Should Sports That Require Judging be in the Olympics
 

Another situation that shows the flaws in judged events at the olympics.
http://www.canada.com/sports/insidea...b-f81e2b63eb80

I believe that subjective scoring is a bad idea in anything. I don't think any "sport" that uses it should be in the Olympics.

I think that, for things like gymnastics, figure skating, diving, etc., there should be a certain point value assigned for various moves and you get scored based on that. I don't know how feasible it is, but I think it would be better then the corruptable scoring now.

Here is another one, I am not sure how much attention this is getting in the U.S.

That's more or less how it's currently done. Each routine has a starting value. That value represents the best score you can get if everything is perfect. Being perfect is more than just doing the moves. It includes things like how straight your body is, how tightly you are tucked, how pointed your toes are, etc. There are a lot of details that cannot be seen by casual observers and even well educated fans watching from a distance.

Scoring is the only way to determine the best performance in things like diving and gymnastics. There are disadvantages though. Your place in line can also greatly affect your score. Because scores are given after each routine, they need to be sure that someone else with the same routine going after you needs to be able to get a better score if they do a better job. It puts more pressure on the early people and lets the last person know exactly what they need to win. Instead of assigning scores after each routine, I'd rather they waited till everyone is done. After all routines are done, the judges convene and decide the scores.

I also have a problem with how the panel can be influenced by nationalities. There is fairness in that the highest and lowest scores are thrown out and wide differences need to be negotiated and defended. Overall, I think it would be better if there was only one score which was agreed upon by all judges rather than a canadian, american, russian, french, etc. individually giving scores that are averaged.

Currently video review is not allowed. I think it should be included.

Although these ideas could make the judging more fair, it would also eliminate the instant gratification of knowing who wins right away. OTOH, it would increase the drama because you don't know what the placements are before the last two routines are performed.

Bloody Olympics... they've been swearing to clean up their act for ages now. Not just the judging, but the way in which they grant cities "host" status too. Those old fools are too dependent on the gifts/privileges/payola to change their habits, it seems. Whatever the "Olympic spirit" is, I know it sure as hell doesn't have a place in the back rooms of the higher-ups.
Ugh, did that make sense? I need another drink I think. Cheers.

I can't say one way or the other. I'm a gymnastic fan and would hate to see it leave the olympics. But does this apply to basketball with the referee, or baseball/softball with umpires? How strikes are called one day is different from the next. Every event is subjective is some way.

or one batter to the next. The strike zone Barry Bonds gets is much smaller than the strike zone a rookie hitter gets. Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux get a couple inches off the black, rookie pitchers don't even get the black.

i think subjective scoring is necessary in artistic sports. Freezing in place what an athlete needs to win restricts progression of these sports. At the very least I would hate to see half-pipe snowboarding removed from the Olympics, or have a tightly bound scoring system.

Nope. I don't consider Figure Skating or Gymnastics real sports. I put them in the catagory along with Professional Wrestling. Hear me out. The most popular and best performing Professional Wrestlers get the title belts and all the attention. Same with Figure Skating and Gymnastics. Other sports that fall into this catagory: Skateboarding, Snowboarding, Freestyle Moto-X, Diving, etc. Some are damn good athletic activities, and some are very interesting to watch, but they're just not sports.

A strike zone is baseball is a rule. I can be very easily enforced by anyone who follows the rules. Pass interference in football is a rule, it can be easily enforced. The judging in Gymnastics is everything. It's the rule, the scoreboard, the game, the season. Everything.

Meanwhile, they will never be removed from the olympics. Unless you can find some way to bring in billions of dollars only on sports.

Judging is subjective, yes and no. But it all boils down to the judge seeing everything in a split second. He or she may have looked at their score sheet when a bonus move was made, thus not seeing, this happens all the time. The difference is all the cameras, slow mo's etc that make every one except the judge, and arm chair judge.

In gymnastics, there are certain skills that are required in each event. If a person adds a little extra, it doesn't mean it was bonus. There are skills that are spelled out that constitue bonus. Granted the judges spend hours reviewing everything, it is possible to miss things.

Sorry, I guess I'm just not putting into words what I'm really thinking here...

That is completely different. In order for that comparison to work, in baseball the umpire would give a certain number of bases/runs to a batter based on how well he hit the ball, where the pitch was, etc. For basketball, the ref would give points based on his opinion of the difficulty of the shot.

Competitions like gymnastics are based completely on the opinions of the judges. There might be certain things that are set out as penalties, but most of it is completely subjective from what I can tell.

I had a brilliant idea..

For sports that require judging (gym, diving, figure skating etc). Incorporate sensors into the outfits of the competitors (or in the case of diving.. figure something out :p), these sensors are then picked up by several cameras around the arena (like they do motion capture for video games). All these cameras are connected to a computer which has a huge database of various possible moves performed in the most perfect way. After the competitor completes their routine, the computer analyses all the moves in terms of perfection and give the competitor their score depedant on how perfect it was.

Sorry, but no. I am a gymnastics teacher, and my son competes, albeit a low level, he competes. Judging is not based on the judges opinions. There are guide lines each gymnast has to follow. Each routine has to contain so many elements of each skill.

My comparison is that of a referee in Basketball, how many calls does he/she miss that change the complexity of the game. It is clear and defined, but was missed. In gymnastics, it is clear and defined, but missed by the judge.

The strike zone itself may be well defined, but it is not well enforced. Fouls in the NBA are enforced subjectively.

regarding gymnastics, it's my opinion that people are passing judgements on a sport that they really don't understand.

What is a "real" sport then....and how is the distinction made?

Exactly. But we are all guilty of this. After watching something so long, we all tend to think we know a lot about it, and pass down our opinions as fact. I am guilty of it as well. Just with gymnastics, I know a hell of a lot about it. I actually took classes to be a judge for lower level judging. It didn't work out with the meet schedule my son has.

From the basic like track and field to the complicated like baseball, football, soccer, rugby. In all of these sports, the scoring is the same all the way through.

In something like gymnastics or freestyle moto-x there is no hard and fast scoring. One judge will take off a certain amount here, another a certain amount there, the scoring is variable, it changes. If it was such an accurate system then there would be no need for averages, the score of every judge would be the same. Instead personal opinion is involved and one judge can score one full point higher or one full point lower.

So, if Im understanding you correctly, something isnt a REAL sport because of the scoring system? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're meaning :crazy:

while im not sure if i agree with you or not, something does not need to be a sport to be in the Olympics. They are the Olympic Games, not Sports. long jump isnt a sport, and ballroom dancing sure as hell isnt a sport, but nonetheless they are still there.

Then think of it this way. In football, baseball, basketball, rugby, the sports I'm saying are real sports, the only way to "rig" a sport so that someone is the winner or loser you would need to bribe the players.

In activities like gymnastics, freestyle moto-x, and figure skating, you could affect the entire outcome by bribing the judges. A person could have the performance of a lifetime, but that doesn't matter. The entire outcome is out of their hands. There's no game winning shot, there's no game winning save, there's no game winning anything. The participants have zero control over the end result.