Halx

Kobe is back! He's this generation's MJ.
Odom is gonna be this generation's Pippen.

I don't know what it is, but I think this team has the potential to be the most entertaining show since... showtime.

Rudy T plays a running game and he can whip LA into shape. The thing that the team lacked with Phil Jackson was a work ethic. One of Kobe's specific demands of Rudy was that he restore this. We're gonna see some hustle, like the Pistons.

A couple days ago, I heard GP wanted to be bought out of his contract, but now I'm hearing that both he and Malone will be back. GP in a running game? Holy shit!

A lot of people think losing Shaq was the worst thing the Lakers could do. Maybe they won't win the championship this year, but they will be an awesome team to watch. I think our centers will do their job well. All we need on a running team is hustle and boards. Plus, if by chance we land Vlade, we'll have a passing center for the few possessions where we wanna slow it down.

Screw all the haters who think the Lakers are going to hell. I have confidence in my team.

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djtestudo

I am happy for the Lakers (grudgingly ) because I don't like to see great franchises go completely to the crapper.

The problem is, they don't have a real center now. Brian Grant is fine in the East, but against the guys in the West that Shaq could generally beat, he's going to get killed.

This does look like a nice team, however, and they will make the playoffs.

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Averett

Of course Koby is going to resign. Shaq is gone, so he'll be running the show, just like he thought he has been all of these years.

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dylanmarsh

I'm glad to see you're staying on the bandwagon, but the Lakers are not going to go anywhere else they figure out how to play some better D. With no real inside pressence, the Lake Show ain't gonna be that great this year. I would go so far as to say that the Suns will finish ahead of Lakers in the standings next season.

ForwardtoDeath

so what's the lineup going to look like for the lakers this year? they have three power fowards (malone, grant and odom) so who is going to be playing where. I list grant as a power forward because there is no way I can see him playing center in the west so thats gotta be the position they have him at.

Halx

C: Grant
PF: Malone
SF: Odom
SG: Bryant
PG: Payton

I think the options for a better center are Dampier and Vlade .. we'll see

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Halx

Also addressing a few issues: Kobe's numbers went down last season due to 2 things... 1) Sharing the ball with the 2 other HOF's and 2) He lost a bit of weight in the offseason because of all the distractions. He should be bulking up again this offseason so he can come tear it up like he did in 2002-2003.

Also, GP only sucked last year because he was caught in Phil Jackson's triangle offense.. which was greek to him.

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BigGov

Why will Kobe be bulking up this off-season? If anything he'll have more distractions, and the possibility of him spending a good portion of time in jail has to mess with his mind a little.

Is Malone coming back for sure? I don't remember hearing anything about that.

Kobe isn't the next MJ. MJ's teams has less talent and still won.

Comparing Odom to Pippen is an insult to Pippen.

Although, it will be interesting to see them lose to better teams in the west this year, like Houston, San Antonio, or Minnesota

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grumpyolddude

The Lakers should look to make some more moves. Malone + Grant + Payton = too damn old! Add Vlade? Even MORE age, less athleticism. Odom still has a lot to prove, and Kobe needs to worry more about winning, instead of how bright his personal star shines.

Rudy T. is a great coach, but he's dealt with great, selfless talent in the past. This bunch of Lakers hasn't met that measure yet.

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dtheriault

I hate to disagree with someone that I have complete respect and admiration for, but GP sucked in many ways.

1. He's getting too slow to play quality defense, without shaq behind him to clog the lane against quick driving point guards it will only get worse.

2. Phil loves to win and he played Fisher over gary in the 4th quarter in the playoffs. That speaks volumes.

3. I hate when people call GP a HOF player. I mean he's realllllly good and I loved his hustle and bustle in the past but when you say HOF you are saying:

jerry west
john stockton
magic
isiah

are you saying GP belongs in that group?

I'm interested in seeing what happens next year with D. George, Luke and Brian Cook. I'm also really going to enjoy watching Odom again.

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BigGov

Gary Payton is a Hall of Famer. This isn't baseball, this is basketball, so the requirements are far less.

He played great for over a decade, one bad season does not ruin a Hall of Fame career.

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dtheriault

regarding payton's HOF credentials.

He's never made an All NBA first team in his entire career.
Never an MVP (pretty tough to be voted MVP i'll admit)

I'll throw two more names at you. As contemporaries, but not on stockton's level.

Kevin Johnson
Tim Hardaway

Tim used to break peoples ankles, and Kevin was soooo solid.

Both of them made All NBA first team on multiple years. Both of them had higher scoring averages for multiple years and both of them averaged over 10 assists per game for multiple seasons and have several seasons with a 9+ apg average. I think Payton had only 1 year with a 9+ average. Plus it took Payton 4 or 5 years to really get going.

Do I think he'll get elected. Yes.
Should he be mentioned in the same HOF breath as Shaq, Kobe, and Karl.

No way.

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Jesus Malverde

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Side Notes:
There is no way Kobe is the next MJ. There probably won't be another MJ for a long, long time. He was the epitome of an all-around player, on and off the court. He never went public with his feelings about his teammates. He was a Grade A asshole (read the books), but his teammates respected him because he was such a class act with the media. He was America's player.

Malone is not coming back for sure. Last I heard, the Spurs were courting him (dammit). Odom is not like Pippen. He has not played with Kobe yet and they have a long way to go to establish chemistry: Look what happened this year with GP and Karl. I think they are both on their last legs. It's easy to blame the triangle offense when your entire team doesn't have confidence in you. GP got schooled by Chauncey Billups, and he got the Finals MVP for it. Malone got injured this year and missed a lot of games. He probably isn't looking forward to this "running offense" at his age.

Worst of all, IMHO, the man who was holding this team together has packed his bags and left the Staples Center. Phil Jackson was the glue for this team, and he's gone. Don't get me wrong, Rudy T is a great coach, but he's never dealt with a team like this. LA fans will not settle for second best. His Houston title teams remind me of the Pistons: they played like a team. He's got to gel this team together when very few of the players on the roster have experience playing together. He's got a real tough job ahead; this is definitely going to be a trying year.

Los Angeles won't be a western conference cellar-dweller by any means, but their domination is over.

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Cowman

When the starting lineup includes Grant (useless center), Malone (too old, will he even be playing?), and Payton (too old, will he even be a starter?)...then that's pretty depressing. Do you honestly believe this team can keep up with the new-Nuggets, Spurs, Mavericks, Pacers, Pistons, Heat, etc? They've got a star in the making (odom), a superstar who won't pass the ball (Kobey), and a few "up and comers"(Walton mainly)......other then that, its a pretty sad lineup.

Here's my bold prediction(assuming the Laker's don't add anyone of note between now and the start of the season): Clippers finish off with a better record then the Lakers.

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Kurant

Thank god someone cleared up the Kobe being MJ statement.

MJ made people better around him. The only person Kobe is concerned about, is Kobe. He'll get his 25 shots a game. At any cost. And whine like a little baby at any cost as well. It doesn't change the fact he's the most exciting scorer, maybe ever, to play in the NBA. Guys got more talent that MJ ever had. Maybe one day he'll grow up and be the leader he needs to be. Then you can compare him to MJ.

Odom the next Pippen? Quite possibly. This guy is good.

The bench is much more depleated. No Fish. You haven't signed Malone yet. And unless you have Vlade, you've got an overpaid, overrated center. The entire Midwest with the exception of Utah will probably run the Lakers of the table. They can't compete with Sacramento now, and the Suns made some decent offseason moves. Lakers are probably the 8th or 9th team in the west. Still, respectable by all means. They'll be fine. Not to mention, Vince Carter and Jason Kidd are still out there. Jerry Buss isn't going to be sitting still with those 2 names still out there, and an aging Gary Payton making 5.5 million next year.

goddfather40

Kobe is not as selfish, greedy, as everyone makes it out to be. I've been claiming that for ever. Can you please tell me which year Kobe shot the ball 25 times a game? He averaged 23 FA per game in '02-'03, but he also averaged 30 PPG. If he averages 25 this coming year, so what? He's the focal point now. Something would be wrong if he didn't get 25 shots a game. Also, Kobe's assists numbers have been good during the Phil era, around 5 APG. That is only half an assist or so less than MJ during his time under Phil and the triangle. Kobe was never the one asking for more touches. It was always Shaq, Payton, or even Glen Rice.

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Cowman

First of all, 23 FA per game is a lot, and only putting in 30 ppg reflects his poor shooting percentage(~43 percent last year). 5.5 assists per game? With Shaq down the middle? Are you kidding me? I could get 5.5 assists per game playing with shaq. MJ had less assists per game because he had nobody comparable to pass it to! Even playing on the terrible Wizards, MJ still managed ~5 assists per game. There's NO reason why Kobe shouldn't have had upwards of 8, 9, or 10 assists per game playing with Shaq.

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goddfather40

Let me know at the end of next season how many assists per game Dwayne Wade has with Shaq

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Cross-Over

Actually, you are incorrect about a couple things.

Payton made All NBA first team twice (97-98 and 99-00).

Kevin Johnson never made All NBA first team, and Hardaway made it once (96-97), not multiple years. Check out HERE for the list.

KJ had five seasons of averaging 20 plus points per game, and Hardaway also did it 5 times. Payton did it seven times though, and he has a higher career scoring average (barely) and his highest scoring average for a year is more that KJ's and Hardaway's highest.

Maybe you mean that the two scored more in particular years than Payton, but I don't see what point that proves.

For refrence: KJ played 12 seasons, Hardaway 13, and Payton has played 14.

jester

Brian Grant is not a center, especially in the Western Conference. Unless they pick up Dampier, they're going to find it difficult making the play-offs.

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dtheriault

My wife tells me that every day.

Sorry, I was getting that info from a link I posted above. I was trying to do some research and I forgot to check my source.

I stand, sit, and lay corrected.

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cameroncrazy822

I can't see how the analogies to Jordan for Kobe. He is not Jordan. Jordan never disappeared in the post season nor, most importantly, the NBA finals. Jordan did what it took to make his team win. He had the ability to make his will literally take over a game so his team would win. Kobe has a tendency to disappear and moreover hasn't shown to this point he can make his team mates play better. Kobe is an outstanding player but until he does this stuff on his own he is still just another Jordan wannabe. Can he eventually step up to be favorably compared to Jordan... absolutely but he has yet to prove it.

powerclown

As everybody is saying, the question will be, can Kobe be the great team leader/motivator that MJ was? I have my doubts...

Halx

Well, let's see here. Kobe Bryant is 5 years younger now than Michael was when he actually started winning his championships. Take what you know about Kobe now and give it 5 years of maturation. It's mindblowing.

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cameroncrazy822

Let's delete the time MJ played college. So we now have 3 years left for Kobe to step up his game to legendary standards. He now has his opportunity to mold a new team around himself and "his supporting cast." We will see.. He has the skills, let's see if he has the heart.

Mitzkrieg

looks like lakers are gonna pick up Vlade and maybe give him the $4.9 mil left on the payroll. Malone and Horace Grant won't be back. i coulda told ya that even if they weren't gonna pick up Vlade or make a stab at Dampier(which btw, looks like knicks are trying to land him)

i'm looking forward to next season. i think the lakers, depsite what the nay sayers think, will do well. i still believe they have as much of a shot of at least making the conference finals as Detroit was projected to win the finals.

and yeah, kobe is not MJ. i don't think anyone will ever be MJ. but give him time to mature and i think his team skills will improve enough to be able to reasonably compare the two.

Halx

Don't count Malone out. Some say that with Vlade's signing, Malone will look at it as a better environment to return to.

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Cozmo

Why does everyone try to compare Kobe to MJ? You can look at all the stats you want, but it is difficult to put into numbers exactly what MJ brought to the table. MJ was the greatest single weapon in Basketball ever. Everyone else pales in comparison to him as for what he did for the Bulls and winning championships. As long as Jordan was on your team, you knew there was always a chance of winning the game-no matter how badly he (or the rest of the team) was playing during the game. I don't get that same feeling with Kobe. It seems like if Kobe is having a bad night, then he brings the rest of the team down with him. The Lakers were successful only because they had both Shaq and Kobe and it was unusual for both to have an off night simultaneously. Kobe needs to develop that winning attitude-and that total confidence that MJ had despite how he was feeling that particular day or how his teammates were playing. Until that happens, Kobe will be a great talent but certainly not of the same caliber as MJ. Can we stop the comparisons now?

Cowman

Remember the start of last season, when Kobe had to (try and) do it all himself? Well that's what all, or some, of the next 5 years could look like...even with Vlad. Think about what that will do to his body..he might not even get a chance to play past his early 30's..

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Kurant

Malone won't come back for league minimum again. The Lakers aren't good enough to win a championship. It's a re-building year, and why the hell would he put himself through more torture with a team that can't get him what he wants. Yes, that's right, can't.

It's going to take alot more then Divac to get this team to the big dance.

Yes, signing Vlade is a big step, IMO that makes them without a doubt a playoff threat in the west. But be honest, are they REALLY good enough to be the top dog in the west? To me, not yet. But, we'll see whent he season gets going, maybe this team will surprise everyone. I don't think Malone takes that chance.

IMO, Malone will sign with the Spurs. If they really want him.

Cross-Over

Perhaps I am too anal about statistics some times, but for the record, Jordan was 28 at the end of the 90-91 season when he won his first title.

Kobe turns 26 next month. That makes Jordan, about 2 and a half years younger "when he actually started winning championships" than you stated (5).

Check out HERE, HERE and HERE for verification.

Kobe was younger when he first won, and has 3 to boot, but Shaq was the driving force and the NBA Finals MVP all three title years. Kobe was his Pippen. Out of all the years Shaq and Kobe played together, Bryant outscored Shaq twice, and they lost to the Spurs and the Pistons in the playoffs of those years.

Now about the comparisons:

Kobe has yet to win a League MVP or Defensive player of the year award. He has never shoot 50 percent from the field for a season. He has only averaged over 2 steals per game once in his career. He has only averaged 1 block per game once in his career. He has not yet averaged over 7 rebounds a game or 8 assists per game. He has not averaged over 30 points per game for a year.

This is through the age of 26, including 2 more years of NBA experience than Jordan had by the age of 26.

Jordan, by the time he finished the 88-89 season at the age of 26, had won a League MVP and Defensive Player of the year award. He shot over 50 percent from the field 3 out of 5 seasons. He averaged over 2 steals per game every season. He avearaged over a block per game 3 out of 5 seasons. He avearged over 7 rebounds and 8 assists per game for a season
(8 and 8). He averaged over 30 points per game 3 out of 5 seasons.

For the record, Jordan's second year he only played 18 games due to injury. His scoring and field goal percentage don't favor the statistics I posted, but his steals and blocks averages do. It's about a push, so I included that year anways

Statistically they don't compare at similar ages. As far as the intangibles that make a player great, I think others in this thread have commented very well on what makes Jordan a better player than Bryant.

Scoring was up in the league when Jordan was early in his career, but unfortunately there is not a consensus on how to draw fair comparisons in such situations. Regardless, the League MVP and Defensive Player of the year aren't a product of a high scoring league, more so, they were great accomplishments achieved at a time when Bird and Magic were also in their prime.

Hrothgar

What really sucks is I couldn't get Heat season tickets.

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cameroncrazy822

As far as I'm concerned Kobe pales in comparison for all the reasons you enumerated. Kobe has the physical talent however legend transcends the physical and becomes emotional and will driven. The inability for a player to settle for anything less than winning... no matter what it takes. That's Jordan's mystique and legend. Kobe has no of that yet. Again it's a matter of heart and will which Kobe hasn't shown he possesses yet. I hope he , if not-guilty, gets the opportunity to prove what his game is really about.

espi

Well, this degenerated into a Kobe hatefest (not to say that I don't agree...I just don't think you can favorably compare Kobe, or anyone, to MJ).

The more import thing the Lakers need to look at is getting someone to draw doubles off Kobe; otherwise teams are going to collapse on him everytime he touches the ball.

You can argue that Odom or Butler will be that guy, but as an opposing coach, I would rather play single coverage on those too, and let their defenders play help defense on Kobe. I would rather take my chances leaving Odom open than letting Kobe get off an eas(y|ier) shot.

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that Kobe, Odom and Butler all play the same position. (I know Odom was playing the 4 in Miami, but he's really more of a 3, and he played the 2 sporadically as a Clip). So, the Lakers are either gonna run a four guard team (Payton, Kobe, Odom, Butler), or one of those are gonna have to come off the bench along with George. I just don't think there's enough minutes in the game to accomodate all of those players. (Although, if I were Kupchak, I would look at trading George and trying to bring in a backup PG. Golden State now has three PGs under contract...pick up the phone, man).

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cameroncrazy822

I understand what you're saying by the Kobe hatefest inference but this thread was started to promote Kobe's future ascension to Michael Jordan's throne- being the best basketball player ever. I too am amazed at Kobe's talents for playing basketball and am a huge fan. This guy has all the tools needed to start the climb but it just disturbs me when people incorrectly compare the the two players. Michael Jordan is one of those few players that transcends the game... not only in skill, professional accomplishment, and reliability but one whose unparalleled resume is just unexplainable due to the intangible. Explainable only if given the ability to factor in the intangible: heart, dedication, and the undying will to succeed. Kobe must climb this mountain of intangibles to be placed upon the legend that is "Mountain MJ." External supposition, projection, nor assumption will do it for him. The era of "Showtime" is over. It is now "Kobe's Time." We'll all soon see if Kobe is worth his weight in hype... or at least worth 320lbs+.

Halx

Well MJ obviously wasn't the end-all be-all of basketball 'cause he couldn't run a franchise for shit. I think he's one of the greatest to play the game, but whatever level of ascension you're putting MJ on is purely speculative in a fan's eye. I'm just talking about court-wise.

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Mitzkrieg

well, i guess i wont count Malone out just yet. i heard about the way he told the lakers to go after Vlade first before they worry about him. his comments sounded encouraging. if he does come back, and if he's healthy and can make it through the season without any probs, i'd be saying the lakers still have a shot at making it to the finals. i think with Shaq outta the mix, Karl will be more apt to take the shots he knows he can, instead of being so gun shy like he was last season. kobe and karl can be a potential threat at the pick and roll like stockton and malone were. kobe just needs to learn it. i can't tell you how many times i was pissed last season when i saw perfect pick and roll opportunities were missed because kobe kept the ball when getting double teamed, grrrrr....

i'm hopeful

Jadedfox

Is it football season yet?

--jaded

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cameroncrazy822

Running a franchise is not what we're are or have been talking baout when MJ iwas concerned. Nor did we compare Kobe's "other" court-wise issues that are now going on. "Court-wise" IS the only comparison Hal and I'm just indicating that there still aren't a lot of court-wise comparisions to be able to put Kobe up with Michael. It's a team sport but Kobe, as Jordan did, will have to be the end-all-be-all be all for his Lakers. He must make them better and win championships without a Shaq Diesel as Jordan did. As far as MJ being one of the best basketball players ever... he's overwhelminglu regarded as THE best to ever play the game. I wuwish the Lakers well as it would be a shame for such a storied franchise to go into a downward spiral. With Kobe on board I think that scenario is impossible, I just want to see what he can do without one of the most dominating centers the league has ever seen.