Hockey Standings - Page 5 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

rockzilla · 02-19-2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikilidstrom
I thought Prusek was the Ottawa backup

He is, I just had a brain fart.

dylanmarsh · 02-20-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stickyrice
Unreliable goaltending? Are you serious? I know Cloutier and Hedberg aren't both Brodeurs or Turcos but if you compare their seasons to a lot of the other goalies in the league, I'd rather take the Vancouver duo. And I hope to god they never trade for a washed up Kolzig or an even more unreliable Turek.

You wanna talk about what is unreliable with the Canucks right now. Their defense. Absolutely brutal for the past 6-7 games.

Perhaps their defense is bad, but when you have a goalie putting up stats like this:

Dan Cloutier
Last 5 Games 2-3-0 GAA: 2.52, Save%: .894

Feb 5 (@ NJD) 0.00, 1.000

Feb 11 (CGY) 3.04, .897

Feb 13 (ATL) 4.04, .778

Feb 16 (@ COL) 0.00, 1.000

Feb 19 (@ MIN) 10.34, .600

...I think I'd make a move for a new goalie. But, you know, I like to see my team advance to the second round, whereas you may not.

silent_jay · 02-20-2004, 08:08 AM

you can't really judge a goalies performance based on 5 games, you can't say we better trade for a goalie we've only won 2 of the last 3. It's a 5 game stretch and threre is still a whole lot of hockey left to play before the playoffs. Although Clouthier is a little shakey at times Kolzig isn't exactly going to take the Canucks to the promised land.

dylanmarsh · 02-20-2004, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
you can't really judge a goalies performance based on 5 games

In the playoffs, one certainly can judge a goalie on a 5 game performance. Good luck with Cloutier.

silent_jay · 02-20-2004, 08:47 AM

yes in the playoffs you can judge a goalies performance in 5 games but the last time I checked this wasn't the playoffs. And did Clouthier not have back-to-back shutouts going into last nights game against Minni. even if he did only win 2 of his last 5 the 2 wins being shut-outs makes up for a lot.

stickyrice · 02-20-2004, 11:52 PM

I agree. I think it's unfair to base a goalie's performance over a 5 game stretch. And I think Clouts has got something to prove this year. People blame Clouts for the game 7 loss against the Wild but I don't at all. I believe he should've had the 3rd goal (and winning), but for the 1st, 2nd and 4th were puck luck and sloppy D.

bigbad · 02-21-2004, 07:40 PM

Vancouver is a goalie graveyard. Look at poor Felix Potvin, he was a star until he came here. And how many of our former goalies are now starters elsewhere in the league? That being said, I've been anti-Cloutier for years now and can't wait until we get a real goalie who can handle a puck.

silent_jay · 02-21-2004, 08:22 PM

So your opinion os biased from the start about Clouthier he's fine give him a break we could bring back Darren Pang to play for the Canucks, and Potvin is doing fine in Boston so I wouldn't say he isn't a STAR NOW.

stickyrice · 02-22-2004, 07:53 PM

Potvin is a back-up to Raycroft now.

Snow is considered a backup but plays pretty as much as Dipietro.

Kevin Weekes is now a starter for sad ass Carolina.

Corey Hirsch? Bob Essensa? Peter Skudra?

Sean Burke seems to be one of the few goalies that is actually considered a starter but I barely consider him a Canuck seeing that he was only with the organization for about 12 games or so.

*edit* funny thing is that the second anyone mentions Cloutier's name, the thread automatically becomes one about the playoffs. Check out the Canucks forum and you'll see like 83749832749823 threads about Cloutier and the playoffs.

silent_jay · 02-22-2004, 09:03 PM

Ya those fancy stats are great but where did I say that Vancouver wasn't a goalie graveyard, oppps I didn't, remember this thread when the play-offs roll around and suddenly there isn't any room on the bandwagon. My friends tell me I have a players view on the game because I played for 22 years and that is why most people can't understand that one player doesn't make a difference and they think a goalie or a high scoring winger is the answer to all prayers, but it never has been and never will be.

Oh yeah I have no desire to check out any forums on Clouthiers play-off performance, I probably feel the same way, as he does who cares. Insults and crap drip off hockey players backs it just doesn't affect us.

bigbad · 02-23-2004, 01:48 AM

I'm the guy everyone's always bitching at for pointing out Cloutier's major screwups, especially during the playoffs

So while I'm constantly on the Canucks' bandwagon, never, EVER been on Cloutiers. And again, trading a few stocks on the internet does not make one a stock market expert.

And I have to point out exceptions to the insults dripping off hockey players' backs, both Bertuzzi and Jovo have lashed out at the press and fans, Jovo doing it just the other day when he called up a radio show and lambasted some guy for calling the Canucks a bunch of clowns

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 06:25 AM

Wow a couple of people jump on the press I was actually talking about people criticizing them sorry should of put that in, but I see nothing wrong with players criticizing the media they do it to them all the time, hell even I've done it more than 5 times. Oh yeah and me playing pro hockey , and in the OHL, and the QMJHL, ya it does make me an expert on the game

stickyrice · 02-23-2004, 12:34 PM

I liked it when Jovo lashed out at the callers on the radio when the team was called a bunch of clowns. It shows that he cares for this team and defends the them for their effort every night.

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 01:09 PM

exactly the media should have more of this done I know I had a few arguments with reporters when they'd put my teams down, the comments from the fans was what i was talking about when i said it drips off thier backs

bigbad · 02-23-2004, 09:03 PM

It was a fan on a call in radio show that he lambasted, not the hosts, so you still wrong about fan criticism not mattering. And your statement was "Insults and crap drip off hockey players backs it just doesn't affect us." so you were generalizing across all hockey players, so two cases disproves your statement anyways.

That aside I'm totally not saying it's a bad thing Jovo called in, I thought it was awesome that he'd do something like that.

Aaaand another example, some guy in Singapore works 30 years soldering chips onto a circuitboard, it doesn't make him an electronics expert. It means he knows about a small segment of electronics related to his job, but not necessarily how to design, etc, you know?

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 11:16 PM

no offence dude but keep your little ending statements to yourself as they contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation, my experience playing the game actually has some bearing on the conversation.

How the hell am I supposed to know it was a fan you said a "guy" that could be taken as the host the co-host anyone do you think I get Vancouver sports call-in shows where I live. Yes I realized that I should of clarified that it was the fans comments that I was talking about which is what I thought I did in the post before yours or did you not notice that? here it is again:

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
the comments from the fans was what i was talking about when i said it drips off thier backs

There did you see it this time. or is that not clear enough?

bigbad · 02-24-2004, 12:10 AM

You keep saying experience overrules all, and it doesn't, I'm giving you examples of situations where experience doesn't mean that someone has knowledge, in the hopes that you'll eventually understand that. While your experiences do have some relevance to the topic, they are not the be all and end all of hockey, as they are YOUR experiences, and others, even among those that play hockey, will have had different. Therefore when you say that something is ABSOLUTE based just on your experience, it is a flawed argument and lacks cogency. When I point out stats, they are FACT.

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 05:23 AM

ok so the person who sits there and reads stats knows more than the person who has actually been in a game man what planet are you on your basically an armchair quarterback what you are comparing to hockey for experience is useless as they are 2 different things I have never said anything is absolute as you put it I am merely stating things as they went during my experiences your fancy stats don't tell you everything and I think you know nothing about this game and your main purpose is to aggitate because you are so clueless about this topic. And how can you say that me having experience gives me no knowledge about this subject, at least thats what I interprut from the first sentence of your post, man a person who has played the game his whole life is going to have more knowledge than someone who reads about something, I don't care if it's some dude in Singapore soldering shit or a fuckin hooker giving blowjobs, I'd take the head from the hooker with the experience than from the one who read about it. see I can use your little comparrisson's as well. I have never claimed to be the be all end all of hockey but trust me man I do have more knowledge than the likes of you, your facts don't always tell everything and if you go by just stats then you are missing a large portion of the game try and learn the little intricacies of the game, and not just read box scores. You're probably one of those guys who believes a team will lose if they haven't won on the 6th Saturday of the year and the moon is half and they are wearing white socks, all those stupid little stats that people like me see and say that's for those people who are clueless to believe.

dylanmarsh · 02-24-2004, 05:27 AM

May I just say that I still think Cloutier sucks?

Please continue your argument.

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 05:44 AM

Not an argument just trying to get an armchair quarterback to realize that experience counts for more than reading the box scores over a bowl of Lucky Charms, while he was out there eating cereal and whatever I was actually getting knocked around and learning the game. I've read 30 some books on Vietnam, does that mean I know more than the Vet who was there because if I go by bigbads way of thinking anything that I read I must have more experience than the person who was actually there and doing something.

exponent_doobie · 02-24-2004, 03:23 PM

When the play-offs come throw all the stats away. It's a whole new game and anything can happen. Not to mention the players would have gained some experience from earlier downfalls.

For fucks sake look at Anahiem last year, who would of thought the 8th seed would make it to the playoffs.

soccerchamp76 · 02-24-2004, 05:47 PM

Now the Blues fire Quenneville.

As a Blues fan, I think this move was necessary as the team appeared lackadaisical and they need a change.

Any opinion on the move (along with Phoenix's change) from other Blues or non-Blues fans?

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 07:16 PM

Both teams needed a coaching change they were playing sub par hockey for awhile now and you can't fire the whole team so you need a scapegoat, did Phoenix hire Bowness on the interm or full time?

Quote:

Originally posted by exponent_doobie
When the play-offs come throw all the stats away. It's a whole new game and anything can happen. Not to mention the players would have gained some experience from earlier downfalls.

For fucks sake look at Anahiem last year, who would of thought the 8th seed would make it to the playoffs.

any team can beat any team on any night that is the great part of this game, the play-offs are where the real players come to play and the europeans try and find a safe hiding place

BulletCatcher · 02-24-2004, 07:22 PM

Blues fan here...

I had a discussion the other day with a few friends of mine concerning the Blues recent woes and told them I'd be surprised if Coach Q lasted the regular season. They chastised me for giving up saying that he's always been able to rally the troops in the past (except for in the playoffs). Unfortunately it looks like I was right. There was something about this recent slide that just didn't mirror the problems of the past. Watch the games, you could almost see the apathy on most of the players faces. Quenneville had lost the attention and direction of the team. It's not that the players lost respect for him, they just stopped listening.

So while I personally think Quenneville is a great coach and hate to see him go I do think it was the right move.

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 09:26 PM

Sometimes a coach has been in one place for so long that it is just time for a change, that happened with a coach I had before but I am no longer allowed to discuss my experiences, some people don't appreciate it, so I will leave it at that. I wouldn't want to sound like an "oracle" of hockey.hahaha

Tempboy · 02-25-2004, 07:20 AM

oh maaan.. grow up, ya big baby.

Either you don't have a firm grasp of the English language and therefore misinterpreted what I said, or you're just being plain dumb about it now.

And please.. get my name out of your sig. Thanks.

silent_jay · 02-25-2004, 07:49 AM

no problem dude but don't accuse me of being something I never said I was,

and by the way don't take this the wrong way or get pissy but where the hell does an Aussie learn about hockey anyway?

Tempboy · 02-25-2004, 07:59 AM

I'm not Australian.. I'm here for school only.
Calgary is where I call home.

silent_jay · 02-25-2004, 08:10 AM

Cool bet you're enjoying the heat there more than the cold in Calgary

bigbad · 02-27-2004, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
Not an argument just trying to get an armchair quarterback to realize that experience counts for more than reading the box scores over a bowl of Lucky Charms, while he was out there eating cereal and whatever I was actually getting knocked around and learning the game. I've read 30 some books on Vietnam, does that mean I know more than the Vet who was there because if I go by bigbads way of thinking anything that I read I must have more experience than the person who was actually there and doing something.

Since you are obviously not grasping any of the simple concepts I'm trying to get you to understand I'm not going to bother wasting my time after this post. For your war analogy, you may know tactical decisions better than the average Vietnam vet who has not studied them, yes. They of course know more about the actual shooting and such, but it was the guys who had studied tactics that had the higher ranks and the guys who had studied tactics that gave the orders. If you still cannot get a handle on this I'm afraid your ignorance is too much for me to overcome.

Anyone else notice Cloutier almost flub ANOTHER Detroit shot from their blue line the other night? I was laughing my ass off, it was great

Daniel was the mother fucking man!

dylanmarsh · 02-27-2004, 08:51 AM

Perhaps, the name Cloutier could become synonymous with the word horrible or the term "extreme-suckiness." This, of course, would be much in the same way the name Munson became a derogatory name in the bowling world after the movie "Kingpin."

Good thing they have the Sedin twins.

maxhooters · 02-27-2004, 02:52 PM

lets go red wings. nice trade today!!!!

Serpent · 02-27-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maxhooters
lets go red wings. nice trade today!!!!

Do they have the biggest pay roll per year yet?

silent_jay · 02-27-2004, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigbad
Since you are obviously not grasping any of the simple concepts I'm trying to get you to understand I'm not going to bother wasting my time after this post. For your war analogy, you may know tactical decisions better than the average Vietnam vet who has not studied them, yes. They of course know more about the actual shooting and such, but it was the guys who had studied tactics that had the higher ranks and the guys who had studied tactics that gave the orders. If you still cannot get a handle on this I'm afraid your ignorance is too much for me to overcome.

Anyone else notice Cloutier almost flub ANOTHER Detroit shot from their blue line the other night? I was laughing my ass off, it was great Daniel was the mother fucking man!

Trust me I know nothing more than a Vet of any war because they were there, and there is no better knowledge than firsthand, grasp that concept.

02-20-2004, 08:08 AM	#163 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	you can't really judge a goalies performance based on 5 games, you can't say we better trade for a goalie we've only won 2 of the last 3. It's a 5 game stretch and threre is still a whole lot of hockey left to play before the playoffs. Although Clouthier is a little shakey at times Kolzig isn't exactly going to take the Canucks to the promised land. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-20-2004, 08:47 AM	#165 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	yes in the playoffs you can judge a goalies performance in 5 games but the last time I checked this wasn't the playoffs. And did Clouthier not have back-to-back shutouts going into last nights game against Minni. even if he did only win 2 of his last 5 the 2 wins being shut-outs makes up for a lot. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-20-2004, 11:52 PM	#166 (permalink)
stickyrice Crazy	I agree. I think it's unfair to base a goalie's performance over a 5 game stretch. And I think Clouts has got something to prove this year. People blame Clouts for the game 7 loss against the Wild but I don't at all. I believe he should've had the 3rd goal (and winning), but for the 1st, 2nd and 4th were puck luck and sloppy D. __________________ Can't think of anything to say....

02-21-2004, 08:22 PM	#168 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	So your opinion os biased from the start about Clouthier he's fine give him a break we could bring back Darren Pang to play for the Canucks, and Potvin is doing fine in Boston so I wouldn't say he isn't a STAR NOW. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-22-2004, 07:53 PM	#169 (permalink)
stickyrice Crazy	Potvin is a back-up to Raycroft now. Snow is considered a backup but plays pretty as much as Dipietro. Kevin Weekes is now a starter for sad ass Carolina. Corey Hirsch? Bob Essensa? Peter Skudra? Sean Burke seems to be one of the few goalies that is actually considered a starter but I barely consider him a Canuck seeing that he was only with the organization for about 12 games or so. edit funny thing is that the second anyone mentions Cloutier's name, the thread automatically becomes one about the playoffs. Check out the Canucks forum and you'll see like 83749832749823 threads about Cloutier and the playoffs. __________________ Can't think of anything to say....

02-21-2004, 07:40 PM	#167 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	Vancouver is a goalie graveyard. Look at poor Felix Potvin, he was a star until he came here. And how many of our former goalies are now starters elsewhere in the league? That being said, I've been anti-Cloutier for years now and can't wait until we get a real goalie who can handle a puck.

02-22-2004, 09:03 PM	#170 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Ya those fancy stats are great but where did I say that Vancouver wasn't a goalie graveyard, oppps I didn't, remember this thread when the play-offs roll around and suddenly there isn't any room on the bandwagon. My friends tell me I have a players view on the game because I played for 22 years and that is why most people can't understand that one player doesn't make a difference and they think a goalie or a high scoring winger is the answer to all prayers, but it never has been and never will be. Oh yeah I have no desire to check out any forums on Clouthiers play-off performance, I probably feel the same way, as he does who cares. Insults and crap drip off hockey players backs it just doesn't affect us. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-23-2004, 01:48 AM	#171 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	I'm the guy everyone's always bitching at for pointing out Cloutier's major screwups, especially during the playoffs So while I'm constantly on the Canucks' bandwagon, never, EVER been on Cloutiers. And again, trading a few stocks on the internet does not make one a stock market expert. And I have to point out exceptions to the insults dripping off hockey players' backs, both Bertuzzi and Jovo have lashed out at the press and fans, Jovo doing it just the other day when he called up a radio show and lambasted some guy for calling the Canucks a bunch of clowns

02-23-2004, 06:25 AM	#172 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Wow a couple of people jump on the press I was actually talking about people criticizing them sorry should of put that in, but I see nothing wrong with players criticizing the media they do it to them all the time, hell even I've done it more than 5 times. Oh yeah and me playing pro hockey , and in the OHL, and the QMJHL, ya it does make me an expert on the game __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-23-2004 at 06:36 AM..

02-23-2004, 12:34 PM	#173 (permalink)
stickyrice Crazy	I liked it when Jovo lashed out at the callers on the radio when the team was called a bunch of clowns. It shows that he cares for this team and defends the them for their effort every night. __________________ Can't think of anything to say....

02-23-2004, 01:09 PM	#174 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	exactly the media should have more of this done I know I had a few arguments with reporters when they'd put my teams down, the comments from the fans was what i was talking about when i said it drips off thier backs __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-23-2004, 09:03 PM	#175 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	It was a fan on a call in radio show that he lambasted, not the hosts, so you still wrong about fan criticism not mattering. And your statement was "Insults and crap drip off hockey players backs it just doesn't affect us." so you were generalizing across all hockey players, so two cases disproves your statement anyways. That aside I'm totally not saying it's a bad thing Jovo called in, I thought it was awesome that he'd do something like that. Aaaand another example, some guy in Singapore works 30 years soldering chips onto a circuitboard, it doesn't make him an electronics expert. It means he knows about a small segment of electronics related to his job, but not necessarily how to design, etc, you know?

02-24-2004, 12:10 AM	#177 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	You keep saying experience overrules all, and it doesn't, I'm giving you examples of situations where experience doesn't mean that someone has knowledge, in the hopes that you'll eventually understand that. While your experiences do have some relevance to the topic, they are not the be all and end all of hockey, as they are YOUR experiences, and others, even among those that play hockey, will have had different. Therefore when you say that something is ABSOLUTE based just on your experience, it is a flawed argument and lacks cogency. When I point out stats, they are FACT.

02-24-2004, 05:23 AM	#178 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	ok so the person who sits there and reads stats knows more than the person who has actually been in a game man what planet are you on your basically an armchair quarterback what you are comparing to hockey for experience is useless as they are 2 different things I have never said anything is absolute as you put it I am merely stating things as they went during my experiences your fancy stats don't tell you everything and I think you know nothing about this game and your main purpose is to aggitate because you are so clueless about this topic. And how can you say that me having experience gives me no knowledge about this subject, at least thats what I interprut from the first sentence of your post, man a person who has played the game his whole life is going to have more knowledge than someone who reads about something, I don't care if it's some dude in Singapore soldering shit or a fuckin hooker giving blowjobs, I'd take the head from the hooker with the experience than from the one who read about it. see I can use your little comparrisson's as well. I have never claimed to be the be all end all of hockey but trust me man I do have more knowledge than the likes of you, your facts don't always tell everything and if you go by just stats then you are missing a large portion of the game try and learn the little intricacies of the game, and not just read box scores. You're probably one of those guys who believes a team will lose if they haven't won on the 6th Saturday of the year and the moon is half and they are wearing white socks, all those stupid little stats that people like me see and say that's for those people who are clueless to believe. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-24-2004, 05:27 AM	#179 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	May I just say that I still think Cloutier sucks? Please continue your argument.

02-24-2004, 05:44 AM	#180 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Not an argument just trying to get an armchair quarterback to realize that experience counts for more than reading the box scores over a bowl of Lucky Charms, while he was out there eating cereal and whatever I was actually getting knocked around and learning the game. I've read 30 some books on Vietnam, does that mean I know more than the Vet who was there because if I go by bigbads way of thinking anything that I read I must have more experience than the person who was actually there and doing something. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-24-2004, 03:23 PM	#181 (permalink)
exponent_doobie Tilted	When the play-offs come throw all the stats away. It's a whole new game and anything can happen. Not to mention the players would have gained some experience from earlier downfalls. For fucks sake look at Anahiem last year, who would of thought the 8th seed would make it to the playoffs.

02-24-2004, 05:47 PM	#182 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Now the Blues fire Quenneville. As a Blues fan, I think this move was necessary as the team appeared lackadaisical and they need a change. Any opinion on the move (along with Phoenix's change) from other Blues or non-Blues fans? __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

02-24-2004, 07:22 PM	#184 (permalink)
BulletCatcher Crazy Location: America's Outback	Blues fan here... I had a discussion the other day with a few friends of mine concerning the Blues recent woes and told them I'd be surprised if Coach Q lasted the regular season. They chastised me for giving up saying that he's always been able to rally the troops in the past (except for in the playoffs). Unfortunately it looks like I was right. There was something about this recent slide that just didn't mirror the problems of the past. Watch the games, you could almost see the apathy on most of the players faces. Quenneville had lost the attention and direction of the team. It's not that the players lost respect for him, they just stopped listening. So while I personally think Quenneville is a great coach and hate to see him go I do think it was the right move.

02-24-2004, 09:26 PM	#185 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Sometimes a coach has been in one place for so long that it is just time for a change, that happened with a coach I had before but I am no longer allowed to discuss my experiences, some people don't appreciate it, so I will leave it at that. I wouldn't want to sound like an "oracle" of hockey.hahaha __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-25-2004, 07:20 AM	#186 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	oh maaan.. grow up, ya big baby. Either you don't have a firm grasp of the English language and therefore misinterpreted what I said, or you're just being plain dumb about it now. And please.. get my name out of your sig. Thanks. Last edited by Tempboy; 02-25-2004 at 07:23 AM..

02-25-2004, 07:49 AM	#187 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	no problem dude but don't accuse me of being something I never said I was, and by the way don't take this the wrong way or get pissy but where the hell does an Aussie learn about hockey anyway? __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-25-2004, 07:59 AM	#188 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	I'm not Australian.. I'm here for school only. Calgary is where I call home.

02-25-2004, 08:10 AM	#189 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Cool bet you're enjoying the heat there more than the cold in Calgary __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-27-2004, 08:51 AM	#191 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	Perhaps, the name Cloutier could become synonymous with the word horrible or the term "extreme-suckiness." This, of course, would be much in the same way the name Munson became a derogatory name in the bowling world after the movie "Kingpin." Good thing they have the Sedin twins.

02-27-2004, 02:52 PM	#192 (permalink)
maxhooters Crazy	lets go red wings. nice trade today!!!! __________________ making four left turns is not a sport!!!!!