Baseball substitution question.. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 06-02-2004, 08:57 PM

Ok, I'm very well versed in the rules of baseball, but something struck me just now and I'm a little puzzled.

Playing an American League game, can a player play as the DH for... say.. 6 innings, then come in as a relief pitcher for one, and then go back to being the DH?

I'm thinking that as long as he isn't lifted for another pitcher in the middle of his outing, it would be allowed. I just have no recollection of anyone attempting this.

The Brewers have a pitcher who they use as a pinch-hitter, so it may make sense for them to use him as a DH when they do interleague... but what if they need him to pitch in the same game?

forseti-6 · 06-02-2004, 09:05 PM

Don't quote me on this... but I think the way it works is, you have your DH, but whenever you replace him or switch positions, you lose the DH and that becomes the pitcher's spot.

pan6467 · 06-02-2004, 09:14 PM

From http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/of...s/batter_6.jsp

6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule. (a) In the event of inter league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows: 1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team. 2. In All Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree. (b) The Rule provides as follows: A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief. The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers. It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game. Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re enter the game in any capacity. The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order. A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run. A Designated Hitter is "locked" into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter. Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch hit for the Designated Hitter). Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter's turn to bat.

Basically it says if the DH plays defense the pitcher then bats, AND if the Pitcher plays another defense position after being lifted from pitching the DH spot is lost also. Also, the spot is locked and cannot be moved, from like the cleanup spot to 9th in the order.

Halx · 06-02-2004, 10:54 PM

Ok, so let me get this straight... if the DH spot changes position to P, then the DH is lost for the rest of the game and must be filled with either P or PH. Right?

BonesCPA · 06-03-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
Ok, so let me get this straight... if the DH spot changes position to P, then the DH is lost for the rest of the game and must be filled with either P or PH. Right?

Sounds correct.

paulybrklynny · 06-04-2004, 11:05 AM

sounds to me based on the OP's original question and the rules quoted here that this could be use tactically.

the brewers pitcher/outfielder (i forget his name) could be used as a dh and then brought in to pitch in say the 7th or 8 inning, and then left in the game as a defensive replacement in the outfield.

the pitcher that replaces him (presumably the closer) would in many instances not be due to bat in the 8th or 9th, and if so could then be pinch hit for.

so i guess, unless i'm misunderstanding the intent of the OP and the rules, yes. this brewers player (is it kieschnick?) could I think start as a dh, pitch an inning, and then remain in the game. the brewers would lose their dh in the order, but late in a game ccould/would presumably be using short-releivers & pinch-hitters anyway.

kutulu · 06-04-2004, 11:16 AM

kieschnick is an enigma. Last year, in 70 AB he led the team in slg% (including Sexson) and was 2nd in batting average. He's never been a very good pitcher but he's got a 1.90 ERA so far this year.

paulybrklynny · 06-04-2004, 11:30 AM

i read an artilce about him not that long ago.

he was a very good two way player at University of Texas from what I remember, but was encouraged to focus on hitting in the minors.

After a few years as a 4th-5th OF he was on his way out of the game, and decided he would give it a go at pitching again.

Apparently this has alos coincided with more dedication to physical fitness (though you cant really tell to look at him) and it sprolonging his career, and he's finding a secodn wind as a hitter as well.

He's certainly not the first to go from position player to pitcher (or vice versa), there have been quite a few of witch, of course, Babe Ruth is the most famous.

That continues to amaze me, he was probably the best left-handed pitcher in the game at the time.

06-02-2004, 08:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Baseball substitution question.. Ok, I'm very well versed in the rules of baseball, but something struck me just now and I'm a little puzzled. Playing an American League game, can a player play as the DH for... say.. 6 innings, then come in as a relief pitcher for one, and then go back to being the DH? I'm thinking that as long as he isn't lifted for another pitcher in the middle of his outing, it would be allowed. I just have no recollection of anyone attempting this. The Brewers have a pitcher who they use as a pinch-hitter, so it may make sense for them to use him as a DH when they do interleague... but what if they need him to pitch in the same game? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

06-02-2004, 09:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
forseti-6 Existentialist Location: New York City	Don't quote me on this... but I think the way it works is, you have your DH, but whenever you replace him or switch positions, you lose the DH and that becomes the pitcher's spot. __________________ "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss

06-02-2004, 09:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	From http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/of...s/batter_6.jsp 6.10 Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule. (a) In the event of inter league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows: 1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team. 2. In All Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree. (b) The Rule provides as follows: A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief. The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers. It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game. Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re enter the game in any capacity. The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order. A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run. A Designated Hitter is "locked" into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter. Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch hit for the Designated Hitter). Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter's turn to bat. Basically it says if the DH plays defense the pitcher then bats, AND if the Pitcher plays another defense position after being lifted from pitching the DH spot is lost also. Also, the spot is locked and cannot be moved, from like the cleanup spot to 9th in the order. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-02-2004, 10:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Ok, so let me get this straight... if the DH spot changes position to P, then the DH is lost for the rest of the game and must be filled with either P or PH. Right? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

06-04-2004, 11:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
paulybrklynny Upright	sounds to me based on the OP's original question and the rules quoted here that this could be use tactically. the brewers pitcher/outfielder (i forget his name) could be used as a dh and then brought in to pitch in say the 7th or 8 inning, and then left in the game as a defensive replacement in the outfield. the pitcher that replaces him (presumably the closer) would in many instances not be due to bat in the 8th or 9th, and if so could then be pinch hit for. so i guess, unless i'm misunderstanding the intent of the OP and the rules, yes. this brewers player (is it kieschnick?) could I think start as a dh, pitch an inning, and then remain in the game. the brewers would lose their dh in the order, but late in a game ccould/would presumably be using short-releivers & pinch-hitters anyway.

06-04-2004, 11:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	kieschnick is an enigma. Last year, in 70 AB he led the team in slg% (including Sexson) and was 2nd in batting average. He's never been a very good pitcher but he's got a 1.90 ERA so far this year.

06-04-2004, 11:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
paulybrklynny Upright	i read an artilce about him not that long ago. he was a very good two way player at University of Texas from what I remember, but was encouraged to focus on hitting in the minors. After a few years as a 4th-5th OF he was on his way out of the game, and decided he would give it a go at pitching again. Apparently this has alos coincided with more dedication to physical fitness (though you cant really tell to look at him) and it sprolonging his career, and he's finding a secodn wind as a hitter as well. He's certainly not the first to go from position player to pitcher (or vice versa), there have been quite a few of witch, of course, Babe Ruth is the most famous. That continues to amaze me, he was probably the best left-handed pitcher in the game at the time.