BC joining ACC? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

djtestudo · 10-11-2003, 09:27 PM

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/1011/1635604.html

Quote:

Boston College could become league's 12th team

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services

Boston College will leave the Big East Conference to become the 12th member of the Atlantic Coast Conference when an official invitation is offered Sunday, an ACC university official told the New York Times for Saturday's editions.

According to that official, Boston College is expected to be overwhelmingly approved when the ACC universities hold a conference call Sunday.

However, North Carolina State chancellor Marye Anne Fox told The Associated Press that the Times report was "completely premature."

"It's natural to think about Boston College and Syracuse because they are the ones we've already visited," Fox told the AP on Saturday, "but I wouldn't say we're restricted to just those schools.

"I haven't even decided myself which way I would vote," Fox added. "There have been subtle inaccuracies (in the media) that mean a lot, like the when, and the if, and the who. All of those are undefined."

A high-level source at Boston College told ESPN.com's Andy Katz on Friday that the university would accept an invitation if it was officially offered by the ACC. However, Boston College athletic director Gene DeFilippo told Katz on Saturday that the university has yet to receive word that it will receive that invitation.

In June, Miami and Virginia Tech announced that they would leave the Big East for the ACC starting in the 2004-05 academic year.

Adding a 12th team became more critical for the ACC after the NCAA Championship Cabinet and Football Issues committee recently failed to recommend that the NCAA management council allow a championship football game for leagues with fewer than 12 teams. Boston College's addition would put the ACC in position to hold a championship game worth an additional $10 million.

Spokesmen for Boston College and the Big East declined to comment to the Times. ACC officials could not be reached for comment.

Katz reported Friday that the exit fee from the Big East could range from $1 million to $5 million.

The ACC needs at least seven of nine votes by the chancellors and presidents to expand.

Two weeks ago, published reports said Notre Dame would be extended an invitation by the ACC. Those reports turned out to be false.

Fox said there is no set agenda for Sunday's teleconference. However, she said the ACC leadership would probably discuss the league being dropped as a defendant in a lawsuit by Big East schools over expansion.

The defection of Boston College, along with Miami and Virginia Tech, weakens the Big East, which is pursuing four colleges from Conference USA.

Louisville and Cincinnati could join Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Syracuse, Connecticut and Rutgers in a Big East football division (Temple has been voted out after 2004). Conference USA's Marquette and DePaul, which do not play football, are being courted to join the Big East's non-football sports.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

BC was one of the original possibilities, and it now looks to be a reality. Weird.

bond007 · 10-12-2003, 07:49 AM

this seems to be the most likely configuration...

ACC North:
BC, Maryland, Virginia, Va Tech, WF, NC St.

ACC South:
Miami, FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, NC, Duke

RoadRage · 10-12-2003, 08:05 AM

The invitation is now official: http://www.sportsline.com/general/story/6715523

Quote:

ACC votes to invite BC, will get conference title game

Oct. 12, 2003
SportsLine.com wire reports

RALEIGH, N.C. -- The Atlantic Coast Conference's presidents and chancellors voted Sunday to invite Boston College to join the league as its 12th member.

If the school accepts, the ACC would have enough members to stage a lucrative league championship football game.

"Now that the vote has been taken, we look forward to a strong academic partnership and collaboration should Boston College accept," North Carolina State chancellor Marye Anne Fox told the Associated Press on Sunday.

Boston College athletic director Gene DeFilippo would only say Sunday morning that he had "no confirmation" of the offer.

A message left for an ACC spokesman wasn't immediately returned. The league was expected to make a formal announcement later Sunday.

Miami and Virginia Tech were added to the nine-team conference in June and will begin play in 2004.

Boston College and Syracuse were in the ACC's original expansion plans, but were voted down in favor of adding the Hurricanes and Hokies.

ACC bylaws require campus visits of each school being considered for prospective membership. That requirement was satisfied before ACC presidents initially rejected Boston College for membership in June.

NCAA rules require that a conference have 12 schools to stage a league championship game.

Personally, I don't think Boston College should accept. Travel expenses would be through the roof, and now they're at the top of the heap (albeit a diminished heap) of the "Big" East that will still be part of the BCS on the next go-around.

gov135 · 10-12-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bond007
this seems to be the most likely configuration...

ACC North:
BC, Maryland, Virginia, Va Tech, WF, NC St.

ACC South:
Miami, FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, NC, Duke

I think you need to split up North Carolina and Duke. I know this wouldn't be ideal for wither school, but then again, they should be told to put football programs together. Even split up, they'll still play every couple of years.

bond007 · 10-12-2003, 08:28 AM

the reason they should... and will.. accept the ACC's invite is because there's a good chance that by 2005, the Big East loses it's BCS status.

The_Dude · 10-12-2003, 09:34 AM

i feel real sorry for big east now.

they got all their good teams taken out and have been lowered to the status of the non-bcs conferences like c-usa or mac.

RoadRage · 10-12-2003, 09:51 AM

The Big East will not be evicted from the BCS unless they bring in another conference to replace them.

Right now 62 teams out of 117 I-A football teams are in the BCS. Eject the Big East in 2005 and you have only 56, less than a majority. Without the majority, the BCS schools cannot stop the non-BCSers from forcing a playoff system and thus destroying the BCS's reason for existence.

djtestudo · 10-12-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bond007
this seems to be the most likely configuration...

ACC North:
BC, Maryland, Virginia, Va Tech, WF, NC St.

ACC South:
Miami, FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, NC, Duke

I dunno. I've been trying to figure this one out. The problem is, you have to split up the four NC teams, which is bad. I'd have perferred the ACC go after South Carolina and bring them back to the conference, or a rising school like USF. That way you could keep at least Duke, UNC, and NCST together, and put them in the north with Maryland, UVA and VTech.

My only other question is whether they'll use divisions for basketball, too. If so, you have to keep Duke, UNC, and Maryland together.

Oh well, it'll all be figured out in due course.

As for the Big East, let them whine and sue...while they steal Cincinnati, Louisville, and Marquette from C-USA.

djtestudo · 10-12-2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RoadRage
The Big East will not be evicted from the BCS unless they bring in another conference to replace them.

Right now 62 teams out of 117 I-A football teams are in the BCS. Eject the Big East in 2005 and you have only 56, less than a majority. Without the majority, the BCS schools cannot stop the non-BCSers from forcing a playoff system and thus destroying the BCS's reason for existence.

*cough*MAC*cough*

The MAC WILL be the destruction of the BCS.

The_Dude · 10-12-2003, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RoadRage
The Big East will not be evicted from the BCS unless they bring in another conference to replace them.

Right now 62 teams out of 117 I-A football teams are in the BCS. Eject the Big East in 2005 and you have only 56, less than a majority. Without the majority, the BCS schools cannot stop the non-BCSers from forcing a playoff system and thus destroying the BCS's reason for existence.

so what if the non-bcs teams implement a playoff system.

nobody is going to want to see Miami(OH) vs AirForce playing for a national championship.

djtestudo · 10-12-2003, 10:05 AM

His point is, without a majority of I-A schools, the BCS will be voted out of existance by the Non-BCS schools. Therefore, there would be a national playoff system. There may be a Miami(OH) vs. Air Force Championship game, but it would be after beating Oklahoma, FSU, etc.

RoadRage · 10-12-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
*cough*MAC*cough*

The MAC WILL be the destruction of the BCS.

… unless the MAC loses too many schools back to I-AA due to stricter attendence minimums (average 15K people in the stands, not tickets sold) that start August 2004.

If the standards at went into effect last year Ball State, Akron, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, and Kent State would have had to leave the MAC and return to I-AA; C-USA would have lost Houston, Mountain West would have lost Wyoming, WAC would have lost San Jose State, and Sun Belt would have lost Arkansas State, Middle Tennessee State, Idaho, Louisiana-Monroe, and future member Troy State.

Then again, the MAC could lose those five and still have 9, one over the minimum for a recognized conference. Mountain West would have to add someone, and the Sun Belt would be roadkill.

djtestudo · 10-12-2003, 04:08 PM

Notice how those are the bad MAC teams.

If the MAC isn't brought into the BCS for the next go-around, I think that it could end up destroying the NCAA. All the smaller schools would revolt and sue, and the NCAA would have no legal grounds for that kind of exclusion.

RoadRage · 10-12-2003, 11:07 PM

After getting several dull hours to rummage it in my mind at work, I figured out a way the BCS can dump the Big East and still maintain the majority.

1. ACC to 12 teams. They're already working on it.

2. Pac-10 picks up 2 new members to become the Pac-12. I'm sure BYU, Hawaii, Fresno State, Boise State, and UNLV have petitions to join already prepared "just in case".

3. Norte Dame is informed that they really should consider joining the Big Ten, so as to limit the possibility of the non-BCS schools using the "Norte Dame rule" as leverage in an potential lawsuit.

4. Vote for the quick removal of the schools who don't meet the new I-A standards after the 2004 season ends, so as to lower the number of non-BCS I-A schools.

These actions would ensure there are 60 BCS schools (excluding the Big East) out of 118 for 2004 (Florida A&M is I-A next year), and probably 110-115 for 2005. They won't litigate-proof the BCS though.

To litigate-proof they need closer to two-thirds of the I-A schools in the BCS. That's 78, maybe as low as 72 with the new standards, to keep the lawyers without major work. So they add a new member conference, then they ratchet up the standards until everyone either is "worthy of BCS standards" or is forced back to I-AA.

Question: How does the BCS manage to chunk one of the original conferences without a ton of litigation? Simple, use the "Big East Rule", which states:

Quote:

The automatic selection of the original BCS conference champions is subject to review and possible loss of automatic selection by the BCS should the conference champion not have an average ranking of 12 or higher over a four-year period.

As of right now, Boston College is the highest Big East remaining next year at #35 using BCS methodology. Last year, it was West Virginia at #16. For 2001, it was Syracuse at #13. For 2000, it's Pittsburgh at #39. Not only is that average above 12, but every year is too. The BCS thus has the legal means to expel the Big East.

Maybe BC should jump while they have the chance.

absorbentishe · 10-13-2003, 07:02 AM

So if BC goes to the ACC, the Big East will certainly have to look for more teams to join! My brother in law and I have talked about this, and we think that Marshall and Cincinatti would be asked to join, but they'd still need a team or two to join, and we could see UToledo, and Miami also joining, thus causing the MAC to seek other teams.

djtestudo · 10-13-2003, 07:34 AM

Nah, the Big East is already getting Cincinnati and Louisville in all sports, and Marquette and possibly DePaul in all but football, from C-USA. The MAC needs to stick together, so they can destroy the BCS

The_Dude · 10-13-2003, 10:01 AM

outta all these conferences, big 12 & the sec looks the most stable

RoadRage · 10-13-2003, 11:03 AM

It's no longer "if".

http://www.sportsline.com/general/story/6715523

Quote:

BC accepts ACC invitation to become 12th member

Oct. 12, 2003__

GREENSBORO, N.C. -- Boston College will join the Atlantic Coast Conference as its 12th member, guaranteeing the league a future football playoff game while landing another major television market.

The school had until Nov. 1 to accept the ACC's offer but agreed in less than four hours after ACC presidents and chancellors voted unanimously Sunday to include Boston College in the league's expansion plans.

"This just adds one more excellent school to what now will be a 12-member mix," ACC commissioner John Swofford said. "If you look at their graduation rates, BC will jump right into the higher echelon of our conference. They bring a lot on both fronts."

Big East bylaws require 27 months notice to leave that conference or face a reported $5 million exit fee. It's unclear if Boston College is willing to pay such a fine to join the ACC before 2006. Miami and Virginia Tech will begin ACC play next season.

"We are disappointed with the ACC's continued attack on the Big East Conference and in Boston College's decision to turn its back on its fellow members of the Big East," Pittsburgh AD Jeff Long said.

West Virginia deputy athletic director Mike Parsons was confident the Big East can regroup.

"The conference will be strong," he said. "It will come out of this thing. We'll have some rebuilding, but we'll come out of it."

The addition of Boston College will give the ACC the number of members required by the NCAA to stage a lucrative league championship football game.

Boston College's president said athletics, academics and finances were reasons for the jump from the Big East.

"The ACC is a strong, stable conference," The Rev. William Leahy said. "The move to the ACC will generate greater revenues in the future."

Sources told SportsLine.com's Gregg Doyel the decision to invite BC wasn't originally the unanimous agreement that was announced.

When ACC presidents and chancellors began their conference call Sunday at 9 a.m., North Carolina's James Moeser and N.C. State's Marye Anne Fox reiterated their opposition on grounds of geography and tradition. Within minutes, though, a straw vote on the matter showed the other seven ACC schools supporting Boston College. With expansion needing only a 7-2 vote to pass, that meant the opposition of UNC and N.C. State was futile.

For unity's sake, in the face of pending litigation accusing the ACC of conspiring with Miami to tear apart the Big East, Swofford then asked Moeser and Fox to officially vote in favor of Boston College. Moeser and Fox acquiesced, allowing Clemson president James Barker, chair of the Council of Presidents, to announce a "unanimous agreement" later Sunday.

Barely an hour after it began, the conference call that would complete the ACC, and again undercut the Big East, was finished.

Assuming Boston College joins Miami and Virginia Tech as former members, the Big East is expected to try to reestablish its presence in Florida by approaching South Florida or Central Florida, perhaps on a football-only membership.

Miami and Virginia Tech were added to the nine-team ACC in late June and will begin play in 2004.

In a statement, Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese said: "We are extremely disappointed with Boston College's decision to leave. Our membership is very surprised that the ACC presidents continue to come back into our league for membership."

Barker said it became apparent recently that an 11-team league was not ideal for the ACC.

"It's almost like a suit, you put it on and wear it for a while and then you decide it needs some alterations," Barker said. "In this case this was true. We began to envision ourselves in the summer as one-sized league and we felt an adjustment would be wise to position us for the future."

Boston College and Syracuse were the Big East schools in the ACC's original expansion plans -- along with Miami -- but were voted down in favor of adding the Hurricanes and Hokies. Duke, North Carolina and N.C. State voted against adding Boston College at the time.

But other pro-expansion schools in the ACC kept pushing for another member.

"Our position is we wanted to expand the league which we've done, expand the footprint," Florida State president T.K. Wetherell said. "We wanted those northeast markets and Boston gives us that opportunity."

ACC bylaws require campus visits of each school being considered for prospective membership. That requirement was satisfied before ACC presidents initially rejected Boston College for membership in June.

"They were one of the school's we targeted from the get-go," N.C. State football coach Chuck Amato said. "It's a big media market and they have a lot of good Italian food up there."

Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal threatened to sue Boston College if the school leaves the Big East.

Four Big East schools have already filed suit against the University of Miami for leaving the Big East to join the ACC. A Connecticut judge dropped the ACC as a defendant in that lawsuit on Friday.

"Our claim is that Boston College is part of a continued conspiracy to weaken and destroy the Big East as a competitor for broadcast revenue and other rights," Blumenthal said Sunday.

Is ACC expansion now over?

"We would never say never, but adding BC is clearly a completion of that phase," Barker said. "The expansion idea has moved to the back burner but it's not off the stove."

10-12-2003, 09:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i feel real sorry for big east now. they got all their good teams taken out and have been lowered to the status of the non-bcs conferences like c-usa or mac. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-12-2003, 09:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
RoadRage Stay off the sidewalk! Location: Oklahoma City, OK	The Big East will not be evicted from the BCS unless they bring in another conference to replace them. Right now 62 teams out of 117 I-A football teams are in the BCS. Eject the Big East in 2005 and you have only 56, less than a majority. Without the majority, the BCS schools cannot stop the non-BCSers from forcing a playoff system and thus destroying the BCS's reason for existence. __________________ Join TFP Team SETI 43K workunits complete, 34 members, more of each needed.

10-12-2003, 10:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	His point is, without a majority of I-A schools, the BCS will be voted out of existance by the Non-BCS schools. Therefore, there would be a national playoff system. There may be a Miami(OH) vs. Air Force Championship game, but it would be after beating Oklahoma, FSU, etc. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

10-12-2003, 04:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Notice how those are the bad MAC teams. If the MAC isn't brought into the BCS for the next go-around, I think that it could end up destroying the NCAA. All the smaller schools would revolt and sue, and the NCAA would have no legal grounds for that kind of exclusion. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

10-13-2003, 07:34 AM	#16 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Nah, the Big East is already getting Cincinnati and Louisville in all sports, and Marquette and possibly DePaul in all but football, from C-USA. The MAC needs to stick together, so they can destroy the BCS __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

10-12-2003, 07:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
bond007 Junkie Location: too far from Texas	this seems to be the most likely configuration... ACC North: BC, Maryland, Virginia, Va Tech, WF, NC St. ACC South: Miami, FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, NC, Duke

10-12-2003, 08:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
bond007 Junkie Location: too far from Texas	the reason they should... and will.. accept the ACC's invite is because there's a good chance that by 2005, the Big East loses it's BCS status.

10-13-2003, 07:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	So if BC goes to the ACC, the Big East will certainly have to look for more teams to join! My brother in law and I have talked about this, and we think that Marshall and Cincinatti would be asked to join, but they'd still need a team or two to join, and we could see UToledo, and Miami also joining, thus causing the MAC to seek other teams.

10-13-2003, 10:01 AM	#17 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	outta all these conferences, big 12 & the sec looks the most stable __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal