR 008. However, Williams, currently supplied with engines by BMW, will have to relinquish all rights to Jenson Button.

A Honda engine deal would be worth in the region of $15 million, but BAR are prepared to spend far more than that to keep hold of Jenson. On top of the costs and logistical problems of an extra engine supply, the team are also ready to offer Jenson a $50 million contract over the next five years, propelling the Englishman to the top three earners in the sport.

[castex]

i'd love to see williams-honda return to bite bmw on the bum.

[djflish]

Williams have been a real let down ever since Damon Hill left.
And I think Michelin have said they are giving every spectator at the US Grand Prix a full refund.

[superiorrain]

After missing from the board i see that this thread was only a partial success, somewhat like Renault's Alonso. Won the champtionship but the constructors is still very much up for grabs. Alot has happened since i last posted and while i won't do a season run down yet i'd say it has had its highs and lows but damn it has been good. Here's hoping for a nice japanese race and i'm still holding out for the Button win. Not likely to happen, yet what a great place to do it if they do.

I'll be back for pre race predictions after qualifying, in the hope to revive this thread before then end of the season. So that next season (reportedly going to be the even longer) this thread hits the ground running. I'll even try and started it a week or two before then we can all make pre season predictions.

Happy racing till next race weekend.

[Craven Morehead]

^ glad you're back. Kind of lost interest in this thread but not the season.

Its been fun and kind of quirky.

[powerclown]

I've also enjoyed this season quite a bit.

Imola, Istanbul and Spa stand out as races.
Unfortunate to see Sato languish. I thought he would do better.

First time in a loooong time there were 3 contenders for the driving championship. If it weren't for bad luck, Montoya and Raikkonen would have given Alonso a good run. Good to see Montoya come on so strong at the end of the season after injury, and very happy to see McLaren back at the front.

2006 should be even better.

[Craven Morehead]

Announced today that Honda bought BAR.

[superiorrain]

Honda bought BAR. That's great news, best news i heard all day and i heard it here. Thanks Craven, it is also nice to be back.

Powerclown - it is a shame about Sato, but i still think he done well, not sure if he will get a drive next season. I hope he does but looks unlikely at the moment. If you know something i don't then please share, or give a random prediction of a team.

BMW going solo from williams should also make next season interesting.

[powerclown]

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead

Announced today that Honda bought BAR.

Interesting.

I guess this explains why Jenson Button was so insistent on staying with BAR? I've always liked Honda as a company ever since the days of Ayrton Senna driving a Lotus-Honda, plus I think their road cars are outstanding, having owned 4 of them.

So, will the 06 car be called a Honda, a Honda-BAR, or a BAR-Honda???

What do you guys think about this?

[powerclown]

Originally Posted by superiorrain

BMW going solo from williams should also make next season interesting.

Yes, Williams is s-c-r-e-w-e-d, but after a season like this one, can it really get any worse for them? Sad.

Prediction for Sato or Suzuka?

I thought I read that Sato was going to become a test driver for BAR...errr..Honda. In other words, I think his F1 career is over, unfortunately. I think they're wasting the seat on Barrichello.

As for Suzuka, I'm going with Montoya for the win.

[superiorrain]

HONDA LINKED TO MYSTERY NEW TEAM
Last Updated: Tuesday, 04, October, 2005, 15:11 www.itv.com/f1

A mystery 11th team could be set to enter the Formula 1 fray with a supply of Honda engines in 2006.

It is unclear who is behind the new outfit but Japanese driver Takuma Sato, who has been replaced in the BAR-Honda squad by Rubens Barrichello in 2006, told Reuters he had been contacted about driving for the team next year.

"It's not confirmed that this new team will race but I have received an offer," he said.

"I'm not planning to quit Formula 1. I have to keep going and look for a solution."

Honda has supported Sato throughout his Formula 1 career and has made noises in recent weeks that it intends to continue backing the driver despite him not being a part of its new works team's driver line-up.

At Tuesday's announcement in Tokyo, Honda operating officer Hiroshi Oshima confirmed that the Japanese company is considering supplying engines to the mystery team.

"Nothing has been decided yet as far as drivers or engines go," he said.

"But Bernie Ecclestone has given the team his blessing and we are looking into the possibility of supplying their engines."

The team is not thought to have any previous experience of F1, but whoever it is would need to have the wherewithal to design, or at least buy the intellectual rights to, construct and run a fleet of new chassis in four months.

The news is also good for Britain's Anthony Davidson, who has been a BAR-Honda test driver for the last three years and is actively searching for a race seat in 2006.

Sounds and interesting propect, in my mind this smells like the work of Eddie Irvine and his Russian connection.

Looking at the Honda BAR take over, I think that they will be known as Honda and only Honda. I understand that they have bought out BAR so therefore own 100% of the company, no need to share the name.

[powerclown]

Maybe I spoke too soon. Sato to drive for Honda's '2nd' F1 team makes sense.

Anthony Davidson in the 2nd seat...not a shabby team at all.

[powerclown]

I wonder if Honda is re-thinking their interest iin Sato after his miserable performance at home in Suzuka. Real disappointing - I really thought Sato would turn out to be the best Japanese driver ever in F1.

Too bad Villeneuve had to run Montoya off the road so early in the race. Not the brightest guy, Villeneuve.

What can you say about Raikkonen? What a race for this guy. I see him as the fastest guy out there, bar none. All he needs is a reliable car, and he could be WC for the next 5 years. I also enjoyed Alonso passing ShoeMaker on the OUTSIDE of the 130-R turn, at what, 180mph? That was great.

[Strange Famous]

Sato is a maniac!

Alonso is a special driver.... I first noticed him in his first season when Schumacher (at the time the unquestioned master) lapped him, and he had the audacity to unlap himself.

Kimmi is a great driver, but give him and Alonso the same pace, and Alonso is a better driver in my opinion. It isnt a coincidence that Alsono has the most reliable car in F1

Its just good for the whole sport though, to have two genuine young stars coming though, to be fighting for glory for many years to come... and dont think we've seen the last of Schumacher either. I think the great one might have one more championship in him, for the sake of his pride.

[powerclown]

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Its just good for the whole sport though, to have two genuine young stars coming though, to be fighting for glory for many years to come... and dont think we've seen the last of Schumacher either. I think the great one might have one more championship in him, for the sake of his pride.

Yep, I agree - it's good for the sport. Don't forget Montoya in that group as well. He would have been in the championship this year had it not been for his injury. 3 wins this year for Montoya. As for ShoeMaker, I see a rocking chair, a dishwasher, and a house of screaming kids in his future.

---

Poor Sato-san:

"Sato disqualified from Japanese Grand Prix..."

Takuma Sato was disqualified from the Japanese Grand Prix being blamed for a collision with Jarno Trulli's Toyota on the tenth lap of the race. Trulli retired on the spot with substantial damage to the left hand side of his TF105B while Sato was able to continue and finish the race in 13th position, a lap down. His result was later thrown out of the results by the race stewards.

"The stewards viewed the video of the incident and presented the same to Takuma Sato and his team manager Ron Meadows and independently to Jarno Trulli and his team manager Richard Cregan," the FIA said in a statement. "Having heard both parties the stewards independently conclude that Takuma Sato was involved in an incident forcing the driver of car number 16 off the track and therefore order Sato be excluded from the results."

The latest incident angered Trulli and the Italian said: "Sato tried a manoeuvre that was obviously impossible, he just tried to overtake me but instead he hit me and pushed me off. There was no reason to try that move so I don't know what he was thinking. He's been causing problems for a long time and the FIA has to take action to stop it."

Too funny.

[superiorrain]

Excellent race. I agree that Sato will find it difficult to find a car for next season.

Both Alonso and Kimmi drove amazingly well. For me Montoya had the crash of the day, me thinks he likes to crash, he has been doing it alot this season.

I still think that michael will still be back up there next season, remember he is third in the drivers championship.

[Rippley]

Time to revive this thread again, after the last race of the season.

I thought China was an interesting race, in great part because the teams were forced to revise their strategies completely due to the prolonged Safety Car outings. made it a little more interesting for those behinds Alonso, not that he was really under threat at any point in time. It did make for some interesting pit maneuvers overall.

In the end, a slightly frustrating end to the season, although it did have some highlights. For me: Klien pulling off fifth, showing the potential Red Bull is on their way to realizing. Schumie showing that he isn't what he has been (both by having Albers run into him, and then his spin-out on lap 23), and neither is his car. Renault in general, showing a superior car, team and driver effort.

I enjoyed the last race of the season, and look forward to the next one. What about you?

[superiorrain]

I got up real early in the morning to see it live and was disappointed, i take what you mean by strategies but still no overtaking, boring.

Give me a japanese race every weekend.

I don't want to go cold turkey, 4 months with no F1. It's a sad time of the year. Roll o next year and next season, lets hope that the new V8 engines won't spoil the racing in the future.

[powerclown]

No, not the best GP of all-time...The most interesting thing about the race was the Honda's bizarre, new paint scheme. I'm beginning to wonder what Honda sees in Jenson Button. Very poor showing from him. Sato proves definitively that he should never have left karts. How can a guy who won a record 12 wins (from 13 races!) in F3 turn out to be such a bust in F1? Schumacher lucky to be alive after what he pulled just before the Start. That was the strangest damn thing I've ever seen anyone do in F1. Alonso is The Man. Much respect for this guy.

I also enjoyed Klien's drive to 5th. He's a good driver, and the car went surprisingly well in the race. He reminds me of Fisichella 5 years ago. Klien has a lot of potential and I hope he does well. He should have got the Honda seat over Barrichello, as Rubens is finished as a driver. He's at Honda for one reason: to rat out all of Ferrari's little secrets to Honda's engineers.

Nico Rosberg just confirmed at Williams for 06? Say it isn't so...


You. Gee. ELL. Why?



Yes! I will jump the start by 3 seconds, and shoot into the lead!!



I should do it...I should do it!!! Who will know I poured sugar into Alonso's gas tank...



The Master of Understatement