Who's going to have the best NFL FA season? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

AL9045 · 03-03-2004, 03:13 PM

Who do you think will get the best players?

The Redskins have already picked up a few...

Any other teams looking to make a huge splash?

FlyinHawaiin343 · 03-03-2004, 04:36 PM

Eagles landed Kearse.

There are rumors that Moss is going to be traded to the Dolphins which would be huge.

djtestudo · 03-03-2004, 05:04 PM

The Ravens are going to be active somewhat. They may not pick up many guys, but they could easy end up with Owens and Sapp, plus a backup QB depending on whether someone thinks Anthony Wright can be a dependable starter (no).

Of course, the "winner" will be the Redskins, but they still may not end up much better.

spectre · 03-03-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
The Ravens are going to be active somewhat. They may not pick up many guys, but they could easy end up with Owens and Sapp

Owens would be a great pickup, but Sapp would be a bad idea. Sapp's better suited to a 4-3 defense, a 3-4 with him at NT just wouldn't work well. The Ravens' offense definitely could use a big play receiver.

So far, I think Denver has made out the best. They have a great offensive line, so a decent running back can do fairly well. It's more difficult to find a great CB than a great RB, and with that offensive line, the RB doesn't need to be great.

djtestudo · 03-03-2004, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spectre
Owens would be a great pickup, but Sapp would be a bad idea. Sapp's better suited to a 4-3 defense, a 3-4 with him at NT just wouldn't work well. The Ravens' offense definitely could use a big play receiver.

That would be the idea; going back to the 4-3. The Ravens may lose Hartwell, who would start on just about any other team in the NFL, and could then make the switch.

grayman · 03-03-2004, 10:11 PM

The Redskins signed Shawn Springs, maybe they aren't as stupid as I thought. They still need an offensive line though.
I hope the Ravens don't get Sapp. There is no way that the Vikings will trade Moss, and damn the Eagles.

spectre · 03-04-2004, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
That would be the idea; going back to the 4-3. The Ravens may lose Hartwell, who would start on just about any other team in the NFL, and could then make the switch.

The Ravens would have been better off with Ted Washington in the 3-4, though.

jay-g · 03-05-2004, 03:12 AM

Doesnt the Redskins organization have the highest payroll? It always seem like they dish out alot of money, and get no results. Maybe one day, Snyder's investments will profit.

grayman · 03-07-2004, 01:58 PM

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7145465

How in the world do the Washington Redskins sign free agents to blockbuster contract upon blockbuster contract?

No question has been bandied about in watering holes or near water coolers more this offseason by NFL fans and front-office folks. Even players from other teams have tried to find out the secret equation owner Dan Snyder uses to stockpile his team in a fashion usually reserved for the House that Ruth Built.

Clinton Portis gives Joe Gibbs a running back who could lead a Super Bowl run -- if he's healthy. (AP)
In an attempt to clear up the question of "how and why can they do it," SportsLine.com grilled other teams' general managers and capologists, agents and some Redskins people to break down how Snyder has been able to stockpile the past several seasons while others sit somewhat idly by.

Let's begin by breaking down a handful of the Redskins' deals. The figures were compiled using actual contract breakdowns Washington turned into the league -- the same numbers that are issued to other clubs.

The first obvious trend that is the structure of the signing bonus as opposed to salaries. The best example is the contract of wide receiver Laveranues Coles, who last year signed a huge seven-year, $35 million deal that included a $13 million signing bonus. Sounds like a huge chunk of change, and it is.

But Snyder kept other costs down by keeping Coles' salary (or Paragraph 5, as it is known inside the NFL) at the league minimum for the first two years of the deal. In Year 3 it only jumps up to $1.5 million before ballooning to $3 million the next year. That season also includes another $2 million roster bonus.

His cap figures for the first three years are just $2.3 million, $2.3 million and $3.3 million after the signing bonus is prorated over seven years. In 2006, it jumps to nearly $7 million.

To further offset his costs, Snyder deferred Coles' $13 million bonus over a three-year period. Thus, Snyder only gave Coles a total of $4.5 million last season. On top of that, Snyder gets to put the remaining $9 million of future bonus money into escrow and has a chance to draw interest on the deferred obligation.

Coles' deal is just one of many structured in this way:

Quarterback Mark Brunell's deal includes $34.26 million in salary over seven years and an $8.6 million option bonus prorated over six years. Snyder split this bonus in three payments as well by giving the veteran quarterback $2.866 million within 15 days of signing, $2.866 million next April and $2.866 million in April of 2006. Again, his salaries for the first two years are kept extremely low: $760,000 for the first year and $1.5 million for the second. His cap numbers include $2.193 million for this year and a very respectable $3.433 million for 2005.
Offensive guard Randy Thomas signed a seven-year deal that included a stunning (at the time) $7 million signing bonus and $20.63 million in salary. Of the bonus, $2 million was paid last year, $2 million will be paid this year and $3 million will be paid next season. His total salaries for the first two years equal $1.53 million. He counts just $1.53 million against last year's cap and $2 million against this year's figure.
Another area where this structure is smart is the psychological dependency. In many cases where players sign for a large sum up front but receives minimal salaries, they end up getting antsy a couple of years into the deal. They get $1 million or less per year while they see teammates collecting large weekly paychecks and others receive large signing bonuses. Snyder's guys instead are ensured of a nice payday every offseason for the first three years of their deals.

So now the $100 million question: Why wouldn't every team take this approach?

Shawn Springs has the talent to replace Champ Bailey, he hasn't played a full season since 2000. (AP)
The answer lies in actual money paid and the risk of future salary-cap misery. First of all, not everyone has Snyder's gold-lined pockets. According to official league figures sent to each club and dated Nov. 25, 2003, the Redskins led the NFL in "dead money" -- cash paid out to players no longer employed by the team -- last year with $14.5 million. That figure was double the league average of $7.3 million. In 2001, they paid out $14.8 million to players no longer on their team and $13 million in 2002. For fans, that may seem like the price of doing business, but most bosses would be reluctant to shell out $45 million for people who don't work for them anymore.

The other major problem with this structure is the ominous cloud that hangs over the future. Snyder is banking on each of these players being healthy, staying out of trouble and producing at a Pro Bowl level. If any of the players are unable to play a full few seasons or end up slowing down, the Redskins will still be locked into a huge cap number for a guy they can't get rid of.

Guys like Brunell, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and even Cornelius Griffin are far from sure things. Clinton Portis is a bona fide stud, but he has had some injury problems already. Should Portis be injured and sidelined for an extended period, the Redskins will be in a terrible position of having a player who cannot perform at a Pro Bowl level making an outlandish amount of money and taking up cap space. They wouldn't be able to purge the player by accelerating his signing bonus.

Also, because the salaries are low, the Redskins have to get rid of players (like perennial Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey) in order to cut cap space rather than adjust a player's salary like most teams do.

The moral of the story? The Redskins are thinking short-term, and if they win the trophy that Robert Kraft and the Patriots have gotten quite familiar with in recent years, then the dead money might be worth it. It's the same philosophy that helped the 49ers to superiority in the mid-1990s before the cap decimated their roster and morale. If the Redskins don't win it all, Snyder ends up paying out an awful lot of cash for the prettiest looking horse that never makes it to the winner's circle. If it pays off, he buys himself the Lombardi.

Jesus Malverde · 03-07-2004, 04:14 PM

If the T.O. trade is taken back (looks like it) and the Eagles are able to land him, I think they will have one of the best free agency seasons. They made it to the NFC championship last year with talented but not spectacular receivers. They got what they needed with Kearse: someone who can take some attention away from the tackles and still put some extra pressure on the QB. They didn't need much, and T.O. would just add another offensive playmaker. As a Dallas fan, I'm worried.

djtestudo · 03-07-2004, 08:35 PM

Too bad it's not going back. The league approved the trade, and any appeal by TO or the NFLPA will get thrown out. He's a Raven until he's traded again or until his contract is up.

BigGov · 03-07-2004, 09:35 PM

Time for an Eagles fan to rain on the Ravens fan's parade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1753313
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1752478
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1751713

Sadly, the Eagles are three players short if they land TO on top of Kearse. They need a good linebacker and two cornerbacks.

Because of that, the Redskins are clearly the champs of yet another offseason. Portis, and Springs were two huge additions to an already stacked team. The thing they've always needed was a great coach to bring them all together, so how about Joe Gibbs.

So now the Eagles play three of the best coaches in the league two times each. Great. Just great.

grayman · 03-08-2004, 03:36 AM

I don't know what you read in those articles, but I didn't see anything that indicates that the league is going to side with T.O. He hasn't exactly made lots of friends around the league, so I think he has 2 choices at this point: play for the Ravens, or pull a Keyshawn and be an announcer for 3 years. Maybe if he was in the MLB players' union he would have a chance, but I think he should be filing a grievance with his agent and the Eagles(a 5th round pick and James Thrash? is that a bad joke?), not the league.

crewsor · 03-08-2004, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy4
Time for an Eagles fan to rain on the Ravens fan's parade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1753313
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1752478
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1751713

Sadly, the Eagles are three players short if they land TO on top of Kearse. They need a good linebacker and two cornerbacks.

Because of that, the Redskins are clearly the champs of yet another offseason. Portis, and Springs were two huge additions to an already stacked team. The thing they've always needed was a great coach to bring them all together, so how about Joe Gibbs.

So now the Eagles play three of the best coaches in the league two times each. Great. Just great.

Did you miss this excerpt from the first artical?

"League sources, however, have said the NFL considers Thursday's trade legal and a done deal, and sees no reason to overturn it."

He can cry all he wants, but it's his own agents fault he won't be getting the money he could have if the idiot had filed for free agency by the deadline.
However, if he isn't happy in Baltimore and wants to continue behaving like spoiled three year old brat, I would just as soon let the Eagles have him and his baggage. Take the 2nd round pick, and let the idiot go. Last thing you need on the team is an unhappy troublemaker. Fuckim.

djtestudo · 03-08-2004, 03:26 PM

For the record, John Clayton just said on Sportscenter that it's "one-hundred percent" that TO will be in a Baltimore uniform this season.

BigGov · 03-08-2004, 08:54 PM

Yet the ESPN articles keep on coming

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1754203

djtestudo · 03-08-2004, 09:29 PM

The amusing thing in all this is, that we were mentioned along with Philly as the two teams he really wanted to play for before all this BS.

03-03-2004, 03:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
AL9045 Addict Location: Virginia	Who's going to have the best NFL FA season? Who do you think will get the best players? The Redskins have already picked up a few... Any other teams looking to make a huge splash?

03-03-2004, 05:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	The Ravens are going to be active somewhat. They may not pick up many guys, but they could easy end up with Owens and Sapp, plus a backup QB depending on whether someone thinks Anthony Wright can be a dependable starter (no). Of course, the "winner" will be the Redskins, but they still may not end up much better. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

03-03-2004, 10:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
grayman you can't see me Location: Illinois	The Redskins signed Shawn Springs, maybe they aren't as stupid as I thought. They still need an offensive line though. I hope the Ravens don't get Sapp. There is no way that the Vikings will trade Moss, and damn the Eagles. __________________ That's right - I'm a guy in a suit eating a Blizzard. F U.

03-07-2004, 01:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
grayman you can't see me Location: Illinois	http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7145465 How in the world do the Washington Redskins sign free agents to blockbuster contract upon blockbuster contract? No question has been bandied about in watering holes or near water coolers more this offseason by NFL fans and front-office folks. Even players from other teams have tried to find out the secret equation owner Dan Snyder uses to stockpile his team in a fashion usually reserved for the House that Ruth Built. Clinton Portis gives Joe Gibbs a running back who could lead a Super Bowl run -- if he's healthy. (AP) In an attempt to clear up the question of "how and why can they do it," SportsLine.com grilled other teams' general managers and capologists, agents and some Redskins people to break down how Snyder has been able to stockpile the past several seasons while others sit somewhat idly by. Let's begin by breaking down a handful of the Redskins' deals. The figures were compiled using actual contract breakdowns Washington turned into the league -- the same numbers that are issued to other clubs. The first obvious trend that is the structure of the signing bonus as opposed to salaries. The best example is the contract of wide receiver Laveranues Coles, who last year signed a huge seven-year, $35 million deal that included a $13 million signing bonus. Sounds like a huge chunk of change, and it is. But Snyder kept other costs down by keeping Coles' salary (or Paragraph 5, as it is known inside the NFL) at the league minimum for the first two years of the deal. In Year 3 it only jumps up to $1.5 million before ballooning to $3 million the next year. That season also includes another $2 million roster bonus. His cap figures for the first three years are just $2.3 million, $2.3 million and $3.3 million after the signing bonus is prorated over seven years. In 2006, it jumps to nearly $7 million. To further offset his costs, Snyder deferred Coles' $13 million bonus over a three-year period. Thus, Snyder only gave Coles a total of $4.5 million last season. On top of that, Snyder gets to put the remaining $9 million of future bonus money into escrow and has a chance to draw interest on the deferred obligation. Coles' deal is just one of many structured in this way: Quarterback Mark Brunell's deal includes $34.26 million in salary over seven years and an $8.6 million option bonus prorated over six years. Snyder split this bonus in three payments as well by giving the veteran quarterback $2.866 million within 15 days of signing, $2.866 million next April and $2.866 million in April of 2006. Again, his salaries for the first two years are kept extremely low: $760,000 for the first year and $1.5 million for the second. His cap numbers include $2.193 million for this year and a very respectable $3.433 million for 2005. Offensive guard Randy Thomas signed a seven-year deal that included a stunning (at the time) $7 million signing bonus and $20.63 million in salary. Of the bonus, $2 million was paid last year, $2 million will be paid this year and $3 million will be paid next season. His total salaries for the first two years equal $1.53 million. He counts just $1.53 million against last year's cap and $2 million against this year's figure. Another area where this structure is smart is the psychological dependency. In many cases where players sign for a large sum up front but receives minimal salaries, they end up getting antsy a couple of years into the deal. They get $1 million or less per year while they see teammates collecting large weekly paychecks and others receive large signing bonuses. Snyder's guys instead are ensured of a nice payday every offseason for the first three years of their deals. So now the $100 million question: Why wouldn't every team take this approach? Shawn Springs has the talent to replace Champ Bailey, he hasn't played a full season since 2000. (AP) The answer lies in actual money paid and the risk of future salary-cap misery. First of all, not everyone has Snyder's gold-lined pockets. According to official league figures sent to each club and dated Nov. 25, 2003, the Redskins led the NFL in "dead money" -- cash paid out to players no longer employed by the team -- last year with $14.5 million. That figure was double the league average of $7.3 million. In 2001, they paid out $14.8 million to players no longer on their team and $13 million in 2002. For fans, that may seem like the price of doing business, but most bosses would be reluctant to shell out $45 million for people who don't work for them anymore. The other major problem with this structure is the ominous cloud that hangs over the future. Snyder is banking on each of these players being healthy, staying out of trouble and producing at a Pro Bowl level. If any of the players are unable to play a full few seasons or end up slowing down, the Redskins will still be locked into a huge cap number for a guy they can't get rid of. Guys like Brunell, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and even Cornelius Griffin are far from sure things. Clinton Portis is a bona fide stud, but he has had some injury problems already. Should Portis be injured and sidelined for an extended period, the Redskins will be in a terrible position of having a player who cannot perform at a Pro Bowl level making an outlandish amount of money and taking up cap space. They wouldn't be able to purge the player by accelerating his signing bonus. Also, because the salaries are low, the Redskins have to get rid of players (like perennial Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey) in order to cut cap space rather than adjust a player's salary like most teams do. The moral of the story? The Redskins are thinking short-term, and if they win the trophy that Robert Kraft and the Patriots have gotten quite familiar with in recent years, then the dead money might be worth it. It's the same philosophy that helped the 49ers to superiority in the mid-1990s before the cap decimated their roster and morale. If the Redskins don't win it all, Snyder ends up paying out an awful lot of cash for the prettiest looking horse that never makes it to the winner's circle. If it pays off, he buys himself the Lombardi. __________________ That's right - I'm a guy in a suit eating a Blizzard. F U.

03-07-2004, 04:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jesus Malverde Psycho Location: Sinaloa, Mexico	If the T.O. trade is taken back (looks like it) and the Eagles are able to land him, I think they will have one of the best free agency seasons. They made it to the NFC championship last year with talented but not spectacular receivers. They got what they needed with Kearse: someone who can take some attention away from the tackles and still put some extra pressure on the QB. They didn't need much, and T.O. would just add another offensive playmaker. As a Dallas fan, I'm worried. __________________ ...I'm that cat by the bar toasting to the good life...

03-03-2004, 04:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
FlyinHawaiin343 Upright	Eagles landed Kearse. There are rumors that Moss is going to be traded to the Dolphins which would be huge.

03-05-2004, 03:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
jay-g Addict	Doesnt the Redskins organization have the highest payroll? It always seem like they dish out alot of money, and get no results. Maybe one day, Snyder's investments will profit.

03-07-2004, 08:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Too bad it's not going back. The league approved the trade, and any appeal by TO or the NFLPA will get thrown out. He's a Raven until he's traded again or until his contract is up. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

03-07-2004, 09:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	Time for an Eagles fan to rain on the Ravens fan's parade. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1753313 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1752478 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1751713 Sadly, the Eagles are three players short if they land TO on top of Kearse. They need a good linebacker and two cornerbacks. Because of that, the Redskins are clearly the champs of yet another offseason. Portis, and Springs were two huge additions to an already stacked team. The thing they've always needed was a great coach to bring them all together, so how about Joe Gibbs. So now the Eagles play three of the best coaches in the league two times each. Great. Just great. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

03-08-2004, 03:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
grayman you can't see me Location: Illinois	I don't know what you read in those articles, but I didn't see anything that indicates that the league is going to side with T.O. He hasn't exactly made lots of friends around the league, so I think he has 2 choices at this point: play for the Ravens, or pull a Keyshawn and be an announcer for 3 years. Maybe if he was in the MLB players' union he would have a chance, but I think he should be filing a grievance with his agent and the Eagles(a 5th round pick and James Thrash? is that a bad joke?), not the league. __________________ That's right - I'm a guy in a suit eating a Blizzard. F U.

03-08-2004, 03:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	For the record, John Clayton just said on Sportscenter that it's "one-hundred percent" that TO will be in a Baltimore uniform this season. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

03-08-2004, 08:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	Yet the ESPN articles keep on coming http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1754203 __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

03-08-2004, 09:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	The amusing thing in all this is, that we were mentioned along with Philly as the two teams he really wanted to play for before all this BS. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun