Roger Clemens you make me sick - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

jobu · 08-02-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Associated Press
Posted: 2 hours ago

Houston Astros pitcher Roger Clemens was asked to leave a youth baseball game over the weekend for arguing a close call that went against his son's team.

Clemens was at the game Saturday watching his son, Kacy, compete in a 10-and-under game organized by Triple Crown Sports when Clemens contested a call at second base that went against the Katy Cowboys.

He spit sunflower seeds at an umpire's leg and was asked to leave, said Jim Carpenter, a field supervisor with Triple Crown.

"I supported the umpire's decision and he (Clemens) respectfully left," Carpenter told the Craig Daily Press.

Katy lost the game to the Bakersfield Curve, 11-5.

Triple Crown Sports features a franchise system aimed at pitting top teams from across the country against each other.

Clemens' agent, Randall Hendricks, did not immediately return a call Monday. Clemens has racked up 322 wins and 4,240 strikeouts in his 21-year major league career.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2631146

I can’t tell you how much it bothers me when parents act like this at their kids games. There is nothing positive when a parent goes out and acts like this to an official. Especially one that isn’t even a coach. What did you hope to accomplish Roger? To show everyone that you are one of the worlds biggest assholes. Who’s acting like the adult here Roger? You or the kids playing the game? If I was the director of a youth league and a parent acted like that they would NEVER be allowed to attend any more games. Have some respect for the game and the kids playing it. I guarantee you that that incident is going to last in a lot of those kids minds. If Roger can go out and disrespect people and act like a total baby then why can’t I? You might be able to get away with these antics in the big leagues where the officials get paid well to make the correct calls, but this is a 10 year old little league game where instruction, learning, and having fun are the points of emphasis. That official isn’t out there to screw anyone over. He is trying promote the sport and give some direction to how the game is played. Officials are people too. When they make bad calls they know it. They don't need some person geting in their faces trying to start a fight with them when they know they screwed up. Mistakes are going to happen and it is about time you learned that Roger. I forgot though, you're perfect. But still an asshole in my book.

Halx · 08-02-2004, 01:33 PM

Hello, I'd like to register my opinion as 'amused' and nothing more.

JoeyB · 08-02-2004, 03:35 PM

In the other dugout, Mike Piazza's kid thought about doing something, then thought better of it and sat down.

canuckguy · 08-02-2004, 04:55 PM

i am surprised by this story based on how layed back clemens is.

pan6467 · 08-02-2004, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeyB
In the other dugout, Mike Piazza's kid thought about doing something, then thought better of it and sat down.

Now that is funny, good quick wit.

Kurant · 08-02-2004, 08:57 PM

You know, this happens every day across the US, Canada, all over the world.

This is only an issue because it's Roger Clemens, other then that, who gives a shit? It's kids baseball, with crazy parents, it's everywhere. Get used to it. Just because of who he is doesn't change the fact he's still a parent, to a child playing baseball, and they get outta hand.

doodlebird · 08-02-2004, 11:26 PM

is anyone shocked that clemens is an ass? he's been as ass for at least the last 18 years. being a dad at a little league game won't change anything. this is the guy who won't travel with his team this year. (sure, to be with his family... and this is what he does with them. awesome!)

don't get me wrong, i love his determination. his numbers don't lie. but i think the part of his personality that makes him so focused on winning doesn't allow him to sit back and just enjoy playing (or watching). it is something of a pleasure for me to watch the Ass-tros sink lower in the standings.

DDDDave · 08-03-2004, 07:25 AM

Just like to point out that there are two sides to every story. Did you read the 'foxsports' link?

Hollering 'Oh, come on ump' when the call is obviously wrong shouldn't be cause for ejecting someone from the property. The umpire was supposedly a 20-something kid who missed a call. The shortstop from the other team admitted after the game that he failed to even tag the runner. Hollering from the stands at the ump is part of baseball. Listening to complaints is part of being an umpire.

We all know this can go too far. If it affects the play or players that is going too far. Personal attacks, abusive language or profanity are never tolerated. Usually a warning from the ump is enough to quiet all but the complete assholes of the world.

I know I would want my Dad to holler if I got thrown out by a bad call. It doesn't sound like it was anything more than that.

How did the umpire to get close enough to get hit by a sunflower seed on his leg? (Possible life threating injury there) Sounds to me like an umpire who wanted to go tell his buddies at the bar 'Hey , I threw Roger Clemens out of a game today'.

kutulu · 08-03-2004, 08:39 AM

It's disrespectfull and is a bad example of behavior to your kids. It's a 10 and under league, the point is that they have fun, not win the game.

djtestudo · 08-03-2004, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DDDDave
How did the umpire to get close enough to get hit by a sunflower seed on his leg? (Possible life threating injury there) Sounds to me like an umpire who wanted to go tell his buddies at the bar 'Hey , I threw Roger Clemens out of a game today'.

What is your opinion on Roberto Alomar?

Mikado · 08-03-2004, 11:21 AM

Maybe some of you guys don't realize how competitive that league is. My 11 yr old brother plays in the same level of Roger's kids. They've played against each other several times. These kids are THE best players in the area and the emphasis IS winning. My brother's team just got back from FLA where they played the USSSA Nationals. There's more competition there than in the majors sometimes.

People get thrown out of little league games all the time. Parents get into the game and let tempers flare. The competition and excitment build up tension especially in close games. It just so happens a big name was involved this time. Does it make him an asshole? Certainly not. I guarentee you he wasn't the only person yelling at a bad call that game.

It's part of the sport, the kids are going to see and learn that reguardless if it's Joe Schmoo or Roger Clemons. Give the guy a break.

JoeyB · 08-03-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mikado

It's part of the sport, the kids are going to see and learn that reguardless if it's Joe Schmoo or Roger Clemons. Give the guy a break.

That's part of the game now?

Do they stick with the fundamentals and teach the yelling first or do they go straight to the spitting?

Showing this lack of sportsmanship to impressionable 11 year olds is why we have professional athletes who think nothing of bumping umpires, throwing bats onto the field and acting....well....like 11 year olds.

I guess the game has changed since I played little league. If a father came from the stands and ended up close enough to the umpire that he could spit on him, it was an embarrassment to the father and his son/daughter. When did that become not only acceptable, but expected?

If you need me, I'll be at the concession stand getting a sno-cone. THAT'S the part of little league I want to remember.

Sp0rAdiC · 08-03-2004, 07:22 PM

I help out with my brother's baseball team sometimes, and it's horrible how these people will yell and act like complete assholes, but won't bother to volunteer to help out at all. They won't help ump in the field, they won't even work the concession stand, but they feel they can bitch and complain about how the other volunteers made a bad call or something. It's rediculous.

pan6467 · 08-03-2004, 08:49 PM

I coached a team where I had players who didn't even know how to throw a baseball or hit. But we practiced every day, I taught them how to play for fun and how to keep score so anyone of them could do the book. I taught them everything I knew about the game because I had great parental support.

In the championship game we won, not because we were more talented but because my guys and their parents were there to have fun, knew what it took and believed in themselves.

The other team's coach was an asshole who pushed his team too hard and yelled and was just a jerk-off on and off the field. His team's parents had the same attitude as he did.

1997 Mansfield Ohio PAL Championship his team folded under the pressure and quit on him. My team went out had a blast and played thgeir hearts out and won.

It was one of the greatest moments in my life to watch these kids and to know I helped them. To this day when I see one of them they remember me. To me that's what LL is all about. I taught them self respect, teamwork and how to have fun whether you won or lost and for the ones I've seen since they have all said they learned something that summer from me.

BonesCPA · 08-04-2004, 06:12 AM

Follow up linky

Quote:

The Associated Press
Updated: 2:41 a.m. ET Aug. 4, 2004HOUSTON - Roger Clemens walked into the clubhouse still clutching a bat Tuesday night, the anger within him slowly bubbling to the surface. Far from being a winning pitcher, Clemens was mostly a disgruntled dad.

“It’s very scary that it could come to this,” Clemens said, trying hard to restrain himself. “A lot of people owe my family an apology.”

Clemens pitched seven strong innings on the eve of his 42nd birthday in the Astros’ 3-2 win over Atlanta, but he was clearly in no celebratory mood as he publicly addressed his ejection Saturday from his 10-year-old son’s youth league game in Craig, Colo., for the first time.

After his son was called out in a close play, Clemens was banished to the parking lot after an umpire accused him of spitting a sunflower seed at him.

The Rocket had apparently been waiting for days to tell his side of the story, making his postgame comments from the coaches’ room of the clubhouse instead of the usual spot in front of his locker.

Clemens started out calmly, even joking with reporters about the ejection at first. But he grew more exasperated with each question, finally going on a five-minute tirade.

“I guess I’m a champion seed-spitter,” Clemens said. “I was probably a good 20 yards from the field. I’ve been able to see ... comments like I was nose-to-nose and toe-to-toe and arguing. I was sitting on a bucket talking to fans and signing in between.”

He denied even being tossed from the game, saying that he went to the car — as he always does — toward the end of the game.

“When a guy just blatantly lies about a situation that is so hurtful,” Clemens said. “I guess I am so disappointed in the media because I was only a phone call away. Anyone could have followed up on the story with me or my agents. It was reckless.”

Clemens’ postgame fury overshadowed another impressive outing on the mound Tuesday night.

He allowed four hits in seven strong innings, leaving with a 2-1 lead after walking the first two batters in the eighth. Dan Miceli (4-5) retired Charles Thomas on a forceout, then loaded the bases with a walk to Marcus Giles and allowed an RBI grounder to Chipper Jones.

Miceli reloaded the bases with a walk to Johnny Estrada, then struck out Adam LaRoche to end the threat.

Clemens, who struck out six and walked three, remained at 322 victories, two behind Nolan Ryan and Don Sutton for 12th place on the career list. He gave up two runs, just one of them earned.

“It’s one of his best outings that I’ve seen,” manager Phil Garner said.

The Rocket, whose birthday in Wednesday, is 2-0 in four starts since the All-Star game, when he gave up six first-inning runs before his hometown fans in the NL’s 9-4 loss.

“I haven’t seen him in awhile,” Atlanta manager Bobby Cox said, “and it’s OK with me if I don’t see him anymore.”

Houston went back ahead in the bottom half off Chris Reitsma (4-3). Morgan Ensberg doubled, Mike Lamb had a pinch-hit single and Jose Vizcaino hit an RBI grounder, with Lamb barreling into second baseman Marcus Giles to prevent what would have been an inning-ending double play.

“I just did my best to get down the line and take him out,” Lamb said. “I’m not very fast. I just had to get to second.”

Brad Lidge struck out the final three batters for his 12th save in 14 chances.

The Astros (54-52) moved two games above .500 for the first time since July 9, when they were 44-42.

Atlanta’s Russ Ortiz gave up two runs and seven hits in seven innings. He’s 6-0 in his last eight starts.

Andruw Jones’ RBI single put Atlanta ahead in the second following an error by Ensberg at third.

In the bottom of the inning, Jeff Bagwell doubled off the right-center wall — missing a home run by a few inches — and Ensberg followed with a run-scoring double to tie the game at 1-1. Craig Biggio homered leading off the seventh.

“If you’re going to lose, it’s good to lose a good game like this,” Atlanta’s Julio Franco said. “It’s not like we were out there falling down and making mistakes.”

Two sides to every story....

bond007 · 08-04-2004, 02:17 PM

sounds like some people owe Clemens an apology!

djtestudo · 08-04-2004, 02:24 PM

Sounds to me like we ought to find out which side is true, or which one is at least more accurate.

Roger could simply be covering his immense ass.

Ace_O_Spades · 08-04-2004, 05:16 PM

hmm, i find it hard to believe that something like that could be TOTALLY fabricated

JoeyB · 08-05-2004, 06:24 AM

Have any of the other parents or fans at the game came out to say what they saw?

I respect the fact that there are always 2 sides to a situation, but I don't trust a 20 year old umpire OR a man who can get confused enough to think that a piece of shattered lumber in his hand is actually a small round baseball. ("I thought it was the ball! I thought it was the ball!")

Have any of the local tv stations interviewed anyone else who was at the game?

Ace_O_Spades · 08-05-2004, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeyB
OR a man who can get confused enough to think that a piece of shattered lumber in his hand is actually a small round baseball. ("I thought it was the ball! I thought it was the ball!")

he speaks the truth

the mystery!!! THE MYSTERY!!!

jobu · 08-05-2004, 08:30 AM

Quote:

originally posted by Kutulu
It's disrespectfull and is a bad example of behavior to your kids. It's a 10 and under league, the point is that they have fun, not win the game.

Exactly!

Quote:

originally posted by DDDDave
Hollering 'Oh, come on ump' when the call is obviously wrong shouldn't be cause for ejecting someone from the property. The umpire was supposedly a 20-something kid who missed a call. The shortstop from the other team admitted after the game that he failed to even tag the runner. Hollering from the stands at the ump is part of baseball. Listening to complaints is part of being an umpire.

Quote:

originally posted by Mikado
Maybe some of you guys don't realize how competitive that league is. My 11 yr old brother plays in the same level of Roger's kids. They've played against each other several times. These kids are THE best players in the area and the emphasis IS winning.

i don't have a problem with someone voicing his or her opinions about a bad call. And as an ump you should expect that to happen at times. But, there is a fine between respectfully complaining and being disrespectful. there is nothing wrong with competition, and if you are trying to infer that because it is a competitive situation it gives you the right complain more then i don't see it. if this is such a competitive league then why is some 20 year old kid working this game? the complaint should have been to the person who assigned the ump that game. the bottom line here is that these are impressionable kids and when we as adults start acting worse than our children then there is nothing positive that they will take from their experiences.

JoeyB · 08-05-2004, 02:51 PM

UPDATE:

Ben Walker / Associated Press

Roger Clemens was given an emphatic apology Thursday for "unjustly" being ejected from his 10-year-old son's baseball game last weekend in Colorado.

David King, president of tournament organizer Triple Crown Sports, said "Mr. Clemens was a non-aggressor and a victim of mistaken identity and confusion" by an upset umpire.
Clemens was asked to leave son Kacy's game Saturday in Craig, Colo., when a 22-year-old ump said the Houston Astros pitcher spit a sunflower seed at him. Moments earlier, Kacy was called out on a stolen base attempt - the fielder later admitted he missed the tag - and the Rocket watched the rest of the contest from a parking lot.

"Mr. Clemens never raised his voice, never physically confronted our official, nor was he ever on the field of play," King said in a written statement, underlining those words.

"Mr. Clemens was unjustly asked to leave the field of play," King said. "For all of this, we apologize to Mr. Clemens."

King spoke to the future Hall of Famer by telephone to apologize personally.

Clemens was sitting on a bucket, behind a fence near the first base dugout, when Kacy was called out at second base in the middle innings of a game the Bakersfield (Calif.) Curve won 11-5.

The Katy coaches and fans complained about the call, but witnesses said Clemens never said a word. The umpire came over to quiet the ruckus, and said he was hit in the pants cuff by a sunflower seed spit by Clemens.

Clemens left without an argument and said "he didn't want to be distraction and to let the boys play ball," Katy manager Doug Hanson said.

King said the Katy coaches were contesting the call and "our official was upset and angered and approached the area to remove someone. In our official's judgment, a seed had come from the area during the coaches' arguments.

"After reviewing the situation, including the location of the official, it is impossible to believe that a seed was spit at our official by Roger Clemens or anyone."

King did not identify the young umpire, but said he was a schoolteacher and in his seventh year of calling games.

"With all the complaining the Katy coaches were doing, one of them probably deserved to be gone," King said. "But the vision and the reality, it took it in a direction that didn't happen."

JoeyB · 08-05-2004, 02:52 PM

The lesson in all of this.....

Don't have children.

Hanxter · 08-06-2004, 05:31 AM

this lesson in all this... shoot first then run for cover when you hit the wrong guy... linkage

jobu · 08-06-2004, 02:02 PM

since i started this thread and it appears that the truth is not what was first reported, i apologize to roger for bashing him.

08-02-2004, 01:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Hello, I'd like to register my opinion as 'amused' and nothing more. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-02-2004, 03:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
JoeyB feeling tingly	In the other dugout, Mike Piazza's kid thought about doing something, then thought better of it and sat down. __________________ My mom is a Diamondbacks fan. She really likes the Big Unit

08-03-2004, 07:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
DDDDave Addict Location: Sarasota	Just like to point out that there are two sides to every story. Did you read the 'foxsports' link? Hollering 'Oh, come on ump' when the call is obviously wrong shouldn't be cause for ejecting someone from the property. The umpire was supposedly a 20-something kid who missed a call. The shortstop from the other team admitted after the game that he failed to even tag the runner. Hollering from the stands at the ump is part of baseball. Listening to complaints is part of being an umpire. We all know this can go too far. If it affects the play or players that is going too far. Personal attacks, abusive language or profanity are never tolerated. Usually a warning from the ump is enough to quiet all but the complete assholes of the world. I know I would want my Dad to holler if I got thrown out by a bad call. It doesn't sound like it was anything more than that. How did the umpire to get close enough to get hit by a sunflower seed on his leg? (Possible life threating injury there) Sounds to me like an umpire who wanted to go tell his buddies at the bar 'Hey , I threw Roger Clemens out of a game today'. __________________ I am just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe... "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau "Nothing great was ever accomplished without enthusiasm" - Emerson Last edited by DDDDave; 08-03-2004 at 07:31 AM..

08-03-2004, 08:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I coached a team where I had players who didn't even know how to throw a baseball or hit. But we practiced every day, I taught them how to play for fun and how to keep score so anyone of them could do the book. I taught them everything I knew about the game because I had great parental support. In the championship game we won, not because we were more talented but because my guys and their parents were there to have fun, knew what it took and believed in themselves. The other team's coach was an asshole who pushed his team too hard and yelled and was just a jerk-off on and off the field. His team's parents had the same attitude as he did. 1997 Mansfield Ohio PAL Championship his team folded under the pressure and quit on him. My team went out had a blast and played thgeir hearts out and won. It was one of the greatest moments in my life to watch these kids and to know I helped them. To this day when I see one of them they remember me. To me that's what LL is all about. I taught them self respect, teamwork and how to have fun whether you won or lost and for the ones I've seen since they have all said they learned something that summer from me. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

08-04-2004, 02:24 PM	#17 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Sounds to me like we ought to find out which side is true, or which one is at least more accurate. Roger could simply be covering his immense ass. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

08-02-2004, 04:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	i am surprised by this story based on how layed back clemens is.

08-02-2004, 08:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	You know, this happens every day across the US, Canada, all over the world. This is only an issue because it's Roger Clemens, other then that, who gives a shit? It's kids baseball, with crazy parents, it's everywhere. Get used to it. Just because of who he is doesn't change the fact he's still a parent, to a child playing baseball, and they get outta hand.

08-02-2004, 11:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
doodlebird pío pío Location: on a branch about to break	is anyone shocked that clemens is an ass? he's been as ass for at least the last 18 years. being a dad at a little league game won't change anything. this is the guy who won't travel with his team this year. (sure, to be with his family... and this is what he does with them. awesome!) don't get me wrong, i love his determination. his numbers don't lie. but i think the part of his personality that makes him so focused on winning doesn't allow him to sit back and just enjoy playing (or watching). it is something of a pleasure for me to watch the Ass-tros sink lower in the standings.

08-03-2004, 08:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	It's disrespectfull and is a bad example of behavior to your kids. It's a 10 and under league, the point is that they have fun, not win the game.

08-03-2004, 11:21 AM	#11 (permalink)
Mikado Crazy Location: Houston, Texas	Maybe some of you guys don't realize how competitive that league is. My 11 yr old brother plays in the same level of Roger's kids. They've played against each other several times. These kids are THE best players in the area and the emphasis IS winning. My brother's team just got back from FLA where they played the USSSA Nationals. There's more competition there than in the majors sometimes. People get thrown out of little league games all the time. Parents get into the game and let tempers flare. The competition and excitment build up tension especially in close games. It just so happens a big name was involved this time. Does it make him an asshole? Certainly not. I guarentee you he wasn't the only person yelling at a bad call that game. It's part of the sport, the kids are going to see and learn that reguardless if it's Joe Schmoo or Roger Clemons. Give the guy a break.

08-03-2004, 07:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sp0rAdiC Insane Location: VT	I help out with my brother's baseball team sometimes, and it's horrible how these people will yell and act like complete assholes, but won't bother to volunteer to help out at all. They won't help ump in the field, they won't even work the concession stand, but they feel they can bitch and complain about how the other volunteers made a bad call or something. It's rediculous.

08-04-2004, 02:17 PM	#16 (permalink)
bond007 Junkie Location: too far from Texas	sounds like some people owe Clemens an apology!

08-04-2004, 05:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	hmm, i find it hard to believe that something like that could be TOTALLY fabricated __________________ Feh.

08-05-2004, 06:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
JoeyB feeling tingly	Have any of the other parents or fans at the game came out to say what they saw? I respect the fact that there are always 2 sides to a situation, but I don't trust a 20 year old umpire OR a man who can get confused enough to think that a piece of shattered lumber in his hand is actually a small round baseball. ("I thought it was the ball! I thought it was the ball!") Have any of the local tv stations interviewed anyone else who was at the game? __________________ My mom is a Diamondbacks fan. She really likes the Big Unit

08-05-2004, 02:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
JoeyB feeling tingly	UPDATE: Ben Walker / Associated Press Roger Clemens was given an emphatic apology Thursday for "unjustly" being ejected from his 10-year-old son's baseball game last weekend in Colorado. David King, president of tournament organizer Triple Crown Sports, said "Mr. Clemens was a non-aggressor and a victim of mistaken identity and confusion" by an upset umpire. Clemens was asked to leave son Kacy's game Saturday in Craig, Colo., when a 22-year-old ump said the Houston Astros pitcher spit a sunflower seed at him. Moments earlier, Kacy was called out on a stolen base attempt - the fielder later admitted he missed the tag - and the Rocket watched the rest of the contest from a parking lot. "Mr. Clemens never raised his voice, never physically confronted our official, nor was he ever on the field of play," King said in a written statement, underlining those words. "Mr. Clemens was unjustly asked to leave the field of play," King said. "For all of this, we apologize to Mr. Clemens." King spoke to the future Hall of Famer by telephone to apologize personally. Clemens was sitting on a bucket, behind a fence near the first base dugout, when Kacy was called out at second base in the middle innings of a game the Bakersfield (Calif.) Curve won 11-5. The Katy coaches and fans complained about the call, but witnesses said Clemens never said a word. The umpire came over to quiet the ruckus, and said he was hit in the pants cuff by a sunflower seed spit by Clemens. Clemens left without an argument and said "he didn't want to be distraction and to let the boys play ball," Katy manager Doug Hanson said. King said the Katy coaches were contesting the call and "our official was upset and angered and approached the area to remove someone. In our official's judgment, a seed had come from the area during the coaches' arguments. "After reviewing the situation, including the location of the official, it is impossible to believe that a seed was spit at our official by Roger Clemens or anyone." King did not identify the young umpire, but said he was a schoolteacher and in his seventh year of calling games. "With all the complaining the Katy coaches were doing, one of them probably deserved to be gone," King said. "But the vision and the reality, it took it in a direction that didn't happen." __________________ My mom is a Diamondbacks fan. She really likes the Big Unit

08-05-2004, 02:52 PM	#23 (permalink)
JoeyB feeling tingly	The lesson in all of this..... Don't have children. __________________ My mom is a Diamondbacks fan. She really likes the Big Unit

08-06-2004, 05:31 AM	#24 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	this lesson in all this... shoot first then run for cover when you hit the wrong guy... linkage

08-06-2004, 02:02 PM	#25 (permalink)
jobu Crazy	since i started this thread and it appears that the truth is not what was first reported, i apologize to roger for bashing him.