ace81385

THis is really troubling me .. Like im losing sleep over this for like the past 10 yrs lol. Im a die hard Rangers fan and i think they are cursed or something. The answer to all their problems is throw money at it instead of developing talent. Its honestly sad that the team hasnt made the playoffs in lord knows how long . They honestly are just interested in filling the seats and they do so by hiring washed up former all-stars and paying them millions of dollars. Id rather see them win I dont care if they got Jagr Lindros Kovalev it dotn matter they just need to win.

Nikilidstrom

The players they have aren't washed up, they are highly talented. The problem is that they all want to be THE STAR, and they can't seem to find a coach that can get past all those egos, and just instill a solid work ethic and a good game plan. It is hard to get a bunch of highly talented players, with their own ideas about how the game should be played, to listen to one guy and buy into a single system. And they just keep adding new egos every year that want to play the game their way.

Also, once you get past the stars, it all goes down hill from there. They have absolutely no roleplayers, besides maybe Barnaby, that just work their asses off for you every night. Its the Kris Drapers, the Todd Whites, and the Steve Konowalchuks of the league that get teams through the rough times.

GSRIDER

yup ... too much star power. In theory they shouldn't be losing. I quit following them after lindros joined their ranks.

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Quadraton

A funny story a friend of mine was telling me;

When Glen Sather (current Rangers GM) was GM for the Edmonton Oilers, he kept telling everyone he wasn't able to create a good team, because he didn't have any money. Well, now he's with the Rangers, and he has all the money in the world, and he <B>still</B> can't create a good team.

The folks down in the Edmonton media like pointing that out to him frequently

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"A witty saying proves nothing"
- Voltaire

silent_jay

The Rangers simply have too many egos on the team, while on paper they have one of the best teams in the league on the ice they are well below par performance wise, they need to get rid of some players that are big egos and don't really fit into the equation, keep some vets to mentor the younger talent but for heavens sake realize that no matter how much money Slats throws at this problem it will not go away until the egos do.

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ace81385

Ya good point ,also their problem is they dont kee players long enough to get any chemistry going u cant just throw 5 guys on the ice and hope for something good. Like most good teams have been building on it for a while developing younger stars andkeeping lines together. I also think all these superstars are just after a pay check!

HeyAgain

In order for the Rangers to win anything, they have sign or trade for an All-Star caliber goalie.

A good goalie will be able to hide the flaws/mistakes of the defencemens and give the team a chance to win each and every game.

silent_jay

a good goalie doesn't cover mistakes for the defencemen all the time they can only bail them out so often before the flaws show through. Good defence is the key for any team to win, if you can keep the puck out of your end it makes it a whole lot easier for the forwards to score.

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TheShadow

Yep, The last two posts said it. The NYR need defence and a good goalie - Someone to continue Richter's legacy. If they could avoid buying more forwards, get a solid defence going and fire/force retire Glen Sather [Not likely], things might look up for them.

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You know that song that goes like...

stickyrice

Sather is the ultimate quick fix GM and denies the real problems with NYR.

The only reason why I love to see the Rangers suffer is because I'm a die hard Canucks fan (damn 94 series.... but still probably one of the best series ever imo). I do feel bad for your team though.

How do you kill a snake? You cut off the head. In this case, it's a two headed snake: Sather and Messier. Once those two are gone, your healing will begin.

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silent_jay

You can't really blame the whole thing on Slats, I mean he isn't the one out there playing the game and he can't put the puck in the net, or he can't keep the puck out of his net. To also blame it on Messier is unfair, the responsibility for this teams poor performance is solely on the players they don't have the desire to win.

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ace81385

YA honestly I believe a good goalie makes a world of a difference. The Rangers would be a way better if they had a world class goalie someone who isnt gonna let inthose weak goals. In order to win in the nhl u need to beable to win those hard fought 2-1,1-0 games and the rangers cant do that because Frankly their defence aint great but more importantly Dunham isnt that special. If they spent money on defense and a goalie they would win

silent_jay

trust me i've played the game and a team can have the greatest goalie in the league and still lose. Ever hear the old saying one player doesn't win the game, well that shoots your theory out the window. It isn't players that the Rangers need it's heart and you can't trade for that it has to come from within your players. If you've played any kind of high level hockey you will understand what i am talking about. Trading for a goalie and some defencemen will only contribute to the ego problems.

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stickyrice

I agree that a goalie for this team would make a big difference but I seriously do believe that the Rangers do need to do some major rebuilding. Messier is a great leader but in my opinion, he's not as intimitating as he used to be.

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silent_jay

of course he isn't intimidating he's like 41 yrs old, why is everybody convinced that one player (a goalie) is going to turn around this team. when has a goalie influenced his team so much that he can carry them through the remainder of the regular season and the playoffs. not gonna happen, i've said it before and i'll say it again one player does not make the team.

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WarWagon

Don't feel bad, just look at the Mets, Knicks, Jets, Giants... etc etc

Only thing that offers me some consolation is that everyone around here is a Browns fan

bigbad

Look at Anaheim last year, their goalie was the ONLY reason they made it as far as they did. Detroit got hosed harsh because against ANY other team the amount of goals they scored and let in would've got them to the second round easy, Giguerre carried them as far as they went.

As for the Rangers, I think it's that no matter how well they play the players know that the owners will keep throwing money at them, so there isn't really an incentive to try as hard as they are able to. And Messier is a great player and a great leader, the Canucks were damned lucky to get him as he imparted his knowledge to the current crop of Canucks back when we weren't even making the playoffs, which lead to the awesome team (most nights) that we have now.

silent_jay

finally someone else realizes that Messier is one of the best leaders in the dressing room in this league, and was that not 41 tear old Mess. fighting against the Islanders the other night, he is still intimidating but in a more subtle way.

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stickyrice

Hasek with Buffalo. They were nothing without him.

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silent_jay

What did Buffalo do with Hasek I don't remember them winning the cup, and even though Hasek kept the puck out there were still players putting the puck in, so a goalie can in no way carry a team he can't put the puck in the net he can stop the opposing team and give his team chances to stay in the game but he can't carry a team. There were good players on Buffalo in the time span that Hasek was there not just him.

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bigbad

They deserved to win the cup against Dallas, they got screwed by the league on the Hull goal though. Friggin league.

silent_jay

Could have, could have, but didn't. it all means a goalie can't do it all.

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Loup

Of course not - hockey is a team sport. But the goalie is the key player that will make or break the season, especially in the playoffs. How far would Anaheim have made it last season if Giguere wasn't standing on his head making the saves? In the end you could say that the rest of the team let him down.

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"If you cannot lift the load off another's back, do not walk away. Try to lighten it."
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silent_jay

A goalie can't make or break a team, season, or playoff series, he can keep his team in games, but the players still have to do the scoring. Giguere did what he is paid to do stop the puck, how far would Anaheim have gotten had no one been scoring goals? you see the original argument was that would a goalie for the Rangers turn the team around, and the answer is no. As long as they can't score goals they will not win even if their goalie gets ravw reviews for standing on his head.

The rest of the team didn't let Gigeure down they got beat by a better team play the game it happens.

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Kaos

1993-1994, Patrick Roy with the Montreal Canadians. He backstopped that team to the Stanley Cup. He earned that Vezina that year.

stickyrice

Hasek did a hell of a lot for Buffalo when he was there. They would've never even made it close to the finals in '99 if they didn't have him. The only name I remember playing on that team is Peca (and Zhitnik?). Was never really a buffalo fan at all.

Hey Mika Norinen scored a goal last week. Who says a goalie can't break a game now eh? lol but seriously, yes it can be argued that a goalie cannot win a game/series/stanley cup, but remember that players cannot win a game/series/stanley cup without goaltending.

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silent_jay

Actually players can win games without good goaltending as long as thier defence is keeping the puck in the offensive zone and out of the defensive then the goalie may end up with 10-15 shots which is nothing and hardly worth mentioning. If the offence scores then the team won and the goalie contributed maybe 13 saves nothing spectacular.

Um do you have a clue yes he was the goalie in that series but did he singlehandedly win the series. No. Did he stop all the shots, yes score all the goals, no kill all the penalties. No. Please people take some advice from someone who has played every level of this game a hot goalie can keep you in games with big saves, but he can't win the game for his team, unless he scores an empty net goal in a 0-0 tie.
He simply can't carry a team through the play-offs, have any of you ever played a play-off series in a major-junior, pro or semi-pro league, if you have then you would know what I am talking about, if not it is lost on you.

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ace81385

Honestly a good goalie is the key to winning . Without a good goalie to win the close 1-0 2-1 games your team isnt going to get anywhere. The Rangers are honestly at the point where if they had the goalie to make the big save and keep them in the game i think they would be a lot better.

silent_jay

Good defencemen and forwards are the key in those situations because if you could keep the puck out of your end then what part did the goalie play. Sorry but the goalie is not as much of a contributing factor as everyone thinks.

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stickyrice

No I meant without goaltending at all. You said if players don't score goals, they won't win. I meant that if goalies don't stop pucks, teams can't win. Just making a parallel to your arguement. I don't disagree with you but I do believe both sides are true.

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silent_jay

Teams can still win if goalies don't stop pucks look at the 6-4 and 7-6 wins the goalies probably played horrible but not all thier fault also defenceman to blame. I see your point now that I quit having a brainfart.

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MikeyChalupa

POTVIN SUCKS!

Okay, now that I got that out of the way, this MSG mess keeps me up at night too. The Rangers have been my team since I was a wee tyke staying up way past my bedtime to see games from the Blue Seats (now teal). The way I see it, these things have to change before the Rangers can ever become competitive:

1. A real coach. Yes, the Rangers have most of the pieces in place, but as we saw with the Yankees, Torre's greatest influence on that team was to get the pieces to fit together, kept potential ego clashes in check (most of the time) and produced a winner. NOBODY since Mike Keenan has been able to do this. Yes, Messier is perhaps one of the greatest locker room leaders ever, but clearly with this bunch he can't do it alone.

2. New ownership. Dolan & co. have destroyed not only our beloved Rangers, but the Knicks as well. Both teams are being run the same way: Screw the future, put fans in the seats today. Dolan is the antithesis of Steinbrenner. While George sometimes gets TOO involved in the team, he does truly deeply want to win championships, and does what it takes to deliver them to the fans. Dolan will spend lots of money, but only to get players that will make you want to come to the game and buy overpriced food (though an MSG knish is about as good as it gets). I truly believe that he doesn't give two shits if the Rangers or Knicks ever see the playoffs again.

3. Physical play. The Rangers CAN NOT HIT. They WON'T TAKE HITS. Their play in the corners is shameful. They have no true enforcer, other than Dale Purinton, and he's a healthy scratch most nights. They don't even have a real two-way forward. They allow opposing offenses to set up in front of their net and score goals that any other defense would not.

4. Disciplined play. Stupid penalties and resultant power-play goals frustrate me to no end, and yet they happen almost every night. The Rangers have a terrible penalty kill and an even worse power play. These MUST be fixed if they realistically expect to contend with their own division, let alone the Western Conference.

I will bleed Ranger Blue until the day I die; in fact I'm currently in the process of requesting to hold my Navy re-enlistment on the ice at MSG before a game early next season. As a New York fan I am required to support my teams, win or lose. But I am also required to point out what's wrong with it, and the Rangers have more problems than all the other NY teams put together. We are well on the way to missing the playoffs again this year, and nobody in the front office seems to care.

Hey, at least we kicked Islander ass the other night.

-Mikey

bigbad

It's still a matter of having a goalie who sucks less that particular night

silent_jay

no it's not it's a matter of a team playing better, sorry man I've played hockey everywhere and never has a goalie carried a team and if you think a goaltender can turn everything around continue reading stats I'll take my first hand experience.

As for the Ranger MikeyChalupa you forgot HEART on your lists of needs for the Rangers they all play like they have eggs in thier pockets, or as if there's a ghost in the corners. What is the ratio of N. American players to others that could be a factor. I doubt that ownership is a problem because if that was the case there payroll would be much smaller.

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bigbad

Just because you've never seen a goalie carrying a team doesn't mean it's not there, I bet you've never seen the Taj Mahal in your whole life, which is greater than the percentage of your life playing hockey, so does that mean it doesn't exist either? Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy.

silent_jay

All right I'll keep this nice and simple for you bigbad so you can follow along are you ready here we go: hockey is a team sport which means that it takes a team to win which means that all members of said team have to contribute to said win. simple enough. 1 player does not make a team,if it did then the payroll of the NHL teams would be considerably lower. You seem to be good with snappy comparrissons ohh he's never seen the Tahj Mahal so he probably thinks it's not there. But where is the proof to back up this a goalie can carry a team mindset of yours, so far you have only mentioned Anaheim and I have shown this to be untrue. It can't happen, can 1 player a team in the NFL, MLB, NBA, I think not you make no sense whatsoever when you think 1 player makes a team. Coaches are telling kids teamwork wins games should we throw this out the window. Not even Gretzky carried any teams he was on, and Lemieux always had a good supporting cast. So I am curious to see where you are going to take this next, let's hope it's off the 1 player makes a team subject, because it can't happen.

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stickyrice

agreed. that's why I've always loved hockey more than the NBA, NFL or MLB. I feel that it takes a larger amount of teamwork in the NHL to win a championship than other leagues. I don't mean that other sports don't have teamwork, but I do feel that winning a Stanley Cup takes the most amount of teamwork out of all of professional sports.

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Tempboy

Dominik Hasek, Buffalo Sabres, 1998-99 Stanely Cup Finals.

*shrug*

That's the first thing that came to mind when I thought of a single player carrying an entire team on his shoulders.

silent_jay

Did Hasek score goals for his team, no, he stopped pucks which enabled his TEAMMATES to score goals on the opposing team, a he did his job, a goalie can contribute to a win as a forward or defenceman can contribute to a win but no 1 player can make his team win, even if he is the best player on the team, he still can't score enough goals to win, did I not cover Hasek in a previous post, if you think he carried his team where is his Stanley Cup ring from when he was with Buffalo, oops he doesn't have one.

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rrf

yea the rangers really suck... just wanted to add that