Bertuzzi punishment ???? (NHL) - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

silent_jay · 03-11-2004, 06:07 AM

28 games rest of the regular season + post season and if he can return will be determined next fall, what a fuckin joke I hope all the fuckin pussies that pissed and moaned and called for his head are happy, another episode blown out of proportion congrats, next time someone ends a career with a knee remember this and how people don't think that is a big deal, what a fuckin joke the NHL is Bettman ands Campbell are the biggest fuckin tossers I've ever seen.

Bertuzzi is a scapegoat for all the highsticking ealiers this year, they missed those calls they better hang Bertuzzi because people are bitching, and they may not have a chace to save face Fuckin joke

Hanxter · 03-11-2004, 06:07 AM

Bertuzzi suspended for the rest of the season (13 games = $501K) plus the playoffs and must reapply next season AND the Canucks have been fined $250K

Hanxter · 03-11-2004, 06:34 AM

oh yeah - and should they make the playoffs it could total 41 games

Kurant · 03-11-2004, 06:43 AM

He should be suspended. As far as criminal charges, what happens on the ice, IMO stays on the ice. If the NHL wants to punish you, thats rightfully so.

However, the Canadian Police are pending investigation on the subject, there was a small blurb about it on Rome is Burning.

The suspension isn't big enough. He purposely blindsided another human being, another hockey player, smashed and rubbed his head into the ice, and broke a mans neck. Possibly jepordizing another persons playing career. It's not enough.

silent_jay · 03-11-2004, 07:33 AM

Shall we crucify him as well would thast sastify the blood-sucking masses, holy shit people get blindsided in the NHL everyday, worse things happen, how do you know the kid would of had a career he was rookie they get called up and sent down like mad, he may have never played again anyways, Colin shit the bed on this one I just hope the next time some european throws out the knee on someone he and all the rest of you blood-suckers out there remember that you wanted Bertuzzi crucified for his actions and a knee is 100 times worse than this.

Go_AVS · 03-11-2004, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
Shall a knee is 100 times worse than this.

how can you say a knee is 100 times worse than this??

They say Moore will probably have a full recovery, that does not mean he will play hockey again. Do you know if he will have to have his vertabrae fused, if so he will most likely have to do it throughout his life. They are both bad injuries and should be punished alike, if someone throws and leg out and takes someone's knee out, then punish them harsh. Clean the game up of the dirty crap and the league might get the fans they are after. I think hockey the way it should be played is the best of all the sports, but I hate the cheap shit!!

As for the punishment, it is in line of what I expected, but not what I hoped for. I just hope everyone will learn from it but I doubt they will. I don't know if you saw the highlights of the Lightning/Hurricane game from last night but some guy from the Hurricanes took a 2 hand swing at a Lightning player's head.

It is a screwed up league right now that needs to be cleaned up, but still my favorite sport as a fan....

Nimbletoe · 03-11-2004, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
Shall we crucify him as well would thast sastify the blood-sucking masses, holy shit people get blindsided in the NHL everyday, worse things happen, how do you know the kid would of had a career he was rookie they get called up and sent down like mad, he may have never played again anyways, Colin shit the bed on this one I just hope the next time some european throws out the knee on someone he and all the rest of you blood-suckers out there remember that you wanted Bertuzzi crucified for his actions and a knee is 100 times worse than this.

Man, what are you talking about? That has to be the worst logic i've ever heard. We'll probably never know if he would have had a career now, thanks to Bertuzzi. It would be a different situation if he had made a legal check on him and he got seriously hurt, but he didnt. He came up behind him, sucker punched him in the side of the head, and drove him into the ground, landing on top of him and jamming his neck into the ice with intent to keep pounding on him. Had a player not been near and he had kept hitting him, he could have murdered him.

According to your logic, teams shouldn't play any games because they could lose anyway. Hell, according to your logic, people shouldn't live their lives because they could just walk outside and get shot or hit by a car. That has to be the dumbest excuse i've ever heard. I don't care how much he intended to hurt him, the point is that he intended to hurt the guy by ASSULTING him, something that he would be in jail for if he weren't on the ice. The punishment for it is just, and well deserved.

EDIT: I see your a canadian, which means I bet your a canucks fan. If this had happened to Bertuzzi, rather than him causing it, I bet you would be crying bloody murder.

silent_jay · 03-11-2004, 09:37 AM

so because I'm a Canadian I must be a Canuck's fan good American logic, I'll just look outside my igloo and see if the dogsled trail is clear and head over to Vancouver, maybe find out where I live in Canada before you start thinking you know who I cheer for there are more than Vancouver in the league and Canada is bigger than just BC, as for my logic being the worst you've ever heard the kid has barely had a cup of tea in the league he may or may not have been a good player we'll never know my personal opinion is that he'll be back but to each his own, if you think I was talking about people nopt leasding their lives because they may die, good show at reading too much into my statement, it was meant as people say the kid will never play again and who knows if he would have stayed in the NHL anyways.

bigbad · 03-11-2004, 09:38 AM

First off, from previous experience I would advise you guys to throw Silent_Jay on your ignore list.

I think this was a pretty fair ruling, as long as he does get to play again next year, but I don't agree with the Canucks getting fined as well, and I especially don't agree with the fine being so large.

And I say again...

Quote:

I don't know about that, I've watched it over and over and Bertuzzi couldn't have known that he'd knocked him out, so he was just using him as a cushion believing that Moore would put his hands out to protect himself. It wasn't like "I'm gonna take this unconcious guy and slam his head into the ice", if you look at any other hit where both guys fall you'll see pretty well the same thing.

silent_jay · 03-11-2004, 09:57 AM

throw yourself on an ignore list (I'll edit myself to save the mods) you think that past experience has anything to do with my opinion man you really are a (oops better edit myself again) discount your own opinion and while your at it pull your head out of your ass this is a form and everyone can speak freely their opinion on a subject that is brought before them. just because I have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours don't pout and sulk like a baby, my opinion is as valids as everyone elses maybe if I caved to your way of thinking that would make it better for you. you quote yourself yet tell people to put me on an ignore list, seems rather high and mighty of you to think that you have the only valid opinion.

Qazwsxedc · 03-11-2004, 10:01 AM

When Bertuzzi said “I had no intention of hurting you and I feel awful for what transpired” he really should have said "I had no intention of hurting you THAT MUCH and I feel awful for what transpired".

there was clear intent to hurt. i'm happy that he's gone for the rest of hte season and the playoffs.

Nimbletoe · 03-11-2004, 10:19 AM

So, you aren't a canuks fan then? Also, grammar is your friend. If you want people to read what you have to say, make it easier to read than just typing out whatever first comes to you head.

They aren't punishing Bertuzzi because "people are bitching". They're punishing him because he maliciously attacked someone from behind, with intent to cause harm. Just because he was a rookie doesn't mean that the person that assulted him shouldn't be punished, which is exactly what you are saying. Can't you get it through your head that he easily could have killed a man? He changed the rest of his life, forever, because he was angry. Should people that kill babies not be considered murderers because the baby could have died the next day, or had a useless life?

Hanxter · 03-11-2004, 10:41 AM

let's keep this civil, folks!!!

i knew you'd all understand...

SLM3 · 03-11-2004, 10:42 AM

I see a lot of talk here about intent, as if we know what was going on in his head at that exact moment. My question is, what do you think would have happened if Moore didn't get hurt? What if he just dropped and turtled? Same sucker punch, but no major injury. Would we be talking about Bertuzzi intending to seriously injure Moore? Probably not.

SLM3

Nimbletoe · 03-11-2004, 10:59 AM

He intended to hurt him. He was knocked out cold by the time he hit the ice, and yes, its unfortunate that he landed like that, but Bertuzzi landed on top of him and drove him into the ice and kept trying to hit him. It wasnt like he slapped him upside the head and kept moving. He was obviously trying to beat the hell out of the guy. If it were just one punch, and thats it, then no, the punishment wouldn't be as severe. But, as I said, after hitting him, he drove him into the ice like that, accident or not, and kept on trying to hit him. I doubt he was thinking anything but causing illegal harm.

sherpahigh · 03-11-2004, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nimbletoe
I doubt he was thinking anything but causing illegal harm.

hehehe that's a funny picture. I'm sure he was thinking "what I wanna do here is cause some illegal harm, non of that pussy ass legal harm, but some illegal stuff, that's what we're after here."

Just kidding of course. I agree that he definitly was out to hurt him.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened however if the exact same cheap shot happened and he fell down on top of him and continued to try and hit him and everything was the same only Moore wasn't seriously injured. What would the call be then?

As it is, I think the punishment is pretty fair, there's no room in hockey for shit like that. No honor in knocking someone out when he doesn't see it coming.

Nimbletoe · 03-11-2004, 12:05 PM

If there wasn't a huge injury, then the punishment wouldn't be (and shouldn't be) as severe. Its the combination of the intent and the actual injury that makes his punishment worse. The same happens in the legal system, thats why theres attempted murder. Not saying he was trying to kill him, but just making a point.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-11-2004, 12:16 PM

Sorry for the late reply about my response to the sentence... but i was at school all day.... my bad

Anyway... this is worse than what i was expecting... I second (or third?) the notion that 'Tuzzi is a scapegoat for what has been going on all season with the cheap shots. Ten years ago this would have been like 5 games... but its a different game now... so i guess were gonna have to live with it.

At least the canucks picked up some decent talent... with sanderson scoring a goal in his first game without even practicing wth the team yet.

its a damn shame... especially since its up for review next year...

And to everyone who says the apology was insincere... ive been in this dudes shoes... seriously seriously injuring someone in a sport... you're NEVER out to do it, sometimes your emotions take over and it happens... and you live with it for the rest of your life

that is all

Himbo · 03-11-2004, 12:43 PM

"I know I am biased but I think Todd Bertuzzi should have criminal changes"

Exactly your biased so you shouldn't even be talking because your views are exactly that . .biased.

"Cheap ass hits with the intent to injure a player have no place in hockey."

I guess Moore should have faced some type of punishement for taking out the Captain of the Vancouver Canucks with a cheap hit.

"but when there is a "bounty" placed on an opponents head then they go through with it the the classless way they did"

How about we take it a step further and talk about the Avs management. What kind of idiots are they to allow Moore to play the game? I'll even give you the first two periods what is he STILL doing on the ice in a 8 - 2 blowout in the third period? He's a marked man . i guess the coaches don't care about his safety.

Bottom line: Bertuzzi was in the wrong he shouldn't have done what he did. Avs players piling on top of him after the hit only added to the injuries. The suspension sounds good to me. He done for the year and loses half a million dollars. If Moore have showed any regret towards his hit on Naslund this could have ended differently. But he didn't . .in the locker room afterwards he didn't even show remorse for the concussion he inflicted.

J

silent_jay · 03-11-2004, 12:51 PM

hey Nimbletoe grammar has nothing to do with my argument so get down off your high horse, you seem to have all the inside information, you know exactly what Bertuzzi was thinking and you know that this has changed everything, and you even know what his intentions are you must be working for JO JO's psychic alliance or something, 5 games would have been plenty even now poor Bertuzzi a scapegoat for all the missed calls.

and by the way what the fuck is legal harm Jesus, and once again how do you know what Bertuzzi's intentions were to cause him "illegal harm" or "legal harm"? are you psychic or just the know all. Oh yeah they are punishing Bertuzzi because of the bloodsuckers if no one bitched no one would care.

archer2371 · 03-11-2004, 01:06 PM

Scapegoat??? I hardly think so. I haven't seen anyone break anybody's neck because they decided to act stupid and get retribution for a finished check (although a nasty one, and suspension worthy, he lead with his elbow, I do agree to that, even tho Naslund should have kept his head up). Anyways, yeah, Bertuzzi didn't intend to break his neck, no hockey player would EVER intend to break somebody's neck. He did something stupid, and things went badly and now he is paying the price for it. I guarantee that Bertuzzi won't do something like this ever again. If they had specifically targeted Moore with especially hard checks, meh, I wouldn't care, that's part of hockey, make his time on the ice miserable, but what Bertuzzi did was uncalled for and now he's paying a price.

bigbad · 03-11-2004, 03:14 PM

The 12 games is similar to the Johnson - Beukeboom incident, which it should be since they were practically the same. The playoffs I can agree with because while he didn't intend to break Moore's neck, a sucker punch to the head like that IS INTENDED TO INJURE, and the fact that all that bounty crap had happened and that a more serious injury DID OCCUR as a result of the sucker punch, means that the punishment should probably be a bit harsher than Beukeboom. But I see no reason for the fine on the Canucks, that was unreasonable.

splck · 03-11-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ace_O_Spades
I second (or third?) the notion that 'Tuzzi is a scapegoat for what has been going on all season with the cheap shots. Ten years ago this would have been like 5 games... but its a different game now... so i guess were gonna have to live with it.

I agree. If the NHL wanted to clamp down on this shit they would have done it already. They know players are out for other players, but they don't do anything about it because it's all about the hype.

He's a scapegoat, just like the next guy is going to be...get used to it.

Nimbletoe · 03-11-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
hey Nimbletoe grammar has nothing to do with my argument so get down off your high horse, you seem to have all the inside information, you know exactly what Bertuzzi was thinking and you know that this has changed everything, and you even know what his intentions are you must be working for JO JO's psychic alliance or something, 5 games would have been plenty even now poor Bertuzzi a scapegoat for all the missed calls.

and by the way what the fuck is legal harm Jesus, and once again how do you know what Bertuzzi's intentions were to cause him "illegal harm" or "legal harm"? are you psychic or just the know all. Oh yeah they are punishing Bertuzzi because of the bloodsuckers if no one bitched no one would care.

I'm not on a high horse, nor have I ever claimed to be. I was telling you that you should pay more attention to how you type because I had to read your statements a few times to make sure I understood them right.

What I meant by illegal harm is that it wasn't a legal hit. He chased him down, punched him in the head, drove him into the ice head first, and kept trying to hit him. What do YOU think he was thinking? When I see someone go after someone like that, its pretty obvious what they are thinking.

As for no one caring, yeah right. I'm sure the players that would have to play against an unpunished Bertuzzi wouldn't care a bit, or their families, or the fans. Yep, it was people bitching that caused Bertuzzi's punishment, not the fact that he chased someone down, knocked him out from behind and drove his head into the ice. That had nothing to do with it. And he obviously intended to just give him a warning with a love tap. Because he couldn't have meant to hurt him, that would make no sense.

You're the one on the high horse buddy, not me.

docbungle · 03-11-2004, 05:44 PM

A little earlier in this thread, people were criticizing Moore for not fighting Bertuzzi "straight up." Are you insane? The size difference between the two players is phenomenal. Get real.

Bertuzzi lost his cool because they were getting their asses reamed and he blew his top. Bad decision on his part. He should never play hockey again. It's no different than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear. Yes, fighting is allowed in hockey, (if BOTH players are game) but this was not fighting. And it was not LEGAL (as Moore's hit in the earlier game WAS). It was not a clean hit, it was away from the play, it was from BEHIND, and Moore is a midget compared to him. And Moore DID fight earlier in the game, it was a good fucking fight, he's no fucking wuss, as some of you Canuck fans keep saying.

Bertuzzi can cry all he wants, it's too late to be sorry now. Being sorry for something doesn't take away from what you did.

silent_jay · 03-11-2004, 05:59 PM

okay so Bertuzzi never "drove" his head into the ice, the reaction that you saw is that of an unconcious person, they can't put up their arms and hands to stop things, if Bertuzzi had "driven" his head into the ice things would of been a whole lot worse than a broken neck. have you ever hit your head on the ice in a rink? not a pleasant experience believe me.

the fact that people are bitching is why the suspension is so long, I never said it had nothing to do with Bertuzzi's actions maybe you should read things properly, of course he meant to hurt him, do you think players go into hit or fight someone and not intend to hurt him?

I really don't understand how I can be on a high horse when I really haven't said anything to indicate such, maybe it was your lack of a witty retort that made you end at that who knows.

Bottom line Bertuzzi was a scapegoat

FleaCircus · 03-11-2004, 07:11 PM

Regardless of whether or not Bertuzzi is a scapegoat, the suspension is in line with precedent set by the league during previous incidents. I think it's fair.

My questions is this: If the Canucks manage to win the Cup (unlikely, but possible), does Bertuzzi get his name engraved on it? Does the league have rules for this?

Kurant · 03-11-2004, 07:24 PM

The man dropped his stick, continued to persue him, punched him in the side of the head. Jumped on his back, drove his face into the ice (Maybe you need to watch the video a few more times, his left hand is sitting on the back of his head while he continued to throw punches) and continued to throw punches while the man was knocked out cold, with a broken neck.

Look, that is intention, and the argument of "if it didn't" happen is completely stupid, because it did happen. There is no way to change that.

He didn't collide, he was no accident. He did it on purpose, he may have not meant to break his neck, but the intent to hit, and hit Moore as hard as he could was there. It's all about intention, and he intended to do what he did. That's the bottom line.

He's gone, and thank god. Your scapegoat argument is bullshit. This was a violent, selfish, and completely stupid fucking act, and anyone who can't see that is as big an idiot as he is. Shit like this, hockey, lacrosse, pool, bowling, whatever the hell it is, has NO place in professional sports.

Good riddence, and save your "scapegoat" and "if" arguments for someone else, because it happend. You can't change that.

TheShadow · 03-11-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
Bottom line Bertuzzi was a scapegoat

Couple of points to make.

One: No, Moore's neck wasn't broken - the media was blowing it out proportion. Two fractured vertebrae, and supposedly he'll be back in 6-8 weeks.

Two: I'm going to agree with Silent_Jay about how its been completely taken out of context. People who don't know aobut hockey were complaining, the media was completely biased - They portrayed Bertuzzi in the worst way possible, and the league was trying to get fans back by overdoing the sentence.

Bottom line, Bertuzzi was the victim of idiocy and Colin Campbell. A career ending sucker-punch, if that's what you want to call it, was given 12 games. This 6-8 week injury [Players get season-ending injuries and the perpetrators don't see a day of suspension] deserves at most just the regular season. The league is just trying to save its reputation. Bertuzzi's just an unfortunate recipient of bad luck.

Oh, and, Kurant:

P.S. Save Bertuzzi!

TheShadow · 03-11-2004, 08:15 PM

Edit: My bad. Accidental Quote hitting when I was trying to edit.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-11-2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by docbungle
Bertuzzi can cry all he wants, it's too late to be sorry now. Being sorry for something doesn't take away from what you did.

what a cruel heartless thing to say... i hope some day you can feel what its like to do something you regret with your whole body so much that it makes you sick...

if the snyder family can forgive dan... let's feel a little sorry for a dude who is so obviously sick with his actions.

go bertuzzi, you got my support 100%

streak_56 · 03-12-2004, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ace_O_Spades
Here's a few things im sick of surrounding this situation:

1) There is NO FUCKING WAY Bertuzzi's punch cracked two vertebrae in Moore's body... It was probably from the several Avalance players piling on top of Bertuzzi while he was on top of Moore

2) There shouldn't be criminal charges under any circumstances... It was a sucker PUNCH... not a freakin stick... If he gets charged, its official that hands are weapons and they might as well just throw fighting out of hockey.

3) Moore should have fought Bertuzzi straight up... but he pussied out... and I know Bertuzzi SHOULD NOT have hit him from behind, however it could have been resolved like men... It wasnt

My prediction:

10-15 Games, stiff fine

And i pray Moore will be able to play again to his fullest extent...

Hopefully he'll take his lumps like a man in the first place instead of running away next time

I agree with everything said here except the third point..... Moore didn't want to fight and tried to skate away... Bertuzzi gave him a cheap shot and thats how I see it

streak_56 · 03-12-2004, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soggybagel
First off, for all non-hockey fans who are disgusted with fighting, it is part of the game and really you need to know about the game to truely understand the dynamics of it all.

Secondly, having seen the punch as well as basically everything else going on etc. Bertuzzi did act in a stupid way that lead to an unfortunate injury. I feel that a suspension til at least the end of the season is going to happen and honestly the thing boils down to it was a premeditated act that was brutal.

Secondly Moore did not just learn a hard lesson. He finished his check and while it was on a superstar which is a unwritten rule, I think you can agree the idea is not to pounce the man from behind and commence beating. Bigbad regarding the question on why Moore was even out there with ten minutes left? I think Granato was probably just running shifts as usual and since there had been multiple fights already in the game he probably ddin't forsee anything huge happening.

Overall I'm kind of in the middle. I for one think that the hit Naslund recieved was a hard hit but not cheap. The hit Moore recieved was a cheap hit. The ensuing injury was bad also. Bertuzzi should be suspended for the rest of the season and the frist round of the playoffs. A fine would be good also but no investigation. I'm sure Bert is sorry, but I find the hit was unwarranted.

FINALLY someone I agree 100% with

Hanxter · 03-12-2004, 06:36 AM

ya know, i'm reminded of the time Ulfie took out Neely, playoffs 90/91 against the Pens, no he didn't break his neck, but, he did take Cam out of the game for a long, long time...
suspension - no... fine - no
not even a penalty...

fast forward to Cam's return, happened to be against the Pens...

the ref is circling the rink during the pre-game skate telling both Cam and Ulfie he's gonna be there...
1 minute into the game, Cam has Ulfie's shirt over his head and pounding him into tomorrow...
when all was said and done Neely is out of the game and Ulfie is in the box for 5...

the ref's reason for Cam's ejection was "intent to injure"...

no suspension & no fine

i was at both games...

now i'm at a crossroads... i watched the replay of "the hit" over and over last night from 3 different angles and what i saw was...
1) Bert was needling Moore and Moore wanted no part of him
2) Bert did indeed blindside him
3) Bert had his fore arm behind Moore's neck as they fell and the landing face first pushed Moore's head back over Bert's arm, what i feel caused the fracture
4) no one knew he was out, let alone with a life threatening injury, when they piled on

the league now is faced with taking a stand and making Bert the fall guy seems appropriate to the front office

suspended for the rest of the year, harsh, but the message is sent...
re-application to play, i find is not needed in this case, in the McSorley incident it was appropriate - he used a stick

as for the fine against the Canucks, i don't know, unless it can be proven he was sent out to take Moore out - then that would be "intent to injure" on the benches part...

it just reminds me of 90/91, justice is cheap...

and easy when you have nothing to lose but a player's career...

or life

Bigt6909 · 03-12-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowz

Shadowz, thanks for bringing this up. I've read all of the posts and waited for someone to bring up this hit. Now, I may not agree with the caption, but this was a bad hit and injured Draper. You Avs fans seem to forget this.

However I do agree with the suspension and that he should miss the playoffs, however I think it's rediculous that the police are getting involved. Just plain stupid and anyone who thinks they should, damn watch some more sports and then rethink your comments.

maxhooters · 03-12-2004, 08:55 AM

i thnk that he should have maned up and left the game for good. just saying how sorry he is does not cut it.

silent_jay · 03-12-2004, 11:43 AM

Leave the game for good as in loose his entire career for this act that has so blown-out of proportion it isn't funny. Brian Burke said it best when he said that because Bertuzzzi isn't the most media friendly player in he league when this happened they all too it as an opportunity to jump on him. Was this any worse than the Gary Suter cross-check on Kariya a few years ago? I think not and Suter continued to play and didn't get this many games.

canucker · 03-12-2004, 12:13 PM

You all got it wrong:

Bert was just trying to point out to him that his chin strap was loose.

P.S. Go Canucks Go!!!

P.S.S And what is the difference between Bert's cheap shot and checking someone from behind into the boards and only getting 2 minutes?

Quadraton · 03-12-2004, 12:16 PM

You know, there's one thing about this whole thing that pisses me off.

What Todd Bertuzzi did was a stupid mistake, perpetrated in the heat of the moment in a sport that thrives on intensity. Nothing more. The League addressed the issue, and handed out a punishment that fit the crime. That doesn't piss me off.

What does piss me off is, even with all of that, it still does little to prevent all these people from suddenly growing a conscience, jumping on their moral high horse, and pulling their sanctimonious bandwagon. Both fans and the media alike.

I mean, I don't recall seeing either the sheer amount of news articles, nor the mountain of letters to the editor, nor the on-air shrieks to/from radio stations calling for the end to the violence after that 419 penalty minute game in Philly.

So, am I to understand that people love violence, just as long as it's not too much violence? That cheap elbow to the head that results in a concusion is okay, but that cheap punch from behind that results in a fractured neck is wrong?

I'm not saying what Bertuzzi did was okay, but for heaven's sake. Don't suddenly pretend that the violence affects you just because a lot of people are angry.

Blackthorn · 03-12-2004, 12:58 PM

Criminal charges is probably the least thing that should happen to this a-hole. The league should kick him out as in PERMANENT Pete Rose style ban and if he's allowed to earn one cent playing hockey at any point in the future it should all go do the guy he attacked.

All this and he's "sorry...and never meant to do harm"...bull shit. Pissed off that this guy is still walking the streets and not in prison. OUT.

03-11-2004, 06:07 AM	#81 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	28 games rest of the regular season + post season and if he can return will be determined next fall, what a fuckin joke I hope all the fuckin pussies that pissed and moaned and called for his head are happy, another episode blown out of proportion congrats, next time someone ends a career with a knee remember this and how people don't think that is a big deal, what a fuckin joke the NHL is Bettman ands Campbell are the biggest fuckin tossers I've ever seen. Bertuzzi is a scapegoat for all the highsticking ealiers this year, they missed those calls they better hang Bertuzzi because people are bitching, and they may not have a chace to save face Fuckin joke __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-11-2004, 06:07 AM	#82 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	Bertuzzi suspended for the rest of the season (13 games = $501K) plus the playoffs and must reapply next season AND the Canucks have been fined $250K Last edited by Hanxter; 03-11-2004 at 06:33 AM..

03-11-2004, 07:33 AM	#85 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Shall we crucify him as well would thast sastify the blood-sucking masses, holy shit people get blindsided in the NHL everyday, worse things happen, how do you know the kid would of had a career he was rookie they get called up and sent down like mad, he may have never played again anyways, Colin shit the bed on this one I just hope the next time some european throws out the knee on someone he and all the rest of you blood-suckers out there remember that you wanted Bertuzzi crucified for his actions and a knee is 100 times worse than this. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-11-2004, 09:37 AM	#88 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	so because I'm a Canadian I must be a Canuck's fan good American logic, I'll just look outside my igloo and see if the dogsled trail is clear and head over to Vancouver, maybe find out where I live in Canada before you start thinking you know who I cheer for there are more than Vancouver in the league and Canada is bigger than just BC, as for my logic being the worst you've ever heard the kid has barely had a cup of tea in the league he may or may not have been a good player we'll never know my personal opinion is that he'll be back but to each his own, if you think I was talking about people nopt leasding their lives because they may die, good show at reading too much into my statement, it was meant as people say the kid will never play again and who knows if he would have stayed in the NHL anyways. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-11-2004, 09:57 AM	#90 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	throw yourself on an ignore list (I'll edit myself to save the mods) you think that past experience has anything to do with my opinion man you really are a (oops better edit myself again) discount your own opinion and while your at it pull your head out of your ass this is a form and everyone can speak freely their opinion on a subject that is brought before them. just because I have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours don't pout and sulk like a baby, my opinion is as valids as everyone elses maybe if I caved to your way of thinking that would make it better for you. you quote yourself yet tell people to put me on an ignore list, seems rather high and mighty of you to think that you have the only valid opinion. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-11-2004, 06:34 AM	#83 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	oh yeah - and should they make the playoffs it could total 41 games

03-11-2004, 06:43 AM	#84 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	He should be suspended. As far as criminal charges, what happens on the ice, IMO stays on the ice. If the NHL wants to punish you, thats rightfully so. However, the Canadian Police are pending investigation on the subject, there was a small blurb about it on Rome is Burning. The suspension isn't big enough. He purposely blindsided another human being, another hockey player, smashed and rubbed his head into the ice, and broke a mans neck. Possibly jepordizing another persons playing career. It's not enough.

03-11-2004, 10:01 AM	#91 (permalink)
Qazwsxedc Insane	When Bertuzzi said “I had no intention of hurting you and I feel awful for what transpired” he really should have said "I had no intention of hurting you THAT MUCH and I feel awful for what transpired". there was clear intent to hurt. i'm happy that he's gone for the rest of hte season and the playoffs.

03-11-2004, 10:19 AM	#92 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	So, you aren't a canuks fan then? Also, grammar is your friend. If you want people to read what you have to say, make it easier to read than just typing out whatever first comes to you head. They aren't punishing Bertuzzi because "people are bitching". They're punishing him because he maliciously attacked someone from behind, with intent to cause harm. Just because he was a rookie doesn't mean that the person that assulted him shouldn't be punished, which is exactly what you are saying. Can't you get it through your head that he easily could have killed a man? He changed the rest of his life, forever, because he was angry. Should people that kill babies not be considered murderers because the baby could have died the next day, or had a useless life? __________________ Go Pistons!

03-11-2004, 10:41 AM	#93 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	let's keep this civil, folks!!! i knew you'd all understand...

03-11-2004, 10:42 AM	#94 (permalink)
SLM3 Insane	I see a lot of talk here about intent, as if we know what was going on in his head at that exact moment. My question is, what do you think would have happened if Moore didn't get hurt? What if he just dropped and turtled? Same sucker punch, but no major injury. Would we be talking about Bertuzzi intending to seriously injure Moore? Probably not. SLM3

03-11-2004, 10:59 AM	#95 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	He intended to hurt him. He was knocked out cold by the time he hit the ice, and yes, its unfortunate that he landed like that, but Bertuzzi landed on top of him and drove him into the ice and kept trying to hit him. It wasnt like he slapped him upside the head and kept moving. He was obviously trying to beat the hell out of the guy. If it were just one punch, and thats it, then no, the punishment wouldn't be as severe. But, as I said, after hitting him, he drove him into the ice like that, accident or not, and kept on trying to hit him. I doubt he was thinking anything but causing illegal harm. __________________ Go Pistons!

03-11-2004, 12:05 PM	#97 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	If there wasn't a huge injury, then the punishment wouldn't be (and shouldn't be) as severe. Its the combination of the intent and the actual injury that makes his punishment worse. The same happens in the legal system, thats why theres attempted murder. Not saying he was trying to kill him, but just making a point. __________________ Go Pistons!

03-11-2004, 12:16 PM	#98 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	Sorry for the late reply about my response to the sentence... but i was at school all day.... my bad Anyway... this is worse than what i was expecting... I second (or third?) the notion that 'Tuzzi is a scapegoat for what has been going on all season with the cheap shots. Ten years ago this would have been like 5 games... but its a different game now... so i guess were gonna have to live with it. At least the canucks picked up some decent talent... with sanderson scoring a goal in his first game without even practicing wth the team yet. its a damn shame... especially since its up for review next year... And to everyone who says the apology was insincere... ive been in this dudes shoes... seriously seriously injuring someone in a sport... you're NEVER out to do it, sometimes your emotions take over and it happens... and you live with it for the rest of your life that is all __________________ Feh.

03-11-2004, 12:43 PM	#99 (permalink)
Himbo Tilted Location: Canada	"I know I am biased but I think Todd Bertuzzi should have criminal changes" Exactly your biased so you shouldn't even be talking because your views are exactly that . .biased. "Cheap ass hits with the intent to injure a player have no place in hockey." I guess Moore should have faced some type of punishement for taking out the Captain of the Vancouver Canucks with a cheap hit. "but when there is a "bounty" placed on an opponents head then they go through with it the the classless way they did" How about we take it a step further and talk about the Avs management. What kind of idiots are they to allow Moore to play the game? I'll even give you the first two periods what is he STILL doing on the ice in a 8 - 2 blowout in the third period? He's a marked man . i guess the coaches don't care about his safety. Bottom line: Bertuzzi was in the wrong he shouldn't have done what he did. Avs players piling on top of him after the hit only added to the injuries. The suspension sounds good to me. He done for the year and loses half a million dollars. If Moore have showed any regret towards his hit on Naslund this could have ended differently. But he didn't . .in the locker room afterwards he didn't even show remorse for the concussion he inflicted. J

03-11-2004, 12:51 PM	#100 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	hey Nimbletoe grammar has nothing to do with my argument so get down off your high horse, you seem to have all the inside information, you know exactly what Bertuzzi was thinking and you know that this has changed everything, and you even know what his intentions are you must be working for JO JO's psychic alliance or something, 5 games would have been plenty even now poor Bertuzzi a scapegoat for all the missed calls. and by the way what the fuck is legal harm Jesus, and once again how do you know what Bertuzzi's intentions were to cause him "illegal harm" or "legal harm"? are you psychic or just the know all. Oh yeah they are punishing Bertuzzi because of the bloodsuckers if no one bitched no one would care. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-11-2004, 01:06 PM	#101 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	Scapegoat??? I hardly think so. I haven't seen anyone break anybody's neck because they decided to act stupid and get retribution for a finished check (although a nasty one, and suspension worthy, he lead with his elbow, I do agree to that, even tho Naslund should have kept his head up). Anyways, yeah, Bertuzzi didn't intend to break his neck, no hockey player would EVER intend to break somebody's neck. He did something stupid, and things went badly and now he is paying the price for it. I guarantee that Bertuzzi won't do something like this ever again. If they had specifically targeted Moore with especially hard checks, meh, I wouldn't care, that's part of hockey, make his time on the ice miserable, but what Bertuzzi did was uncalled for and now he's paying a price. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

03-11-2004, 03:14 PM	#102 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	The 12 games is similar to the Johnson - Beukeboom incident, which it should be since they were practically the same. The playoffs I can agree with because while he didn't intend to break Moore's neck, a sucker punch to the head like that IS INTENDED TO INJURE, and the fact that all that bounty crap had happened and that a more serious injury DID OCCUR as a result of the sucker punch, means that the punishment should probably be a bit harsher than Beukeboom. But I see no reason for the fine on the Canucks, that was unreasonable.

03-11-2004, 05:44 PM	#105 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	A little earlier in this thread, people were criticizing Moore for not fighting Bertuzzi "straight up." Are you insane? The size difference between the two players is phenomenal. Get real. Bertuzzi lost his cool because they were getting their asses reamed and he blew his top. Bad decision on his part. He should never play hockey again. It's no different than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear. Yes, fighting is allowed in hockey, (if BOTH players are game) but this was not fighting. And it was not LEGAL (as Moore's hit in the earlier game WAS). It was not a clean hit, it was away from the play, it was from BEHIND, and Moore is a midget compared to him. And Moore DID fight earlier in the game, it was a good fucking fight, he's no fucking wuss, as some of you Canuck fans keep saying. Bertuzzi can cry all he wants, it's too late to be sorry now. Being sorry for something doesn't take away from what you did. __________________ Bad Luck City

03-11-2004, 05:59 PM	#106 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	okay so Bertuzzi never "drove" his head into the ice, the reaction that you saw is that of an unconcious person, they can't put up their arms and hands to stop things, if Bertuzzi had "driven" his head into the ice things would of been a whole lot worse than a broken neck. have you ever hit your head on the ice in a rink? not a pleasant experience believe me. the fact that people are bitching is why the suspension is so long, I never said it had nothing to do with Bertuzzi's actions maybe you should read things properly, of course he meant to hurt him, do you think players go into hit or fight someone and not intend to hurt him? I really don't understand how I can be on a high horse when I really haven't said anything to indicate such, maybe it was your lack of a witty retort that made you end at that who knows. Bottom line Bertuzzi was a scapegoat __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-11-2004, 07:11 PM	#107 (permalink)
FleaCircus Insane Location: Denver, CO	Regardless of whether or not Bertuzzi is a scapegoat, the suspension is in line with precedent set by the league during previous incidents. I think it's fair. My questions is this: If the Canucks manage to win the Cup (unlikely, but possible), does Bertuzzi get his name engraved on it? Does the league have rules for this? __________________ "We must have waffles. We must all have waffles, forthwith. Oh, we must think. We must all have waffles and think, each and every one of us to the very best of his ability." -- Professor Goldthwait Higginson Dorr, Ph.D.

03-11-2004, 07:24 PM	#108 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	The man dropped his stick, continued to persue him, punched him in the side of the head. Jumped on his back, drove his face into the ice (Maybe you need to watch the video a few more times, his left hand is sitting on the back of his head while he continued to throw punches) and continued to throw punches while the man was knocked out cold, with a broken neck. Look, that is intention, and the argument of "if it didn't" happen is completely stupid, because it did happen. There is no way to change that. He didn't collide, he was no accident. He did it on purpose, he may have not meant to break his neck, but the intent to hit, and hit Moore as hard as he could was there. It's all about intention, and he intended to do what he did. That's the bottom line. He's gone, and thank god. Your scapegoat argument is bullshit. This was a violent, selfish, and completely stupid fucking act, and anyone who can't see that is as big an idiot as he is. Shit like this, hockey, lacrosse, pool, bowling, whatever the hell it is, has NO place in professional sports. Good riddence, and save your "scapegoat" and "if" arguments for someone else, because it happend. You can't change that. Last edited by Kurant; 03-11-2004 at 07:28 PM..

03-11-2004, 08:15 PM	#110 (permalink)
TheShadow Crazy Location: Vancouver, Canada	Edit: My bad. Accidental Quote hitting when I was trying to edit. __________________ You know that song that goes like...

03-12-2004, 06:36 AM	#114 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	ya know, i'm reminded of the time Ulfie took out Neely, playoffs 90/91 against the Pens, no he didn't break his neck, but, he did take Cam out of the game for a long, long time... suspension - no... fine - no not even a penalty... fast forward to Cam's return, happened to be against the Pens... the ref is circling the rink during the pre-game skate telling both Cam and Ulfie he's gonna be there... 1 minute into the game, Cam has Ulfie's shirt over his head and pounding him into tomorrow... when all was said and done Neely is out of the game and Ulfie is in the box for 5... the ref's reason for Cam's ejection was "intent to injure"... no suspension & no fine i was at both games... now i'm at a crossroads... i watched the replay of "the hit" over and over last night from 3 different angles and what i saw was... 1) Bert was needling Moore and Moore wanted no part of him 2) Bert did indeed blindside him 3) Bert had his fore arm behind Moore's neck as they fell and the landing face first pushed Moore's head back over Bert's arm, what i feel caused the fracture 4) no one knew he was out, let alone with a life threatening injury, when they piled on the league now is faced with taking a stand and making Bert the fall guy seems appropriate to the front office suspended for the rest of the year, harsh, but the message is sent... re-application to play, i find is not needed in this case, in the McSorley incident it was appropriate - he used a stick as for the fine against the Canucks, i don't know, unless it can be proven he was sent out to take Moore out - then that would be "intent to injure" on the benches part... it just reminds me of 90/91, justice is cheap... and easy when you have nothing to lose but a player's career... or life Last edited by Hanxter; 03-12-2004 at 06:39 AM..

03-12-2004, 08:55 AM	#116 (permalink)
maxhooters Crazy	i thnk that he should have maned up and left the game for good. just saying how sorry he is does not cut it. __________________ making four left turns is not a sport!!!!!

03-12-2004, 11:43 AM	#117 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Leave the game for good as in loose his entire career for this act that has so blown-out of proportion it isn't funny. Brian Burke said it best when he said that because Bertuzzzi isn't the most media friendly player in he league when this happened they all too it as an opportunity to jump on him. Was this any worse than the Gary Suter cross-check on Kariya a few years ago? I think not and Suter continued to play and didn't get this many games. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

03-12-2004, 12:13 PM	#118 (permalink)
canucker Crazy	You all got it wrong: Bert was just trying to point out to him that his chin strap was loose. P.S. Go Canucks Go!!! P.S.S And what is the difference between Bert's cheap shot and checking someone from behind into the boards and only getting 2 minutes? __________________ Go hard or go home; Just don't go home hard.

03-12-2004, 12:16 PM	#119 (permalink)
Quadraton Addict Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada	You know, there's one thing about this whole thing that pisses me off. What Todd Bertuzzi did was a stupid mistake, perpetrated in the heat of the moment in a sport that thrives on intensity. Nothing more. The League addressed the issue, and handed out a punishment that fit the crime. That doesn't piss me off. What does piss me off is, even with all of that, it still does little to prevent all these people from suddenly growing a conscience, jumping on their moral high horse, and pulling their sanctimonious bandwagon. Both fans and the media alike. I mean, I don't recall seeing either the sheer amount of news articles, nor the mountain of letters to the editor, nor the on-air shrieks to/from radio stations calling for the end to the violence after that 419 penalty minute game in Philly. So, am I to understand that people love violence, just as long as it's not too much violence? That cheap elbow to the head that results in a concusion is okay, but that cheap punch from behind that results in a fractured neck is wrong? I'm not saying what Bertuzzi did was okay, but for heaven's sake. Don't suddenly pretend that the violence affects you just because a lot of people are angry. __________________ "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire

03-12-2004, 12:58 PM	#120 (permalink)
Blackthorn Beware the Mad Irish Location: Wish I was on the N17...	Criminal charges is probably the least thing that should happen to this a-hole. The league should kick him out as in PERMANENT Pete Rose style ban and if he's allowed to earn one cent playing hockey at any point in the future it should all go do the guy he attacked. All this and he's "sorry...and never meant to do harm"...bull shit. Pissed off that this guy is still walking the streets and not in prison. OUT. __________________ What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?