Halx

Sorry guys, but I gotta start this up. I just watched a great Dodgers/Diamondbacks game that could have never been quite as interesting had it been in the American League.

The big difference between the two leagues is the designated hitter. Only in place in the American League, this is a position that comes to the plate in place of the pitcher. The DH doesn't go out on the field to play defense, so his ONLY job is to hit the ball and run the bases. This means that it's usually a power hitter.

The very presence of the DH turns the typical American League game into a hitting game. Since most of the lineup is capable of smacking the ball hard, very little attention is played to the little things like stealing bases, bunting and pinch hitting.

In the National League, there is no DH, so the pitcher has to bat as well. It's pretty much a forgone conclusion that the pitcher is a worthless hitter and 9 out of 10 times is just as good as an out. This gives rise to a whole new strategy when the games are close. If you're deep in the game and you have a successful pitcher on the mound, you're tied or down by a run, and his spot is coming up to bat: do you pinch hit for him or leave him in to make out, but continue to pitch the game?

The very presence of the pitcher in the lineup forces a complicated challenge of juggling spots in the lineup with pinch hitters and limited substitute players. Here's a good situation that happened today (maybe a few things incorrect, but it's still the same situation):

The Dodgers were down by 1 in the 8th inning. The hottest hitter in the league, Paul Lo Duca, was getting the day off, so he was on the bench. 1 out. The Dodgers NEEDED to make a run right then and there, and the catcher's spot was up the bat. David Ross was filling in at catcher for Lo Duca, but the manager Jim Tracy had decided to draw his ace from his deck and he lifted Ross for a pinch hitter, Jason Grabowski. The tactic here was to hold Paul Lo Duca over the D'backs heads. He wasn't gonna play his card yet, because 1st base was open and if he sent Lo Duca up there, they would just walk him.

Grabowski got a hit, followed by another hit from Alex Cora. They had runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs. Paul Lo Duca still couldn't hit because 1st base was open for them to walk him, so they pinch hit for the pitcher with Robin Ventura. That's strategy. Now, unfortunately Ventura struck out. Dave Roberts drew a walk to load the bases, though. So now with 2 outs, bases loaded and nowhere to put Lo Duca, Jim Tracy put him in the game replacing Cesr Izturis, who just happened to be the Dodger's 3rd best hitter on a 14 game hitting streak. Now that's strategy of course, it didn't work out because Lo Duca, the league's hardest man to strike out, struck out. Oh well. But the point of it all was that it was interesting, exciting and suspenseful to watch.

The Dodgers mounted a run in the 9th and the guy who replaced Grabowski in the lineup and Cesar Izturis on the field, Jose Hernandez, who was batting .366 at the time, was at the plate with 2 outs and a runner on 3rd. He struck out. Blame the hitting coach on that, but it goes to show that there is much more going on in a National League game.

There are other differences between NL and AL games. As mentioned, the AL is mostly about power and hits. The NL is more about strategy and manufacturing runs; stealing bases, sacrificing, squeezing, making contact. We saw the 2002 Angels incorporate these NL tactics into the AL game and they ended up as champions. As a result, we then started to see more AL teams pull the same tactics last year.

AL teams complain that they are at a disadvantage during Interleague play on the road because their game is disrupted by the loss of a key spot in the lineup AND their pitchers have EVEN LESS skill at hitting than the NL pitchers. This alone is a good reason to tip your hat at the National League.

That's baseball. Anyone care to disagree?

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djtestudo

I will agree that the lack of the DH in the NL means more stratagy late in the games, but I will disagree about that making it better.

The pitchers are not good hitters. Plus, their at-bats and being on base (on those rare occasions) increases the risk of injury.

The DH allows another bat to go in the lineup and help your team instead of an almost automatic out at the end of the lineup. You save your bench for when you need it, instead of wasting players on a single at-bat only to be removed five minutes later.

The DH can also be used to give a player a rest while keeping them in the lineup. The most popular use, and probably it's best, is giving a player who is a defensive liability the chance to remain in the majors by doing what they are good at.

A good example of a more flexable use of the DH can be seen in the Orioles this year. We have two secondbasemen who could and should be starting somewhere right now. One spent spring training and April on the DL, so we needed to know what he could do. Since the other was hitting well, we plugged him into the DH spot, and he hit really well in May. Because of this, we will probably be able to trade one with a lot more confidence and for a lot more in value then if one was sitting on the bench every night.

I love the DH, and what it brings to baseball. I do like watching NL (and interleague) games at times to see the difference, so I really don't mind if the leagues keep their rules as they are.

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BonesCPA

This is a Coke vs. Pepsi argument. Both have their place (obviously), but it depends your preferences in this case will generally fall into what team(s) you root for. Being a Phillies fan (1980 was the best year of my life), I am big fan of the strategy needed in dealing with pinch hitters, the double switch and the rest of the challenges of dealing with a totem pole for a batter. I am not saying I don't enjoy a good AL game, but generally I consider a good pitching duel a good game, so the DH doesn't necessarily add to my enjoyment.

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grayman

This seems like a bit of an overstatement. Adding the DH only changes the lineup by one player, so even in the NL, most of the line-up could still be able to smack the ball. Even in the AL, someone will still be batting 9th. Very few teams have a line-up full of great hitters, and the pitcher is rarely the only culprit. Further, I think that there has been a generally de-emphasis of both stealing bases and bunting as most teams and players just try to hit the long ball.

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kutulu

First of all I'm a DBacks fan and love the NL.

Changing that one batter makes things very different. Look at how much Schillings K/9 rate has dropped. In the last 3 years it was well over 10, now it's less than 8. His opponents batting average has also gone up 20 points.

I don't think the double switch is all that great and it's annoying to have to pull a reliever because you need the pinch hitter. That said, I still prefer the NL. The use of the DH allows 1 dimensional players to continue their careers.

Small ball has diminished in both leagues as Moneyball has taken over. Bunting is now viewed by most as a waste of an out.


RE: The DBacks-Dodgers game on Sunday. Great stuff. I loved seeing Valverde strike LoDuca out. He's a great pitcher when he's on. Jose Hernandez is a windmill though. Sure, he's hitting well this season but striking out is what he does best. I don't know what your hitting coach has done to him, his K/BB ratio is way down from his career numbers. He'll eventually revert as has Beltre (lost 80 points from his batting average in May).

Midlandmadman

I like the Detroit Tigers . That being said I have grown used too the DH. (I hated it when I was a kid.) I do like having the pitcher bat though. I dig inter-league play when the National league teams get to use The DH and The American League pitchers have to bat. I guess I am not for or against it...... (so why did I bother writing)......

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grayman

Isn't it just as reasonable to think that Schilling's stats are down because he switched leagues? I know that having to face new batters that you don't regularly face can sometimes skew a pitcher's stats until they settle in.

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grumpyolddude

Late inning strategies are definitely different, and so are roster decisions. AL managers are more likely to keep a solid defensive utility player on the squad, or a young player with great speed, regardless of their hitting. NLers need to rely more on pinch hitters.

I am in an AL market, and have had the pleasure of watching the extended careers of some great hitters due to the DH (primary example: Rusty Staub, a career NLer, who came to the Tigers and DH'd for several years). The position also tends to get good hitters back from injuries more quickly, since hitting is less physically stressful than fielding. It's a bonus for the fans.

I grew up spending plenty of summer days and nights at Tiger stadium way before the DH rule. I didn't like the rule, but came to accept it and now see the AL/NL games as different, not better or worse. The way managers respond to the changes that they face when they cross league boundaries, especially in the World Series, adds to the drama of the sport. I like that AL and NL are slightly different games.

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Krycheck

I like the DH for the fact that I get to see more hitting. It also adds more stars to the lineup as in the case of the Angels. There's four starting outfielders on that team. Without the dh you'd prolly have to trade one of them.
And yes it adds more years to some players careers. Look at a player like Mike Piazza. He couldn't play every day as a catcher and had to learn to play first base. If he had been in the AL he could dh half the time to give his knees a rest.

I'm not gonna say that the dh is the way to go. I like that it does make the both leagues different and that's a good thing.

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gibingus

i used to loathe the DH.

the strategic aspect of the NL game is by far more interesting, for all the reasons hal points out. it requires better management. plus, it absolutely rules when the pitcher comes up with the big hit like Kerry Wood did in last year's post season. also, pitchers like andy petite who can hit have a great time in the NL.

but thinking of the DH brings me back to babe ruth, who not only created the slugger's era but came off the mound and went to right field to keep his bat in the lineup. he never really pitched again, and he was a great hurler for the bosox.

i guess i am glad there are both leagues.

but i still loathe astroturf.

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pan6467

I grew up being able to see both sides. With Cincy and Cleveland, you get the best of both worlds, well sometimes.

I think the DH just adds a difference to the leagues, which is cool.

The AL has always been a hitters dominant league, while the NL more of a pitchers league. Cobb, Ruth, Gerhig, Mantle, Dimaggio, Williams and so on all AL, while few "modern age" HOF pitchers came from the AL. NL had Koufax, Drysdale, Carlton, Gibson, Seaver, Robin Roberts, Dean and so on, while few hitters have come from the NL.

I've always felt the leagues differences
are a necessary part of baseball. Let the Bombers hit a zillion homeruns while the pitchers finesse and pitch low run games. Then in the WS watch the fireworks of hitters meeting pitchers and see who comes out on top. the 90's Indians and Braves are great examples of this. Unfortunately, the Tribe had NO pitching and teams do need a balance.
As a purist I hate interleague play unless it is a natural rivalry (like Cubs/WS, Tribe/Reds, Mets/Yankees, Astros/Rangers, Twins/Brewers, Cards/Royals Giants/A's, Phillies/ Orioles, D'backs/ Mariners, D'Rays/Marlins, Dodgers/Angels Tigers/Pirates, and so on).

I think inter league needs to be trimmed down to at most 6 games, 2 3 game series at each rivals ballpark. The whole inter league idea sucks. Baseball is not football or basketball, there are 2 distinct leagues and they match for the WS.

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canuckguy

but you think that would help him in the long run as the hitters don't know his stuff and should have a hard time against him. as for the dh/no dh, I think its a good thing because watching the pitcher hit is a joke, most of them look so bad it looks like a wounded duck flapping about. like i said most of them. some are decent with the stick, but all that being said was cool to see nomo jack one out on weekend. i love a pitchers duel more than a 9-7 slugfest but i would rather see pedro throw a hook to a dh than randy johnson any day.....but i love how the national league pitchers have to back up there actions if they hit a batter..etc. dunno i like it the way it is. too undecided.....

Derwood

The DH is shit, and here is why:

Imagine an NBA player who never had to run the floor. He could just stand under the basket and only had to play offense. He didn't have to play defense. He is a "designated scorer", and because he doesn't have to tire himself out running or playing defense, he makes for a higher scoring game and the player can play longer in his career.

See my point?

The very first rule of Baseball:

1.01
Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

Adding a DH means it's a game of 10 players each.

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djtestudo

Actually, it's more like if every time you got the ball back, you called a TO and replaced a great defensive player with a great offensive player. Hell, most teams at the end of games do just that.

Should we complain about them for using SIX men instead of FIVE?

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dylanmarsh

I think one of the major things we are overlooking here is that AL and NL teams create their rosters differently because the presence or non-presence of the DH. The NL will always be geared towards pitching because it has more of an influence during their season than hitting. In the AL, there's more of a balance between hitting and pitching that a GM has to consider when forming the roster.

For example, David Ortiz of the Red Sox would have a better chance to make more money and be more productive in the AL than in the NL due to his horrible defensive skills. The Sox, because of the DH, have to spend their money a bit different than say, the Giants.

On the other hand, Curt Schilling, whose numbers are slightly off this season, would most likely fare better in the NL due to facing a pitcher batting at least twice in a game. A good example of this was in the Giants-Red Sox game last weekend. The Sox had runners on second and third with 2 outs in the 5th and Pokey Reese at the plate. The Giants walk Reese to get to Pedro Martinez, who hadn't had a hit since 1997. If this game were at Fenway, Reese would be the one batting with the bases loaded. Obviously, there isn't anyway of knowing what would've happened with Reese instead of Pedro, but I'd rather have Reese up there. Pedro struck out and the Sox went on to lose, 6-4.

One more thing regarding the DH, is that the MLBPA will never give up the DH. It extends the careers of many players like Edgar Martinez and, most likely, Barry Bonds.

djtestudo

This is a critical point as well, and one that is rarely mentioned.

In fact, it wouldn't suprise me to see the NL get the DH rule in place within a decade as part of a compromise in a complete restructuring of the salary system.

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Blackthorn

My nine vs. your nine is the way baseball was built and meant to be played. The DH trvializes the pitcher and extends careers of "players" who should have long since retired.

Yeah...I'm a fan of baseball. Not what they play in the so called junior circuit.

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djtestudo

If they drop the DH, I think they ought to go to a 45' distance between the mound and home plate, nine ball five strike counts, batters telling pitcher whether they want a high or low pitch (and the pitcher required to oblidge), and throwing the ball at the runners to get them out.

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dylanmarsh

And to your TFP fantasy team!

I just realized that you and I are squaring off this week against one another. Thome's seems to have been the difference so far with batting; thank god I have Pedro and the pitching, otherwise this wouldn't have even been close.

pan6467

This is exactly why it will take a lot longer to drop the DH in the AL or get the DH in the NL.

The difference keeps people people interested and NL'ers and AL'ers fighting.

Once they go either way and get both leagues to do the same thing, the game will lose fans who liked the DH or who liked the pitchers hitting and the more strategic form of baseball.

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Derwood

I hear they've proposed giving up the DH in return for expanding major league rosters to 26 players (adding one more ML salary to each squad) but the MLBPA has shot it down

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Kurant

Someone already said it, it's a Coke VS Pepsi argument.

However, I'm a purist, and I played baseball all the way into the college level and pitchers in the game always took hacks when I was growing up. Why should it be any different? I've yet to understand the reason FOR the DH. It makes absolutley no sense. My biggest problem with the DH besides it really changes interleague play, is the fact guys like Paul Molitor made his career a hall of fame career getting 3000 hits as a DH. Frank Thomas, (insert washed up players name here). And soon, you'll see Bonds hit 756 as a DH in the AL.

djtestudo

The DH originally had an important purpose to the AL. Back in '73 when the rule was added, the National League was much more popular then the AL. They had more stars, had won something like 15 of 16 All-Star games, etc. So, the AL decided to add this in to boost offensive production since even back then it was understood that chicks (and the average fan) dig the long ball. This provided an offensive boost that helped increase the popularity of AL teams. As a side benifit, it manages to lengthen the careers of aging superstars that can still hit.

Derwood, there is a reason why the PA has refused that compromise. The DH is more often then not a player that makes a LOT of money, pushing salaries up. If they did away with it and just added a roster spot, it would probably be just another guy making league minimum which drags salaries down.

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pan6467

Hank Aarn spent his last 2 years as a DH. Hit 22 Hr.s, so instead of 756 Bonds would only need to hit 736.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

djtestudo

Huh?

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Derwood

Yes, but had their not been a DH, would Aaron have retired or played the field?

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djtestudo

Probably played the field.

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