Sports like running, cycling, and weightlifting will become obsolete in 10 years - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Scipio · 08-23-2004, 08:22 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...arathon_mice_1

Quote:

The gene engineered in these mice essentially mimics exercise: Researchers say it conferred endurance and prevented the modified mice from becoming obese — even when they were kept inactive and fed a high-fat diet.

"This is a real breakthrough in our understanding of exercise and diet and their effects on obesity," said lead researcher Ronald Evans of the Salk Institute in San Diego. "The practical use of this discovery is the implication in controlling weight."

The paper describes how engineered mice, even the couch potato variety, were able to run farther and longer if their "fat switch" genes remain switched on continuously. The engineering also appeared to make them immune to obesity.

Evans found the gene he dubbed the "fat switch" more than 10 years ago, but it is only just now that its broad implications are being understood. Evans now believes his work has implications for just about every disease of the metabolism, from obesity to heart disease.

"This gives us a real lever on metabolism," Evans said.

Of course, nobody cares more about the intricacies of the human metabolism than Olympic athletes — and for better or worse, Evans is bracing for a flood of inquiries from their trainers now that his research paper has been published in the online journal Public Library of Science Biology.

Many predict that steroids, growth hormones and other drugs and chemicals that cheating athletes take to shave the smallest sliver of a second off their times will soon seem quaint — replaced by hard-to-detect genetic engineering, which could become commonplace as soon as the Beijing Olympics four years from now.

Instead of improving times by fractions of a second, the genetically enhanced marathon mice ran twice as far and nearly twice as long as naturally bred rodents.

The engineered mice ran 1,800 meters before quitting and stayed on the treadmill an hour longer than the natural mice, which were able to stay running for 90 minutes and travel 900 meters. Evans said he has not seen any adverse side effects in the engineered mice.

Evans expects his research will be of keen interest to the Olympic officials who struggle to keep athletes honest. "It's a bit ironic that we developed these marathon mice at the same time of the Olympics," he said.

Evans and his team made the marathon mice to help them better understand diseases of the metabolism such as obesity and diabetes. The bulked-up "Schwarzenegger mice" serve a different purpose — research into muscular dystrophy treatments.

The "fat switch" gene, when switched on, begins the process of creating "fatigue-resistant" muscles while helping the heart and nervous system create endurance.

Humans run and jump thanks in large part to two types of muscle, known as "fast twitch" and "slow twitch." Depending on workout regimens, fast twitch is converted into slow twitch or vice versa.

Sprinters crave fast twitch, which confers speed at the cost of endurance. Marathoners work to bulk up slow twitch for the opposite reason. Elite athletes are continuously probing their muscles to ensure they have the right ratio of fast- and slow-twitch muscles.

Evans' team found that slow twitch converted into fast twitch only when the gene in charge of the process kicked on, which was only when the mice exercised. That is a problem for couch potatoes with Olympic-sized goals.

So Evans took a piece of genetic material known as a promoter, or "gene switch," and injected it into the mice, keeping the gene on continuously. As a result, even the laziest mice increased endurance.

"The enhanced performance of the mouse could translate into human athleticism," Evans said.

There's a big gulf between mice and men, and the field of gene therapy has yielded mixed results over the last decade, including the death of a human subject five years ago.

Still, Evans' earlier work is already being tested in people. The pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline PLC is conducting mid-stage human experiments with a chemical that turns on the "fat switch" in hopes of developing a drug to raise levels of "good cholesterol."

"This may represent a significant role in exercise endurance," said Glaxo spokesman Rick Koening.

After Evans' latest work was published on Monday, Koenig added a cautionary note: "We do not condone the pharmaceutical enhancement of athletes."

A couple of observations.

One, it's inevitable that a time will come when the use of undetectable and effective performance enhancing substances become the standard. That time may have already come, but it's clear that the future holds even more profound changes. Truly elite sprinters, cyclists, and distance runners depend on their genetic gifts to reach the top of their profession; most people could never reach a certain level no matter how hard they trained.

Future applications of known science will change all of that. My prediction is that enforcement will become virtually impossible, and that enhancement methods will become both more discrete and more effective.

It won't be obvious when it happens. (As I noted above, the time might be now). We won't see a sub 3 minute mile, or 90 minute marathon, but athletes who choose to use drugs will be sure they get just enough juice to stay ahead of the pack.

Am I wrong? I sure hope so.

Average_Joe · 08-24-2004, 08:30 AM

It would be truly unfortunate that performance enhancement would get to the genetic level, but as the doping gets more technical, so will the enforcement methods. If science can come up with a way of altering genes, then I'm sure science will come up with a way of detecting the gene alteration.

I don't believe that it will be much different that the system that's in place now. It wouldn't surprise me if there were undetectable performance enhancement drugs being used now. But once the testing labs know what to look for, they will develop a detection system for those specific drugs.

Scipio · 08-24-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Average_Joe

It would be truly unfortunate that performance enhancement would get to the genetic level, but as the doping gets more technical, so will the enforcement methods. If science can come up with a way of altering genes, then I'm sure science will come up with a way of detecting the gene alteration.

I don't believe that it will be much different that the system that's in place now. It wouldn't surprise me if there were undetectable performance enhancement drugs being used now. But once the testing labs know what to look for, they will develop a detection system for those specific drugs.

It seems to me that the people who make illegal substances will always be one step ahead of the authorities. They say that there are already undetectable drugs out there, though the performance gains aren't huge.

It gets really crazy when you consider that in our lifetimes, it's likely that genetically engineered people will be born. I personally think that the enhancement of human beings at the genetic level for performance reasons, both physical and mental, raises a ton of profound questions that I think we'll have trouble coping with.

That doesn't mean it won't happen.

sailor · 08-24-2004, 02:38 PM

This has been coming for a while. As it is, synthetic erythropoietin (EPO) runs unchecked in professional sports. There (until recently) is no test for it, and its effects are definitely beneficial to most athletes.

The problem is, this will affect all sports. Professional sports would become more about who is willing to take more risks with what they inject themselves with or what gene therapy they go into rather than their academic prowess. Hopefully someone will develope some kind of test, but Im not holding my breath for things like gene doping. It just opens too many doors--what if someone really was born with tremendous ability? Thats already how many sports stars are. Look at Lance Armstrong, for instance. Sure, he trains harder than probably anyone else in the pro peloton, but it sure as hell doesnt hurt him to have an "engine" much larger than his competitors.

Dwayne · 08-24-2004, 05:35 PM

Just thinking here, if everyone has the same alteration to their genes then the uneveness will even out. So while people could lift more weight everyone could do it then so there would still be a competition.

Scipio · 08-24-2004, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwayne

Just thinking here, if everyone has the same alteration to their genes then the uneveness will even out. So while people could lift more weight everyone could do it then so there would still be a competition.

The drug enhanced playing field would never be even. Some people would take even more, or would take different drugs. If everyone agreed to do the same thing, there would be an incentive to cheat, much like there is now. My basic point is that sports lose their meaning when they become about who's willing to take the most drugs, and my prediction is that in as early as 10 years, performance events will begin to become so polluted with drug enhanced or geneticly enhanced athletes that they cease to be competitive in a purely athletic sense.

sailor · 08-24-2004, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio

The drug enhanced playing field would never be even. Some people would take even more, or would take different drugs. If everyone agreed to do the same thing, there would be an incentive to cheat, much like there is now. My basic point is that sports lose their meaning when they become about who's willing to take the most drugs, and my prediction is that in as early as 10 years, performance events will begin to become so polluted with drug enhanced or geneticly enhanced athletes that they cease to be competitive in a purely athletic sense.

Exactly. It would never be even--it would turn into a competition between who is willing to take the most risks with "supplements." Besides, athletics are supposed to be about what <i>you</i> are capable of, not what science is capable of.

Antikarma · 08-25-2004, 05:32 AM

We could always replace the olympics with Lan parties. No wait, they'd hack it. Hmmm, Political debate? No wait, they'd lie. Well there must be SOMETHING people haven't found a way to cheat at yet......

*drawing a blank*

WeAllDie1Day · 08-25-2004, 04:58 PM

UH...tic tac toe contests?

xaneidolon · 08-27-2004, 09:18 PM

Bob Costas made what I thought was a good point the other night in one of his end-of-the-show commentaries. He suggested that blood and urine samples be saved forever and re-tested as science progresses. Maybe the doping that gets done today and is undetected will be caught in ten or twenty years - and the medals and records will be taken back. His point is that this may deter cheating because the cheaters would eventually be found out. I do like the idea.

Fire · 08-30-2004, 06:18 PM

I do not care what this does to sports- I do care that it holds the potential to be the greatest boon to humanity since we learned to plant crops- so many diseases could be ended, and the aged could live out their lives with strength and dignity- we have stopped evolving the old fashioned way, and many dominant traits (obesity, diabetes, etc) are killing us at an alarming rate- for some obesity is a function of the need to move their fat asses around more, but for others it is a genetic predisposition, one that costs all of us that pay taxes meore each year- so let us embrace this new miracle, instead of reacting like the inquisition did to galileo- sure, there are risks, and consequences, but the world NEVER stands still, and Sports can evolve as well, along with the social conventions that are attached to it........

08-24-2004, 02:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	This has been coming for a while. As it is, synthetic erythropoietin (EPO) runs unchecked in professional sports. There (until recently) is no test for it, and its effects are definitely beneficial to most athletes. The problem is, this will affect all sports. Professional sports would become more about who is willing to take more risks with what they inject themselves with or what gene therapy they go into rather than their academic prowess. Hopefully someone will develope some kind of test, but Im not holding my breath for things like gene doping. It just opens too many doors--what if someone really was born with tremendous ability? Thats already how many sports stars are. Look at Lance Armstrong, for instance. Sure, he trains harder than probably anyone else in the pro peloton, but it sure as hell doesnt hurt him to have an "engine" much larger than his competitors. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

08-25-2004, 05:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
Antikarma Psycho Location: Yellowknife, NWT	We could always replace the olympics with Lan parties. No wait, they'd hack it. Hmmm, Political debate? No wait, they'd lie. Well there must be SOMETHING people haven't found a way to cheat at yet...... drawing a blank __________________ "Whoever you are, go out into the evening, leaving your room, of which you know each bit; your house is the last before the infinite, whoever you are."

08-25-2004, 04:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
WeAllDie1Day Upright	UH...tic tac toe contests? __________________ "My power is discombobulatingly devastating I could feel is muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm." "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" -Priceless quotes by Mike Tyson

08-30-2004, 06:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	I do not care what this does to sports- I do care that it holds the potential to be the greatest boon to humanity since we learned to plant crops- so many diseases could be ended, and the aged could live out their lives with strength and dignity- we have stopped evolving the old fashioned way, and many dominant traits (obesity, diabetes, etc) are killing us at an alarming rate- for some obesity is a function of the need to move their fat asses around more, but for others it is a genetic predisposition, one that costs all of us that pay taxes meore each year- so let us embrace this new miracle, instead of reacting like the inquisition did to galileo- sure, there are risks, and consequences, but the world NEVER stands still, and Sports can evolve as well, along with the social conventions that are attached to it........ __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

08-24-2004, 08:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Average_Joe Psycho Location: Under the Radar	It would be truly unfortunate that performance enhancement would get to the genetic level, but as the doping gets more technical, so will the enforcement methods. If science can come up with a way of altering genes, then I'm sure science will come up with a way of detecting the gene alteration. I don't believe that it will be much different that the system that's in place now. It wouldn't surprise me if there were undetectable performance enhancement drugs being used now. But once the testing labs know what to look for, they will develop a detection system for those specific drugs.

08-24-2004, 05:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Dwayne Crazy Location: New England	Just thinking here, if everyone has the same alteration to their genes then the uneveness will even out. So while people could lift more weight everyone could do it then so there would still be a competition.

08-27-2004, 09:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
xaneidolon Tilted	Bob Costas made what I thought was a good point the other night in one of his end-of-the-show commentaries. He suggested that blood and urine samples be saved forever and re-tested as science progresses. Maybe the doping that gets done today and is undetected will be caught in ten or twenty years - and the medals and records will be taken back. His point is that this may deter cheating because the cheaters would eventually be found out. I do like the idea.