NickKell

IF the Red Sox can trade Manny for A-Rod and can convince Nomar to move to second, just think about how crazy the 2004 team will be.

The starting line-up will be Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield and whoever (does it really matter, it will probably be Kim).

Then there will be a lineup which had the greatest offensive output last season, minus Manny, but adding A-rod!

The defense gets insanely better and I don't see anyone stopping them at that point.

dylanmarsh

Well, the big problem is with the luxury tax BS and Henry's unwillingness to go over it. If they do pick up Arod, which I'm still on the fence about, they would have to move both Manny and Nomar to keep under the luxury tax plateau. The scenario of Nomar at 2nd and Arod at SS would be a beautiful thing, but I just don't see it happening.

One interesting scenario would be the Sox NOT signing Pedro to an extension and giving that money to Nomar in his extension. Pedro definitely does not seem like the same pitcher, and I think his $17M could be spent better.

BigBlueWrecking

If they land ARod, Nomar is out of the door. It has to do with money and the fact that Boston is tired of his act. Even if they did have all of them, the Yankees will have as good of a staff.

The real person the Sox need to get is Faulke. He is the guy that could make a difference. The Yankees Bullpen right now is light years ahead of the Sox, but it would be about equal if they added him.

Adding Shef to the Yankees lineup, along with a guy like Palmeiro(if they get him) would be enough to slug with anyone.

The Lineup would be:

Pettite (hopefully)
Mussina
Vasquez
Contreras
Weaver/Lieber or someone they pick up through a trade.

wrongfullyaccuzd

You know what? I'm a Yankees fan, but I hope Boston gets A-Rod. Because no Red Sox fan will ever again be able to complain about the Yankees buying teams. That hasn't been far from truth in the past couple years with the additions of Manny, Millar, Damon, etc., but this year so far they have Schilling and potentially A-Rod. It will hopefully shut a lot of Red Sox fans up as far as that goes. Plus, the Yankees will beat them anyway.

NickKell

The difference is we haven't bought any players, they've all be aquired through trades. If we get A-Rod, it will be for Manny. The Yankees flat out buy free agents. But thanks for your support!

someoneelse

You think Boston will actually start Kim?? After what he did to the reporter and the Fans?? I think he will be booed at Fenway.

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dylanmarsh

According to ESPN.com, the latest trade rumor with Nomar is him going to the Halos for Troy Glaus and Jarrod Washburn. This is the first trade involving Nomar that actually makes sense for both sides. Still, the combined salaries for Glaus and Washburn is upwards of $11M. Still less than what Nomar would sign for, but still quite a bit they'd have to absorb.

BigBlueWrecking

Um...how is it that you got Manny in the first place? Way to go hypocrite.

dylanmarsh

Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Danny Tartabull, Darryl Strawberry, Jimmy Key, Wade Boggs, Jason Giambi, Mike Mussina, Jose Contreras, El Duque, Hideki Matsui, David Wells, Gary Sheffield, and many others I can't think of right now.

Argue what you will about the above list of names, but when the Yankees signed these guys, most were at the top of their game or key components to their World Series runs.

Now, compare all of those names to the likes of Matt Young, Nick Esasky, Manny Ramirez, Andre Dawson, Jack Clark, Ramiro Mendoza, and Johnny Damon. The Red Sox trade for whatever talent the Yankees don't go after or don't care about.

Although I would agree the Sox went out and bought Ramirez, given the long history of the Yankees BUYING their World Series rings, I think one significant free agency signing in 30 years (Manny Ramirez) is not really buying anything, but keeping the Sox in relative contention with the Yankees.

Oh, and BigBlueWrecking, there's no need of name calling here; save that for the bleachers.

BigBlueWrecking

Manny, Johnny Damon, Kevin Millar (OK he was "acquired for cash" from the MArlins, but if that is not buying a player...I do not know what is), Mike Timlin, Ramiro Mendoza, Bill Muellar. Most or all of them were key components to last years team. They have also tried to buy plenty of free agents in the past, that spurned them because they are the Red Sox. Bernie Williams and Jose Contreras are two Yankees that come to mind. Both were offered MORE money to go to the Sox.

I will not dispute that the Red Sox have made some good trades (Lowe and Jason V. For Heathcliff is one that comes to mind), but they have signed their share of free agents. They also try to pluck teams that can't afford their players (something the Yankees do with the best of them as well). Schilling and Pedro are prime examples of that. I still consider that buying a player. The Yanks traded for Vasquez, but they bought him.

If anything I think the Yankees are smarter in most cases for waiting until they are free agents so they do not have to give up players. They would have had to give up Soriano to get Giambi, but they waited.

Two of the dumbest trades the Yankees made will kill them for years:

Lowell to Florida for Ed Yarnall and Boone for Brandon Claussen. Boone is ok, but Claussen is a good lefty prospect. WAY too much to give up in my opinion.



Edited because I forgot Tim Wakefield on that list. of FA signings (he was a FA signing in 95 to a minor league deal, but still a key component to last years team and was a FA.)

dylanmarsh

BBW: I think you missed my point about the list of FA's: the Yankees are willing to dictate the market and pay whatever it takes to keep players from other teams and to make Steinbrenner feel good about himself; eg: the Red Sox.

I would agree with you that the Sox do trade with other teams for marquee players, however some of the guys they've traded away in past years have gone on to help other teams; eg: Carl Pavano and the 2003 Florida Marlins. I have a bad feeling about Fossum going to Arizona.

As far as, Timmy Wakefield, Bill Mueller, etc, these guys were on the scrap pile of FA ballplayers and the only choice, besides opening a car dealership, was to come to Boston.

I would agree with you about Claussen and I would throw Nick Johnson in there, too. But, being the wonderful Yankees they are, I'm sure they'll have a whole new crop of FA's to make themselves better when Claussen and Johnson pan-out.

BigBlueWrecking

I am not upset about Nick leaving as much as Claussen. Nick will be a good hitter, but never a real power guy, IMO. We also got a 27 year old dominant pitcher (he has had more quality starts than anyone on the Yankees staff including Pettite over the last three years, just no run support). We have enough hitting, just not enough pitching.

I hear you about Fossum, he is going to be good I think. An awful lot for a 38 year old pitcher who has had a history of injuries...but both teams are past the point of reason now.

Boone is just not good enough to give up that kind of prospect, IMO. Especially after the Yankees signed Henson to a colossal contract (idiots).

All I know is that if baseball even institutes a hard cap, both of these teams are screwed. They have given away all of thier prospects for the now, and have nothing lined up for the future.

PS...at least the Yankees and Sox are making good deals for the most part unlike the Mets and Dodgers!!

dylanmarsh

I NEVER thought I'd actually agree with a Yankees' fan but I do with these two comments.

I'm very skeptical of Schilling, but if he pans out like Clemens did in his later years, I'd be happy. I'm not expecting 20 wins or even 15 wins; I think he'll hover around 12 or 13. But if Pedro and Lowe get 15 a piece, the Sox staff will do better than the one with Burkett and Fossum.

I loved Fossum's breaking stuff, but his lack of fastball kinda made him one dimentional.

What do you think of the Yankees' staf without Clemens and a fatter Wells?

BigBlueWrecking

Wells...don't get me started. I like the addition of Vasquez a lot. I also think Contreras will pitch well if healthy. Mussin is Mussina, and if we stop dicking pettite around and get him back, I think we will be solid. We are spending more on our bullpen than some teams spend on their whole team with the additions of Quantrill and Gordon (that is retarded to spend that much on a bullpen).

If the Red Sox get Faulke, I would be more worried than if they get ARod. Getting ARod, but losing Manny (while still payhing him around 5 mil) plus not being able to afford Nomar and shipping him out west for prospects (I do not buy that Kevin Brown for Nomar deal because it makes such little sense)....that is losing a lot for one guy.

dylanmarsh

From what I've been reading about why these supposed trades might go down is due to the lack of communication Nomar, Manny, and Pedro show with the media and fans. Henry evidentially wants a central figure, like Arod, to be the voice and face of the Red Sox.

Of course, there's also the irony of Arod wearing number 3 and possibly breaking Ruth's homerun records.

Yea, I don't buy the Brown trade all that much either. I also think if Nomar was truly interested in staying with the Sox, he'd dump his agent and take a pay cut. I've always thought Nomar would be better suited at 3rd, too.

BTW, do you think Steinbrenner screwed up the Yankee off season by going after Sheffield and not Kaz Matsui? Personally, I woulda dumped Boone and gone after Matsui; he seems to be the real deal.

SiphonX

eh... you can't just stick a bunch of good players together and expect them to play well. chemistry is insanely important and without good leadership or trust in eachother's abilities the team will go to shit. Look at the Marlins and the Angels... they both won with what they had, nothing too fancy.

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goppers

Both the Red Sox and the Yankees are trying to "buy" a championship. The Yankees are when compared with everyone else in baseball, the Red Sox are when compared with almost everyone except the Yankees in baseball. This wasn't any more apparent to me than when I went to Cleveland over thanksgiving and tried to talk to my relatives there about how great it was that the Sox first three pitchers were Pedro, Schilling and Lowe.

I'm biased as all boodigity, but I think the sox are having a better winter than the yanks. I just don't understand the moves the Yankees have made to this point. here is why -

1) WHY WHY WHY let Pettite get away?!?!? he wanted to play for the yanks, but they didn't make him feel wanted so he walked. That was just foolish. He is a good enough pitcher that the Sox were trying to get him away from the yanks by offering him a ton of cash. I dunno

B) Vasquez is the one pitcher I would have wanted ahead of Schilling right now. More than Colon or Milwood or anyone else out there. What I don't understand is why give up Nick Johnson. I say this because the deal wasn't Nick Johnson for Vasquez. It was Nick Johnson for one year of Vasquez. if george could have waited a year he could have had Vasquez as a FA and still had Johnson (i worry more when johnson is at the plate than any other yankee). Don't get me wrong, I think Vasquez will be great on the yankees, I just don't think it was worth price considering they could have had him in a year anyway.

III) Sheffield - I like this move. That guy can hit. I dunno about the clubhouse cancer stuff. I guess for 13 Million I would have gone for Vlad, but eh either works.


Quick junk on the sox moves

I'm a huge fossum fan, but the schilling move is great. Schilling for 12 million is just fine with me, and hopefully it will work as a roadmap for pedro's contract.

nomar arod manny trade I couldn't care less about. It won't make the sox any better, though maybe it would be nice to have a star that is willing to do interviews and what not. I guess maybe i should want it to happen because of the bad blood between nomar and john henry will probably prevent nomar from resigning here.

thephuse

Well.. The YAnkees only went throught with the VAsquez trade after knowing that Vasquez will sign with the Yankees long term.

I dont know about Sheff.. He had good years, but he's 38 years old now... Its not every year someone like Vladddd is availiable.. If we sign him now, we can have a bonafide right fielder with defense and offense for the next 10 years.

Schilling will still pitch well... at least better than Lowe that bum. Lowe had one good year and many bad years, and suddenly last year was the abberation..

I like the A-Rod trade.
1) 1 bat < 2 bats = A-Rod cant do more for the game that MAnny and Nomar can - more chances, more threat.
2) how can you call another team "Evil Empire" or paying too much when u have the most overpayed player in all of sports?

i guess you can tell imma yankee fan...

I like KEvin Brown.. if he just stays healthy.. he can be better than (gasp) PEttitte.. b/c as much as i loved pettitte, his ERA was 4.00+ and he was pitchin in Yankee stadium.. one of hte most lefty friendly parks out there. Brown, on the other hand had a 2.something ERA and was only 13-12 b/c of the awesome Dodgers run support (was the avg even over 1?)

Lofton=i dont like.. why get an old outfielder to replace an old outfielder?

Boone- oy.. what can i say... lowest of Boone family *sigh*

Soriano - what's this nonsense of movin him to OF.. he wasnt THAT bad.. keep him there, he's young.

well thats my ranting.. lets gooo yankS~

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