2004 Pro Bowl Selections
 

Argh. I tried to get this lined up from an excel document but it just isn't working. Here are the links to ESPN for the full rosters:

AFC: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...e=afcroster/04

NFC: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...e=nfcroster/04

Glad to see Tom Brady is getting the respect he deserves. :thumbsup:

Vick, as a QB... that makes me laugh

I wanted it to read as RB... that would be comedy, sadly I don't give him much respect as a QB.

This should work, as I previewed it and it looked fine.

What a joke. Vick does not belong in the Pro Bowl. I'm surprised Feeley isn't going to the pro bowl :rolleyes:

WATCH IT RDR!!
AJ Feeley is young and growing better with every game!

oh who am i kidding. next stop: draft!

Hell Shpoop, their stats are almost the same man, it is a absolute disgrace that Vick and ProBowl should even go in the same sentence. You wonder what kind of people vote for this guy.

Guy #1 "Isn't Vick the guy who was on the cover of Madden?"
Guy #2 "er, yeah, lets vote for him, he must be good!"

im surprised Jevon Kearse didnt make it on the list.

haha pretty much... Popularity, combined with the fact that people dont pay attention to their weak schedule when looking at their record, combined with the fact that he actually is a great athlete, just not a very good qb...

Vick changes the way defenses play against the Falcons. He has enough weapons at WR/TE and halfback to be a normal QB, but when defenses go to stop those, he is one of the best and fastest runners in the league.

That is why he's so good, and a Pro Bowler.

I wouldn't make any changes to those rosters.

I'd replace joe horn with randy moss, but that's just me.

Only 2 Aggies. We need to work on that.

Because the NFC is just LOADED with stellar QBs... :crazy:

let's look at the stats shall we:

Top three leading passing yards

1. Culpepper
2. McNabb
3. Favre
11. Vick

Source: http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFC/PYDS/2004/regular

Top three leading passing TD's

1. Culpepper
2. McNabb
3. Favre
11. Vick

Source: http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFC/PTDS/2004/regular

Top three leading passer rating

1. Culpepper
2. McNabb
3. Griese
12. Vick

Source: http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFC/PRAT/2004/regular


So... What say you now Nimbletoe?

[edit]

He also has 12 INTS in 314 attempts compared to:

McNabb - 8 INT 466 ATT
Culpepper - 11 INT 481 ATT

No kidding, that post should be made a sticky.

Comparing Culpepper and McNabb to Vick is just downright hilarious.

QB Daunte Culpepper Vikings 336-481, 4,133 yds, 34 TDs
QB Donovan McNabb Eagles 297-466, 3,839 yds, 30 TDs
QB Michael Vick Falcons 175-314, 2,278 yds, 13 TDs

lol! Sticky it up! Mods? ;)

Its not even that... In comparing Vick to Bulger, Hasselbeck, Griese, and Harrington he falls short...

Even with ESPN rating system Vick is towards the bottom of the list. Take him out

I would add Aaron Smith, 8 sacks in a 3-4 defense. Also add Dillion

I see alot of statistics, but the probowl is for ALL fans. The truth is that most fans don't care about the type of statistics posted in this thread comparing Vick's numbers to the other QB's. What they want to see is Vick with the ball in his hand on 4th and 12.. blowing past defenders on his way to the goaline. Oh yea, doesn't LEADING a team that's 11-3 and that has sewn up their division count for anything?

11-3 in the NFC isnt the same as 11-3 in the AFC

Yeah, you make a good point, which was the point that was made earlier in the thread.

Fans vote based on popularity, which is why the Pro Bowl selections are something which always irk me, especially when deserving candidates are omitted.

The simple fact comes down to his position at QB. Vick is not a good QB; as a matter of fact he is at the bottom of the list. Sure, he is an incredible athlete, but that alone means nothing in terms of what it takes to be a good QB. A QB has to have a number of other qualities to be considered all-star caliber, most importantly, that of knowing how to actually pass the ball....which Vick has yet to learn. Once this guys legs start to slow down on him, what is he going to do? He will be finished, and I can guarantee you the Sparrows can not win a play-off game with an inconsistent QB like him (no matter how sorry the NFC is).

Plain and simple, Vick sucks as a quarterback, but I'm sure he would make a fine running back. And if that were the case, than he would deserve to be a pro-bowl selection, but the fact that a miserable QB like him gets to have pro-bowl honors is ridiculous. There are a lot more worthy QB's in the NFC deserving of that title.

First off, McNabb and Culpepper are ahead of him. Obviously they deserve it over him. Secondly, as previously stated, the pro bowl is for the fans. But the main reason is that he brings a new dynamic to the QB position. The fact that every time he drops back he can do a number of things makes defenses constantly stay on their toes. You can really only understand this if you watch their games. If you go on stats, and stats alone, then yeah, maybe another QB deserves it (oh, and whoever said Harrington is better than Vick is high on something. hahaha, I wish). I'd like to have Vick on my team simply because he's a threat every play, and makes defenses uneasy. Not everything is stats.

A threat to his own team with all the INT's.

Which is why they're 11-3.

No, that would be because their schedule was filled with loser teams.

Your assessment of Vick as a quarterback would be more legit if it was just plain and simple, but it's not. He'll always get knocked for his statistical shortcomings until he proves critics wrong, but your evaluation fails to recognize Vick's redefinition of the QB position. He's an anomaly, to compare him with other more traditional QBs lacks foresight.

Re-defintion of the QB position? Are you stating that because he can run he has re-defined the position? Lets forget that all important aspect of being a QB, you know the one that requires one to pass the ball? He hasn't re-defined a thing, all he does is show how NOT to be a QB.

Who said that you 'have' to pass the ball to be a QB? That's just a part of the job description, not the sole part. The redefinition part comes into play when as a player you can come into the game and change the accepted norm ("the requirement to pass the ball".. i guess) and be effective at what you do at your skill spot and get W's.

That is exactly why I say he is not a good QB, he does have a sole aspect down, which is running, but he can't do anything else. Nobody says all you have to do is pass, but you can't be a successful QB unless you know what makes a great QB. And running alone doesn't make a QB great...

There have been great quarterbacks that have been really good passers, but only so-so runners. Why doesn't that work in reverse? He's obviously getting the job done. Look at Caulpepper's Viking's record. I mean, it's hard to argue that the QB isn't the leader of the team, and he's doing fine. He isn't a TERRIBLE passer, and he's still pretty young.

What determines success @ the QB spot? Trent Dilfer has a superbowl ring that says he was a successful QB, but I don't think he'd come close to your Montana criteria (nor would 90% of QBs playing today). Vick has time and winning percentage on his side, plus nobody wants another Joe Montana. Vick will be Vick whether you appreciate him as a QB or not and he'll play the QB spot his way. Instead of watching Roethlisberger film, he could find old reels of Jeff George. Wait, no.. nevermind. :)

It doesn't work in reverse because the primary job of a QB is to pass, the primary job of a RB is to run. A QB can not win alone on running because if you face a stellar defense that is ready for the run, what are you going to do? Throw 7 INT's? Also, running like that all the time is going to get him injured more severly than he did last season, not only can something like that cost the team the season, it can also end his career.

I removed my Montana statement before you replied registrant2000 for the same reason you stated.....so ignore that.

Dilfer got the ring because he had one of the greatest defenses in NFL history, something most teams can't ever claim.

What determines success at the QB stop? I will tell you.

Grip - Vick has about 15 fumbles this season, that is more than 1 a game.

Intelligence - Vick can't read the defense in passing situations, which is why he freaks out and runs. He seems he can't audilbilize at the line either, why? Because before the play, he already sets himself up for the run. He doesn't even wan't to think of passing. He want's to be a one man team.

Mobility - He has this part down

Accuracy - He has 12 INT's with only 314 attempts.

Vision - He obviously can't scan the field in passing situations.

Who are you to criticize a formula that is obviously working for the Falcons? Should they drop Vick to RB and put in a backup QB just to make traditionalists like you happy? There have been far worse stats than Vicks, but stats do not reflect how he changes the game. If he was such a terrible passer, why don't defenses just go anti-run and stop him?

Looking at the AFC rosters i would add jimmy smith in as a WR.

WHEN it's working for the Falcons.

Look at their losses.

Every single one has been an absolute embarassment, as time goes on, especially in the offseason, defensive co-ordinators will look at the tape thousands of times and unless Mora can come up with something creative, the Falcons will be in trouble.

Of course if Vick gets injured.... replay 2003. Which isn't that hard to picture, with that joke of an o-line.

Thank you Spartak. He answered your question for you.

The Pro Bowl squads are made up of the consensus votes of fans, players and coaches. Each group's vote counts one-third towards determining the rosters. So opposing players and coaches also vote. They recognized his accomplishments.

Besides that, as of Dec 8th (I cant find the final tally), Vick wasn't in the top 5 for fan voting.

That's an interesting stat... I wish I had followed the balloting from start to finish now.

I found a different report too. Through Dec 6th, Vick wasn't even in the top 10 in total votes. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7977093

...


They have THREE losses. There are very few teams who go unbeaten, and i'd say that's pretty close. As far as coaches coming up with something to stop them... it's been an entire season. Why haven't we seen it yet? Vick is only going to improve as well. What does injury have to do with anything, other than you helping to prove my point? You can obviously see how important Vick is to the team. Why in the world would a QB as terrible as your making him out to be make a team so much better? Because he isn't terrible. Because he has a huge impact every time he plays. And no one has figured out how to stop him consistently.

3 Losses?

The 2001 Bears also had 3 losses with Shane Matthews and Jim Miller playing QB. They had a solid running game with Anthony Thomas and a shut down defense posting 2 shutouts and holding opponents to 10 points or under 7 times.

Hey, how are the Bears doing now?

Speaking as a hardcore Bears hater (I'm from south central Illinois, so it's in my blood), they're a 5-9 team that somehow managed to pull a miracle out of their collective asses and beat Green Bay (my third favorite team). Sure, they beat them the first time, but to the Packs credit, at least they didn't go through two quarterbacks early in the season.

rant mode off/

Edit: here's to revenge come January 2nd